3.5 DM ?: NPC Gear Value

[Adept_Scholar]

I am in the process of crafting my first encounter for my PCs and came across Table 4-23 "NPC Gear Value" in the 3.5 D.M. Guide (pg. 127) and it got me thinking: is this really the value of gear/treasure of an NPC with an NPC class such as a commoner? If so, this would mean that a 12th-level commoner, for example, would have the same worth as a 12th-level wizard (27k)...:smallconfused: I thought about changing it around a bit, to say, aristocrats and experts have 25% less than this value, adepts and warriors 50% less, and commoners 75% less; yet, this still seems like it is too high...I suppose I could just take the level of the NPC class and roll its starting gear/gp value as many times as needed (e.g. 5d4 5 times for a 5th-level commoner) while using the table strictly for NPCs with PC classes...Advice & recommendations on this matter?

[Urpriest]

While it's not RAW, my suggestion is to use the CR for gear values, rather than the level. That way most NPCs will be one level lower, which is in general a better measure than 25% or the like since it scales along with typical wealth scaling and makes it easier to control party WBL.

That said, those gear values are for NPC combat encounters, to make sure the NPCs have the right numbers for their level. A 12th level commoner is window-dressing, they aren't a combat encounter.

[Yahzi]

A 12th level commoner is window-dressing
It's worse than that. Since technically they are an ECL 11 encounter, they are essentially free XP.

If your world has 12th level commoners, expect your players to take up mass murder as a career choice, since it is the easiest way to power.

Or you could just limit commoners to 3rd level or so, on the theory that anybody motivated enough to reach 12th level is smart enough to reach that level in a real class.

(Experts topping out at 5th makes sense too, for a lot of reasons (http://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/587/roleplaying-games/dd-calibrating-your-expectations-2))

[dascarletm]

It's worse than that. Since technically they are an ECL 11 encounter, they are essentially free XP.

If your world has 12th level commoners, expect your players to take up mass murder as a career choice, since it is the easiest way to power.

Or you could just limit commoners to 3rd level or so, on the theory that anybody motivated enough to reach 12th level is smart enough to reach that level in a real class.

(Experts topping out at 5th makes sense too, for a lot of reasons (http://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/587/roleplaying-games/dd-calibrating-your-expectations-2))

Ad-hoc xp. 0% challenge=0%XP.:smallwink:

[jedipilot24]

Player's Handbook II has some nifty equipment lists for most classes that can be used as is for NPCs and as a starting point for PC's.

[Adept_Scholar]

While it's not RAW, my suggestion is to use the CR for gear values, rather than the level.

So are you suggesting, say, a CR 4 encounter composed of 6 2nd-level hobgoblin warriors (a "very difficult" encounter to 4 1st-level PCs) have 550gp worth of gear each (3,300gp/6 as per Table 4-23 on pg. 127) or 900gp worth of gear each (a 2nd-level warrior being a CR 1)? :smallconfused:


Or you could just limit commoners to 3rd level or so, on the theory that anybody motivated enough to reach 12th level is smart enough to reach that level in a real class.

(Experts topping out at 5th makes sense too, for a lot of reasons)

This is a good point as I have rolled before during settlement creation and came up with a 16th-level commoner...:smallamused:


Ad-hoc xp. 0% challenge=0%XP.

Exactly. :smallwink:


Player's Handbook II has some nifty equipment lists for most classes that can be used as is for NPCs and as a starting point for PC's.

I am not familiar with the P.H. II, but I am looking to create my NPCs mostly from scratch.

[Urpriest]

So are you suggesting, say, a CR 4 encounter composed of 6 2nd-level hobgoblin warriors (a "very difficult" encounter to 4 1st-level PCs) have 550gp worth of gear each (3,300gp/6 as per Table 4-23 on pg. 127) or 900gp worth of gear each (a 2nd-level warrior being a CR 1)? :smallconfused:


The latter, 900gp each. To clarify, the group of hobgoblins are EL 4 (or 5 or 6), not CR 4. CR only applies to individual creatures, EL applies to encounters. This is relevant because things like XP and treasure are based on CR, not EL.

[yougi]

The latter, 900gp each. To clarify, the group of hobgoblins are EL 4 (or 5 or 6), not CR 4. CR only applies to individual creatures, EL applies to encounters. This is relevant because things like XP and treasure are based on CR, not EL.

In 3.5, that is. In PF, they call all of that CR.

[Urpriest]

In 3.5, that is. In PF, they call all of that CR.

Sure, but the OP is 3.5, not PF.

Just out of curiosity, does PF peg treasure and XP to encounter CR, or individual CR? (Well actually, PF has XP fixed for each creature like 4e, right?)

[yougi]

Sure, but the OP is 3.5, not PF.

Just out of curiosity, does PF peg treasure and XP to encounter CR, or individual CR? (Well actually, PF has XP fixed for each creature like 4e, right?)

Wow, I have to learn to read...

And PF has XP and treasure based on individuals, with XP being fixed like 4e.

[Adept_Scholar]

Table 4-1: Prices for Hireling Services on pg. 105 in the 3.5 D.M. Guide references a 2nd-level warrior (mercenary leader) as earning 6sp per day which amounts to just over 200gp yearly (before sp/gp taken out for food, lodging, etc.), so I am wondering at the big jump to 900gp worth of gear (I mean, if I were a mercenary with 900gp worth of equipment, I think I would certainly work for more than 6sp per day. :smalltongue:) However, I suppose much less than that would mean he would actually be easier than his given CR (and perhaps his gear could be supplied via his employer, no?). And while typically commoners would not be viable targets for PCs, if they came upon an evil society (or even an evil-aligned individual commoner), they could become targets of aggression/hostility at some point (at which time I don't see said commoner/s hauling around 900gp worth of gear/treasure). I suppose I could roll 5d4 for an evil-aligned commoner, for example an evil-aligned barkeep, if I think there's a chance the PCs might want to get hostile with him. I also wonder how much gear influences CR in relation to stats/abilities...:smallconfused: