What am I supposed to do? [Archive] - Page 3 - Giant in the Playground Forums

Trekkin

2013-03-29, 01:56 PM

Oh right I had forgotten to clarify something. The GMPC is not psychically linked to the GM in real life. That is a misinterpretation of how the system works. Reality 0001 (aka the real one) is presumably different from the actual real one, and the GM ended up being taken from it and then getting his mary sue powers, later he sent a clone of himself back to reality 0001 to continue his college education and hang out with friends and family. He has (apparently) psychic communication between his clones, but not the GMs real real life person, not that it makes too much of a difference.

Ah, see, as I'd had it described to me back when your campaign started and I was still his confidante, R1 is literally the Earth we all live in. Not a fictional version of it or anything; you're sitting in it now. Unless you're standing or walking or something, I suppose.

See, I presumed it was different as well, and was most vehemently corrected.

Regardless, that does explain how Thraxis' racial class can be 'Badass'...

EDIT: Did I not mention? For the longest time, I was, by virtue of my being outside the games he was running, one of his preferred audiences to hear what was 'really going on'. I rather wish I had paid more attention, now, but you can only hear so much about deflecting tank shells with katana before you tune it out.

llehctim

2013-03-29, 02:03 PM

Ah, see, as I'd had it described to me back when your campaign started and I was still his confidante, R1 is literally the Earth we all live in. Not a fictional version of it or anything; you're sitting in it now. Unless you're standing or walking or something, I suppose.

See, I presumed it was different as well, and was most vehemently corrected.

Regardless, that does explain how Thraxis' racial class can be 'Badass'...

EDIT: Did I not mention? For the longest time, I was, by virtue of my being outside the games he was running, one of his preferred audiences to hear what was 'really going on'. I rather wish I had paid more attention, now, but you can only hear so much about deflecting tank shells with katana before you tune it out.

I did pay attention to those rants, because it was a funny idea when it was just him and his friend alternating a 1DM 1player game with the two of them and not something I'ld ever actually have to deal with.
and I suspect that it is the real reality, but I vehemently object to that since reality clearly doesn't work like that, and I can use realities rules in reality.

PS: his racial class is not badass, he is one of the uber vampires from the manga THE RECORD OF FALLEN VAMPIRE, although i guess at lvl 30+ he might have levels in badass too.

For those of you that don't want to read it, the vampires at their best can't be killed by anything, immune to sunlight, its mildly annoying, can STOP TIME INDEFINITELY, etc. etc.
(I actually liked the manga as a manga, but it doesn't work as well in a game)

Geordnet

2013-03-29, 02:05 PM

I'm still poring over the pages and pages he sent me. This guy is verbose. One thing that does stand out, though, is how often he refers to this adventure not being world-changing, because we're playing relatively unimportant people with a small role to play in much bigger events and it's getting hard to ensure the plot continues as written.

Setting aside for a moment that we are there to witness Sephiroth Cullen, Samurai Ninja Psychic Vampire Lord of the Multiverse, come in and fix everything, how usual is it to have the players start off and stay relatively outside the larger plot? How would one tell that kind of story and not have the PCs doing what we're doing out of mourning the loss of player agency?
Um...

Ever ask the Chief Circle that if the players are unimportant, and that what they do isn't world-changing, why in the world does he even care what they do?!? :smallyuk:

I mean, if this Sue is so powerful, why does he need the PCs? In fact, wouldn't that make the PCs superior to him? :smallamused: Maybe suggest that if he (the Sue, I mean) is so Ueber, then he shouldn't feel so insecure about what the PCs (these insignificant specks according to him) do which may or may not "threaten" his plans. :smallsigh:

Anyways, I think what you should do is this:

Meet with the other players and pick someone to be a new DM. (At least temporarily.) Just ask here and I'm sure you can get pregened enemy stats or whatever you need to run a game with minimal effort, with this story you're bound to get several volunteers. (But even a game no prep done at all has got to be better than this living hell you've described.) :smalltongue:

Anyways, when the group gets together the new DM has the final say on everything. Which should be "yes" as much as possible, no matter how much it trashes things. Especially if it trashes things... :smallwink:

If/when Chief Circle tries to invoke the Sue, you guys pull the laughter card. When he tries to make rocks fall, the new DM says it has no effect on the players: the Sue's power was only ever an illusion. He can do absolutely nothing to those whom wholeheartedly refuse to go along with it. (This is 100% true in absolute terms: now that you as players refuse to go along with him as DM, he has no power whatsoever over your game.) :smallamused:

Trekkin

2013-03-29, 02:07 PM

PS: his racial class is not badass, he is one of the uber vampires from the manga THE RECORD OF FALLEN VAMPIRE, although i guess at lvl 30+ he might have levels in badass too.

30+? I was quoted a level in the mid-90s, last I asked, with at least one full twenty-level run of Badass. Some of his descriptions make it sound like a triple gestalt, though...

Regardless, I suppose it's not like we'll ever get a straight answer anyway.

Deffers

2013-03-29, 02:27 PM

...What? Level 90 in a d20 system?

Hell, screw it. Only games I ever get to lvl 90 in are video games, and even then generally only Disgaea since I don't play MMOs.

BTW, you said there are no trucks in this arcology. Are there golf carts?

Mr.D

2013-03-29, 02:29 PM

Trekkin

2013-03-29, 02:42 PM

Waitwaitwait.

So.

The guy sat across from you, DMing your game is a clone sent back in time by the Sue? He is a clone of his fictional self insert?

As near as I can understand, that is the closest translation of what is going on we can manage.

Unfortunately, the doublespeak to which he usually resorts becomes (2^n) speak where the limit of n as the conversation approaches the point is infinity; this close to the crux of the game universe, he will start talking and keep talking in nested caveats and continually redefined terms until he's simply emitting words without rhyme or reason.

If you'll imagine War and Peace translated into legal boilerplate by an ELIZA-style text parser, then preface every sentence with "basically", you have a good idea of the "short" answer to our questions.

So it's entirely possible that we've got this quite wrong, but as I understand it, yes.

Mr.D

2013-03-29, 02:45 PM

That is awesome. And by awesome I mean, y'know, terrifying.

jindra34

2013-03-29, 02:55 PM

That is awesome. And by awesome I mean, y'know, terrifying.

You forgot stupid. Brain killingly stupid on par with FATAL.

On players, plot and the game: The plot of the game is what they players are doing. Period, end discussion et cetera. There might be a Meta-plot of whats going on in the world, and the players might not affect it, but the plot itself is always about the players' characters.

maxriderules

2013-03-29, 02:56 PM

I think now is the time to change the game into paranoia. Refer to the hgher-ups as 'Friend Computer', backstab literally everyone at all times, and decide at random that your equipment explodes. Continue with this, pretty much entirely ignoring everything your DM says that isn't in agreement with you. Thus his ego-stroking becomes a farce, removing the entire point. Insane, suicidal, insanely convoluted attacks against random people for crazy and irrelevant reasons should be a standard tactic in your quest to kill someone important. Or unimportant.

Trekkin

2013-03-29, 03:04 PM

That is awesome. And by awesome I mean, y'know, terrifying.

It's an order of magnitude worse when we try getting it verbally, given his usual cadence. He is the very model of a modern Major-General. Unfortunately, he doesn't rhyme much unless he's handing us a paragraph-long prophecy, as he is so terribly wont to do. They are invariably awful poetry, and if he wants them to be mysterious they'll be written (yay!) and enciphered in a 'language' he created 'inspired by katakana and Arabic'.

Once, I suggested opening up the Homestuck verse, and I'm legitimately sorry for that. Not only for almost getting such a work enmeshed in this, but also because I wanted it as a handy way to travel through time.

Cue all of the above twice over to explain the rules by which time travel works.

Tanuki Tales

2013-03-29, 03:18 PM

If I make a suggestion: buy a dozen katanas. Stick three between the fingers of each hand, like wolverine. Attach two more to each of your elbows, knees and feet. Then start breakdancing.

Because that's about how serious this game is.

So basically Killer Bee from Naruto? :smalltongue:

I really need to catch up with this thread again.

Ashtagon

2013-03-29, 03:25 PM

I sincerely want to see this game published, so that FATAL gets knocked off its pedestal.

obryn

2013-03-29, 03:32 PM

I sincerely want to see this game published, so that FATAL gets knocked off its pedestal.
FATAL's where it is because it's misogynistic and juvenile. This would just be pathetic.

-O

Arbane

2013-03-29, 03:40 PM

For those of you that don't want to read it, the vampires at their best can't be killed by anything, immune to sunlight, its mildly annoying, can STOP TIME INDEFINITELY, etc. etc.

So... they're MORE munchkinesque than Dio Brando? :smalleek:

Um...

Ever ask the Chief Circle that if the players are unimportant, and that what they do isn't world-changing, why in the world does he even care what they do?!? :smallyuk:

I mean, if this Sue is so powerful, why does he need the PCs? In fact, wouldn't that make the PCs superior to him? :smallamused: Maybe suggest that if he (the Sue, I mean) is so Ueber, then he shouldn't feel so insecure about what the PCs (these insignificant specks according to him) do which may or may not "threaten" his plans. :smallsigh:

Yep. I've said it before, but going on strike still sounds like a good idea to me.

"Okay, if we're insignificant peons who are only here so you have an audience for the Divine Advent of Mary Sue, we fast-forward a few months. DO IT. Entertain us, dice-monkey."

Meet with the other players and pick someone to be a new DM. (At least temporarily.) Just ask here and I'm sure you can get pregened enemy stats or whatever you need to run a game with minimal effort, with this story you're bound to get several volunteers. (But even a game no prep done at all has got to be better than this living hell you've described.) :smalltongue:

Anyways, when the group gets together the new DM has the final say on everything. Which should be "yes" as much as possible, no matter how much it trashes things. Especially if it trashes things... :smallwink:

If/when Chief Circle tries to invoke the Sue, you guys pull the laughter card. When he tries to make rocks fall, the new DM says it has no effect on the players: the Sue's power was only ever an illusion. He can do absolutely nothing to those whom wholeheartedly refuse to go along with it. (This is 100% true in absolute terms: now that you as players refuse to go along with him as DM, he has no power whatsoever over your game.) :smallamused:

This also sounds like a good plan. Hijack the game and fly it to Miami.

Once, I suggested opening up the Homestuck verse, and I'm legitimately sorry for that. Not only for almost getting such a work enmeshed in this, but also because I wanted it as a handy way to travel through time.

Cue all of the above twice over to explain the rules by which time travel works.

Pity, really. That has several ways to end the universe, putting ALL of you out of your misery. :smallbiggrin:

Edit: Also, given the way you're sent him into a fear-frenzy with Chemistry, Alchemizing would probably put him in a coma. (But I'm sure there'd be a downside, too.)

I sincerely want to see this game published, so that FATAL gets knocked off its pedestal.

To be much fairer than this GM deserves, I haven't heard any evidence (yet) that he's a raving autistic misogynist (with a "+1d6 = REALISM!" fetish) like the alleged people who wrote FATAL. And his only racism seems to be his "Japan is T3H UB3R!" obsession.

HE may fail completely as both a GM and a human being, but his game sounds like just Yet Another Fantasy Heartbreaker which, in the unlikely event it ever got published, will sink like a stone.

So Trekkin, try to get him to publish his _sourcebook_ first. That should be pure comedy gold.

comicshorse

2013-03-29, 04:05 PM

Trekkin

2013-03-29, 04:07 PM

To be much fairer than this GM deserves, I haven't heard any evidence (yet) that he's a raving autistic misogynist (with a "+1d6 = REALISM!" fetish) like the alleged people who wrote FATAL. And his only racism seems to be his "Japan is T3H UB3R!" obsession.

So Trekkin, try to get him to publish his _sourcebook_ first. That should be pure comedy gold.

I've been avoiding mention of the lackadaisical, presumptive, "i'm-not-a-racist-but" racism that peppers his thinking. I'm not qualified to comment on it. Likewise his oh-so-"informed" opinions on gender issues. One could be forgiven for mistaking him for Mayonnaise Quirke, really. EDIT: Or others, but I would rather not use real-world examples.

It has not had quantifiable, overt mechanical representation, though. Not yet.

EDIT: I'm still not forgiving him for any of it. Ever. Just...if that was unclear. But it won't show up in the books in a very reviewable way.

Gavinfoxx

2013-03-29, 05:32 PM

Wait, so you have been sugar coating his actions??

This has to stop, now.

Please come clean with how he has been acting.

Trekkin

2013-03-29, 05:55 PM

Wait, so you have been sugar coating his actions??

This has to stop, now.

Please come clean with how he has been acting.

Would that I could, but as I said, I'm not who you want to be asking about racism or sexism.

I haven't been sugar coating or minimizing anything. I have been outright avoiding things I'm definitionally unable to understand, in the absence of empirical evidence. I've never seen him interact with anyone of a different race or gender than himself in more than a casual way, and for me to go into what all he's said about them would be to leave out so much as to be offensive, I'm sure, simply because I'm not aware of it enough to remember it.

I don't want to do that. I've been told repeatedly very, very emphatically not to do that.

Please do not make me do that.

This is not an attempt to cover for him, minimize his wrongness or do anything even remotely related to making him sound good. This is me acknowledging that I do not know and can not learn how to analyze it at all, let alone summarize, and communicate it accurately in a form brief enough to fit this format.

EDIT: Honestly it would probably be best if I just stopped posting now.

Deffers

2013-03-29, 06:43 PM

Once, I suggested opening up the Homestuck verse, and I'm legitimately sorry for that. Not only for almost getting such a work enmeshed in this, but also because I wanted it as a handy way to travel through time.

Shoot Snowman in the face.

Ta da!

llehctim

2013-03-29, 06:48 PM

I am personally terrible at recognizing when people are being racist, especially since I try to overlook flaws in my friends, since I know I have plenty of flaws and wouldn't want to be bothered about them all the time, but the GM does tend to have very strong opinions on things, so while it is conceivable that he might be, I haven't seen it notably effect the game, and I rather doubt that he would express too many negative view on women around me, since I have quite a few females in my family who are quite intelligent and strong enough to do any physical task they set their minds to.

Grim Portent

2013-03-29, 07:52 PM

Now what started as me disliking this GM for his terrible GMing style and absolute lack of scientific understanding has I have to say grown to be a lot more... venomous shall we say.

I'm kinda put out that the only biological doomsday device concept I had can't work in the setting even without crazy retcons.

Bah, I'll just throw my hat in with those who say you should just act sporadically and unpredictably and spread mayhem. Mayhem always works. If he has to choose between letting the PCs disrupt the game and killing them by fiat then he loses no matter what he does.

Feddlefew

2013-03-29, 08:22 PM

Sith_Happens

2013-03-29, 10:37 PM

I have determined that I am going to (try) make a new character, the basic idea of which is I am going to be a melee combatant class that's tough as nails and try to get the badass racial class (yes thats a thing in this system). The character is going to be female, and be basically a combination of kamina from gurren lagen and a war-hammer commissar in personality. Believing in humanity in general, and their ability to make choices and fight for themselves, and for trying to fix cowards (similar to V from vendetta, but not nearly as subtle).

Presumably the character at some point was in some sort of military profession before, but was kicked out/imprisoned when she kicked the snot out of some of her comrades for running from a battle. Presumably after a while of imprisonment/whatever this version of CT does to people they deem maladjusted and insane, she gets freed by Cael. Thus having a tie in to the campaign as he can call in "an old friend" to help, and lets me avoid being directly connected to the bureaucratic mess that is blackspire.

I have also determined that I can roleplay the character fairly well already so it would be fun to play and have all sorts of fun opportunities to mess with things if i want. And I get to take a break from failing at research/magic/making magic items etc.

But one thing I cant quite think of is a good name for the character, those are always the hardest part for me. Does anyone have any cool names for a character like this?

Yeah, I think there's a huge problem with this character concept that you're forgetting about: It's designed to be both cool and competent. As a PC in this game, it is allowed to be neither. All coolness and competence must be held securely in the hands of

Sephiroth Cullen, Samurai Ninja Psychic Vampire Lord of the Multiverse
lest his ascension be incomplete. I say with complete certainty that if you bring FemKamina into this campaign, she will either die within the session or be broken into a bumbling caricature of herself. Either way, there will be tentacled horrors with unbeatable grapple checks involved.

llehctim

2013-03-29, 11:37 PM

The character concept was approved, and there was no implication that women were in any way inferior, and the stats I rolled were pretty good (much better than my typical rolls, usually I get~2 rerolls of my stats on 4d6 drop the lowest, because the net modifier is negative)
I will see tommorow if the classes involved get nerfed, since he did say he was still working on the paladin class, and badass was being reworked apparently, but paladin of freedom that is slightly(read very) crazy is a Go so far.

Deffers

2013-03-29, 11:43 PM

Sith_Happens

2013-03-30, 12:01 AM

and there was no implication that women were in any way inferior,

"Of course not. It's not like it's their fault that horrid eldritch abominations have a thing for them."

I will see tommorow if the classes involved get nerfed, since he did say he was still working on the paladin class, and badass was being reworked apparently, but paladin of freedom that is slightly(read very) crazy is a Go so far.

Based on the pattern so far, the nerfs will occur immediately after the first time you end up being good at something.

...I wonder what "The Bride" translates to in Japanese.

"Buraido." Not exactly subtle.:smalltongue:

Personally, I nominate Fate (no last name) as this character's name. Yes, I just watched Nanoha last night, why do you ask?

Tanuki Tales

2013-03-30, 01:33 AM

Ok.

I'm going to suggest something that I'm pretty sure no one else has suggested yet:

Ignore his authority. Ignore that he's the GM/DM and just do what you want. Do not play into his power fantasy and as a group just treat him like the potted plant that honestly has more societal value then him.

He says you don't get to roll? You roll anyway.

He says it doesn't work that way or it doesn't exist? You say it does work that way, it does exist and keep playing under that assumption.

The Ao-Sue retcons things so you don't succeed? Nope, that never happened. I still succeeded. What's next?

Completely cut him out of the equation as an arbitrator of any fashion and act like you have equal authority and power as a GM/DM. Get the entire group to do this.

Nothing and I mean nothing will burn his game to the ground harder or faster than completely breaking the contract between player and GM into bite sized pieces. Stop being polite and stop treating him like a friend or equal. Destroy him.

Edit:

May I also suggest a name for this horrific fiasco?

"The Tragedy of Trekkin

or

How I learned to make Henderson blend coffee"

llehctim

2013-03-30, 02:11 AM

Ok.

I'm going to suggest something that I'm pretty sure no one else has suggested yet:

Ignore his authority. Ignore that he's the GM/DM and just do what you want. Do not play into his power fantasy and as a group just treat him like the potted plant that honestly has more societal value then him.

He says you don't get to roll? You roll anyway.

He says it doesn't work that way or it doesn't exist? You say it does work that way, it does exist and keep playing under that assumption.

The Ao-Sue retcons things so you don't succeed? Nope, that never happened. I still succeeded. What's next?

Completely cut him out of the equation as an arbitrator of any fashion and act like you have equal authority and power as a GM/DM. Get the entire group to do this.

Nothing and I mean nothing will burn his game to the ground harder or faster than completely breaking the contract between player and GM into bite sized pieces. Stop being polite and stop treating him like a friend or equal. Destroy him.

This may become a thing my character may do if it seems fitting to me, the even if the situation seems impossible human determination will make it possible with enough effort, since there are many cases of humans doing more than was reasonable for someone in their position going above and beyond the normal maximum in a desperate situate (aka more spiral power).

Ashtagon

2013-03-30, 03:07 AM

AuraTwilight

2013-03-30, 03:09 AM

Ashtagon

2013-03-30, 03:15 AM

I will now suggest christening this character The Bride of Henderson. Yunno, for luck.

...I wonder what "The Bride" translates to in Japanese. Because he might just think it's a reference to Kill Bill and instantly rule the character wins at everything.

Bride of Henderson?

Henderson is, etymologically speaking, "son of Henry" (Hender is a corruption of Henry). And Henry is, etymologically, "home ruler".

So, putting it together, Uchiōko Yomena (家王子·嫁菜)

Yomena is technically a genus of flower, just in case he asks :smallwink:

The Glyphstone

2013-03-30, 07:54 AM

Based on the pattern so far, the nerfs will occur immediately after the first time you end up being good at something.

Only to our non-psychic perceptions - the nerfs will occur before the character is made, retroactively, and have always been that way to ensure the triggering event (him being good at something) doesn't actually take place.

Tanuki Tales

2013-03-30, 11:03 AM

A few people, me being one of them, suggested this about half the thread ago.

Sorry, I must have lost it under everything.

I saw a lot of "leave the table" and "destroy his game by finding ways to make him shoot himself in the foot", but I don't remember seeing suggestions of not even playing under the covenant of a player under a GM.

Eldan

2013-03-30, 12:24 PM

That would be an interesting idea. Go medieval on him. Install a counter-GM.

Deffers

2013-03-30, 12:26 PM

Bride of Henderson?

Henderson is, etymologically speaking, "son of Henry" (Hender is a corruption of Henry). And Henry is, etymologically, "home ruler".

So, putting it together, Uchiōko Yomena (家王子·嫁菜)

Yomena is technically a genus of flower, just in case he asks :smallwink:

That's actually a badass name. My vote goes to that!

Kalmageddon

2013-03-30, 03:23 PM

Ok, time out.

I'm calling it.
This HAS to be fake.

There is not a chance in hell that a person can be as obnoxious, ignorant, frustrating and arrogant as this DM is described to be and still come off as a normal person in everyday life.
And there are no people that are patient or desperate enough to want to play with him, literally anything would be better than playing the campaign you are describing, I had invasive surgery more pleasant then this campaign seems to be, I don't even know if this guy exists and I still feel the need to shout at his face what I think of him until he curls up in a little ball and escapes into his little world where he's a physical god and everyone thinks he's super kewl. :smallfurious:

Come on, admit it so I can sleep again at night. :smallannoyed:

(Ok, seriously, maybe this story is real, but HOW can you be able to even be in the same room with this guy without wanting to punch his soul?! :smalleek:)

Trekkin

2013-03-30, 03:53 PM

Ok, time out.

I'm calling it.
This HAS to be fake.

Please don't call me a liar. Especially not once I've been asked what I've been asked on here, and I've responded to the best of my ability.

Incidentally, he's gotten to flat-out refusing to accept character actions now.

Bovine Colonel

2013-03-30, 03:59 PM

Incidentally, he's gotten to flat-out refusing to accept character actions now.

...

Do please elaborate.

Arbane

2013-03-30, 04:06 PM

Your GM makes me long for the good old days, when people who held contra-factual opinions were removed from society by getting eaten by saber-toothed tigers. Sadly, stupidity is no longer sufficiently painful. :smallannoyed:

Incidentally, he's gotten to flat-out refusing to accept character actions now.

Seriously?

Any actions, or just ones that would 'derail the plot'?

Either way, tell him to go write his bad manga fanfic alone like he obviously wants to and let you guys play an actual RPG in peace.

Tanuki Tales

2013-03-30, 04:09 PM

Seriously?

Any actions, or just ones that would 'derail the plot'?

Yes, please elaborate this.

Trekkin

2013-03-30, 04:15 PM

Yes, please elaborate this.

I will, once it's done happening. He's being verbose again.

llehctim

2013-03-30, 04:21 PM

Your GM makes me long for the good old days, when people who held contra-factual opinions were removed from society by getting eaten by saber-toothed tigers. Sadly, stupidity is no longer sufficiently painful. :smallannoyed:

Seriously?

Any actions, or just ones that would 'derail the plot'?

Either way, tell him to go write his bad manga fanfic alone like he obviously wants to and let you guys play an actual RPG in peace.

Actions that derail the plot ie not setting up a trap for the cult that will bring the hammer down on us and hoping we will survive.

also
"Ok just to clarify there appears to be a bit of a miscommunication on the plot/playstyle of this game in general:
This game is not designed as the typical RPG, where the PCs are the focal point or heroes of the story, we are merely pawns or a subbranch of the supergovernment fufilling a task of allying however temporariliy the sub-brance and the goodguy cult, presumably so that alliance is significant in the future.
However I will admit that none of us can really read minds, so if anyone else thinks my view of it is incorrect feel free to mention that."

Was something I asked the group, and the GM has confirmed that it is correct, and that we are too low level to make world changing decisions, but that we were still kind of heroes for doing this (I assume in the same way farmers in a war should be considered heroes since they forgo personal glory to make sure people get fed).
I am still waiting to hear what the other players think the game should be.

Deffers

2013-03-30, 04:28 PM

Llehctim, what did you think of the name suggestion given? Yunno, for the new character you're making? Or is it too late.

Tanuki Tales

2013-03-30, 04:53 PM

Actions that derail the plot ie not setting up a trap for the cult that will bring the hammer down on us and hoping we will survive.

also
"Ok just to clarify there appears to be a bit of a miscommunication on the plot/playstyle of this game in general:
This game is not designed as the typical RPG, where the PCs are the focal point or heroes of the story, we are merely pawns or a subbranch of the supergovernment fufilling a task of allying however temporariliy the sub-brance and the goodguy cult, presumably so that alliance is significant in the future.
However I will admit that none of us can really read minds, so if anyone else thinks my view of it is incorrect feel free to mention that."

Was something I asked the group, and the GM has confirmed that it is correct, and that we are too low level to make world changing decisions, but that we were still kind of heroes for doing this (I assume in the same way farmers in a war should be considered heroes since they forgo personal glory to make sure people get fed).
I am still waiting to hear what the other players think the game should be.

Where is the fun in all of this again?

And I mean the actual game, not the fun you've already told us that you guys have by hanging out and goofing off out of and in the game.

Sith_Happens

2013-03-30, 05:28 PM

This may become a thing my character may do if it seems fitting to me, the even if the situation seems impossible human determination will make it possible with enough effort, since there are many cases of humans doing more than was reasonable for someone in their position going above and beyond the normal maximum in a desperate situate (aka more spiral power).

"That doesn't work/you can't do that because [X, Y, and Z reasons]."
"I do it anyways."
"Uh, I thought I explained that–"
"*power-up scream*"

Bride of Henderson?

Henderson is, etymologically speaking, "son of Henry" (Hender is a corruption of Henry). And Henry is, etymologically, "home ruler".

So, putting it together, Uchiōko Yomena (家王子·嫁菜)

Yomena is technically a genus of flower, just in case he asks :smallwink:

I don't know, something actually Japanese will probably come off as intentionally trying to appeal to him. Which would probably work in llehctim's favor, but might also arouse suspicion.

llehctim

2013-03-30, 05:45 PM

Llehctim, what did you think of the name suggestion given? Yunno, for the new character you're making? Or is it too late.

I was considering the suggested name, but I don't really feel it would make sense for my character to play to the Japanese culture any more than the setting already does, my theory is someone who goes against the grain should stand out when compared to the masses around them, however in the interest of still making a comical name, I figure I should go with Seraphina Palladino, which both works as an italian american name and makes it more or less obvious to anyone with a shred of genre savy what my character is, but not in what way.
(Also really I am not making the character with the objective of ruining the campaign, just to have the option to go down that road if needed, however I am hesitant to do so since last time I did so I felt incredibly guilty for quite a long time and I want to see if I can try to make the campaign more amusing/bearable for the other players if I can.)

EDIT:
"I don't know, something actually Japanese will probably come off as intentionally trying to appeal to him. Which would probably work in llehctim's favor, but might also arouse suspicion."
Now that I think about it this probably was part of the consideration for the same logic that I wouldn't use a scottish name.

Trekkin

2013-03-30, 06:34 PM

Now that I think about it this probably was part of the consideration for the same logic that I wouldn't use a scottish name.

Perhaps I should explain. I tend to draw character ideas from Scottish and Irish myth and history perhaps more than I should, so I suggested some variation on either Alasdair MacColla or Grace O'Malley a while ago.

Now, as to the character actions being denied: Apparently when a very obvious trap rears its ugly head, I am not allowed to avoid meeting with the person setting up the trap, because "clearly you're distraught right now so I'm going to wait on accepting that decision given all the planning you've done."

stupiddDice

2013-03-30, 06:40 PM

My god, he's getting worse.

One day you are all going to be late to a session to just find him talking to himself, enacting the plot even though the player's are not even there.

Kalmageddon

2013-03-30, 06:40 PM

Please don't call me a liar. Especially not once I've been asked what I've been asked on here, and I've responded to the best of my ability.

Incidentally, he's gotten to flat-out refusing to accept character actions now.

I thought it was pretty clear that I was joking. :smallwink:

Tanuki Tales

2013-03-30, 06:59 PM

Feddlefew

2013-03-30, 07:22 PM

Alternatively to my suggested "Run a Counter GM(s)" idea, how about having all your characters sit down and play a different table top game in character with one of your characters being the new GM? That way you can do something fun and completely ignore anything your current "GM" is trying have relevantly happen in game.

(I'm pretty sure that one was suggested, but an Inception game is worth suggesting again).

I suggested something like that earlier, but with the new GM's character being a benevolent eldrich entity that's slowly eroding the game word and replacing it with one of its own devising, using a different (playtested) gaming system. Bonus points if the new system isn't D20 based.

JoshuaZ

2013-03-30, 07:36 PM

Actions that derail the plot ie not setting up a trap for the cult that will bring the hammer down on us and hoping we will survive.

also
"Ok just to clarify there appears to be a bit of a miscommunication on the plot/playstyle of this game in general:
This game is not designed as the typical RPG, where the PCs are the focal point or heroes of the story, we are merely pawns or a subbranch of the supergovernment fufilling a task of allying however temporariliy the sub-brance and the goodguy cult, presumably so that alliance is significant in the future.
However I will admit that none of us can really read minds, so if anyone else thinks my view of it is incorrect feel free to mention that."

Was something I asked the group, and the GM has confirmed that it is correct, and that we are too low level to make world changing decisions, but that we were still kind of heroes for doing this (I assume in the same way farmers in a war should be considered heroes since they forgo personal glory to make sure people get fed).
I am still waiting to hear what the other players think the game should be.

So it can actually be fun to play a game where you are little guys and aren't likely to make large scale impacts, especially if the setting is just very large. But, if one does end up doing something that would have an impact anyways, then it should still have that impact. So this is still a bad way to run that sort of game also.

Trekkin

2013-03-30, 07:38 PM

I thought it was pretty clear that I was joking. :smallwink:

...which, in retrospect, it is.

Carry on then, and my apologies for the misunderstanding; I'm in kind of a weird headspace right now.

At any rate, we finally have an objective! And it makes a certain amount of sense!

We're using our plot trinket to lure the dhohanoids into a meeting under the pretense of selling it to them, although they don't know it's us that has it and we don't know they're the bad guys necessarily.
So we have about a day
to get into the warehouse we don't own
to set up traps we don't have
(using materials that we know won't restrain them)
to catch people we don't know actually exist
for interrogation in a facility that can't hold them
in cooperation with allies who are almost convinced we're traitorous scum out to kill them all.

jindra34

2013-03-30, 07:41 PM

How much of that is reading between lines from what he told you? Oh and given everything they might be interrogated by people who are working with them.

Trekkin

2013-03-30, 07:46 PM

How much of that is reading between lines from what he told you? Oh and given everything they might be interrogated by people who are working with them.

That's all exactly what he told me, albeit summarized. Specifically:

1. Buying or otherwise taking an active role in clearing the warehouse would be too obvious.
2. Sensors and military hardware are going through the bureaucracy now, and should be out a day after we need them.
3. See my Kevlar woes. Apparently it is very easily cut.
4. This one's complicated, but we have no way of tracing the email we received containing the offer. It's been anonymized, you see. We've also been warned that attempting to glean any information from our contact will only bring our enemies out in force.
5. We've been told explicitly that they have no idea how to handle dhohanoids, and yes, we are going to have to hand them over to departments that 'might' be infiltrated.
6. Our Tager 'friends' are apparently extremely concerned to almost actively hostile now.

Can you see why this is something I wanted to back out of?

jindra34

2013-03-30, 07:49 PM

Yes, yes I can see why you would want to get out of it. And I'd say there is a 99% chance nothing will go right. So maybe see how much they want for the aritfact and then decide if its enough to flee and go into hiding with.

Trekkin

2013-03-30, 07:53 PM

Deffers

2013-03-30, 08:13 PM

Then fill the boxes with Henderson blend coffee, and make a mannequin of yourself. Wait until they're inside and set the coffee off.

Trekkin

2013-03-30, 08:24 PM

Then fill the boxes with Henderson blend coffee, and make a mannequin of yourself. Wait until they're inside and set the coffee off.

I might be able to swing that. I have to time my asking about my stocks right to get more than a pittance.

Incidentally, folks, as we plan, we're learning even more about the setting. Apparently Cthulhutech has quantum computers -- real, functioning, efficient quantum computers -- and still uses factoring-based encryption schemes.

I bring up Shor's algorithm, and how that doesn't really work, at least for preventing the collapse of global financial markets overnight.

"And apparently that did not happen." No other explanation given, just 2 + 2 = NO.

I think he's breaking down.

The same is true for, say, everyone using radio-wireless at ludicrously high bandwidth and the bandwidth crunch going totally away--and the physical location of a given transmitter being utterly untrackable "because they've anonymized it".

Big Fau

2013-03-30, 08:42 PM

llehctim

2013-03-30, 08:46 PM

I am getting the sneaking suspicion that the GM didn't really want to play a scifi setting, and would have preferred a fantasy setting, but he had let us choose the criteria of the setting. Iirc the criteria was 1.futuristic, 2.I wanted some magic, for some character concept that ended up not happening, but not too much and 3.Something about a Russian mafia?
So I suspect alot of this now that I'm actively observing, has to do with him not wanting to deal with the science of it and wanting to play a fantasy game with some scifi elements.

http://lesswrong.com/lw/3k/how_to_not_lose_an_argument/
Also I showed him the how to not lose an argument link, and sadly while it benefited me to read it and hopefully Trekkin, he said that it doesn't help him too much since he only tries to WIN if someone refuses to acknowledge a point, and in Debates he uses the tactic described. I suppose that might be true, but really the tactic is less necessary in debates to my knowledge, and more relevant when someone refuses to acknowledge something (aka a conflict, aka a problem).

I mean honestly he really isn't too bad, but I think he really does not like doing extra work on scientific principle during a game, and the stress of senior year is kindof getting to all of us.

Trekkin

2013-03-30, 09:09 PM

I am getting the sneaking suspicion that the GM didn't really want to play a scifi setting, and would have preferred a fantasy setting, but he had let us choose the criteria of the setting.

This is very likely. The first order of business for the campaign running concurrently with this one was to literally exile the party to a fantasy setting, with all the Schizo Tech you can imagine.

When one of them was built around energy weapons.

Mind, they had dozens of engineers exiled alongside them...none of whom remembered enough materials science to do basic chemistry, or physics.

And everyone who envisioned revisions to the llehctim's character's competency was right. The 'Badass' racial class is being 'revised'.

Last time I heard that, I was handed a sorcerer progression with two spells of each level per day by level 20 (and six spells known, total, and no metamagic) and told it was 'balanced' now.

llehctim

2013-03-30, 09:14 PM

This is very likely. The first order of business for the campaign running concurrently with this one was to literally exile the party to a fantasy setting, with all the Schizo Tech you can imagine.

When one of them was built around energy weapons.

Mind, they had dozens of engineers exiled alongside them...none of whom remembered enough materials science to do basic chemistry, or physics.

Because PURPLE"Why would they bother learning to make the less effective stuff when they could just type it in a fabricator and get what they need"

The clear solution to this is to go into seclusion for the next month or so doing nothing but schoolwork, or perhaps I am just cranky.

jindra34

2013-03-30, 09:14 PM

Still a bad choice to the run it in the near future as opposed to the far future (where everything we know is as archaic to them as the abacus is to us, there by granting [hopeful] sufficient fudge room) so its not really an excuse for whats going on. Or just sit down and discuss with you guys. Then again I'm not sure how well a discussion would go...

llehctim

2013-03-30, 09:28 PM

Sith_Happens

2013-03-30, 10:23 PM

You know something, he may want you to give the artifact over to the dhohanoids. He may be trying to set up a Big Damn Heroes moment with the Marty Stu.

At the very least, intentionally selling the item will force him to either TPK or Deus Ex Machina, and in either case you are free to walk away afterwards.

Wait, is this the amulet from Trekkin's other thread?

Also,

2. Sensors and military hardware are going through the bureaucracy now, and should be out a day after we need them.

Have you ever thought of requisitioning something as soon as you think you might need it, then planning around when you'll actually have them? ("There's been a delay.")

Trekkin

2013-03-30, 11:19 PM

Wait, is this the amulet from Trekkin's other thread?

Have you ever thought of requisitioning something as soon as you think you might need it, then planning around when you'll actually have them? ("There's been a delay.")

It purports to be. It's changed so much it may as well not be, though.

And yes, we have. We need to provide a specific reason for whatever we want.

Sith_Happens

2013-03-30, 11:29 PM

And yes, we have. We need to provide a specific reason for whatever we want.

I assumed that was the case, the trick is to not have set in stone yet when you'll be needing to do the thing that's the reason for wanting the stuff.

Arbane

2013-03-30, 11:44 PM

This is very likely. The first order of business for the campaign running concurrently with this one was to literally exile the party to a fantasy setting, with all the Schizo Tech you can imagine.

Wait, wait... there's ANOTHER group this bozo is inflicting himself on?

Please, get some of them over here, so we can drink their delicious tear- I mean, so we can hear their point of view. Yeah. Yeah, that's what I meant. :smallwink:

Last time I heard that, I was handed a sorcerer progression with two spells of each level per day by level 20 (and six spells known, total, and no metamagic) and told it was 'balanced' now.

Balanced with what? Commoners?

The clear solution to this is to go into seclusion for the next month or so doing nothing but schoolwork, or perhaps I am just cranky.

Some folks in this thread HAVE been saying to drop this game like it's radioactive. Just sayin'.

So we have about a day
to get into the warehouse we don't own
to set up traps we don't have
(using materials that we know won't restrain them)
to catch people we don't know actually exist
for interrogation in a facility that can't hold them
in cooperation with allies who are almost convinced we're traitorous scum out to kill them all.

....are you SURE you're not playing Paranoia? All you guys need are some red jumpsuits...

Wait, any chance you could convince some Tagers to come along with you to the obvious trap? ("Nope.")

llehctim

2013-03-31, 12:07 AM

Wait, wait... there's ANOTHER group this bozo is inflicting himself on?

Please, get some of them over here, so we can drink their delicious tear- I mean, so we can hear their point of view. Yeah. Yeah, that's what I meant. :smallwink:

I vaguely recall mentioning that I was in another game, along with the sniper in the cthulutech group (just the two of us) and Im mostly just halfassing it, because I don't like conflict. And after the first game the other player was in, where the DM more or less treated most of his players like they weren't important and had a few key characters he catered too, I figured I may as well stay in to let him be the hero of a story for once and enjoy that aspect of an RPG. The first campaign he was in was the campaign where in a state of stress I more or less suicide bombed another character that I hated (with valid in character reasons), and I consider myself to be a fairly reasonable person.
That game was actually going pretty ok, but then again I was playing a character at the time who couldn't care less about the plot so long as there was blood to spill (paladin of khorne, metamorph assasain (think alex mercer, but alot weaker)). sadly that character was kicked out of the party for being too evil, ^.^. Then I made another character with the purpose of supporting his character, since he has the same workload that I do so I figure if he can de-stress by being a hero, then its worth a bit of my time.
It typically takes the other party members being distressed for me to actually consider the game inconvenient, this has begun happening ... joy.

EDIT: Clearly I have the worst psychic power ever: Empathy. I am trying to find a solution to this problem that makes everyone happy, the situation seems bleak.

Gavinfoxx

2013-03-31, 12:12 AM

llehctim

2013-03-31, 12:52 AM

Right. You want to make everyone except insane DM happy. That's what you want to do. Make the sane, reasonable people happy... Everyone except the insane one, yea?

And Empathy isn't your problem, man. It's lack of setting reasonable boundaries for yourself.

I Ideally want to make the GM happy as well, he isn't really insane, but he is quite stressed and paranoid, hell for all I know he's holding a bit of a grudge from the deadlands campaign.

As for the second part that's probably a good point, but really if this ends in conflict noone really benefits, I plan to at some point figure out what each person wants from the game and see if I can convince the GM to allow some leeway for that.

Gavinfoxx

2013-03-31, 01:28 AM

No... he actually is insane. He thinks he has psychic powers and he sounds like a paranoid sociopath, AS WELL AS the asperger's... He has serious issues. Stop defending him, "Oh he isn't really insane" and look at the descriptions of how he has been acting.

Deffers

2013-03-31, 01:33 AM

Sith_Happens

2013-03-31, 01:49 AM

TuggyNE

2013-03-31, 01:51 AM

On the bright side, you're making a lot of people on the Internet happy by detailing the horrors to which you're being subjected.:smallwink:

4th-level Enchantment spell, Distribute Schadenfreude.

:smalltongue:

llehctim

2013-03-31, 01:57 AM

Gonna sadly say that Gavinfoxx is slapping you with the truthy hammer here.

Yes, he's slapping you with a hammer. That's how truthy he's being.

DM's a friggin' NUTCASE. And you're NOT going to make him and the others happy at the same time. You seem to be a super nice guy, Llehctim, but this is just one you can't win.

I might not be able to win, but if I didn't at least try, I would constantly think that I could have possibly prevented the unhappiness of my friends. Since I have actually been in two campaigns before where I did nothing and for one of them I know i couldn't have made much of a difference in, but for the other I really liked the game, but got caught up in it and even contributed towards interparty conflict since I was used to it, and didn't notice the party meltdown till it was too late.

Edit:Clearly at some point when I have more time, I'll probably make a thread on the campaign I left unpleasantly. I would have posted a campaign journal for the other one which was and epic deadlands adventure, but I lost my 50 page long campaign journal document T.T due to a computer crash :smallfrown:

Lord Torath

2013-03-31, 08:35 AM

The same is true for, say, everyone using radio-wireless at ludicrously high bandwidth and the bandwidth crunch going totally away--and the physical location of a given transmitter being utterly untrackable "because they've anonymized it".
Has he never heard of triangulation? Even a basic receiver should be able to give you a direction, I don't care how they've encrypted the signal. Because the signal is stronger closer to the transmitter, and weaker far away.

You need to give him an analogy. Tell him you're the DM, and he's the player. He's in a long corridor, and he's detected a pit trap with a break-away floor in front of him. He know's it's full of poisonous spiders, and he left his Neutralize Poison at home. He knows it's there, but any, and I mean any action he takes to try to avoid it is vetoed by the DM. Then ask him what he does...

The Glyphstone

2013-03-31, 10:39 AM

Use his psychic powers to summon a katana and kill all the spiders

llehctim

2013-03-31, 11:23 AM

Has he never heard of triangulation? Even a basic receiver should be able to give you a direction, I don't care how they've encrypted the signal. Because the signal is stronger closer to the transmitter, and weaker far away.

You need to give him an analogy. Tell him you're the DM, and he's the player. He's in a long corridor, and he's detected a pit trap with a break-away floor in front of him. He know's it's full of poisonous spiders, and he left his Neutralize Poison at home. He knows it's there, but any, and I mean any action he takes to try to avoid it is vetoed by the DM. Then ask him what he does...

The more accurate thing would be to (ask if they are hostile mabye) then state that the spiders are unlikely to actually attack him, since most spiders are actually non-hostile to humans, and then talk about that for a bit (he likes spiders, technically I do too since the eat mosquito which are the bane of my existence and more or less the only thing I am seriously hostile towards)

PS: Just a side comment, while I would not be surprised if I learned the GM has aspergers, it's not really something they have control over, and I actually have a brother who is autistic (I suspect this is why I have adapted to become so patient) who can be reasoned with once you figure out what he means by things, they just tend to have issues communicating what they mean.

Arranis Thelmos

2013-03-31, 12:31 PM

4th-level Enchantment spell, Distribute Schadenfreude.

:smalltongue:

Just letting you know I'm totally sigging that. :smallsmile:

Lord Torath

2013-03-31, 01:34 PM

llehctim

2013-03-31, 01:38 PM

Okay, instead of venomous spiders:smalltongue:, there's a constant stream of ghosts passing through the pit, and if he falls in, he will rapidly be aged into senility. Or the pit is lined with green slime and rot grubs. :smallyuk:

The point is, he knows it's a trap, but no action he tries to take to avoid it is allowed to work.

Edit: I am also a big fan of spiders, bats, frogs, and any other animals that eat lots of mosquitoes.

Yay, I'm not the only one, also dragonflies (which i thought were supermosquitos, when i was younger).

Also currently trying to work out the individual major issues of the campaign, but assuming the GM is in a stressed confrontational mood. something like PURPLE(I would communicate with the ghosts and try to reason with them to not drain me, or I would not go into the trap.)

Trekkin

2013-03-31, 01:48 PM

Balanced with what? Commoners?

More or less. He tried to make a magic system 'more logical' than Vancian casting or mana, with the result that everyone works like warlocks now--except every spell cast has a chance of dropping you down a fatigue track, of which the bottom step is 'dead' (and other steps need multiple hours' rest to recover), and the spells' cast DC increases quadratically with level while the stat used to avoid that fatigue increases linearly. The odds work out to where casting two spells of every level in a single day has about a 50% chance of leaving the caster conscious, at least for this particular flavor of sorcerer.

Or, as more usually happens, fatigue accrues from other sources and there go most of your spells per day. But"it avoids the fifteen-minute adventuring day, because you can cast indefinately[sic]"

Unfortunately for psions, I like psionics, so they've been nerfed beyond this to prevent 'exploits', and even more so for the closest equivalent to psionics in Cthulhutech. Parapsychics, in addition to dealing with all of the above and a power progression that forces the highest-level power possible all the time, have a burn mechanic where they can be reduced to firing off all their powers all the time for hours, days, or months, and the trigger mechanism is explicitly DM fiat.

For this, they give up one-half of their gestalt.

Wheeeee

llehctim

2013-03-31, 02:11 PM

Huazzah a semi-rational conversation has been triggered, where issues were discussed and possibly resolved, yay.

Trekkin

2013-03-31, 02:13 PM

Huazzah a rational conversation has been triggered, where issues were discussed and possibly resolved, yay.

Albeit resolved by blaming me for:

a. playing my character with too much attention paid to what my abilities allow me to do and
b. not playing to my full potential

Also by deciding the campaign will end in a month and a half.

llehctim

2013-03-31, 02:17 PM

Albeit resolved by blaming me for:

a. playing my character with too much attention paid to what my abilities allow me to do and
b. not playing to my full potential

Also by deciding the campaign will end in a month and a half.

Sigh so much for optimism, but yes, I was hoping that minor progress would possibly be a start to fixing the problem. I won't be able to tell if any degree of change is made until after the session today I suppose.

Edit:Also in support of my earlier statements "Yeah this campaign is going in I hadn't predicted" Shocking, also apparently true for me, since I was pretty sure we would be the heroes not the people getting the hero factions together, perhaps I just don't like low level campaigns with slow level progression, where the players don't have a major influence.

Ashtagon

2013-03-31, 03:22 PM

... Shocking, also apparently true for me, since I was pretty sure we would be the heroes not the people getting the hero factions together, perhaps I just don't like low level campaigns with slow level progression, where the players don't have a major influence.

The problem is that you are being made to play (by GM fiat, if not actual numerical levels) low-level heroes in a campaign where the big bad is epic level. It is perfectly possible to have a low-level party and still have the PCs be the centre of the story, by making the big bad of each adventure arc level-appropriate. Your GM isn't doing that.

Please, don't hate on low-level play on account of this GM.

Feddlefew

2013-03-31, 03:45 PM

The problem is that you are being made to play (by GM fiat, if not actual numerical levels) low-level heroes in a campaign where the big bad is epic level. It is perfectly possible to have a low-level party and still have the PCs be the centre of the story, by making the big bad of each adventure arc level-appropriate. Your GM isn't doing that.

Please, don't hate on low-level play on account of this GM.

I ran a low level campaign in which the PCs saved a town from an extended drought by opening up access to an underground aquifer. They found this aquifer earlier why chasing bandits (whom had stolen their treasure map) into an old fort ruin, through a cavern infested with giant mites, and into an abandoned dwarven magma pumping station.

So they went back, scavenged some mechanisms (it required the entire party plus two blacksmiths to get them out without flooding the place with magma) and made what amounted to an artificial spring in the town.

When they came back from their treasure hunt, the town was experiencing a population explosion because they had the only source of water for 300 miles...
..And creatures from the underdark were spotted wandering the ruins the bandits had been camping in earlier.

And this was all before level 5. :smallbiggrin:

Trekkin

2013-03-31, 03:55 PM

Unfortunately, all the problems with the game are exacerbated by the slow XP flow. Noncombat actions, for a very narrow definition of combat, earn "roleplaying XP", which is his excuse to hand out 100 XP per session, total, so he can keep using our low level as an excuse to bar us doing things. At this rate we would level up once every two real-time years, as far as I can determine.

It doesn't matter what we do, really. Either something dies, or we get 100 XP per session -- and when something does die, he cuts the XP in half, minimum, because we had environmental assistance (usually my doing) or allies or whatever. The implications for his universal system are staggering, but of course he doesn't believe in syllogism.

He also refuses to believe his casting system is weaker than wizard casting, and for that reason refuses to let me retrain. "Just use your class features more, dude." The class features that are potentially fatal, he means, because "you overestimate the cost and probability of failure".

You know, with mathematics. Which he also apparently doesn't believe.

And to top it all off, we got more explanation of why science is bad. "You're a scientist. You have to study all this. We're engineers; we don't need much science. The character I envisioned in Cael was specifically not a scientist so we could avoid this."

Well, gee whiz, I sure am sorry I didn't play my character with the thoughts you'd intended for him to have. It's almost like we're using an interactive medium here.

In all honesty though, this is apparently what's killed the campaign's chances of enduring online past college -- that "the plot has gone in so many directions other than what I imagined".

It should make tonight's session interesting at least.

jindra34

2013-03-31, 04:02 PM

Arranis Thelmos

2013-03-31, 04:13 PM

Ashtagon

2013-03-31, 04:20 PM

@2) The way casting worked was that you get progressively more fatigued if you cast spells, ultimately ending in character death if you cast too many.

...Sorry, I'm just some long time reader. :smallredface: enjoying every post of it though.

You should totally use your class features, let your character die, then act all surprised, and maybe let him figure out on his own that the rules aren't properly balanced.

Trekkin

2013-03-31, 04:21 PM

1. Engineers don't need much science... Okay then.
2. What precisely does your main class feature allow you to do?
3. And of course he probably never tried to get a connection with the character/plot you wanted. Also isn't your class scientist? HOW WOULD YOU NOT BE A SCIENTIST?

2. It's "parapsychic casting"; it allows me to effectively cast nerfed versions of wiz/sorc cantrips with a 30%+ chance of a mounting series of across-the-board debuffs ending in unconsciousness/death and an unknown (fiat-based) chance of triggering that debuff series even if the numbers say otherwise. If anyone notices me using it, the setting apparently canonically spawns shoot-on-sight squads from the ether, too.
3. Because this is his world, and he doesn't like objectivity.

And I mean he can't stand objective truth, because it implies the subjectivity of opinion. He has a unique method of expressing his thoughts on things. If asked their opinion on, say, ice cream, a normal person might say "I like chocolate the best." Chief Circle will instead say, and mean, "Chocolate is the superior flavor". :smallconfused:
Or "katanas are the best sword". :smallannoyed:
Or "I'm the best DM of all of us." :smallfurious:

I don't know if he can tell the difference between a rationally generated opinion and a fact, come to think of it. He's certainly never flatly admitted subjectivity before...

Lord Torath

2013-03-31, 04:36 PM

Yay, I'm not the only one, also dragonflies (which i thought were supermosquitos, when i was younger).

Also currently trying to work out the individual major issues of the campaign, but assuming the GM is in a stressed confrontational mood. something like PURPLE(I would communicate with the ghosts and try to reason with them to not drain me, or I would not go into the trap.)

Sadly, there's a 50 ton block of stone completely filling the passageway slowly advancing on your position. Within ten minutes it will shove you into the warehouse. I mean pit trap. And the rot grubs and green slime don't seem inclined to talk to you...

(Also, preying mantises. But that's probably obvious from my avatar.)

@ Trekkin:

So it's kind of based off the Shadowrun system of magic? Except that you don't have dice pools to make you less likely to take the drain damage, and the damage is always 'Serious' or 'Deadly'.

maxriderules

2013-03-31, 04:42 PM

Given what you've said about this guy, I think that not only is he a terrible DM, he may also be a terrible person. If he doesn't believe in the idea that he could be wrong IRL, you shouldn't be playing RPGs with him. This is speaking as someone who's best friend has aspergers- doesn't mean he should get a free pass to this extent, even if he does.

Trekkin

2013-03-31, 04:46 PM

So it's kind of based off the Shadowrun system of magic? Except that you don't have dice pools to make you less likely to take 'stun' damage...

Oh, he despises Shadowrun vitriolically (because it's one of my favorite systems to run one-runs in, mostly) and would flatly deny that for hours, but yes.

There's just no real way to choose the Force of a spell, and no stun damage.

Lord Torath

2013-03-31, 04:49 PM

That's too bad. I loved Shadowrun. I had an awesome decker and a mage with some custom spells I really enjoyed. (This was 2nd Ed, and I've never had a chance to try out the newer versions)

1. Engineers don't need much science... Okay then.
As a Mechanical Engineer, I most strenuously object!

Granted, I may not need to know the latest in microbiology, but I still need a pretty good foundation in it. Plus material science and basic chemistry.

Plus, I love following the latest developments in Particle Physics and Astronomy/Cosmology.

Might as well say that since an Engineer has no need to know anything about Feudal Japan, he shouldn't be able to answer any questions about it.... :smalltongue:

jindra34

2013-03-31, 04:59 PM

As a Mechanical Engineer, I most strenuously object!

Granted, I may not need to know the latest in microbiology, but I still need a pretty good foundation in it. Plus material science and basic chemistry.

Plus, I love following the latest developments in Particle Physics and Astronomy/Cosmology.

Might as well say that since an Engineer has no need to know anything about Feudal Japan, he shouldn't be able to answer any questions about it.... :smalltongue:

Apparently my attempt at trying to reflect the cognitive dissonace that the DM's words triggered failed. I, as an Architectural engineer in training, quite agree with the statement the engineers need science. We just focus more on the practical, applied side than scientists.

Trekkin

2013-03-31, 05:02 PM

That's too bad. I loved Shadowrun. I had an awesome decker and a mage with some custom spells I really enjoyed. (This was 2nd Ed, and I've never had a chance to try out the newer versions)

As a Mechanical Engineer, I most strenuously object!

Granted, I may not need to know the latest in microbiology, but I still need a pretty good foundation in it. Plus material science and basic chemistry.

Plus, I love following the latest developments in Particle Physics and Astronomy/Cosmology.

Might as well say that since an Engineer has no need to know anything about Feudal Japan, he shouldn't be able to answer any questions about it.... :smalltongue:

Yeah, me too. I like using its Matrix rules.

And...I had thought that was closer to the norm than myopic hyper-focus on technology as it exists today, where "engineers are much more concerned with precedent than cutting-edge technology."

Feddlefew

2013-03-31, 05:04 PM

Apparently my attempt at trying to reflect the cognitive dissonace that the DM's words triggered failed. I, as an Architectural engineer in training, quite agree with the statement the engineers need science. We just focus more on the practical, applied side than scientists.

I always thought of it this way:

Scientists are the people who explore uncharted lands.

Engineers are the people who figure out how to build settlements them.

Lord Torath

2013-03-31, 05:07 PM

Apparently my attempt at trying to reflect the cognitive dissonace that the DM's words triggered failed. I, as an Architectural engineer in training, quite agree with the statement the engineers need science. We just focus more on the practical, applied side than scientists.Oh, I wasn't knocking you jindra. I got the idea that your 'okay' was a drawn-out "Oookaaay. Humor the guy until his sedative kicks in and we can restrain him..."

TuggyNE

2013-03-31, 05:34 PM

Just letting you know I'm totally sigging that. :smallsmile:

Sweet! I love sigs.

I ran a low level campaign in which the PCs saved a town from an extended drought by opening up access to an underground aquifer. They found this aquifer earlier why chasing bandits (whom had stolen their treasure map) into an old fort ruin, through a cavern infested with giant mites, and into an abandoned dwarven magma pumping station.

This sounds suspiciously based on a certain PC game. :smallbiggrin:

Feddlefew

2013-03-31, 05:37 PM

This sounds suspiciously based on a certain PC game. :smallbiggrin:

I didn't expect them to get through a certain door, and I didn't have any dungeon behind it. So I had the plans laying around for my DF magma reservoir and distribution center...

Trekkin

2013-03-31, 05:45 PM

I didn't expect them to get through a certain door, and I didn't have any dungeon behind it. So I had the plans laying around for my DF magma reservoir and distribution center...

I assume you left in the fire imp infestation?

Or was it just me who tried to be oh-so-clever and build nether-cap magma pumps?

llehctim

2013-03-31, 05:56 PM

You should totally use your class features, let your character die, then act all surprised, and maybe let him figure out on his own that the rules aren't properly balanced.

I suggested this actually, I think if he exhausts himself and ends up dying because of it, he could make his point VERY clearly.

EDIT: also yes, I apologize for implying low level campaigns are all bad, the implication was low level campaigns that i have been in tended to be pretty sub-par.

Feddlefew

2013-03-31, 06:33 PM

I assume you left in the fire imp infestation?

Or was it just me who tried to be oh-so-clever and build nether-cap magma pumps?

I had the place already picked clean in the distant past (before the locking mechanism on door leading in broke) and infested with giant insects- the last thing I needed was my players getting artifact admantium weapons and armor from the connected armory. :smalleek:

The did make off with a snazzy door, which they eventually found someone to fix/rekey.

Arbane

2013-03-31, 07:13 PM

More or less. He tried to make a magic system 'more logical' than Vancian casting or mana, with the result that everyone works like warlocks now--except every spell cast has a chance of dropping you down a fatigue track, of which the bottom step is 'dead' (and other steps need multiple hours' rest to recover), and the spells' cast DC increases quadratically with level while the stat used to avoid that fatigue increases linearly. The odds work out to where casting two spells of every level in a single day has about a 50% chance of leaving the caster conscious, at least for this particular flavor of sorcerer.

So, he made a _worse_ Truenamer?
That's awesome, but not in the complimentary meaning of the word.

He also refuses to believe his casting system is weaker than wizard casting, and for that reason refuses to let me retrain. "Just use your class features more, dude." The class features that are potentially fatal, he means, because "you overestimate the cost and probability of failure".

I fully agree with Ashtagon, here:

You should totally use your class features, let your character die, then act all surprised, and maybe let him figure out on his own that the rules aren't properly balanced.

This is supposed to be a playtest, right? So, test it. Your GM may have made his roll to disbelieve statistics, but let's see him deny characters dropping like flies.

In all honesty though, this is apparently what's killed the campaign's chances of enduring online past college -- that "the plot has gone in so many directions other than what I imagined".

It's a mercy killing, really. :smallamused:

How often do you guy play? I thought you just had a session yesterday.

Geordnet

2013-03-31, 10:12 PM

Yeah, me too. I like using its Matrix rules.
You know, the situation you're in is pretty much the Matrix, if you think about it...

Or at least, it's like the first Matrix which the Architect mentioned at the end of Reloaded.

Perhaps you could leverage this, and use it as an example for how Chief Circle's system is broken, and how to fix it. (By adding Choice, of course. :smallwink:)

This is supposed to be a playtest, right? So, test it. Your GM may have made his roll to disbelieve statistics, but let's see him deny characters dropping like flies.
"It's not my fault you don't know how to play your characters right."

...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3b/Paris_Tuileries_Garden_Facepalm_statue.jpg

Feddlefew

2013-03-31, 10:17 PM

"It's not my fault you don't know how to play your characters right."

...

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3b/Paris_Tuileries_Garden_Facepalm_statue.jpg

The bird scat really adds to that, you know?

Trekkin

2013-04-01, 12:22 AM

In answer to Arbane's question: we have sessions every Sunday 6PM-midnight Eastern time, but we hang out a lot outside of session just because, and sometimes session-related things come up.

Thankfully, we've finally found at least part of the key to surviving Chief Circle's Crazy Adventure: leveraging his ignorance to defeat his obstructiveness.

Put another way, making stuff up as rapidly as possible.

It's like taking a real-time SAT verbal; the trick for me wasn't to answer as correctly as possible but to answer as close to the general perception of an intelligent high school student as possible. In this case, it's a bit worse than that, but the basic principle remains: buy into the world as he understands it and suddenly one's plans are clever instead of disruptive.

We need a warehouse to meet in? Hey, there are warehouses for Limburger cheese right? Let's go there. Obviously they're not inhabited; who wants to smell Limburger all day, am I right?
Limburger get stored in big waxed wheels, yes? Like all really good cheese. And we can scrape out the middle of the cheese and replace it with Henderson blend coffee , then re-wax it real quick, right?
Because of course you wax cheese in big giant vats of wax kept constantly liquid like adamantium.
Black wax. Because the bacteria in Limburger die in sunlight, you see?

And so on and so forth, simplifying the world in ways that incidentally help our cause. Before, I literally could not make a pointy stick. Now? Now I can make curd howitzers by taping ten kilos of 'coffee' to the side of a curdling tub and dropping another ten in the bottom, set to go off in quick succession. Said devices do almost nothing, but it is amusing to realize he's gotten curdling tubs confused with foundry ladles.

It is also fun to set the signal for the Tagers to leap out to the same signal that sets off a hundred kilos of 'coffee' mixed with an equal amount of magnesium in the cheese racks behind us.

While I shoot a net gun at point-blank range into the guy we're allegedly negotiating with. From under the table. Ouch.

Now, we still have yet to receive an explanation for why the XP was split seven ways between six allied combatants, three of them NPCs (two of whom did nothing) and there are some...liberties taken with chemistry, but hey. I got to sit down opposite a lich (not that we knew that), spend several minutes talking with him while our allies confirmed his associates' identities, and then ask him something I've been meaning to ask someone for a while now.

As it happens, he did not know where me wee men were.

But it was fun to make the wall explode by asking.

Now, we've also gotten him more or less overjoyed that with our immediate job done, we can wait for orders, so we can play even further into his hands...and along the way, get things established for our coup de grace.

Gavinfoxx

2013-04-01, 12:25 AM

So the way to win isn't to play the game... it's to play the GM?

Trekkin

2013-04-01, 12:32 AM

So the way to win isn't to play the game... it's to play the GM?

In essence, yes; to accept uncritically his messed-up world and add to it in ways that don't seem threatening.

That's how to 'win' the game itself, yes. To actually make it serve a larger purpose...I'm working on that. But it's significant how much more leeway one gets with the setting when one constantly acknowledges how right he is.

The Glyphstone

2013-04-01, 12:44 AM

So the way to win isn't to play the game... it's to play the GM?

A strange game. The only winning move is not to play stuff cheese wheels with explosive coffee bricks.

llehctim

2013-04-01, 01:08 AM

In essence, yes; to accept uncritically his messed-up world and add to it in ways that don't seem threatening.

That's how to 'win' the game itself, yes. To actually make it serve a larger purpose...I'm working on that. But it's significant how much more leeway one gets with the setting when one constantly acknowledges how right he is.

That's one way of looking at it and probably how I keep getting ridiculous characters approved "You have to make them want the same thing you want".

Also yeah Ideally my new character might be able to help with that.
Also rather tempting to have them beat the crap out of the party with nonlethal damage to prove the power difference between the classes, although I suspect I would fail given my propensity for bad rolls, and if the other characters are using lethal weapons ... or if I was ... I kindof don't want to have my player murder someone's character without justification..

Grod_The_Giant

2013-04-01, 09:03 AM

A strange game. The only winning move is not to play stuff cheese wheels with explosive coffee bricks.
Thank you, sir, now I have to clean this soda off my monitor. I can still feel the bubbles in my nose...

jindra34

2013-04-01, 09:17 AM

So whose idea was it that was sealing machines actually had CONSTANT HOT WAX vats in them? And for that matter be in the storage warehouse?

Trekkin

2013-04-01, 09:51 AM

So whose idea was it that was sealing machines actually had CONSTANT HOT WAX vats in them? And for that matter be in the storage warehouse?

That would be mine. :smallbiggrin: He wasn't about to allow a waxing machine, and I needed the seals, so...

He also doesn't believe that warehouses exist anymore unless they serve another purpose, because of nanotech. Apparently property values are too high.

So we get a foundry ladle full of wax as the most logical solution. No big scary machine, just hundreds of liters of molten wax. Because that's safer.

Grod_The_Giant

2013-04-01, 09:51 AM

So whose idea was it that was sealing machines actually had CONSTANT HOT WAX vats in them? And for that matter be in the storage warehouse?
Are you kidding? What kind of warehouse doesn't have random vats of hazardous chemicals/hot metal/dangerous machinery lying around waiting for heroes to dangle over dramatically?

Trekkin

2013-04-01, 10:04 AM

Are you kidding? What kind of warehouse doesn't have random vats of hazardous chemicals/hot metal/dangerous machinery lying around waiting for heroes to dangle over dramatically?

The kind not supplied with "infinite free clean energy", presumably. Because what do you mean wax evaporates?

And what kind of warehouse can't be made dangerous? Like how rapidly heating setting curds instantly makes them into 'string cheese' that takes a DC 20 Reflex save to break out of?

Eldan

2013-04-01, 10:38 AM

Oh, that's perfect. Really, that's just great.

You know, I'm tutoring a few high-schoolers in science. I'll talk to them about htis and get back to you with their crazier ideas :smallwink:

Deffers

2013-04-01, 10:59 AM

As it happens, he did not know where me wee men were.

You're doing it right.

Tanuki Tales

2013-04-01, 11:13 AM

I think this thread needs to get stickied as a permanent example of how not to act as a Dungeon Master/Game Master/Storyteller/etc.

Deffers

2013-04-01, 11:24 AM

I second that motion. I mean, this is Lanky levels of bad GMing, just without the felonies. People need to know that , if you're doing this, then you're not DMing properly.

The Glyphstone

2013-04-01, 11:28 AM

Worse. When you strip away the felonies, the Lanky story of PsychoDM is just a bog-standard bad, railroady DM with a grudge against manga...it's the cops and lasagna and brick through the window that make it stand out. This is far, far deeper down the rabbit hole of terrible DMing.

Trekkin

2013-04-01, 11:29 AM

I second that motion. I mean, this is Lanky levels of bad GMing, just without the felonies. People need to know that , if you're doing this, then you're not DMing properly.

Especially once this is all over and everyone involved can compare notes.

Personally, I want the Stu's backstory, but I can't get that till after the campaign.

He's the sole survivor of an improbable number of things, apparently.

llehctim

2013-04-01, 01:16 PM

Especially once this is all over and everyone involved can compare notes.

Personally, I want the Stu's backstory, but I can't get that till after the campaign.

He's the sole survivor of an improbable number of things, apparently.

Yeah, whoops I thought he had told you too, I am not telling you, because I'm not sure if I'm supposed to and he might not send me the rest if he thinks I'll tell you. Although I might summarize the key points later.

EDIT: although you may be shocked to hear that
most of the contents reinforce this thread.

Scow2

2013-04-01, 01:18 PM

In essence, yes; to accept uncritically his messed-up world and add to it in ways that don't seem threatening.

That's how to 'win' the game itself, yes. To actually make it serve a larger purpose...I'm working on that. But it's significant how much more leeway one gets with the setting when one constantly acknowledges how right he is.Actually, this is a fundamental principal for almost any roleplaying game, regardless of whether the GM's good or bad. The adversarial rules-lawyer that kills catgirls until he gets his way is one of the more obnoxious player archetypes. If you're playing against the GM, you've already lost.

Or at least that's my experience.

Tanuki Tales

2013-04-01, 01:36 PM

Or at least that's my experience.

Except you need to play against the DM in this game to even have the basic agency you're supposed to have as a player. Otherwise you're just another bit part in his delusional path to real life godhood. Since he honestly believes he's just a clone created by his fictional Ao-Sue. :smallsigh:

Feddlefew

2013-04-01, 01:42 PM

And what kind of warehouse can't be made dangerous? Like how rapidly heating setting curds instantly makes them into 'string cheese' that takes a DC 20 Reflex save to break out of?

Knowing how cheese is really made only makes this funnier. :smallbiggrin:

Scow2

2013-04-01, 01:56 PM

Except you need to play against the DM in this game to even have the basic agency you're supposed to have as a player. Otherwise you're just another bit part in his delusional path to real life godhood. Since he honestly believes he's just a clone created by his fictional Ao-Sue. :smallsigh:Not against. Tangental too, at furthest divergence. Didn't the GM made it clear that the game's campaign was about making the way for Ao-Sue to appear? From what I've seen, the players have been largely getting 'shut down' and railroaded because, despite knowing the parameters of the joke of the campaign and still continuing to play it, they blatantly attempt to subvert and oppose the campaign's stated goals.

Yes, the GM is "That Guy." However, committing to Plot Derailment makes you "That Guy" (Have you seen all the GM-oriented discussions raging against players that try to actively disrupt their games, try mixing game mechanics and real physics to Craft(Cheese), and loudly mock or walk away from every plot thread the GM tosses their way? This is the other side of that coin). Trying to counter "That Guy" with "That Guy" leads to a "That Guy" arms race - and ultimately, "Either what the GM says, goes. Or the player does," reigns supreme.

Besides, someone already pointed out that the Ur Example of plot derailment required working with and going along with the absurd campaign to ultimately succeed in getting a scale named in honor of his awesome Campaign Derailment.

Trekkin

2013-04-01, 02:44 PM

llehctim

2013-04-01, 04:50 PM

This is true, and I mourn the lost catgirls. At the same time, though, when you have the GM shutting down even those players who want to do what they're told for trying to be effective at it...

EDIT: Not me. Our sniper, who only really wants to shoot things.

If he had told us at the beginning that we were the opening act for Ao-Sue showing up, I would have left laughing. It's that he waited to spring on us that we were useless -- and even now at times denies the Ao-Sue's existence vis a vis this campaign (yes, his doublethink extends to functional agnosticism about himself)-- that makes me willing to pull these sorts of shenanigans.

I tried, really I did. Meticulously applied real physics was not my first resort, but my last one; I only even started scratch-building more potent explosives after the GM revealed there were none on the black market ever (not that that stops our criminal foes at all), for example.

So of course my physics-based tomfoolery oughtn't to happen in a perfect world. It sadly remains the only way to have agency in a game that would otherwise devolve into being kicked from one super-powerful entity to another, powerless to do anything but cry out for the Ao-Sue to save us.

That's the job of NPCs, and when a DM forgets the difference between players and mindless tools for plot driving, I'm just stubborn enough to want to remind him.

FURTHER EDIT: And just when I think he's reached the peak of...him-ness...he breaks out the flipping metaphorical jetpack...

Based on what I remember from the timeline of the settings the Sue shouldn't show up for ~2months in character, so if we want to avoid showing up slow the progress of any time, if we want him to show up to provoke confrontation about it where we are in absolute right to leave, we should be doing time consuming goals he sets, assuming an option, but we should maximize the time wasted.

EDIT: at this point just leaving the game is seeming like a better option to me, since it is obvious that neither side will back down, and it was silly of me to think I could try to reason through problems between two(or more) humans, since they are clearly all incomprehensible to me.
And I don't have the time to properly deal with the underlying issues behind this, since I am not a professional psychologist and cannot be completely objective.
But of course the problems wont go away if i leave the campaign they'll just get worse and I get to deal with more real life problems.
PS:EMPATHY is really a terrible thing to have when you can't actually do anything about it.

Deffers

2013-04-01, 07:22 PM

What happened now?

Waspinator

2013-04-01, 07:37 PM

Sith_Happens

2013-04-01, 07:56 PM

[cheese-based ambush and the setting up thereof]

:eek:

Wow. Here we've all been pushing you to let out your inner Kyon, and you go and become Haruhi instead.

If I've been reading things right, you now have 5-6 sessions left to exploit your newfound powers. Good luck.

Trekkin

2013-04-01, 09:08 PM

I just read through this whole thread and one thing in particular bugs me. It's a denial among many, but this one stands out to me for some reason. He ruled that genetically modifying bacteria to make drugs is unrealistic? Does he realize that the real-life pharmaceutical industry already does this?

Of course he does; he just doesn't care.

Really, this is one of those things that we disagree on even out of game; it's just thrown into sharper relief when I try to weaponize it as a response to most of the game world being in unsympathetic ontological limbo.

See, I'm a curious guy. I want to know, at a bare minimum, how and why the world works; it's why I went into science. Unfortunately, this applies to RPGs as well; I'll accept the existence of anything, but then I'll try my hardest to rip it apart and build it better. In short, I compulsively open black boxes.

This works about as well as you might expect in a world full of black-box systems, run by a guy who doesn't care how the world works. He has a story to tell -- and from that point of view, the guy sticking his head in a D-engine and yodeling to see how far the echoes carry is wasting time, and the one trying to scan the arcology air systems for dhohanoid skin/hair samples is being a smart aleck. He's running a campaign, not a science fair.

And yeah, I guess I did go a bit Haruhi there. The logs are more Kyon-y, though. With luck, I can keep making him okay with the direction of the campaign for long enough to get an actual ending.

And as for what happened, Deffers...apparently my new haircut is not up to his standards and he has strong feelings about guys with insufficiently masculine appearances. I'd swear he gets ninety years older when these sorts of issues come up. Making it a hundred times worse, I've had an unfortunate history of being bullied about that sort of thing, and he's been told that repeatedly, not that he cares enough to remember.

His capacity to be casually infuriating cannot be overstated.

Malrone

2013-04-01, 09:14 PM

And as for what happened...apparently my new haircut is not up to his standards and he has strong feelings about guys with insufficiently masculine appearances.

:smallannoyed::smallmad::furious:

I swear, if he's ever used the terms Alpha and Beta in regards to men...
I've spent a good portion of my life tearing down the Cult of Masculinity as it pertains to those around me. It's ridiculous and outmoded, and frankly idiotic. I shouldn't be surprised or shocked, but another nerve here has been touched. Not to mention the sheer hubris of him having especial standards for how those around him look in private. Proverbial jetpack, indeed.

So, what are we looking for next session? Aerated coffee supersoakers? Cheese based transportation? Confronting your inept contacts? Extreme-underwater-thumb-sitting?

Feddlefew

2013-04-01, 09:27 PM

llehctim

2013-04-01, 09:32 PM

Declare all of your characters are women who have secretly been cross dressing so that they are respected more in their chosen professions and see what happens.

There is historical precedent. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_cross-dressing#Historical_figures)

Oh man I did this so hard as a binder who worshiped Vecna once. The character was a female noble who disguised as Dante Silverun an "Artist" who drew pictures to recharge his abilities (they had a cooldown and I couldnt hurt the enemies without it when I was introduced) who basically had various disguises some of which were female to explain why i had disguise skill. I saw where that campaign was going though and had the character not join the party beyond the convenient defense of a town. Then I made Shara :smallamused:, but thats a story for another time and campaign.

Trekkin

2013-04-01, 09:41 PM

:smallannoyed::smallmad::furious:

I swear, if he's ever used the terms Alpha and Beta in regards to men...

So, what are we looking for next session? Aerated coffee supersoakers? Cheese based transportation? Confronting your inept contacts? Extreme-underwater-thumb-sitting?

Oh, just...yes. Only once he trusts you though. It's how he claims to win arguments. And really, that almost gets me madder than the thing itself. That he knows it's garbage and rationalizes it as the unenlightened masses not comprehending it...

And we don't know what's happening next; I'm kind of trying to stall for plot. That said, lacking anything else to do, probably breaking into the GIA's 'secure' holding facility and getting the dhohanoids we captured last mission in order to interrogate them properly.

By which I mean the good old good-cop, bad-cop, this-is-all-the-Matrix-wake-up-Neo cop routine. I intend to share limburger sandwiches in abundance. Mostly with the 'replacement' gnomes, though, many of whom I still need to sculpt. It will be like a tea party! With stun batons!

We'll probably have something else to do though.

Feddlefew

2013-04-01, 09:46 PM

In these situations I always like to point out that, in reality, "Alpha" wolves are mature adult pack members, and "beta" wolves are cohabitating children.... :smallamused:

Of course he doesn't believe in animal behavioral studies....

llehctim

2013-04-01, 09:49 PM

Oh, just...yes. Only once he trusts you though. It's how he claims to win arguments. And really, that almost gets me madder than the thing itself. That he knows it's garbage and rationalizes it as the unenlightened masses not comprehending it...

And we don't know what's happening next; I'm kind of trying to stall for plot. That said, lacking anything else to do, probably breaking into the GIA's 'secure' holding facility and getting the dhohanoids we captured last mission in order to interrogate them properly.

By which I mean the good old good-cop, bad-cop, this-is-all-the-Matrix-wake-up-Neo cop routine. I intend to share limburger sandwiches in abundance. Mostly with the 'replacement' gnomes, though, many of whom I still need to sculpt. It will be like a tea party! With stun batons!

We'll probably have something else to do though.

I suspect my character coming in will be a plot drop, given that he more or less implied that, and given my back-story I might have access to the information.

Waspinator

2013-04-01, 10:27 PM

Honestly, it sounds like this guy is one of those DMs that just should not touch anything resembling a real world setting. If you want to be able to dictate what technology is and is not available, you should stick to completely fabricated settings. I can accept that no one in Eberron has thought of gunpowder or that paper doesn't exist in Star Wars because those are fictional worlds. When you do modern day settings or a future setting based on the real world, it rapidly becomes absurd to ignore real world science.

Let's take the material strength thing. What was it, you were wanting to make kevlar nets or something? And the DM didn't want them to be too hard to break? The fundamental problem is that kevlar is a real thing that we actually know things about. If this was Eberron, you can make up something about the properties of magic rope or whatever since it's, you know, magic. When you make the setting the real world, you bring in the quite reasonable assumption that real things work the way they really do. If you want to make up physics as you go, the game should be set in Narnia or something.

Alejandro

2013-04-01, 10:45 PM

Not to interrupt, because this is really a very entertaining thread (and I thank you for it) but, Trekkin: Does this GM of yours (the actual real person, not his psychosis game avatar)... how to put this nicely... Do they have a ladyfriend or boyfriend upon which to do the Humpty Hump? Because this really does sound like a situation that calls for it.

Also, you have the patience of saints.

Trekkin

2013-04-01, 10:50 PM

Let's take the material strength thing. What was it, you were wanting to make kevlar nets or something? And the DM didn't want them to be too hard to break? The fundamental problem is that kevlar is a real thing that we actually know things about. If this was Eberron, you can make up something about the properties of magic rope or whatever since it's, you know, magic. When you make the setting the real world, you bring in the quite reasonable assumption that real things work the way they really do. If you want to make up physics as you go, the game should be set in Narnia or something.

Eventually Kevlar, yes. I started wanting to draw my own SWNT/RGOF/PVA fiber (partially because water solubility is a good thing, and all of those things are commercially available), because apparently 200 Mpa steel is the strongest commerically available fiber--and so humanity just kind of forgot that's a thing. There weren't even Kevlar nets; it was only being used to make body armor.

Decades of warfare, and standard-issue military firearms (which DM-canonically use titanium metallic glass self-sharpening kinetic energy penetrators now) still can't beat Kevlar plates. But a knife can.

Because otherwise how would you cut armor plates?

See, I'm slowly understanding the DM's priorities for things working like they do. As long as the Sue can get through it, his methods aren't dissimilar to how my parents used to resolve sibling rivalries. Justice (or logic) is a fine thing, but the important thing is quiet (or all my questions not getting in the way of the story).

He does try to run fantasy settings so he can tear logic to little pieces with magic, though, so at least he's aware of the easy solution.

EDIT:Alejandro: No. He's taken pains to inform us that he "considers [himself] above such banal things as" needing or wanting any form of closeness with another human being.

His protestations always seem to grow markedly more vociferous around couples, though. At least I've noticed it more during those few times when he's been around my girlfriend and me.

Arbane

2013-04-01, 10:58 PM

He does try to run fantasy settings so he can tear logic to little pieces with magic, though, so at least he's aware of the easy solution.

Has he, by chance, ever heard of a manga/anime/VN called 'Umineko no Naku Koro Ni"? It you can some how slip that one into his multiverse, things might get interesting.

Because the bold part can work in reverse, too.

llehctim

2013-04-01, 11:03 PM

Eventually Kevlar, yes. I started wanting to draw my own SWNT/RGOF/PVA fiber (partially because water solubility is a good thing, and all of those things are commercially available), because apparently 200 Mpa steel is the strongest commerically available fiber--and so humanity just kind of forgot that's a thing. There weren't even Kevlar nets; it was only being used to make body armor.

Decades of warfare, and standard-issue military firearms (which DM-canonically use titanium metallic glass self-sharpening kinetic energy penetrators now) still can't beat Kevlar plates. But a knife can.

Because otherwise how would you cut armor plates?

See, I'm slowly understanding the DM's priorities for things working like they do. As long as the Sue can get through it, his methods aren't dissimilar to how my parents used to resolve sibling rivalries. Justice (or logic) is a fine thing, but the important thing is quiet (or all my questions not getting in the way of the story).

He does try to run fantasy settings so he can tear logic to little pieces with magic, though, so at least he's aware of the easy solution.

EDIT:Alejandro: No. He's taken pains to inform us that he "considers [himself] above such banal things as" needing or wanting any form of closeness with another human being.

His protestations always seem to grow markedly more vociferous around couples, though. At least I've noticed it more during those few times when he's been around my girlfriend and me.

It does seem like one of those things that could be a false bravado, but it is technically possible that he is correct, I mean I don't consider myself above a relation so much as I'm convinced I wouldn't be able to do it properly, since I have trouble understanding people let alone someone I want to be that close with.

Alejandro

2013-04-01, 11:07 PM

Alejandro: No. He's taken pains to inform us that he "considers [himself] above such banal things as" needing or wanting any form of closeness with another human being.

His protestations always seem to grow markedly more vociferous around couples, though. At least I've noticed it more during those few times when he's been around my girlfriend and me.

Okay, that's pretty much what I expected you to say. I was hoping maybe your GM just needed to, for lack of a better phrase, get laid. I've known some insufferable people who transformed amazingly after some genital pillowfights. In this case, there's two possibilities:

- Your GM desperately wants a girlfriend/boyfriend but will absolutely never say so, so instead they explain how such things are beneath them, and get even more upset when around your girlfriend, since you're making him insane with envy.

- Your GM really doesn't want any closeness with another person, which is sometimes harmless but more often, especially at your age, a sign of mental instability and/or illness, especially if they also cannot, for example, feel empathy, like a sociopath.

I suggest you spend more time with your girlfriend and less time with this natural 1. Also, see if you can find a fencing club (foil or epee especially) and start learning about basic swordplay that doesn't involve katanas, just because this will infuriate him. Does he have a rack of katanas on his wall, by any chance, that he never bothered to learn about wielding, with actual exercises?

Waspinator

2013-04-01, 11:09 PM

Ok, new plan. Have your character get a big TV, a microwave, and a cell phone and tell your past self to never sign up for this stupid mission.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/VisualNovel/SteinsGate

Feddlefew

2013-04-01, 11:12 PM

It does seem like one of those things that could be a false bravado, but it is technically possible that he is correct, I mean I don't consider myself above a relation so much as I'm convinced I wouldn't be able to do it properly, since I have trouble understanding people let alone someone I want to be that close with.

Relationships are hard. Especially when you can't read body language or faces very well. :smallfrown:

Personally I think it's a little easier for men with autism spectrum disorders (or who are just socially awkward) to have romantic relationships because of differing social expectations, but that's a different problem.

Eventually you'll probably meet someone you get along with smashingly and is just as socially (un)adept as you are.

Edit: Have I mentioned I have asperger's yet?

llehctim

2013-04-01, 11:18 PM

Okay, that's pretty much what I expected you to say. I was hoping maybe your GM just needed to, for lack of a better phrase, get laid. I've known some insufferable people who transformed amazingly after some genital pillowfights. In this case, there's two possibilities:

- Your GM desperately wants a girlfriend/boyfriend but will absolutely never say so, so instead they explain how such things are beneath them, and get even more upset when around your girlfriend, since you're making him insane with envy.

- Your GM really doesn't want any closeness with another person, which is sometimes harmless but more often, especially at your age, a sign of mental instability and/or illness, especially if they also cannot, for example, feel empathy, like a sociopath.

I suggest you spend more time with your girlfriend and less time with this natural 1. Also, see if you can find a fencing club (foil or epee especially) and start learning about basic swordplay that doesn't involve katanas, just because this will infuriate him. Does he have a rack of katanas on his wall, by any chance, that he never bothered to learn about wielding, with actual exercises?

I did take fencing during high school, and I took a bit of kendo during high school, and I liked fencing more due to its style, I gather that might annoy him, since it was my reasoning for not using a katana on my last character, and he has grudgingly acknowledged that my Italian character might be more likely to have a proper italian longsword (1d8 dmg instead of 1d10, well with iron blow 2d8 not 2d10).

Feddlefew

2013-04-01, 11:21 PM

Alejandro

2013-04-01, 11:23 PM

I did take fencing during high school, and I took a bit of kendo during high school, and I liked fencing more due to its style, I gather that might annoy him, since it was my reasoning for not using a katana on my last character, and he has grudgingly acknowledged that my Italian character might be more likely to have a proper italian longsword (1d8 dmg instead of 1d10, well with iron blow 2d8 not 2d10).

Good for you! See if you can find a place to get into it again. All swords had very useful functions, for the cultures and times in history they appeared in. The katana was an excellent weapon, but certainly not a magically always awesome one. Real samurai often used bows and arrows, and spears on horseback, anyway. Katana were for duels and ceremony.

Let me guess, does your GM have a giant hardon for any discussion of the Japanese katana being better in every way than any European blade?

Trekkin

2013-04-01, 11:23 PM

Okay, that's pretty much what I expected you to say. I was hoping maybe your GM just needed to, for lack of a better phrase, get laid. I've known some insufferable people who transformed amazingly after some genital pillowfights. In this case, there's two possibilities:

- Your GM desperately wants a girlfriend/boyfriend but will absolutely never say so, so instead they explain how such things are beneath them, and get even more upset when around your girlfriend, since you're making him insane with envy.

- Your GM really doesn't want any closeness with another person, which is sometimes harmless but more often, especially at your age, a sign of mental instability and/or illness, especially if they also cannot, for example, feel empathy, like a sociopath.

I suggest you spend more time with your girlfriend and less time with this natural 1. Also, see if you can find a fencing club (foil or epee especially) and start learning about basic swordplay that doesn't involve katanas, just because this will infuriate him. Does he have a rack of katanas on his wall, by any chance, that he never bothered to learn about wielding, with actual exercises?

I try not to assume that about anyone; I've known enough well-adjusted, awesome people all along every conceivable spectrum of social interaction to think it's any sort marker for anything. Some people really do want to be alone.

And I do try to spend as much time with her as I can, but usually she's not in town.

Unfortunately our college doesn't allow weapons in dorms, but...I can think of worse reasons to get back into fencing. Much as I love sabre (I used it as ersatz physical therapy for fine motor skill issues, way back when, although llehctim's farther into it than ever I was), you're right that one of the ones you can't slash with is probably better suited to our secondary purpose here. Epee, maybe?

EDIT: Crud, I just realized why he wanted Kevlar so cuttable. So katanas can still have AP 2. And cut through bulletproof vests (and chainmail, if I'm remembering its DR correctly) like butter.

Alejandro

2013-04-01, 11:26 PM

I try not to assume that about anyone; I've known enough well-adjusted, awesome people all along every conceivable spectrum of social interaction to think it's any sort marker for anything. Some people really do want to be alone.

And I do try to spend as much time with them as I can, but usually they're not in town.

Unfortunately our college doesn't allow weapons in dorms, but...I can think of worse reasons to get back into fencing. Much as I love sabre (I used it as ersatz physical therapy for fine motor skill issues, way back when, although llehctim's farther into it than ever I was), you're right that one of the ones you can't slash with is probably better suited to our secondary purpose here. Epee, maybe?

Sure! With a good bell guard. And you can fleche with it. Not quite the same. :)

P.S. Your GM is a Jenga game of self righteous doucheblocks, and it's only a matter of time before enough of them are pulled out, and the tower falls.

Deffers

2013-04-01, 11:28 PM

"Jenga game of self-righteous doucheblocks?" Someone hand Alejandro a Pulitzer. No, wait, a Hugo!

When you finally mock Ao-Sue, Trekkin, there's a sick burn pre-made for you right there.

Geostationary

2013-04-01, 11:47 PM

"Jenga game of self-righteous doucheblocks?" Someone hand Alejandro a Pulitzer. No, wait, a Hugo!

When you finally mock Ao-Sue, Trekkin, there's a sick burn pre-made for you right there.

Clearly you must now integrate Dread into the game, so that as the DM does terrible things, you pull out blocks from the Jenga tower. When it topples, something involving Henderson Blend happens.

Trekkin

2013-04-02, 12:03 AM

"Jenga game of self-righteous doucheblocks?" Someone hand Alejandro a Pulitzer. No, wait, a Hugo!

When you finally mock Ao-Sue, Trekkin, there's a sick burn pre-made for you right there.

It does have a certain Homestuck portmanteau vibe to it.

Honestly, I'm starting to think the best descriptor for this phase of the campaign is "Haruhi Suzimiya, the Tenth Doctor, the reprogrammed T-800 Terminator, and Jade Harley fight an omnipotent Inner Party as run by a cyborg gestalt of Friend Computer and Jenna Silverblade", so it works in more senses than I'd realized.

EDIT: And going back through...the constant frustration of our efforts has meant the PCs have never actually killed a human being. Just eldritch horrors. Without ever saying anything we've all been at least technical pacifists.

Sith_Happens

2013-04-02, 12:04 AM

Decades of warfare, and standard-issue military firearms (which DM-canonically use titanium metallic glass self-sharpening kinetic energy penetrators now) still can't beat Kevlar plates. But a knife can.

IIRC from reading about it once, this actually is sort of the case, just not nearly to the extent that he thinks.

Gavinfoxx

2013-04-02, 12:27 AM

That's why you have to get that body armor that is also made to resist ice picks and cutting and knives and such. It's made differently than normal kevlar armor... it actually DOES include chainmail! Also, chainmail is very resistant to cutting/slicing, and anti shark armor should perhaps exist? that's just a suit of chainmail, really. Also, chainmail IS part of stab-resistant armor... It's also used by butchers who interact with meat-packing equipment, and animal control officers use it. It also has use by scientists to act as a faraday cage, and to test for RF leakage, and for some types of electrical workers (again, acting as a faraday cage).

So, people who have chainmail:
-Police officers using knife resistant armor
-Divers
-Butchers
-Animal control officers
-Scientists who need a personal faraday cage

Also, in a world where you can make meat in a vat in the shape you want... there would still be butchers, because that makes real actual raised meat a luxury item!

Trekkin

2013-04-02, 12:38 AM

That's why you have to get that body armor that is also made to resist ice picks and cutting. It's made differently than normal kevlar armor... also, chainmail is very resistant to cutting/slicing, and anti shark armor should perhaps exist? that's just a suit of chainmail, really. Also, chainmail IS part of stab-resistant armor... It's also used by butchers who interact with meat-packing equipment, and animal control officers use it.

"Given how easily katanas can cut through it, not really."

I tried, a while ago.

I wasn't trying to force that Kevlar should be immune to knives, just that it should take a bit more effort than a guy with a pocketknife should be able to manage casually.

TuggyNE

2013-04-02, 12:42 AM

"Given how easily katanas can cut through it, not really."

I tried, a while ago.

I wasn't trying to force that Kevlar should be immune to knives, just that it should take a bit more effort than a guy with a pocketknife should be able to manage casually.

So, because wondrous katanas can cut through armor, therefore so can pocketknives? :smallconfused:

Oh, oh right, I forgot to turn off my logic at the door, sorry. :smallsigh:

Deffers

2013-04-02, 12:46 AM

Trekkin, I'm wonderin' somethin'-- would you describe your GM as a happy person surrounded by supportive family?

...'Cos if not, I'd at least keep an eye on him after you shatter his world to little tiny bits. I mean, his douche-Jenga tower is so hugemongous it's undeniable, but we don't want him doing something drastic like throwing a brick through your window or stabbing you. Or, hell, hurting himself.

Public humiliation will do weird things to a person.

Trekkin

2013-04-02, 12:47 AM

So, because wondrous katanas can cut through armor, therefore so can pocketknives? :smallconfused:

Oh, oh right, I forgot to turn off my logic at the door, sorry. :smallsigh:

That, and because katana technology is superior, literally every knife in the setting is made with it, making them wonderful magic superknives.

Swiss Army pocketkatanas have no trouble with Kevlar fibers, naturally. Still, only the optimally shaped curved sword can truly capitalize on the million-fold magic metal, so only it gets the armor-piercing and damage comparable to a light machine gun.

EDIT: and Deffers, his family is has always seemed nice to me, and almost anomalously supportive. I'll keep an eye on him though.

Deffers

2013-04-02, 12:52 AM

Oh! Good. In that case, probably they'll end up hating you, but it's cool.

'S long as he's not the least crazy one out of his clan. Then you might just want to change countries. :smalltongue:

I mean, TBH, this is probably going to be a very, very painful, very, very necessary learning experience for him. Dunno how painful, but being mocked by four people, all at once isn't gonna be pleasant, that's for sure.

I wonder if his parents bought into that Indigo Child stuff. That might literally explain everything.

Trekkin

2013-04-02, 01:05 AM

I wonder if his parents bought into that Indigo Child stuff. That might literally explain everything.

Wait for the backstory. Just...just wait. If there's a form of woo out there he hasn't heard of, I haven't yet found it, and I expect even if the DM himself isn't an indigo crystal rainbow child, the Ao-Sue will have been, and the (orphaned) seventh son of a seventh son of a seventh son to boot.

Not that it will be called that, or that it will get a mention in edgewise, what with all the seers queuing up with their prophecies.

Ashtagon

2013-04-02, 01:44 AM

If you can speak to his family privately away from him, could you ask (politely) if he has a history of mental health issues?

Arbane

2013-04-02, 01:54 AM

That, and because katana technology is superior, literally every knife in the setting is made with it, making them wonderful magic superknives.

*FACEPALM x2 COMBO*

Cthulhutech has giant robots, right? How's their Katana Resistance stat?

Trekkin

2013-04-02, 01:54 AM

If you can speak to his family privately away from him, could you ask (politely) if he has a history of mental health issues?

I don't think I can. They usually stick together very closely whenever they're here, and I don't have any way of contacting them otherwise.

Besides, they would probably tell him. He and they evidently talk quite a bit.

EDIT: And Arbane: His mechanics for combatants of varying sizes mean it's tricky, since we do 1/5th damage to mecha-scale objects and they do 5x damage to us on top of similar strength and DR multipliers.

I get the sense that the twelve-foot 'hyperedge' katana I've been previously informed they carry are fairly effective, though.

Deophaun

2013-04-02, 03:15 AM

Trekkin

2013-04-02, 05:01 AM

I just had to start reading this on April Fools Day...

I think (if I weren't of the mind to simply walk and wanted to just mess with the guy), my approach would be to get together with the other players, behave through the whole game, and then, when Awesome Katana Guy appears, one of us would respond.

"My character looks at him and says 'I'm not impressed.' The man wielding the katanas dissolves into nothingness."

At that point, the other three players fawn over how awesome it was that the PC just took out a god of 7200 universes with a mere three words, and didn't even need to roll a die to do it. None of us would pay attention to the putative DM's objections, and we'd all agree that it was an impressive ending to the campaign. Then we'd crowd around another pre-determined player, and have him describe how the story arcs all resolved, and the laws of physics were reinstated.

But, I figure this guy is mentally unstable, and having his creation hijacked and being pushed out of any sort of narrative control, and witnessing the summary execution of his alter ego in the coup would do un-good things to him, and possibly people in his immediate vicinity.

Well, we're working on The Speech. The big one, delivered as soon as Ao-Sue pops up and we're done laughing. Initially done, anyway.

At present, point one is that the Ao-Sue is so ridiculous he can't exist, because if coming to possess godlike power were so easy the unpowered Sue could do it, it would have been done long ago by a wiser entity with the good sense to stop that sort of thing going on, or else a legion of worthier people would have done it. Ergo, the existence of the Ao-Sue disproves the Ao-Sue.

There's a lot more, and I'm working on writing it in the kind of bizarre humor I'm reasonably good at so that the one player we haven't taken into our confidence yet can grasp what we're going for. Also just for the sake of keeping everyone entertained as we go, because this is going to be long by the time we're done. It doesn't matter where it's IC or OoC either; the Ao-Sue's ascent began whan a DM expy realized they were in an RPG, and our very own player expy just told me the same thing, whether or not he knows it yet. So we can cover everything at once.

In a very slight modification of the consensus suggestion, my best plan for running the campaign into collapse is to filibuster the Overgod's arrival with his own unsolicited comedy roast.

Okay, so it's my only plan. It's still a plan, albeit one reliant on caffeinating one player heavily enough that they get into a peculiar cognitive mode of theirs where everything is hilarious. I need a laugh track.

Arbane

2013-04-02, 05:46 AM

The fundamental problem is that kevlar is a real thing that we actually know things about.

(SNIP)

When you make the setting the real world, you bring in the quite reasonable assumption that real things work the way they really do. If you want to make up physics as you go, the game should be set in Narnia or something.

Yet another reason this guy's 'universal system' will sink without a trace. Real game designers do their research. (For an example, see GURPS and its six million sourcebooks on every conceivable setting.) This guy's just intellectually lazy.

EDIT: and Deffers, his family is has always seemed nice to me, and almost anomalously supportive. I'll keep an eye on him though.

They probably think you're his only friend, or pretty close to it. He doesn't sound like the kind of guy who makes friends easily.

Well, we're working on The Speech. The big one, delivered as soon as Ao-Sue pops up and we're done laughing. Initially done, anyway.

At present, point one is that the Ao-Sue is so ridiculous he can't exist, because if coming to possess godlike power were so easy the unpowered Sue could do it, it would have been done long ago by a wiser entity with the good sense to stop that sort of thing going on, or else a legion of worthier people would have done it. Ergo, the existence of the Ao-Sue disproves the Ao-Sue.

(SNIP)

Okay, so it's my only plan. It's still a plan, albeit one reliant on caffeinating one player heavily enough that they get into a peculiar cognitive mode of theirs where everything is hilarious. I need a laugh track.

Your Fermi Paradox of God Mode Sues sounds like a plan to me. I like the 'and THEN hijack the GM-hood as Ao-Sue disappears in a puff of logic and sanity is restored (as much as it can be in a Cthulhuverse)' addition that's been suggested, though.

Edit to add: Someone needs to inform your GM that any 5-year-old can create a powerful character, but creating an INTERESTING one takes talent. Talent he's consistently failed to display. So his Ao-Sue's obviously not qualified for his position. Also, the fact that you guys remember his retcons means that YOU must have Weird Time Powarz, too! Then roll for initiative, because he's going down.
And see if you can work in the phrase "I reject your reality and substitute my own!" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W8qcccZy03s), too. :smallbiggrin:

Please, PLEASE be sure to record all this for posterity. For SCIENCE! But most importantly, for our amusement. :smallbiggrin:

Alejandro

2013-04-02, 07:17 AM

This guy is going to be hilarious when he either finishes or drops out of college. Right now he can get away with it, since he's in an artificial and supportive world. (spoiler note for you, Trekkin: Once out of college, the world is a 180 degree sea change, and maybe 10% at most of the population will care about anything you did there, including your degree, with the exception of employers recognizing that you stuck with it to completion.)

But once college is over, he'll enter a world that gives less than 1 micron about him, or his stupid ideas. The fact that, as you say, he considers himself above 'banal' close relationships will just make more people despise him. If I might ask, what is he studying at college? Please don't tell me it's Japanese history or something like that.

With any luck, he will melt down harder than a nuclear reactor being renovated by Bert and Ernie, and you can watch the fireworks from a safe distance.

comicshorse

2013-04-02, 07:40 AM

I wonder if his parents bought into that Indigo Child stuff. That might literally explain everything.

What on earth is that ?

Trekkin

2013-04-02, 07:50 AM

maxriderules

2013-04-02, 07:54 AM

@comicshorse

Indigo children are a new age thing where the children are supposedly 'special', IE more sensitive and creative ETC than other children, right the way up to being psychic. Basically, a way to bring up a child thinking they're better than everyone else and not really believing in science; after all, science says they're normal.

Mr.D

2013-04-02, 07:57 AM

Geordnet

2013-04-02, 08:03 AM

What on earth is that ?
Wikipedia is your friend. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigo_children)

From the looks of it, it's a quack theory on par with Homeopathy. Basically, it says kids with any sort of mental disability or even orneriness probably have high IQs, psychic powers, etc. contrary to any actual observations.

Basically, it takes the "needs" out of "special needs". Which is really a tragedy once you think about it, since now those kids won't get the help they require... :smallfrown:

EDIT:
I feel this somewhat personally, since I know I would have turned out very differently if I didn't have as supporting a mother as I did. In fact, I don't doubt that I could have turned out exactly like Chief Circle here... :smalleek:

maxriderules

2013-04-02, 08:05 AM

@mr.d

It does, but that's no reason to hate it. People sometimes think of d&d as cultish. Of course, indigo children are inflicted on the rest of the world, and they're usually pretty screwed up by their upbringing. So there's that.

Sith_Happens

2013-04-02, 08:07 AM

That, and because katana technology is superior, literally every knife in the setting is made with it, making them wonderful magic superknives.

Wait, so every bladed implement in the setting is handcrafted via a meticulous process taking years to master and weeks to perform (since it's obvious that a nanofabricator could never replicate the sort of quality possible through traditional Japanese swordsmithing*)? At least in that case I'm sure they're commensurately rare and expensive, such that cutting shouldn't be a regular problem for your nets.

* Indigo text represents things your GM may or may not say, depending on whether his stupidity leans more strongly towards "katana superiority/general Japanophilia" or "don't let my players succeed at anything."

This guy is going to be hilarious when he either finishes or drops out of college.

Apparently he's already working. As an aeronautics engineer.:smalleek:

EDIT: Ninja'd and corrected. Previous posts made it sound like he was already out of college and working, but apparently not.

What on earth is that?

Just your typical New Age-y "my child is (pre-Academy) River Tam" stuff. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigo_children):smallsigh:

EDIT: Ninja'd on this too.

Alejandro

2013-04-02, 08:08 AM

He's studying aeronautical engineering.

And yes, I'm aware we're all about to enter a world where no one cares about us or what we spent the last four years working ourselves half to death doing, even though most of us already think we live in such a world. Very aware of that. It's...not a particularly pleasant thought. But a necessary one.

You'll do fine, since you already know what to expect. If he's going to be an engineer, then (surprisingly) he will need at least decent people skills, since engineers are often expected to convey why and how plans and ideas are possible or not. Unfortunately, it sounds like he has an F in people skills.

If you know how to rent an apartment that isn't a dump, do your taxes, cook at least a few things, vote, and manage money without losing it all or going into massive credit card debt, you will be ahead of at least 50% of your peers.

Trekkin

2013-04-02, 08:38 AM

Apparently he's already working. As an aeronautics engineer.:smalleek:

EDIT: Ninja'd and corrected. Previous posts made it sound like he was already out of college and working, but apparently not.

Out of college no, working maybe. Depending on when you ask him, he has either an internship or a job any one of right now, ready when he graduates, or "in the bag".

Do I even need to point out how his employment gets better the more worried the rest of us get about finding jobs?

Or the more sore I get that, as a result primarily of missing filing deadlines, I'm stuck working as a lab tech for a year instead of going to grad school, come to think of it.

Grr.

Anyway- The question of the merits of various sorts of katana fabrication is an interesting one. Now, back when I ran eclipse phase, we'd worked out a fairly sensible fractal assembly method and what it could or couldn't do, so I assumed we were working with something more primitive than that but along the same lines, since it's a fairly comprehensible system and an alternative needs a fair bit of math redone.

Nah. We're working with full-on Star Trek replicators, because Infinite Clean Free Energy means you can laser-cool the nanites infinitely and fire them countless perfectly calibrated matter streams without them crossing and move them fast enough to make fractal fabrication a pointless exercise (besides, it would weaken the blades). Now, apparently, this can also make a fairly good replica of the folded blade, but hand-made is still better.

Because, you know, no one ever scanned some awesome handmade blade to make an exact molecular replica. For some reason.

Really, I can't blame him entirely for this. Cthulhutech nanotech was another of those necessary enabling technologies for mecha, so it's deliberately not explained and the authors ask you in a sidebar to ignore any issues you may have with that.

"After all, CthulhuTech is about far more interesting things than whether or not you can construct a shovel from the molecular level on up." - CT core rulebook, page 109.
I'd love to know what they are, but whatever.

jindra34

2013-04-02, 08:58 AM

More interesting? Like preventing THE END OF THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT? Or is that simply more important?

Alejandro

2013-04-02, 09:03 AM

Out of college no, working maybe. Depending on when you ask him, he has either an internship or a job any one of right now, ready when he graduates, or "in the bag".

Congratulate him, and ask him where it is/what company, so you can read about it. My guess is he'll act mysterious or accuse you of trying to steal his potential job. Because he has none.

So far, my assessment of this person I have never met is:

- Is Wapanese, especially the definition of feeling that all Western cultures or ideas are always inferior to Japanese ones, having a unhealthy obsession with katanas (and probably anime or manga) and possibly a desire to live in Japan, feeling that they would be extremely welcomed and happy there (and not knowing or caring that many parts of Japanese culture are insular and racist towards foreigners.)

- Has extreme self esteem issues, causing them to manipulate all situations and games so that they are always right, awesome, smartest, etc. This also relates to their not wanting a 'banal' personal relationship; they aren't ready for or can't handle the responsibility of being in a relationship with someone else, which will often require one to admit they were wrong or compromise with someone else who is

- Has extreme control issues, based in their poor self esteem. This has been demonstrated to insanely hilarious heights through the lens of being a GM, as you basically have no player agency in their game; they're just feeding their esteem and control issues by using you as their audience for 'how awesome and right they are.'

Recommended treatment:

- take nothing in the 'game' seriously, especially the Ao-Sue as you are calling it. Pointing and laughing works. Do nothing that feeds the GM's ego, and instead actively challenge it. This will help prep for...

- expose them to real world situations that break 'their world.' The best one will be their leaving college and having to function on their own, with other people that don't care about his katana fantasies. Barring that, I suggest you try this: Have a friend set up an email address that looks like it might be someone who works at Paizo. Tell the GM that a friend of a friend you know that is affiliated with Paizo was told about his astonishing game, and they are interested in possibly buying out his idea. Let him correspond with the premade 'Paizo rep' email address for a while, and share the results with us if possible. Especially if the 'Paizo rep' asks for a review copy.

Trekkin

2013-04-02, 09:03 AM

More interesting? Like preventing THE END OF THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT? Or is that simply more important?

Well, okay, you have a point. :smalltongue: I guess nanotech just piques my curiosity in an idiosyncratic way.

EDIT: And I've been considering doing the Paizo thing you suggest, Alejandro, except impersonating an actual company seems...inadvisable for a variety of reasons. If I can do it without fraud, though...

Perhaps I'll claim to be a gaming startup.

Deffers

2013-04-02, 09:16 AM

Yeah, I'd skip on the impersonation thing. Personal experience says that's always just a bridge too far. Stick to laughing at the Ao Sue and letting life happen to him.

Trekkin

2013-04-02, 09:17 AM

Yeah, I'd skip on the impersonation thing. Personal experience says that's always just a bridge too far. Stick to laughing at the Ao Sue and letting life happen to him.

Yeah. It wouldn't go very far anyway; he'd probably want to be paid before submitting a review copy, come to think of it. Amusing thought, though.

Alejandro

2013-04-02, 09:28 AM

You're probably right. I'm just a glutton for relentless torture of the deserving. :smallbiggrin:

Arranis Thelmos

2013-04-02, 10:06 AM

Is there anyway you can record your sessions? If you have an iDevice you can get the Supernote Free app from the App Store.

Trekkin

2013-04-02, 10:41 AM

Is there anyway you can record your sessions? If you have an iDevice you can get the Supernote Free app from the App Store.

I'm doubtful I can get his consent to record, but we usually play with laptops out, so there's no technological hurdle.

Heck, with his consent, we can break out my friend's studio mic and do this in reasonably high fidelity.

maxriderules

2013-04-02, 11:25 AM

Wouldn't have thought your DM would pass up the chance to have the whole Internet witness his katanalord's rise to tyranny.

Joe the Rat

2013-04-02, 11:25 AM

I think I went to school with this guy. Whatever thing it is you're talking about, he has a better story/experience/plan, or it's not important. Does he try to dominate the spotlight as a player as well?

But that's water under the bridge.

I think you're missing something vitally important. with the ubiquity of the stress-fold blade-smithing, you really ought to save yourself some time and start making everything out of nano-tamahagane forged razors and short blades and cleavers and whatnot. Make armor out of katanas. Have mini-katana-chakram ringmail. A gun - A gun that shoots katanas. Katana chainsaws, in the shape of a katana with little katana teeth. Describe every vaguely flat or edged metal thing as being some form of katana. Make katana an adjective. Get to the point that everyone is sick of it, then mention that you find the curve on the older tachi better for finesse (because older must be better, right?). Katana.

llehctim

2013-04-02, 11:30 AM

The other issue with the recording being, I suspect that several members of the party might object to their names being associated with this, and we do use our names fairly often in the sessions. Although I suppose there might be a way to censor the names out, but I don't claim to be a technological genius.

EDIT: also yes to some degree he would tend to try to take spotlight as a player, and anything where it wasn't directly tied to his character he ignored. He played a former mafia boss, and got miffed when people were hostile towards his character because of it because iirc he was reasonable in his dealings and not evil like most crime lords or some such, long story, but I do feel bad about my actions in that campaign.

maxriderules

2013-04-02, 11:35 AM

You could use a program like audacity to cut out the audio at pertinent points, iirc. Had to cut swear words out of a song and did it that way.

Trekkin

2013-04-02, 11:40 AM

EDIT: also yes to some degree he would tend to try to take spotlight as a player, and anything where it wasn't directly tied to his character he ignored. He played a former mafia boss, and got miffed when people were hostile towards his character because of it because iirc he was reasonable in his dealings and not evil like most crime lords or some such, long story, but I do feel bad about my actions in that campaign.

Man, what IS it with you guys and organized crime? I never noticed it, but it's quite the pattern. Then again, since he started it, it may just be him molding you guys into lesser versions of him...

And yes, if we do record (which we can do apparently), I'll bleep out names. I make no promises about not splicing in heavily biased replacements, though.

llehctim

2013-04-02, 11:57 AM

Man, what IS it with you guys and organized crime? I never noticed it, but it's quite the pattern. Then again, since he started it, it may just be him molding you guys into lesser versions of him...

And yes, if we do record (which we can do apparently), I'll bleep out names. I make no promises about not splicing in heavily biased replacements, though.

Worth noting the crime thing was all our sniper wanting to "be part of the russian mafia" as his sole contribution towards our setting criteria
I have not been related to the organized crime (directly) as any of my characters (in this game, I did have some in deadlands, but I had like 10+ different deadlands chars so not entirely surprising)

Geostationary

2013-04-02, 01:37 PM

I think you're missing something vitally important. with the ubiquity of the stress-fold blade-smithing, you really ought to save yourself some time and start making everything out of nano-tamahagane forged razors and short blades and cleavers and whatnot. Make armor out of katanas. Have mini-katana-chakram ringmail. A gun - A gun that shoots katanas. Katana chainsaws, in the shape of a katana with little katana teeth. Describe every vaguely flat or edged metal thing as being some form of katana. Make katana an adjective. Get to the point that everyone is sick of it, then mention that you find the curve on the older tachi better for finesse (because older must be better, right?). Katana.

1. Take swords from Katanagatari (http://katanagatari.wikia.com/wiki/Deviant_Blades)
2. Produce all technology using similar means (i.e., absurd swords that do the impossible)
3. ???
4. Profit

Trekkin

2013-04-02, 03:25 PM

1. Take swords from Katanagatari (http://katanagatari.wikia.com/wiki/Deviant_Blades)
2. Produce all technology using similar means (i.e., absurd swords that do the impossible)
3. ???
4. Profit

Doing the impossible you say? How about beyond the impossible?

Because I think I know what weapon we're going to end up using against the onslought of katanas.

Drills.

Because the solution to Spiral Power not existing is, as Sith_Happens noted, more spiral power, and it's more than funny enough to work.

And really, who the hell does he think we are?

llehctim

2013-04-02, 03:55 PM

Doing the impossible you say? How about beyond the impossible?

Because I think I know what weapon we're going to end up using against the onslought of katanas.

Drills.

Because the solution to Spiral Power not existing is, as Sith_Happens noted, more spiral power, and it's more than funny enough to work.

And really, who the hell does he think we are?

Also If I've learned anything from playing Summon Night, its that drills have good durability and are the best at blocking/breaking the enemies weapons.
EDIT: I don't think the fire ladle will be allowed though

Waspinator

2013-04-02, 04:12 PM

Yet another reason this guy's 'universal system' will sink without a trace. Real game designers do their research. (For an example, see GURPS and its six million sourcebooks on every conceivable setting.) This guy's just intellectually lazy.

Yeah, GURPS is a good example. If you want to simulate everything accurately, it takes a lot of math.

Oh, and for the email ideas, I suggest making a new email account and pretend to be him from another reality.

Trekkin

2013-04-02, 05:47 PM

Is it sinking if the setting never surfaces?

I feel like I may have failed to express the depth of this guy's lack of comprehension of the industry. We were discussing it once, post- some con where he attended a panel of some type on RPGs as an industry, and he mentioned that he'd decided that"the first thing I'm going to demand from the publisher (!?) is total creative control". I asked what he meant by that, once the disbelief died down.

He doesn't mean what those words mean, you see. That would be only mostly insane. He means he wants his work put directly into print without ever seeing an editor, let alone another contributor. That's his starting point for 'negotiating'.

He literally wants the first thing he's ever written for publication to pass unchanged from his hands onto bookstore shelves. After he's been paid for it.

Not that he doesn't want royalties on top of that, of course.

I was fairly firmly under the impression that's not at all how this works, but he's convinced.

So if emailing him as an 'interested publisher' is ever a thing that happens, it will be an uphill fight to see a review copy without spending "five, six figures minimum".

Arbane

2013-04-02, 05:58 PM

So if emailing him as an 'interested publisher' is ever a thing that happens, it will be an uphill fight to see a review copy without spending "five, six figures minimum".

He _might be able to get that, if all the figures to the left of the decimal point are zeroes.

Wow. He doesn't have even the faintest clue about the RPG 'industry', does he? (Like most creative jobs, working at a 7-11 will pay better for 90% of the people in it.)

Big Fau

2013-04-02, 06:17 PM

He literally wants the first thing he's ever written for publication to pass unchanged from his hands onto bookstore shelves. After he's been paid for it.

...Your DM's name isn't Byron Hall (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/TabletopGame/FATAL?from=Main.FATAL), is it?

Waspinator

2013-04-02, 06:22 PM

Wow. He really knows nothing about the publishing industry. Does he think they'll be so blinded by his brilliance that they'll basically fund him for free?

The Glyphstone

2013-04-02, 07:14 PM

Wow. He really knows nothing about the publishing industry. Does he think they'll be so blinded by his brilliance that they'll basically fund him for free?

At what point in this delightful train wreck of schadenfreude did you expect his understanding of publishing and economics to be greater than his understanding of anything else in existence?

Geordnet

2013-04-02, 07:25 PM

Wow. He really knows nothing about the publishing industry. Does he think they'll be so blinded by his brilliance that they'll basically fund him for free?
No...

I think he thinks that they'll pay to be the ones to publish his 'brilliance'. :smalleek:

Waspinator

2013-04-02, 07:37 PM

Aren't first-time authors usually lucky to have ANY creative control?

TuggyNE

2013-04-02, 07:45 PM

Aren't first-time authors usually lucky to have ANY creative control?

More to the point, first-time authors are lucky to have someone even skim their summaries, never mind their actual work, never mind really reading it.

Trekkin

2013-04-02, 08:52 PM

No...

I think he thinks that they'll pay to be the ones to publish his 'brilliance'. :smalleek:

And pay well. He basically treats publishing as a black box operation. Just put work in the slot and hit 'go' to engage the cash volcanoes.

What really irks me is when he has the gall to suggest maybe he could 'help' with my work, because he 'knows a few things about getting published'.

Because clearly, when the editorial board of Science* look over submissions, the first thing they check for is sufficiently potent stats for katanas and a 'badass' racial class.

*completely unrealistic hyperbole by design. I leave the ludicrous arrogance to him.

Arbane

2013-04-02, 09:17 PM

And pay well. He basically treats publishing as a black box operation. Just put work in the slot and hit 'go' to engage the cash volcanoes.

What really irks me is when he has the gall to suggest maybe he could 'help' with my work, because he 'knows a few things about getting published'.

BWA HA HA HA HAH

Because I am a bad person, I'm going to suggest you suggest he go into self-publishing.

I'm also going to recommend you suggest he look up Yog's Law (http://howpublishingreallyworks.blogspot.com/2008/06/yogs-law.html). Partly because I try not to be a TOTALLY bad person, but mostly because I am CERTAIN he won't pay any attention to it and later I (or you) will get to say we told him so after he gets fleeced.

(I dislike vanity presses, but right now I dislike your GM a LOT more.)

Because clearly, when the editorial board of Science* look over submissions, the first thing they check for is sufficiently potent stats for katanas and a 'badass' racial class.

*snicker*.

Deffers

2013-04-02, 09:31 PM

I still recommend against letting this guy ruin himself through his own hubris. A devil's work nets a devil's wages, etc. don't do bad things to people even if they deserve it. Tearing his campaign apart is OK because, really, it's just a game and it'll at least make the time sink worth it for Trekkin. Letting this guy spend thousands of bucks on a vanity publishing, that's...

And, I mean... I dunno... vanity publishers and this guy... I think past a certain level of terrible there's no clear worst choice.

EDIT: Wow, that was an important half of a sentence to miss.

Deophaun

2013-04-02, 09:56 PM

Does his system have a name? If not, I propose STUpendous.

Trekkin

2013-04-02, 10:15 PM

It does have a name, and the name is...fitting. I just don't want to put it down in case he Googles his various things regularly.

137beth

2013-04-02, 10:36 PM

Okay, I just read the first two pages...in my dorm...and trying not to creep out everyone in my hall because this is way too funny:smallbiggrin:

Now I need to read the rest...
Anyways, assuming the stuff in the first two pages hasn't been resolved (which I will find out soon...) just charge attack the DM-uber character and declare it your mortal enemy...

This is officially my new favorite thread:smallsmile:

Alejandro

2013-04-02, 10:50 PM

Trekkin

2013-04-02, 11:36 PM

I really wish we had just 5 minutes of secretly recorded video of one of your games. Or just 10 minutes of audio of you having a conversation with him about publishing game design.

Oh, and you can share the name of this 'system' with us without him ever knowing. Just write it backwards and we'll figure it out. :)

Why, so I can.

It's called sdlrowmaerD.

In a very pretty script font, by the way. At least it was before he decided vector graphics were for fools and just enlarged rasterized text into a blocky mess...

Waspinator

2013-04-02, 11:45 PM

Are you sure the world isn't a nightmare?

Arbane

2013-04-02, 11:45 PM

Why, so I can.

It's called sdlrowmaerD.

If you can get the GM to say that out loud, will Ao-Sue have to go back to his home dimension for 90 days?

In a very pretty script font, by the way. At least it was before he decided vector graphics were for fools and just enlarged rasterized text into a blocky mess...

So, he really is a sort of Renaissance Man - he's bad at _everything_.

Malrone

2013-04-02, 11:49 PM

Waspinator

2013-04-02, 11:53 PM

Typing that title into Google gets me some documentary about sex in music videos....

Tiki Snakes

2013-04-02, 11:59 PM

I doubt a name as, well, overused as that would register this thread to a search engine. It might as well have been called Adventure Quests or some such (a mistake someone on my campus had apparently made before).

Such hubris, this one. I am beginning to harken back to the heavy handed morality of a greek tragedy. Pride always results in the hardest falls.

You'd be surprised. This forum seems to have insane rating-power in google's rankings.

Eisenfavl

2013-04-03, 12:23 AM

You'd be surprised. This forum seems to have insane rating-power in google's rankings.

No.
No it does not.

I'm surprised you don't know that googles scales thing by the sites you have been on recently. Clear your cache and try again.

Tiki Snakes

2013-04-03, 12:32 AM

No.
No it does not.

I'm surprised you don't know that googles scales thing by the sites you have been on recently. Clear your cache and try again.

Well, sure. But I've toyed with it before, and at the very least it indexes it very quickly and thoroughly, even allowing for Google's weird decision to show you were you have been rather than necessarily what you are actually searching for.

llehctim

2013-04-03, 12:34 AM

I doubt a name as, well, overused as that would register this thread to a search engine. It might as well have been called Adventure Quests or some such (a mistake someone on my campus had apparently made before).

Such hubris, this one. I am beginning to harken back to the heavy handed morality of a greek tragedy. Pride always results in the hardest falls.

The irony of this statement is I have been consistently playing Adventure quest in session for quite a while. I think I'm level 116+ at this point, remarkably amusing for a flash game.

Ashtagon

2013-04-03, 12:44 AM

More to the point, first-time authors are lucky to have someone even skim their summaries, never mind their actual work, never mind really reading it.

This. It took me years of trying for anyone to even notice I had something. They skimmed it and tossed it. So now I'm trying again with a new idea.

TuggyNE

2013-04-03, 12:56 AM

So, he really is a sort of Renaissance Man - he's bad at _everything_.

What do you call a lousy Renaissance Man, anyway? Declination Man? Dark Age Man?

Or perhaps just go Yiddish and say "schlemiel".

Arbane

2013-04-03, 01:00 AM

What do you call a lousy Renaissance Man, anyway? Declination Man? Dark Age Man?

"Bloody Stupid Johnson" springs to mind, as I'm a big Terry Pratchett fan.
("Dark Age Man" would work here, given The Chief Circle's aversion to science.)

Edit to add: I've been re-reading this thread, and I just remembered that Charlie Stross's "Laundry" books are also about Beleagured Bureaucrats vs. Cthulhu, only written by someone who isn't completely terrible. Might be worth checking out...

Waspinator

2013-04-03, 01:05 AM

Renaissance Finger-Painter?

Fortuna

2013-04-03, 01:07 AM

"Bloody Stupid Johnson" springs to mind, as I'm a big Terry Pratchett fan.
("Dark Age Man" would work here, given The Chief Circle's aversion to science.)

Dark Age man is, I think, better than BSJ. The thing about BSJ is that he made mistakes not merely entertaining and exaggerated but far beyond what any sane man could have produced if they tried. Bergholt invented the wheel for which pi=3. Bergholt discovered that sand+water=BOOM. Bergholt Stuttley Johnson created an entire street in which the laws of geometry simply don't apply. BadDM may be amusing, but he's no BSJ.

TuggyNE

2013-04-03, 01:33 AM

Dark Age man is, I think, better than BSJ. The thing about BSJ is that he made mistakes not merely entertaining and exaggerated but far beyond what any sane man could have produced if they tried. Bergholt invented the wheel for which pi=3. Bergholt discovered that sand+water=BOOM. Bergholt Stuttley Johnson created an entire street in which the laws of geometry simply don't apply. BadDM may be amusing, but he's no BSJ.

Not unless he Henderson's himself.

Which I would pay good money that I don't have to watch. :smalltongue:

maxriderules

2013-04-03, 01:59 AM

Trekkin

2013-04-03, 02:26 AM

Of course, there is a simple test for a universal system. Can you make 'the invisible man', the luckiest man alive and a cupcake using the chargen? Because from what I've heard, it isn't suited to any games which aren't centred around specific premade races and classes.

Well yes. When he makes his own settings, they aren't very well received. At least in Cthulhutech we aren't living on an infinite plane where the sun sets into the sea every evening.

Arbane

2013-04-03, 02:33 AM

Well yes. When he makes his own settings, they aren't very well received. At least in Cthulhutech we aren't living on an infinite plane where the sun sets into the sea every evening.

Aside from the infinite part, what's so bad about that? Both RuneQuest's Glorantha setting and Exalted's Creation _literally_ have the sun travel across the sky and sink into the ocean at night.

(Also, Exalted's sun can turn into a giant robot, which knows kung-fu. I am not making this up. :smallbiggrin:)

Trekkin

2013-04-03, 02:47 AM

Aside from the infinite part, what's so bad about that? Both RuneQuest's Glorantha setting and Exalted's Creation _literally_ have the sun travel across the sky and sink into the ocean at night.

(Also, Exalted's sun can turn into a giant robot, which knows kung-fu. I am not making this up. :smallbiggrin:)

Mostly that it's exactly the Sun as we understand it, or so I was told, and is still outputting 385 Yottawatts, is now being immersed in seawater somehow, and apparently 'physics hasn't really changed all that much'.

Arbane

2013-04-03, 02:49 AM

Mostly that it's exactly the Sun as we understand it, or so I was told, and is still outputting 385 Yottawatts, is now being immersed in seawater somehow, and apparently 'physics hasn't really changed all that much'.

:smalleek:

Okay, yeah.

Physics and Mythology are not going to mix well in that case.

Trekkin

2013-04-03, 03:08 AM

:smalleek:

Okay, yeah.

Physics and Mythology are not going to mix well in that case.

Yeah. Chief Circle is more willing than most to have science and magic operating right alongside each other in contradictory ways, because "magic is just another part of physics". A completely, definitionally incomprehensible part of physics, the way he runs it; it is magic, therefore it repels math and any attempt at repeatability.

He keeps using that word, physics. I do not think it means what he thinks it means.:smalltongue:

It really wouldn't bother me so much if he didn't keep insisting that I'm wrong whenever I say science doesn't work in whatever setting he was using.

Sith_Happens

2013-04-03, 03:27 AM

Or perhaps just go Yiddish and say "schlemiel".

Guess that makes Trekkin and llehctim the schlimazels.:smalltongue: Actually, a "schlemiel" is a clumsy person, the word you're looking for is one that I'm not sure is forum-kosher. ;)

Yeah. Chief Circle is more willing than most to have science and magic operating right alongside each other in contradictory ways, because "magic is just another part of physics". A completely, definitionally incomprehensible part of physics, the way he runs it; it is magic, therefore it repels math and any attempt at repeatability.

That's actually a more or less accurate description of what magic is in the Champions universe. Specifically, it's the part of physics that tells the rest of physics to chill out and let superpowers be possible.

The New Bruceski

2013-04-03, 03:40 AM

I prefer Sandersonian magic (for lack of a better term, he's really into doing this in his books): magic has rules. You may not KNOW these rules, may only know some of them, or may mistakenly think you know them until something weird happens, but aside from axiomatic foundations like "burning different metals gives different abilities," "everyone has a soul which can be given to others, and the more you have the more you can do" or "storm winds get trapped in gems and some people can consume them to fuel their abilities" saying "it just does" for why something happens is a cop-out.

That's more of an authorial worldbuilding issue rather than one for players though. Exalted basically has an "anything goes" magic system and has crafted a world where, indeed, anything has gone. If you're to the level of being a PC you usually have pretty well defined what you can and cannot do, or at least what the cost of doing it is.

Eldan

2013-04-03, 05:54 AM

Well, since you decided to write it backwards, I will from now on refer to the system as Drow Merde.

Gravitron5000

2013-04-03, 07:26 AM

What do you call a lousy Renaissance Man, anyway? Declination Man? Dark Age Man?

Or perhaps just go Yiddish and say "schlemiel".

Captain Cave Man!

Scow2

2013-04-03, 08:07 AM

Well, since you decided to write it backwards, I will from now on refer to the system as Drow Merde.

I don't think he wrote it backwards.

Alejandro

2013-04-03, 08:49 AM

Why is he studying aeronautical engineering, if he wants to dethrone existing game publishing companies and be a famous RPG author?

A business fundamentals class would help. Marketing. Economics. A class on publishing and writing would crush him, though, once he found out no one will hand him five figures for his total control, no editors stack of scribble.

Trekkin

2013-04-03, 09:58 AM

I don't think he wrote it backwards.

Oh, I did write it backwards, just out of paranoia.

Drow Merde is an excellent name for it, though.

And Alejandro: I am loath to ask. Questions of major or career tend to lead to a dizzying amount of Chief Circle Economics.

As close as I can tell, because he wants to be as rich as possible.

Which apparently gives him the right to scoff at my choice, because although I love doing science "[I'm] not likely to make very much money squirreled away in a lab all day."

I don't really think he gets the point of it, come to think of it.

Eldan

2013-04-03, 10:52 AM

That's actually a point I hear surprisingly often from non-science students. "Biology? Why?" and "Oh, I study economics. It's boring as hell, but it pays really well."

llehctim

2013-04-03, 11:03 AM

I expect the point is, he doesn't need to get the system published to make a living, so he has no motivation to compromise, since if one already has a job/field, there is no reason to go to a new one unless there is an improvement in some way.

Although on my side, I would probably not publish something, because I don't like it when other people mess with my ideas, even with good intention, which was the primary reason I don't want my setting I made in high school to be used, since I would no enjoy having its flaws pointed out, since its a low magic setting, that also has low tech, it would also be conquered easily based on presumably the logic that someone can be powerful enough that no matter how brilliant the tacticians/ soldiers, a large enough technological gap makes them irrelevant.

Joe the Rat

2013-04-03, 11:37 AM

The most money possible and he went into Aero E?
Chem / Biochem / Chem & Petro or Materials Engineering would do him better. Not to mention that he'd start from a better material reality than what he's cobbled together out of stone knives and bearskins katanas and thinly veiled video game references.

Or, y'know, Economics. But that optimization doesn't come online for a few levels... er, degrees.

I suppose if you really wanted to raise some hackles, your hijinks should abuse some basic principles in fluid mechanics. Since he sort of needs to actually know that. Bonus points if you can get him to explain that lift doesn't work.

Guess that makes Trekkin and llehctim the schlimazels.:smalltongue:
Hasenpfeffer Incorporated.

What?