A bag of rats application that isn't quite so unfair?

[Cogidubnus]

So let's say I am using a homebrew vampire class which has quite demanding rules on feeding - you starve after a few days without blood anyway, and you have to expend some of your stored blood to use any of your abilities. You can't carry bottled blood around with you, or use summoned creatures to feed.

In this case, would anyone think it unreasonable to carry a Bag of Holding worth of rats (with a food source and an air source) to keep oneself topped up? This particular character is a caster and really doesn't want to have to be grappling enemies during combat.

On a side note, how horrifying is the idea of sticking your hand into a bag of live rats?

[Oaktree0]

Yeah it's a worthwhile idea. Still what is limiting this vampire from just bottling the blood? Does it go bad for consumption?

[Kornaki]

If you want to keep a more evil thematic vampire, you can leave level 1 commoners in your bag of holding

[SilverLeaf167]

You're putting quite a bit of money into the bag system and it is still somewhat unreliable, only in order to make your class work properly. Though this might communicate some problems with the class, I personally would allow this. Can you feed on dead bodies (you totally should be able to)? That would probably help a lot, unless the DM only throws you against bloodless enemies.

I really dislike the feeling of skittering on my skin, so I personally would probably never shove my hand in a bag of rats (unless there were some big benefits for it), but I think a bloodthirsty undead creature that needs to do so in order to live wouldn't really mind.

[Cogidubnus]

Yeah it's a worthwhile idea. Still what is limiting this vampire from just bottling the blood? Does it go bad for consumption?

Specifically states it does, sadly.


You're putting quite a bit of money into the bag system and it is still somewhat unreliable, only in order to make your class work properly. Though this might communicate some problems with the class, I personally would allow this. Can you feed on dead bodies (you totally should be able to)? That would probably help a lot, unless the DM only throws you against bloodless enemies.

I really dislike the feeling of skittering on my skin, so I personally would probably never shove my hand in a bag of rats (unless there were some big benefits for it), but I think a bloodthirsty undead creature that needs to do so in order to live wouldn't really mind.

Oh yeah, I'm totally aware of the class flaws, and this character may never see play - it's chiefly just an idea I had. Dead creatures can't be drained, just like stored blood's no good. Personally, I think a bag full of rats is a pretty reliable food source, but y'know.

And the rats would probably bite. Bleurgh.

[dramatic flare]

I would probably rule that recently dead (I.E. just killed in combat by the party) still count as fresh enough for the Vampire's needs. If not, he could just take a weapon or spell which knocks someone out or incapacitates them somehow and feed that way.
Basically, if you feel like it absolutely has to be a living person, and the vampire is a caster, I have a sneaking suspicion that "hold person" is going to be their new favorite spell.

[Cogidubnus]

I would probably rule that recently dead (I.E. just killed in combat by the party) still count as fresh enough for the Vampire's needs. If not, he could just take a weapon or spell which knocks someone out or incapacitates them somehow and feed that way.
Basically, if you feel like it absolutely has to be a living person, and the vampire is a caster, I have a sneaking suspicion that "hold person" is going to be their new favorite spell.

My other option *is* to have a bunch of Dominated commoners carrying my coffin and providing blood.

[Andezzar]

My other option *is* to have a bunch of Dominated commoners carrying my coffin and providing blood.Do the victims usually survive feeding? Do the "blood donors" get anything out of it?

If both are yes, you are bound to find some sick people who find that attractive. If only the latter is no, you will find people desperate enough to do that for money.

I wonder though, why would a creature who is very much in danger of starvation get out of his comfort zone on adventures.

You may be able to avoid the whole problem with a Ring of Sustenance (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/rings.htm#sustenance). But I doubt the DM would allow that.

[Cogidubnus]

Do the victims usually survive feeding? Do the "blood donors" get anything out of it?

If both are yes, you are bound to find some sick people who find that attractive. If only the latter is no, you will find people desperate enough to do that for money.

I wonder though, why would a creature who is very much in danger of starvation get out of his comfort zone on adventures.

You may be able to avoid the whole problem with a Ring of Sustenance (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/rings.htm#sustenance). But I doubt the DM would allow that.

Even if Ring of Sustenance stopped him starving, it wouldn't help with the fact that all of his Vampire abilities burn blood. It's a straight-up CON damage effect, doesn't need to kill anyone (in fact, I wasn't even going to kill the rats. With enough of them by the time you get back to one you've fed on before it'll have healed).

Ed: no, wait, it's Con *drain*. No healing that.

[Andezzar]

Even if Ring of Sustenance stopped him starving, it wouldn't help with the fact that all of his Vampire abilities burn blood.Well, when he needs to use his abilities there should be enemies around to feed on.


Ed: no, wait, it's Con *drain*. No healing that.I would not bother, if it works that way. Play something else.

What does the class even have going for it?

And what is keeping the other characters from simply staking, beheading and burning the bloodsucking fiend?

[molten_dragon]

Specifically states it does, sadly.

Did the DM specifically state that it spoils? Or just that you aren't allowed to use bottled blood period?

Because if it's the former, I wonder if Gentle Repose might work. Or unguent of timelessness maybe?

Otherwise just keep a bunch of commoners in a portable hole (or better yet an enveloping pit) with a bottle of air and a murlynd's spoon and an item that casts restoration at will to cure the con drain.

And whenever you're fighting, try to hit one of the enemy peons with something that incapacitates them but leaves them alive (hold person, dominate person, etc.) so you can safely feed on them after the fight is over.

[Cogidubnus]

The class states that only blood from a living being will work. And items of Restoration aren't cheap.

As for feeding on enemies, that's fine when I can incapacitate them. But there's no way this guy could grapple a dragon.

[Andezzar]

As for feeding on enemies, that's fine when I can incapacitate them. But there's no way this guy could grapple a dragon.Why grapple a dragon, when there are plenty of livestock or lvl 1 commoners around? If you want to drink dragon blood, grappling is not the best idea. Reach Spell Shivering Touch and a rod of maximize will make any non cold subtype dragon within 30 ft helpless as long as you beat the SR. Feed at your leisure.

If animal blood has no side effects, just buy/open a slaughter house. I doubt the buyers will recognize whether the animals have been drained before or after death.

[Slipperychicken]

Get some chickens (2cp each), tie them up, cage them, feed them sometimes, and treat them like little feathery blood-batteries. When you're in civilization, buy them locally, just like you would with rations.

If you're using animals as a food source, you need to immobilize them first.

[Cogidubnus]

Get some chickens (2cp each), tie them up, cage them, feed them sometimes, and treat them like little feathery blood-batteries. When you're in civilization, buy them locally, just like you would with rations.

If you're using animals as a food source, you need to immobilize them first.

I can grapple a tiny animal, I'm not that incompetent in melee :smalltongue:

[Toy Killer]

Somewhere, in all of this, I can't help but bring up the Half-Vampire template...

So is a class that in essence, thralls itself to vamprism?

[Slipperychicken]

I can grapple a tiny animal, I'm not that incompetent in melee :smalltongue:

Well, if you're keeping them in a Bag of Holding and don't want them to puncture it with their stupid little beaks and claws, you generally want to somehow restrain them.

[lord pringle]

Could you maybe link to the class?

[Cogidubnus]

Could you maybe link to the class?

This one. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=8056982&postcount=173)Though like I said, it was purely a hypothetical idea I had when I looked over the class.

[Djinn_in_Tonic]

And the rats would probably bite. Bleurgh.

But as a vampire you'd have both Damage Reduction and Fast Healing. The rats probably can't even damage you, and if they could you'd all but instantly recover. Doesn't seem like a big deal for the vampire.

[Cogidubnus]

But as a vampire you'd have both Damage Reduction and Fast Healing. The rats probably can't even damage you, and if they could you'd all but instantly recover. Doesn't seem like a big deal for the vampire.

Rats in DnD do 1d3-4 damage, so they can never harm you HP wise. I was just thinking on how creepy that would be.

[Slipperychicken]

Rats in DnD do 1d3-4 damage, so they can never harm you HP wise. I was just thinking on how creepy that would be.

Damage penalties go to a minimum of one IIRC. Only DR can bring it down to zero.

[Renen]

Bag of holding full of quintessence. Bottle the blood and stick it in there. It'll be an equivalent of draining a body and pouring a glass of blood.