[Spell/Concept] Elemental Cascade

[Fax Celestis]

Elemental Cascade
Evocation [Fire, Cold, Sonic, Electricity, Acid]
Level: Sorceror 2 (Spell level varies; see text)
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 round
Range: Varies; see text
Target: Varies; see text
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex half or None; see text
Spell Resistance: Yes

This spell has varying effects depending on the level of spell slot used to cast it. Spell level increases due to metamagic do not count towards determining the effects of this spell beyond their normal effects.

If this spell is second level, it has a range of touch and deals two points of damage of each of the following elemental types to the target: fire, cold, sonic, electricity, and acid. Since this version of the spell requires an attack roll, a Reflex save is not applicable.

Material component: a small prism.

If this spell is third level, it has a range thirty feet and is cast as a ray, which requires a ranged touch attack to succeed. If it strikes, it deals 1d4 points of each of the following elemental types to the target: fire, cold, sonic, electricity, and acid. Since this verison of the spell requires an attack roll, a Reflex save is not applicable.

Material component: a small prism.

If this spell is fifth level, it creates a 30' cone, striking all creatures within the cone for 1d4 points per four caster levels (3d4 maximum) of each of the following elemental types: fire, cold, sonic, electricity, and acid.

Material component: a ruby worth at least 100 gp.

If this spell is seventh level, it creates a 45' cone, striking all creatures within the cone for 1d4 points per four caster levels (4d4 maximum) of each of the following elemental types: fire, cold, sonic, electricity, and acid.

Material component: a star ruby worth at least 600 gp.

If this spell is eighth level, it creates one 10' cube per three caster levels. These cubes do not need to be touching, needing only to be within one hundred feet of the caster. Any creature starting their turn inside a cube immediately takes 1d4 points per caster level (5d4 maximum) of each of the following elemental types: fire, cold, sonic, electricity, and acid. The duration on this spell, instead of being instantaneous, becomes 1 round/2 caster levels.

Material component: a star ruby worth at least 1200 gp.

[MandibleBones]

Why not make them separate spells? Least Elemental Cascade at 2nd, Lesser EC at 3rd, Elemental Cascade at 5th, Greater Elemental Cascade at 7th, and Master Elemental Cascade at 8th (or 9th?)

[Fax Celestis]

It's designed for sorcerors' limited spell selection.

[Dhavaer]

It's designed for sorcerors' limited spell selection.

And suits them quite well. I heartily endorse this product or service.

[MandibleBones]

Well, it IS neat :)

[XtheYeti]

I like it alot, now im going to go kill some orcs with it

[Exalted_Hater]

i think the 500gp component is a bit much

[Larrin]

i think the 500gp component is a bit much

i agree, at the least the materials should scale with level, its not worth 500gp at low levels, and in general evocations seem to be light on expensive materials when its the sort of spell you're likely to throw around a battle filed alot. i think the expenive component would limit it a little too much. no one will spend 500 gp for a 2nd level spell that deals 10 dmg. Maybe for the 8th level version, since its pretty heavy.

[icke]

I think the damage goes up too fast.
It's almost fine at 2nd and 3rd level(10 points and 5d4(this one may be a little weak, actually) points),
but from fifth level on you do at least 20d4 damage with it - an average of 50!
For comparison: Cone of Cold does 35 average damage at that level, and 53 at leve15(maximum).
This is far too much, especially since it only works against creatures without energy resistance. So you end up having a spell that is either too powerful or rather useless - what do you do with demons, for example(multiple energy resistances)?
Why not use the caster level to determine the actual damage, for example 1d4 of each element per 4 caster levels? That would even the statistics.
And the spell level can still be used to determine range, shape and maximum caster level.

That still doesn't solve the resistance problem, though...

[XtheYeti]

I think the damage goes up too fast.
It's almost fine at 2nd and 3rd level(10 points and 5d4(this one may be a little weak, actually) points),
but from fifth level on you do at least 20d4 damage with it - an average of 50!
For comparison: Cone of Cold does 35 average damage at that level, and 53 at leve15(maximum).
This is far too much, especially since it only works against creatures without energy resistance. So you end up having a spell that is either too powerful or rather useless - what do you do with demons, for example(multiple energy resistances)?
Why not use the caster level to determine the actual damage, for example 1d4 of each element per 4 caster levels? That would even the statistics.
And the spell level can still be used to determine range, shape and maximum caster level.

That still doesn't solve the resistance problem, though...
But this spell cost 500 gp to cast...which is to much should be 100 or less

[Bitter_Elf]

Regarding the 5th-level spell damage: It does do a lot more damage than other equivalent spells, and it seems like the varied elemental damage is more of a boon than a hindrance; with one spell, you can get around virtually all resistances (just with less total damage).

Let's look at the total damage, though: the average of a d4 is 2.5, and average of a d6 is 3.5. The way the 5th-level version is currently written, you do 1d4 per element every 2 levels; 5d4 (or 5 x 2.5 = 12.5) per 2 levels, while an equivalent 1d6/level spell does 2 x 3.5 = 7 damage. This seems overpowered. What would be balanced? Well, since each increment of 5d4 deals 12.5 damage, and each increment of 1d6 deals 3.5 damage, we can divide (12.5 / 3.5) = 3.5. So 5d4 damage is about 3.5 times as powerful as 1d6 damage. If you feel that spreading damage over multiple elements will tend to weaken the spell, going with 5d4 damage every 3 levels will give it a little more oomph. If giving multiple damage types at once seems more powerful, than increase damage every 4 levels (1d4 per element per 4 caster levels). There are other things to consider, too, like potential for max damage, etc.

On the material component: this seems like a really cool spell, so requiring effort/gold to cast it doesn't seem out of line. That said, 500gp at level 3 is a LOT. Maybe use the ruby as a focus, and require an additional expenditure of ruby dust at higher caster levels? Acquiring a 500 gp ruby at level 3 could be quite a plot hook/adventure all by itself.

Hmm - for the 8th level version, what about creating one cube for each of the elements? One does cold, one fire, etc. Just a thought.

[Triaxx]

Why not a rolling increase? Level 2 requires 75XP, level 3 200XP, Level 5 is a 250gp Star Ruby, and Level 7 is a 250gp Star Ruby, and 200XP, and eight is a 500gp Star Ruby.

[Fizban]

Regarding the 5th-level spell damage: It does do a lot more damage than other equivalent spells, and it seems like the varied elemental damage is more of a boon than a hindrance; with one spell, you can get around virtually all resistances (just with less total damage).

I see it as more of a weakness. You're not likely to deal full damage against anything with anymagic or special abilities, and against creatures with multiple resistances you're wasting a spell and hefty component.

And I too object to the set component cost, or even that is has a material component. Since I think sorcerers shouldn't need any, I have no idea how to fix it.

[Fax Celestis]

Made some alterations: made it a Sorceror-only spell; made progressing material components; changed 5th-level version to 1 die/3 caster levels; changed 7th-level version to 1 die/2 caster levels.

[TheOOB]

I definatly like the idea of spells that can be different in different situations. I would make sure that any spell like this is a good deal less powerful at each spell level then a normal spell at that level, giving you the choice between power and versitility.

[Fax Celestis]

That's what I'm attempting to do.

[Fizban]

I like. A lot. Love the word "cascade" btw.

[Thray]

I'm going to be extremely nitpicky.

First of all, no spells I know of have a casting time of a full-round action. Are you thinking of a casting time of 1 round, or a standard action? A casting time of 1 round means the spell doesn't kick in until the character's next turn, which seems fine for this spell, seeing as it's substantially better than most damage spells.

Second, reflex half should say (see text) next to it.

Told you it was nitpicky!

[Fax Celestis]

Fixededed.

[icke]

Made some alterations: made it a Sorceror-only spell; made progressing material components; changed 5th-level version to 1 die/3 caster levels; changed 7th-level version to 1 die/2 caster levels.

The spell was too overpowered at high levels and you cannot fix it that way, I think. The worst thing you can usually have is a meteor swarm with 24d6(average 84 damage). Your spell allows for 50d4(average 125) damage already two levels before that - and on a MUCH larger area. The spell should either have a limited damage or a smaller area of effect to be even remotely balanced.
Concerning the material component aquiring a 500gp gem should not pose any problem to a level 10+ character...
To the cating time: 1 round sounds fine, but it means that you have to choose the target area BEFORE the target moves, so if you don't have good timing(or a generous DM) the spell will just miss anything worth hitting( that's why all damage spells have a cating time of 1 standard action).
Also I don't like the idea of making it sorcerer only - wizards do the same magic through different means, so they should be able to produce the same results...

sorry for messing

[Fax Celestis]

There are wizard-only spells. Why can't there be sorceror-only spells?

Let me make further alterations on the damage.

[icke]

There are wizard-only spells. Why can't there be sorceror-only spells?

That's right, but all wizard-only spells I can remember right now concern the wizard problem of preparing spells ahead(mnemonic enhancer etc.).

[Fax Celestis]

And this concerns the sorceror problem of not having enough spells known.

[icke]

Ok, you're right there.

But the way it is now, it is not an option for sorcerers, it's a must. There will be no sorcerer out there who doesn't have this spell.
Other sorcerer-flexibility spells exist, like the shadow evocation/conjuration etc. but they ALL have greater flexibility and less damage potential. The Cascade has flexibility and MORE damage potential.
Why not say that, for example, all versions above the 3rd level do damage of 1d4 per four caster levels per element, up to a set maximum for each spell level? That's the mechanics used in the other damage spells, so it should work fine here, too.

And I would suggest to keep the duration of the 8th-level version within one round, I can already picture the high-level sorceress in my campaign cast it every combat round, filling the entire battlefield... [SCREAM!].

sorry for messing more

[Triaxx]

The problem is, that she's going to be spending 1200gp per round per casting, and that cannot be kept up forever. I'd give it a duration of one round/2 levels, and increase it to a 2400gp Star Ruby.

[ishi]

This spell isn't really more powerful than other spells, it just gains power far too quickly compared to other damage spells. I would agree with the 1d4/4 caster levels idea.

I'm not even sure material components are necessary to balance it.

Overall, I really like the spell, Fax. Are you planning on doing any other "scaling" spells?

[Fax Celestis]

I am indeed.

[Yakk]

So, some ideas for varients.

First, instead of 1d4 for every 4 levels:
Cascade 1d6 damage:
Every 1: 2 points of fire damage
Every 2: 2 points of cold damage
Every 3: 2 points of sonic damage
Every 4: 2 points of electricty damage
Every 5: 2 points of acid damage
Every 6: 2 points of each kind of damage

Average damage per d6 cascade: 3.67 damage. Slightly more than a usual d6.

Next, spice up the abilities. As it stands, this spell is just a bunch of better ways of dealing damage. And you have two cones...

So, in increasing power:
L 2 Touch, L 3 Ray, L 4 Shield, L 5 Cone, L 6 Barrier, L 7 Trap, L 8 Storm.

Each of these spells should be somewhat weaker than a standard spell -- the sorc is getting a deal, getting lots of spell flexibility for one level 2 spell slot!

So, in general, each spell will be 1 level "too high" for it's power level.

L 2 spell: Touch. 1d6 on the above table for every two sorc level, up to 4d6. (8 to 40 damage, average 14.7). This spell lasts 1 round/level or until it discharges once.

Shocking grasp is 1d6/level up to 5d6 -- this spell is 1d6 for every 2 levels, up to 4d6. To make it interesting, I gave the caster more than one try to get the spell to "go off".

L 3 spell: Ray, Ranged touch. 1d6 on the above table for every sorc level, up to 10d6. (20 to 100 damage, everage 36.6)

Scorching ray, a L 2 spell, does about 1d6/level up to 12d6, and can split the damage. So this is on par with scorching ray.

L 4 spell: Shield. Absorbs the first 20 damage from each kind of elemental damage. Self or touch.
Does 1d6 damage on the above table whenever you are hit in melee damage.

Lasts 1 round/level.

On-par with the L 3 resistance spell, which soaks 12/level from one resistance type. The d6 flat damage shield adds a bit of spice.

L 5 spell: Cone, 30'. 1d6 per level on the above table, up to 12d6. Reflex for half. (20 to 100 damage, average 36.6)

Weaker than Cone of Cold (half range, and max 12d6 instead of 15d6), another L 5 spell.

L 6 spell: Barrier. Up to 2' wide per level. 20' tall. Cannot be brought into existance overlapping a solid or liquid. Does 10d6 cascade damage to anything trying to cross it, fort save for half.

Lasts 1 round/level.

10 points of any kind of elemental damage (fire, cold, acid, sonic, electricity) prevents the wall from doing that damage. 10 of each dissipates the wall completely.

Quite different than most spells. Tactically weaker than most other wall spells (like wall of force), and massively weaker than the L 8 prismatic wall.

L 7 spell: Trap. Touch range. Explodes for 12d6 damage in a 20' radius if anyone besides caster gets within 5' of the glyph. Can be disabled by a touch of the caster or by a successful disable magical trap.

10 minutes/level duration.

Stronger version, less duration, than Explosive Runes (L 3 spell)

L 8 spell: Storm. Cylnder up to 5' radius and 10' per caster level.

Duration 1 round/level.

All objects and creatures in the storm take 2d6 damage on the above table every round (no save).

Once per round as a free action, the sorcerer can make 1 target take an additional 5d6 damage on the above table. (Reflex for half)

Weaker version of Incindiary Cloud

[icke]

Yakk: This version has too much versatility, your sorcerer can do almost everything with it. If the cascade kept a combat damage-dealing spell then the damage could be slightly increased.
But I like the idea how you deal damage, maybe one should add the chaotic descriptor to the spell :)
However, what about changing the '6'-entry to ' roll twice ', that would make the damage distribution smoother.

[Yakk]

Heck, pick any 3 and call it a day. :)

The rolling and looking up is already annoying enough. I figured rolling 20d6 damage would be a bit crazy.

Hmm. You could look at the min level for each spell, and have a "base damage" plus some rolls on the table?

Strip out most. Leave "touch L 2", "ray L 4", "Barrier L 6", "Storm L 8".
(all ways of doing damage)

Change the table to 1 point per roll. Each d6 on the table is an average of 1.8 damage.

4th level sorc for L 2 spells.
Shocking grasp does 14 damage at L 4, 17.5 at L 5.

2 of each elemental damage type (10 damage), plus a d6 (1-5, 1.8 average).

L 4 Ray: L 8 sorc requred.

2 of each elemental damage type, plus d6 per level (up to 12d6).

@ L 8, does 18 to 50 (average of 24.66)
@ L 12+, does 22 to 70 (average of 32)
L 2 scorching ray: @ L 8, does avg 28, @ L 12+ does avg 42.

Barrier: L 6 spell, L 12 required.

Change it to fixed damage. 10 damage of each elemental type -- so 50 damage total if you cross it with no resistances. Elemental damage of the approprate type weakens it. Fort save for half.

Storm: L 8, L 16 required.
Change the size to fixed: 50' diameter and 100' tall.

1 point of each elemental damage from being in the storm, no save (5 damage). (reduce dice rolls)

Free strike for 10d6 on the table (18.33 average) every round, reflex for half.

Incind cloud is 14 dam with a reflex for half to everyone in the cloud.

So: Cascade Storm is 23.3 (no save) 14.2 (save) on one target, and 5 damage to everyone else
Incind cloud is 14 (no save) 7 (save) on every target.

Incind cloud is smaller, and it moves. This spell is stationary, and a bit larger.

I'm a bit leery of the table honestly -- it could get annoying to look things up on it. (you'd want a printout).

[XtheYeti]

Heck, pick any 3 and call it a day. :)

The rolling and looking up is already annoying enough. I figured rolling 20d6 damage would be a bit crazy.

Hmm. You could look at the min level for each spell, and have a "base damage" plus some rolls on the table?

Strip out most. Leave "touch L 2", "ray L 4", "Barrier L 6", "Storm L 8".
(all ways of doing damage)

Change the table to 1 point per roll. Each d6 on the table is an average of 1.8 damage.

4th level sorc for L 2 spells.
Shocking grasp does 14 damage at L 4, 17.5 at L 5.

2 of each elemental damage type (10 damage), plus a d6 (1-5, 1.8 average).

L 4 Ray: L 8 sorc requred.

2 of each elemental damage type, plus d6 per level (up to 12d6).

@ L 8, does 18 to 50 (average of 24.66)
@ L 12+, does 22 to 70 (average of 32)
L 2 scorching ray: @ L 8, does avg 28, @ L 12+ does avg 42.

Barrier: L 6 spell, L 12 required.

Change it to fixed damage. 10 damage of each elemental type -- so 50 damage total if you cross it with no resistances. Elemental damage of the approprate type weakens it. Fort save for half.

Storm: L 8, L 16 required.
Change the size to fixed: 50' diameter and 100' tall.

1 point of each elemental damage from being in the storm, no save (5 damage). (reduce dice rolls)

Free strike for 10d6 on the table (18.33 average) every round, reflex for half.

Incind cloud is 14 dam with a reflex for half to everyone in the cloud.

So: Cascade Storm is 23.3 (no save) 14.2 (save) on one target, and 5 damage to everyone else
Incind cloud is 14 (no save) 7 (save) on every target.

Incind cloud is smaller, and it moves. This spell is stationary, and a bit larger.

I'm a bit leery of the table honestly -- it could get annoying to look things up on it. (you'd want a printout).
This one gets my vote