How to get rid of extremely cursed items?

[Nettlekid]

I'm in a highly homebrew campaign with demons and angels, all Supernatural-style, and my character is a highly stealthy skillmonkey type. He does not give us any treasure ever (literally, we have had the same equipment since starting three levels ago) so when there was a chance to gain new items we jumped on it. But of course those items were cursed, fusing into us, so now these demons can locate us at any time. Because my main thing was being invisible with a 40 Hide and Darkstalker, this basically means I can't do anything. So I NEED to get these off. But the DM is really stubborn and kind of railroads, so that in situations where normally discussion and creativity would be rewarded, you're met with unhelpful NPCs at every turn who are always too proud to accept your help, believe you to be untrustworthy but there's nothing you can do to gain their trust, not helping you is worth more than their life if you threaten them, etc etc. Even when you get 30s in your Bluff and Diplomacy without fail.

I've tried a lot, but to little avail. I've tried to get NPC Clerics to cast Delay Death on me, cut off my arm and break my skull (cursed gauntlet and a Third Eye which bonded into my head), and then Regenerate me, but they don't trust me enough to do so. I've even offered to let them kill me and Resurrect me from a foot or something, taking the loss of character level, but still no. Remove Curse and Break Enchantment do nothing. So what can I do?

I'm a highly rogue-like character, with high skills. I have access to any 2nd or lower Sorcerer/Wizard spell, and I can probably steal potions of 3rd level or lower. Assume that apart from that I don't have access to any magic. How can I get these off?

[qwertyu63]

What can your character do? ... Nothing. This is an out of character problem. The problem is your DM will never let them come off until he wants them off. He is railroading you hard here. There are 3 things you need to do.

1: Talk to your DM about this. He is the problem here after all.
2: If that doesn't work, talk to the rest of the party to get their opinions on the DM.
3: If the rest of the party agrees, fire the guy as DM.

[Nettlekid]

Nah, it's not that much of a problem. Especially since it's mainly only me that's really inconvenienced by these items. The rest of the party doesn't really mind being under lock and key by the demons, but I've been double-agenting all over the place, so I'm the only one with a problem. What I'm trying to find is some way to get rid of these that is so airtight and impossible to deny without being so obviously "No I want you stuck like this you don't have a choice," which is a lame thing for any DM to do and I think he won't, that it'll work.

What I'm mostly annoyed about is that in previous campaigns with a different DM, any kind of creative problem-solving was rewarded. Something wasn't working? Try something else. The smarter you were and the more you experimented, the better things ended up. This is the opposite of that, where he lets you waste time by trying lots of things and talking to lots of people while having already decided the outcome.

[ksbsnowowl]

What can your character do? ... Nothing. This is an out of character problem. The problem is your DM will never let them come off until he wants them off. He is railroading you hard here. There are 3 things you need to do.

1: Talk to your DM about this. He is the problem here after all.
2: If that doesn't work, talk to the rest of the party to get their opinions on the DM.
3: If the rest of the party agrees, fire the guy as DM.

I was going to suggest basically the same thing.

Talk to the DM. Is there some important plot reason he wants these cursed items on you guys? Or is he just being a jerk because he can? (Probe gently to discover that last part; don't straight out ask if he's just being a jerk because it's funny to him.)

If talking to the DM doesn't solve the issue to your satisfaction, either find a new DM, or find a new group.

What are your group mates' opinions on the matter?

[Grollub]

Talk to the DM and express your feelings to him, and how dissatisfied you are. If he doesn't listen at all, find a new game.

[ksbsnowowl]

What I'm trying to find is some way to get rid of these that is so airtight and impossible to deny without being so obviously "No I want you stuck like this you don't have a choice." ...

... This is the opposite of that, where he lets you waste time by trying lots of things and talking to lots of people while having already decided the outcome.

You've answered yourself. You will not find the first one, because of the DM's stance in the second one. It doesn't matter what great RAW way you've found that can get rid of absolutely any curse, the DM won't let it happen.

That said, your character could always say "Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu," then wish for the cursed objects to be removed from you.

But again, if the DM doesn't want you to lose them, you won't.

[animewatcha]

Take the fastest way into drunken master and rolls 1s while wielding everything?

[TaiLiu]

Perhaps the Dispel Magic plus Shatter combination could work here. See, you cast Dispel Magic (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/dispelMagic.htm) to suppress the magical properties for 1d4 rounds, then cast Shatter (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shatter.htm) to destroy the currently non-magical item.

[Silva Stormrage]

Ya you aren't going to get it off. Ever. The dm has npc clerics not trust you enough to remove a curse. For no reason apparently. I guess if you REALLY wanted to try and get it off you could try to buy/steal certain scrolls to UMD it yourself but it sounds like you can't do that due to lack of money/items.

[ksbsnowowl]

You could always kill your character. If your new one is ever offered items by a demon, don't accept.

[Slipperychicken]

I've tried a lot, but to little avail. I've tried to get NPC Clerics to cast Delay Death on me, cut off my arm and break my skull (cursed gauntlet and a Third Eye which bonded into my head), and then Regenerate me, but they don't trust me enough to do so. I've even offered to let them kill me and Resurrect me from a foot or something, taking the loss of character level, but still no. Remove Curse and Break Enchantment do nothing. So what can I do?


Your DM is being a prick. The ones who don't give loot also tend to be the ones who are extremely controlling (predetermining outcomes, extreme railroading, excessive homebrew/fiat) and nerf characters who make them think too hard(well, irrevocably invalidate their abilities with fiat).

I suggest talking to the DM, and if that fails, find a new one. I had a DM like this and I can tell you from firsthand experience: This isn't worth it. It's better to have no game than a bad game. Your fellow players are probably also sick of his sh*t, so talk to them about electing/finding a new DM.

[Alaris]

Talk to the DM. If he ultimately will not budge, get your character killed intentionally. Roll in with a new character (make sure he's self sufficient, so he doesn't need loot. Maybe even go Vow of Poverty, especially in a game so light on loot).

If he forces the "Curse" on the new character, walk. Just leave. At that point, he's being a douche.

Well, he's already being a **** about it.

[Ellrin]

That said, your character could always say "Pazuzu, Pazuzu, Pazuzu," then wish for the cursed objects to be removed from you.

I think this is my new favorite way to deal with DM railroading. It's far from failsafe, and won't work against high level opponents if that's what your DM is using as an excuse to railroad you, but even if it doesn't work it should still screw with his plans since now he has to deal with Pazuzu.

[Ravens_cry]

Well, it's a homebrew campaign. The DM could simply say, 'Pazuzu doesn't doesn't exist/work like that in my world." I am going to agree with the majority and say this requires an out of character discussion.

[Slipperychicken]

I think this is my new favorite way to deal with DM railroading. It's far from failsafe, and won't work against high level opponents if that's what your DM is using as an excuse to railroad you, but even if it doesn't work it should still screw with his plans since now he has to deal with Pazuzu.

"A very angry looking Pazuzu walks out of an otherworldly breach in spacetime and drags you into the underworld to be tortured forever. Ha ha ha."


Seriously, just don't.

[killem2]

Remove Curse and Break Enchantment do nothing. So what can I do?

I rarley say this, and I hate it when people say it to me, but when a DM is blatanly disregarding the rules because they are not good at story telling, you need to consider getting a new DM if they are not willing to tell you why it doesn't work.



Also, I agree with suicide. While, not optimal, you can easily say the curse has driven your character to madness and cannot take it any longer.

If he still rail road some ridiculous excuse for this item to prevent that, then it's time to leave.

if you happen to be in the omaha NE metro area, you are free to join my games, we don't pull BS likes this :P.


"A very angry looking Pazuzu walks out of an otherworldly breach in spacetime and drags you into the underworld to be tortured forever. Ha ha ha."


Seriously, just don't.



Maybe someone already has said it, and this is their endless torture lol.

[navar100]

You aren't given any magic items since campaign started then when you finally get some they are cursed.

Yes, your problem is the DM. He hates his players. He hates it when PCs have nice toys to play with. He hates it when the party is "powerful". He needs to exert control on what the PCs are permitted to do because he's in charge, the Boss, the big kahuna, the Master of Everything. He won't admit it, but that is the reality. To make things "interesting" or "challenging" will be his excuses. Calling you whiny babies or munchkins when you protest will be his defense.

It's possible to teach such DMs the errors of their ways, but it is very difficult. Not even quitting his game will convince him because he'll just be happy to be rid of a whiny baby munchkin. If no one plays he'll grumble you can't find decent players these days.

[Krobar]

He's being a jerk of a DM. He doesn't give the players jack OR squat, then when he finally gives you SOMETHING, it's cursed?

I'm glad I'm not in that game. I would end up railroading it left, right and sideways. Within the rules of course.

[Ellrin]

"A very angry looking Pazuzu walks out of an otherworldly breach in spacetime and drags you into the underworld to be tortured forever. Ha ha ha."


Seriously, just don't.

Eh? If you're already being railroaded so hard that you can't do what you want to do with your character and you have a backup available, I think it really inconveniences your DM more than you even if all that happens is rocks fall.

And if your DM is railroading you that hard, make him work harder for it than you. That's not how the game should be played, so if he wants to play it that way, let him do the work. Even if it means a string of dead characters.

[Nettlekid]

Now although I appreciate the, er, vigor with which these opinions are being expressed, I do have to speak up and say that these aren't entirely fair critiques. He's an okay DM and the campaign is decently fun, my only real problem with him is that he gets a bit too into his own story (this campaign world is based off the plot from a book he wrote which is basically Supernatural fanfiction) and so he wants things to go his way. Even when we have boss fights and stuff, we fight the boss and take down all his HP and whatever, but we are incapable of dealing the finishing blow because of reasons and so his special NPC has to come in and do the job. It's still a boss fight and the special NPC only comes in when the boss' HP is 0, so it doesn't make a difference mechanically, but it gets a little tiresome for flavor and roleplaying purposes.

If I was some sort of mindless bruiser who just cared about DPS, I wouldn't really mind it at all. Point me in the direction to charge. But since I built a skillmonkey designed to do things like get intel, creep around, avoid combat, steal loot, etc, this is exactly wrong for my character. Any special information I get is just told to the party soon after as it comes out in plot, so I don't have the chance to do much with it. If I think of plans that could make certain fights unnecessary or bypass them entirely, by exploiting certain weaknesses of the demons and angels that are in the campaign, those plans will never work. Everyone I try to diplomacize with is either stubbornly proud or too crazy to care.

The rest of the party has expressed distaste in this too in the past (there was one instance where there were negotiations between a defeated necromancer and the party for an IRL hour because we wanted their undead horse that only the necromancer could control, and the necromancer (bound and beaten, at our mercy, no leverage points) refused absolutely. Eventually they knocked the necromancer out and the horse just ran away) but since all the others are primarily battle-focused, they don't REALLY care that much. The lack of loot is pissing everyone off. Especially since this DM does more ability point damage than HP damage, and we have little to deal with that. He also uses stuff like "custom AMFs that don't block Su abilities", which all of his homebrew monster's abilities are. Even the fiery swords, yes, those are Su.

My character values his survival above all else, so I really can't justify suicide or even letting him die (in character, he'd do everything he can to avoid that, and that's what he's very good at.) And even still, I don't think there's anything I want to replace him with. We have a charging barbarian, a dervish, and a shadow sun ninja for melee. We have a warlock for ranged, and a transmutation-focused wizard for buffs and stuff. We had a cleric but they dropped out, so super-powerful NPCs just pop in to heal us if we're hurt. Skillmonkey seemed the best roll, and it works sometimes, but mainly just to stay out of the way.

[hymer]

Seems to me you just added more fuel to the fire. :smallsmile:
Anyway, it seems your problem has been analyzed correctly: You can't get rid of this curse in game, if you really want to be rid of it, you'll have to do it out of the game, one way or another.
And, you know, your DM ought to learn to do better. Staying out of the way doesn't sound like having fun at gaming to me. I'm guessing he doesn't ask for any feedback? Or ignores any feedback he gets? But that's besides your purpose with this thread, I guess.

[XionUnborn01]

I hate when a character concept is ruined by something unforseen, so I understand all the responses. With that said, I'm going to play a little devil's advocate here for a minute.

First; did you know and agree to this Supernatural based world you're playing in, and if so do you have a decent knowledge of the Supernatural show? In addition to that, did you know it was based of his own fanfiction?

Because in the show, they're often on the losing side from the start and end up getting help from one angel or trickster or someone to finish the job quite a few times.

Are these items meant for the short term plot device? Because I think that's entirely possible and I've used a similar though not so extreme plot device before. If that's the case, this could easily be treated as a short inconvenience until the problem is solved.

I'm not saying I agree with everything your DM is doing, I'm just trying to bring up a few points to maybe help you see things from a different perspective because the worst thing as a DM can often be a party that simply walks away from every plot hook you come up with so you have to constantly scramble for more. I'm not saying you necessarily do that but your DM might have a big arc thought out and wants to make sure you get started on it.

[Ellrin]

My character values his survival above all else, so I really can't justify suicide or even letting him die (in character, he'd do everything he can to avoid that, and that's what he's very good at.)

There's your out. Run the heck away. Your character can no longer be sneaky and manipulative, which are probably the bread and butter not only of his "offense," but also of his defense. Merely managing to stay out of the way is no sensible way to survive in a violent, dangerous environment. If your character is more concerned with his own survival than the goal of the campaign (whatever that is), he should want to run far and run fast, and it sounds like he'd be good at it.

If you want to continue as a specialist skill monkey, roll another character, but make him paranoid, focused as much on sense motive as manipulation, and roll SM checks on basically every interaction you have. Don't accept gifts from anyone, not even your party; and pump his will saves as much as possible. Maybe dip some levels in magic-granting classes to give you more options for buffing your manipulation and detection abilities, and jump at your first chance to grab a class-granted mind-blank-like ability. Since your DM's using AMFs that don't affect supernatural abilities, you could dip binder or another malleable class that almost exclusively uses supernatural abilities instead of a traditional spellcaster.

With sense motive, paranoia, and supernatural abilities as your primary tools for spying rather than traditional sneaking, diplomacy/intimidate checks, and so forth, even if your DM does manage to slap a curse on you like the ones you seem to be describing, you'll still be effective. If he slaps a curse on you that blocks your supernatural abilities, and/or consistently uses mind-affecting abilities with DCs that you can't beat despite pumping will saves, and/or if your sense motive checks are completely useless despite pumping SM, you either need to have a long talk with your DM or step out of the game, because it's clear that he just wants to lock the party out, regardless of whether the rest of the party cares.

[Nettlekid]

Staying out of the way is actually quite playing in game. My character has telepathy, so staying out of the way often involves hiding in the shadows and conversing with the enemy, making deals unknown to the rest of the party. The DM has enjoyed doing that, but what I think he doesn't want is for his big bad boss character also not to be able to find me when the time comes. We have in no way shied away from plot hooks (there's only one, so we kind of have to follow it) but he just wanted a radar that bypasses my 40 Hide and Darkstalker. He wants a reason that his demon is allowed to know where I am so I can't just tail her and listen in on all her secrets that she's telling to the demon members of the party.


I hate when a character concept is ruined by something unforseen, so I understand all the responses. With that said, I'm going to play a little devil's advocate here for a minute.

First; did you know and agree to this Supernatural based world you're playing in, and if so do you have a decent knowledge of the Supernatural show? In addition to that, did you know it was based of his own fanfiction?

Because in the show, they're often on the losing side from the start and end up getting help from one angel or trickster or someone to finish the job quite a few times.

Are these items meant for the short term plot device? Because I think that's entirely possible and I've used a similar though not so extreme plot device before. If that's the case, this could easily be treated as a short inconvenience until the problem is solved.

I'm not saying I agree with everything your DM is doing, I'm just trying to bring up a few points to maybe help you see things from a different perspective because the worst thing as a DM can often be a party that simply walks away from every plot hook you come up with so you have to constantly scramble for more. I'm not saying you necessarily do that but your DM might have a big arc thought out and wants to make sure you get started on it.

Yeah, I knew it was this sort of campaign, and everything's as expected so far. We're actually on the side of evil, our employer being some contender for queen of hell or something like that. And yeah, I'm not too upset by the "never being the one to actually do anything important, just being a helper" because that's the design of my character in the first place. I think the charger is more annoyed that his super charge attacks never connect with the unkillable enemy. I'm quite sure these items aren't meant for a short term plot device, because they're items either requested by us or just designed to boost our characters, not actual plot tools. But they also double as radars, as I mentioned above. The first time it happened I wasn't upset because, to my knowledge, I could remove the gauntlet and go stealth mode if I needed to. I'd play along with the demon's game, but still have autonomy. My mood changes when I am told that an item that I pick up (and not even put on) automatically fuses to my skull.

I appreciate the alternative points of view, but I (somewhat unhappily) promise that this DM isn't too deep and plotting. There's no way we can do anything but exactly what he wants us to, so there's no loosing plot hooks. He likes a clever character, but I think he doesn't really like a clever player all that much.

[Ellrin]

[...] but he just wanted a radar that bypasses my 40 Hide and Darkstalker. He wants a reason that his demon is allowed to know where I am so I can't just tail her and listen in on all her secrets that she's telling to the demon members of the party.

Oh.

OH.

That's completely different from what I was thinking. This demon is the BBEG and/or your employer? You can still hide and spy on people who aren't direct subordinates of this particular demon?

Yeah, that actually seems entirely fair. Maybe you can try to weasel information by making more dangerous deals and/or getting less specific information from lower level sources, and see how your DM responds to that, but not letting you spy without repurcussions on one of the most central figures of the plot seems entirely reasonable, especially if you (even unknowingly) agreed to take the instrument of your own downfall.

[Almagesto]

Here's what I would do: convince your DM that you NOT knowing secrets from the BBEG makes perfect sense, but that maybe instead of YOU being hammered HE/SHE/It (being a demon you never know) should be buffed. Have the DM give his character some shenanigan that allows him to retain the secret behind the BBEG and get rid of your handicap.

[icefractal]

Seems ... pretty railroady, actually. I do think that talking to the DM is an important step.

It's not that uncommon for DMs fall too much in love with their NPCs and villains, not wanting them to ever be defeated or outmatched, except maybe at the "appropriate" time. This is something that needs to be stepped on, hard, because that's a non-viable attitude for a shared collaboration where one party has unlimited resources. But IME, DMs who do take this attitude need to be told in no uncertain terms that this is a problem for the players. Any kind of in-character grumbling or subtle remarks will be brushed off as "Ah, the characters are pissed at this guy - that's perfect, he's a good villain then." or "This one player is a poor sport."

It's possible that having the character ride off into the sunset and bringing in a similar but unencumbered one will fix your problem, but it's also possible that the DM will just pull the same thing at the first opportunity, or resort to other shenanigans. The only sure approach is to state things bluntly to the DM, and be decide what to do if he won't change it.