Revamping the Shadar-Kai 3.X/P

[jedipilot24]

I recently saw the Book of Vile Darkness movie and was surprised at how much better it was than the preceding two movies. It has inspired me to try to create a playable Shadar-Kai race for 3.5 and Pathfinder using the Pathfinder Reference Document.
What do you think?

3.5, shooting for either no LA or at most LA+1.
Shadar-kai
Outsider (native)
Medium
+2 Dex, +2 Cha, -2 Wis, -4 Con
Spd: 30ft
Darkvision 60ft
Superior low-light vision
Stealthy: Shadar-kai gain +4 racial bonus on hide and move silently checks
Shadow Origin: Shadar-kai are native to the Plane of Shadow; they are considered a shadow creature for the purpose of effects that relate to creature origin.
Feyblood: Shadar-kai are considered Fey for the purpose of effects that relate to creature origin.
Winterkin: Shadar-kai gain Cold Resistance 5 and Electricity Resistance 5.
Shadow Blending (Su): Shadar-kai in areas of dim light have a 50% miss chance instead of the normal 20% miss chance. This trait does not grant total concealment; it just increases the miss chance. This is a supernatural ability.
Weapon Familiarity: Shadar-Kai may treat spiked chain weapons as Martial.
Automatic language: Common, Undercommon; Bonus languages: Infernal, Abyssal, Draconic

Pathfinder
Shadar-kai
Outsider (native)
Medium
+2 Dex, +2 Cha, -2 Wis, -4 Con
Spd: 30ft
Darkvision 60ft
Superior low-light vision
Stealthy: Shadar-kai gain +4 racial bonus on Stealth checks
Shadow Origin: Shadar-kai are native to the Shadowfell; they are considered a shadow creature for the purpose of effects that relate to creature origin.
Feyblood:Feyblood: Shadar-kai are considered Fey for the purpose of effects that relate to creature origin.
Winterkin: Shadar-kai gain Cold Resistance 5 and Electricity Resistance 5.
Shadow Blending (Su): Shadar-kai in areas of dim light have a 50% miss chance instead of the normal 20% miss chance. This trait does not grant total concealment; it just increases the miss chance. This is a supernatural ability.
Weapon Familiarity: Shadar-Kai may treat spiked chain weapons as Martial.
Automatic language: Common, Undercommon; Bonus languages: Infernal, Abyssal, Draconic

Speaking of the movie, what class do you think the Shadar-kai chick was? She's the only I can't quite pin down. The Rot-Mage guy is a Wizard, the Assassin guy is a Rogue, the Goliath is a Ranger, and Grayson is a Fighter with True Believer (Pelor) and a Shard of the Sun relic.

What are your thoughts
If it wasn't for the fact that she could heal wounds, I would call her a Warlock. As it is I'm not sure.

[Frathe]

Shadow Origin: Shadar-kai are native to the Plane of Shadow; they are considered a shadow creature for the purpose of effects that relate to creature origin.What exactly is a shadow creature? The only reference I can find in the SRD is in the spell shadow conjuration, and that's about summoning. Do you just mean that they're Outsiders native to the Plane of Shadow? Am I missing something? It's just that it doesn't seem to be an established subtype (for example, a Shadow Mastiff, from the Plane of Shadows, is just Outsider (Extraplanar)).

[jedipilot24]

What exactly is a shadow creature? The only reference I can find in the SRD is in the spell shadow conjuration, and that's about summoning. Do you just mean that they're Outsiders native to the Plane of Shadow? Am I missing something? It's just that it doesn't seem to be an established subtype (for example, a Shadow Mastiff, from the Plane of Shadows, is just Outsider (Extraplanar)).

Yes, I meant that to mean that its native to the Plane of Shadow. I didn't realize that it wasn't an actual subtype. What should I change it to or should I just remove this part?

[Frathe]

Yes, I meant that to mean that its native to the Plane of Shadow. I didn't realize that it wasn't an actual subtype. What should I change it to or should I just remove this part?It'd be convenient, but unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a subtype for this purpose (one would make sense, but I guess they didn't have one).

All I can think of right now is making them Outsiders with the Extraplanar subtype, if you want them to be from the Plane of Shadow. Unfortunately, I don't know of a way to be more specific with indicating the plane of origin.

[Waddacku]

Why not just make them fey native to the plane of shadow?

[Frathe]

Why not just make them fey native to the plane of shadow?Now that I've actually looked this race up, this seems like a good suggestion. I was trying to help without having heard of them. Wikipedia describes them as fey, though.

[jedipilot24]

Okay, here's round 2:

3.5, shooting for either no LA or at most LA+1.
Shadar-kai
Humanoid (Fey)
Medium
+2 Dex, +2 Cha, -2 Wis, -4 Con
Spd: 30ft
Darkvision 60ft
Superior low-light vision: Shadar-kai see four times as far as normal in conditions of dim light.
Stealthy: Shadar-kai gain +4 racial bonus on hide and move silently checks
Feyblood: Shadar-kai are considered Fey for the purpose of effects that relate to creature origin.
Winterkin: Shadar-kai gain Cold Resistance 5 and Electricity Resistance 5.
Shadow Blending (Su): Shadar-kai in areas of dim light have a 50% miss chance instead of the normal 20% miss chance. This trait does not grant total concealment; it just increases the miss chance. This is a supernatural ability.
Weapon Familiarity: Shadar-Kai may treat spiked chain weapons as Martial.
Automatic language: Common, Undercommon; Bonus languages: Infernal, Abyssal, Draconic


Pathfinder

Shadar-kai
Humanoid (Fey)
Medium
+2 Dex, +2 Cha, -2 Wis, -4 Con
Spd: 30ft
Darkvision 60ft
Superior low-light vision: Shadar-kai see four times as far as normal in conditions of dim light.
Stealthy: Shadar-kai gain +4 racial bonus on Stealth checks
Feyblood:Feyblood: Shadar-kai are considered Fey for the purpose of effects that relate to creature origin.
Winterkin: Shadar-kai gain Cold Resistance 5 and Electricity Resistance 5.
Shadow Blending (Su): Shadar-kai in areas of dim light have a 50% miss chance instead of the normal 20% miss chance. This trait does not grant total concealment; it just increases the miss chance. This is a supernatural ability.
Weapon Familiarity: Shadar-Kai may treat spiked chain weapons as Martial.
Automatic language: Common, Undercommon; Bonus languages: Infernal, Abyssal, Draconic

[Frathe]

Feyblood: Shadar-kai are considered Fey for the purpose of effects that relate to creature origin.

If they actually are fey, this ability serves no purpose. They'd naturally be counted as fey because they are.

Edit: There's a typo in the Pathfinder version. You have "Feyblood: Feyblood".

[jedipilot24]

If they actually are fey, this ability serves no purpose. They'd naturally be counted as fey because they are.

Edit: There's a typo in the Pathfinder version. You have "Feyblood: Feyblood".

Uh...right, doh. I'll fix that once I get some more feedback.

[Waddacku]

Also fey isn't a humanoid subtype, either, just a type of its own.

Looking again, they should absolutely not have LA as they are now. -4 Con is a very big drawback already.

[Mystic Muse]

I'd reconsider the large constitution penalty. -4 makes them really, really squishy.

[jedipilot24]

Okay, time for round 3:

3.5, no LA
Shadar-kai
Humanoid (Planetouched)
Medium
+2 Dex, +2 Cha, -2 Wis, -2 Con
Spd: 30ft
Darkvision 60ft
Superior low-light vision: Shadar-kai see four times as far as normal in conditions of dim light.
Stealthy: Shadar-kai gain +4 racial bonus on hide and move silently checks
Feyblood: Shadar-kai are considered Fey for the purpose of effects that relate to creature origin.
Winterkin: Shadar-kai gain Cold Resistance 5 and Electricity Resistance 5.
Shadow Blending (Su): Shadar-kai in areas of dim light have a 50% miss chance instead of the normal 20% miss chance. This trait does not grant total concealment; it just increases the miss chance. This is a supernatural ability.
Weapon Familiarity: Shadar-Kai may treat spiked chain weapons as Martial.
Automatic language: Common, Undercommon; Bonus languages: Infernal, Abyssal, Draconic


Pathfinder
Shadar-kai
Humanoid (Planetouched)
Medium
+2 Dex, +2 Cha, -2 Wis, -2 Con
Spd: 30ft
Darkvision 60ft
Superior low-light vision: Shadar-kai see four times as far as normal in conditions of dim light.
Stealthy: Shadar-kai gain +4 racial bonus on Stealth checks
Feyblood: Shadar-kai are considered Fey for the purpose of effects that relate to creature origin.
Winterkin: Shadar-kai gain Cold Resistance 5 and Electricity Resistance 5.
Shadow Blending (Su): Shadar-kai in areas of dim light have a 50% miss chance instead of the normal 20% miss chance. This trait does not grant total concealment; it just increases the miss chance. This is a supernatural ability.
Weapon Familiarity: Shadar-Kai may treat spiked chain weapons as Martial.
Automatic language: Common, Undercommon; Bonus languages: Infernal, Abyssal, Draconic

[Frathe]

I don't think planetouched is a subtype. The actual planetouched in 3.5e both have the type Medium Outsider (Native). That indicated their ancestral origin in the planes, but current residence in the Prime Material.

You could also just make them fey. There's nothing wrong with having a fey player race; look at pixies, for example.

Edit: I'm not sure why "Medium" is on its own line. Things usually say (for example) "Medium Outsider (Native)".

[jedipilot24]

I don't think planetouched is a subtype. The actual planetouched in 3.5e both have the type Medium Outsider (Native). That indicated their ancestral origin in the planes, but current residence in the Prime Material.

The Lesser Planetouched in PGF are Humanoids with the Planetouched subtype.

[Frathe]

The Lesser Planetouched in PGF are Humanoids with the Planetouched subtype.Sorry, I don't own that book. I was just looking at Tieflings and Aasimars. That's fine then.

I did think these were meant to be fey, though (going by the Wikipedia article).

[jedipilot24]

Well, alright. Here's the Fey version. Any other critiques aside from their type?


3.5
Shadar-kai
Medium Fey (Extraplanar)
+2 Dex, +2 Cha, -2 Wis, -2 Con
Spd: 30ft
Darkvision 60ft
Superior low-light vision: Shadar-kai see four times as far as normal in conditions of dim light.
Stealthy: Shadar-kai gain +4 racial bonus on hide and move silently checks
Winterkin: Shadar-kai gain Cold Resistance 5 and Electricity Resistance 5.
Shadow Blending (Su): Shadar-kai in areas of dim light have a 50% miss chance instead of the normal 20% miss chance. This trait does not grant total concealment; it just increases the miss chance. This ability does not work in full daylight or within the radius of a daylight spell.
Weapon Familiarity: Shadar-Kai may treat spiked chain weapons as Martial.
Automatic language: Common, Undercommon; Bonus languages: Infernal, Abyssal, Draconic

Pathfinder
Shadar-kai
Medium Fey (Extraplanar)
+2 Dex, +2 Cha, -2 Wis, -2 Con
Spd: 30ft
Darkvision 60ft
Superior low-light vision: Shadar-kai see four times as far as normal in conditions of dim light.
Stealthy: Shadar-kai gain +4 racial bonus on Stealth checks
Winterkin: Shadar-kai gain Cold Resistance 5 and Electricity Resistance 5.
Shadow Blending (Su): Shadar-kai in areas of dim light have a 50% miss chance instead of the normal 20% miss chance. This trait does not grant total concealment; it just increases the miss chance. This ability does not work in full daylight or within the radius of a daylight spell.
Weapon Familiarity: Shadar-Kai may treat spiked chain weapons as Martial.
Automatic language: Common, Undercommon; Bonus languages: Infernal, Abyssal, Draconic

[Frathe]

Well, alright. Here's the Fey version. Any other critiques aside from their type?Looks fine as far as I can see, except I think the resistances and Shadow Blending might bump it up to LA +1.

Edit: And to really nitpick, it's technically redundant for the Shadow Blending to say "This is a supernatural ability" when you already indicated that with the (Su). Actually, you might want to look at the Shadow Mastiff's (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/shadowMastiff.htm) Shadow Blend ability for that (for how it interacts with light spells).

[jedipilot24]

Looks fine as far as I can see, except I think the resistances and Shadow Blending might bump it up to LA +1.

Edit: And to really nitpick, it's technically redundant for the Shadow Blending to say "This is a supernatural ability" when you already indicated that with the (Su). Actually, you might want to look at the Shadow Mastiff's (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/shadowMastiff.htm) Shadow Blend ability for that (for how it interacts with light spells).

okay, I'll look into that.

Edit: It's been edited.

[RedWarlock]

The Wikipedia article is referring to the 3.5 Shadar-Kai, from Fiend Folio. They were fey creatures native to the Plane of Shadow. In 4e, they dropped the Fey part (because Fey meant you were native to the Feywild) and made them refugee humans instead, because the Shadowfell didn't need 'shadow-elves' which was what a straight conversion would have made them, and the lore of the Shadowfell says it doesn't really foster life, just undeath.

[jedipilot24]

The Wikipedia article is referring to the 3.5 Shadar-Kai, from Fiend Folio. They were fey creatures native to the Plane of Shadow. In 4e, they dropped the Fey part (because Fey meant you were native to the Feywild) and made them refugee humans instead, because the Shadowfell didn't need 'shadow-elves' which was what a straight conversion would have made them, and the lore of the Shadowfell says it doesn't really foster life, just undeath.

Yes, well, that's my version 3 but the only feedback I was getting was 'they're fey, they're supposed to be fey, make them fey' so I made them back into fey. Now I get an argument for the contrary. Incidentally, I agree with you which is I wanted to make them Feyblooded instead of full-fledged Fey. I suppose I could make a version 5 that is like 3 except without the Feyblooded part.

[Frathe]

Yes, well, that's my version 3 but the only feedback I was getting was 'they're fey, they're supposed to be fey, make them fey' so I made them back into fey.Hey, that was from one person, and it's not like I care much either way; I was just saying what Wikipedia said. If these are meant to be a conversion of the 4e ones, then just revert it to humanoid type, and take out all the fey-related stuff if you want to; I really don't care about that specific point and never did. I was just trying to help. And I certainly provided other feedback, so I don't know what you mean saying "that's the only feedback I was getting".

[jedipilot24]

Hey, that was from one person, and it's not like I care much either way; I was just saying what Wikipedia said. If these are meant to be a conversion of the 4e ones, then just revert it to humanoid type, and take out all the fey-related stuff if you want to; I really don't care about that specific point and never did. I was just trying to help. And I certainly provided other feedback, so I don't know what you mean saying "that's the only feedback I was getting".

I about sarcastic, I didn't mean to offend.

[Frathe]

I about sarcastic, I didn't mean to offend.If you mean you were being sarcastic, sorry. I didn't realize. I was just annoyed you didn't seem to notice or care about my other input.

[LordErebus12]

im inclined to think that the fey renditions are better.