I'm on a Boat!

[zoobob9]

My next campaign will be on a boat, and I have no idea what sort of character would be useful.

ECL 6. Completes, Core, and Stormwrack are allowed. We will be off of the boat at points, just island hopping and whatnot.

My first idea was a sunder master to break other people's boats. Then I realized that we're going to be underwater. Is there any way to do this and have it still be useful underwater?

Are there any classes or builds that are particularly useful on seafaring campaigns? I'm open to all ideas except mages, a Captain, or grapple masters, as those are the two spots that are already being filled by the group.

[gallagher]

because it is underwater, i suggest taking a race with a swim speed. the hold breath ability is pretty key.

I suggest that whatever role you take, to roll a cleric and modify it to fill that role, so that you always have access to a spell that can help you stay underwater longer than you would hopefully need (waterbreathing is a 3rd level cleric spell). Because you want to sunder masts and wreck ships, just take the feats, and once you are level 7 you can use divine power to be a potent sunderer. adamantine weapon will help.

also, why not druid? Wildshape into something that can breath under water, have a shark animal companion (that you can train to ride), and you can wildshape into stuff or summon monsters that can break things on enemy boats.

finally, remember that there is nothing more fun that burning ships. you dont have to be big and strong to start a fire.

[gallagher]

For example, as a darfellan druid, you could have a shark patrolling around the enemy boat, you could be riding it and hold your breath for 8xCon rounds (thats the con score, not the modifier).

You prepared Water Breathing twice that day, assuming you have no extra spells, so you spontaneously convert one of them into SNA3, and summon one of these bad boys (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/thoqqua.htm)on top of their boat. Command it to attach the ship, not the crew, and it will burn to cinders while you swim victory laps around the boat.

[fryplink]

The Aquatic Template might be your friend. I believe you take a mild Dex-penalty, but can breathe water. This is assuming you're not playing a rogue or similar skill money (drop a point or two in Swim, instead).

Any broad-list prepared caster will do wonders, as usual. Wildshape Ranger could be cool (I'm a dolphin/shark!) , if you don't want to take the obvious path.

A raptoran or other winged race could also be cool, flying other to other ships.

Artificer or Warlock could be fun, by having the correct item for various situations, as well as the humongous array of alchemy items that are spread throughout 3.5. Take a look at shak's haversack. Freezing water could be fun, going all titanic on bad ships.

Being prepared in mind, Factotum could be a great compromise. A little of this and that. You could still go aquatic template, skip swim (you'd have a swim speed), and be sure to always have the right item with you. Lots of glorious (and cheap) items that are extra useful on an enclosed wooden space surrounded by water, treated with flammable pine-tar. Follow that with the light spell casting, and dynamic skill list, you'd feel useful all the time!

[ksbsnowowl]

I second Druid. Burn the enemy sails with produce flame and the like, never fear drowning once you hit 5th level, and eventually summon Treats to batter your enemy's ship to splinters.

Oh, and Kelpstrand...

[Wookie-ranger]

Dread Necromancer might be an option. If you are undead (necropolitan) you do not breath, neither do your minions.
undead sharks, dolphins, octopi?

[MidgetMarine]

Legendary Captain.

Right there.

You need naval capabilities?
Legendary Captain.

[ArcturusV]

Well, just make sure you don't fall into the trap of being so specialized for underwater operations that when things hit Land you suddenly start sucking. This means in part avoiding races like a Sea Elf where if you don't submerge yourself in water every, what, 8 hours you start taking penalties for no good reason. Presume there will be island bits where you need landbound expertise as well.

Barbarian is interestingly useful in a seafaring campaign. Being limited to light armor means you don't have to worry about getting knocked overboard. The rage bonus to Strength can help with a lot of the skill based movement that shipboard life might include like climbing rigging, jumping to an enemy ship, etc. While still being a beast in combat which matters because almost any DM, if you're stuck on a boat, is going to have at least one scene per adventure where you have to repel boarders and prevent them from sinking your boat.

For a similar reason I like the Sohei for it. You get a combination of Barbarian-esque utility with some Paladin swing (And a lack of heavy equipment dependency, no plate armor, heavy shields, no useless heavy warhorse summoning, minor spellcasting which can be important at sea, etc).

One thing to really watch out for is the usefulness of even low level magic at sea. In my experience you'd be surprised how many seemingly silly spells at Level 0 or 1 suddenly become insanely useful when you're on a tiny boat surrounded by miles and miles of salt water.

[Ivellius]

I'm going to suggest making an Aquatic Elf, because they're in the Monster Manual and have no listed LA. So long as you're not taking an Int-based class, they actually have a better ability adjustment than regular elves. Because you can then breathe underwater, you could go with a Sunder build and not worry about drowning and/or being unable to move in water.

[Squirrel_Dude]

Archery, or something that's good at ranged combat if you think that will be available to you in the setting.

Boats are pretty big objects that you can spot a mile away, and take a long time to actually get close enough to where melee is a real option. Being able to kill half the enemy crew before they get to is a nice way to get a bunch of attacks.


If you want to go melee then you'll be on the 40 ft x 20 ft deck of a ship with atleast 20 other guys. Cleave will be your friend.

[Zanthy1]

Be a mermaid. Class? irrelevant, you are a mermaid. Go bard if you must, and have long red hair and a seashell bra.

[Ashtagon]

Be a mermaid. Class? irrelevant, you are a mermaid. Go bard if you must, and have long red hair and a seashell bra.

This thread is now diamonds.

[Rubik]

I've always wanted to play a warforged shaper psion/constructor in a seagoing campaign (with the buoyant armor ability on their plating, or a lesser armor crystal of aquatic action). You wouldn't believe how useful they can be in such a game, what with energy walls to toss on top of the water before the ships so they run right through them, and mobile artillery constructs to take out pirate crews, and the ability to create vehicles for the party if the ship suddenly dies.

I'm so excited now.

[edit] Technically not a mage.

[Miriad]

Dread Pirate. Take over the ship.

[Rubik]

Dread Necromancer might be an option. If you are undead (necropolitan) you do not breath, neither do your minions.That is not a verb.

[Pechvarry]

Dread Necromancer

Dread Pirate Roberts.

With a crew of zombies.

Literary accuracy, and all that.

[Zanthy1]

Barbarian is interestingly useful in a seafaring campaign. Being limited to light armor means you don't have to worry about getting knocked overboard. The rage bonus to Strength can help with a lot of the skill based movement that shipboard life might include like climbing rigging, jumping to an enemy ship, etc. While still being a beast in combat which matters because almost any DM, if you're stuck on a boat, is going to have at least one scene per adventure where you have to repel boarders and prevent them from sinking your boat.

So I second the barbarian idea, however if you want to go a class that uses heavy armor, there is a super super cool thing available to you. In the Dragon Magic book (I believe page 12?) is something called Dragon scale Husk. To get it you must have dragon blood (so many ways to get that at level one, many found in this same book) and you must be 1st level to take it, and you must have your first class level be proficient with heavy armor. This replaces said proficiency, and makes it so you never wear armor.

You grow a thick scale hide sort of thing, that acts as armor. It provides AC 6 + one third the class level of the class that granted the heavy armor proficiency. (So at level 3, it gives 7 AC, at level 6 you get 8 AC. It scales with you as you level up.) It has a check penalty of -4 and a Max dex of +2. It has no arcane spell failure, and doe snot cause fatigue when slept in. This essentially becomes your skin (there are ways to remove it, but it'll grow back). It also grants resistance to all the energy types starting at 5th level and increasing every 5 thereafter. (So at 5th level you get resist 5, 10th level resist 10 etc.)

It is a super cool ability, check it out!

[Toliudar]

So I second the barbarian idea, however if you want to go a class that uses heavy armor, there is a super super cool thing available to you. In the Dragon Magic book (I believe page 12?) is something called Dragon scale Husk. To get it you must have dragon blood (so many ways to get that at level one, many found in this same book) and you must be 1st level to take it, and you must have your first class level be proficient with heavy armor. This replaces said proficiency, and makes it so you never wear armor.

You grow a thick scale hide sort of thing, that acts as armor. It provides AC 6 + one third the class level of the class that granted the heavy armor proficiency. (So at level 3, it gives 7 AC, at level 6 you get 8 AC. It scales with you as you level up.) It has a check penalty of -4 and a Max dex of +2. It has no arcane spell failure, and doe snot cause fatigue when slept in. This essentially becomes your skin (there are ways to remove it, but it'll grow back). It also grants resistance to all the energy types starting at 5th level and increasing every 5 thereafter. (So at 5th level you get resist 5, 10th level resist 10 etc.)

It is a super cool ability, check it out!

Dragonscale husk may be fun for flavour reasons, or in a very low-wealth survivalist campaign. The difficulties in this context are that you can't layer other abilities onto the armour, it still has a penalty to movement skills, and takes a while to get off. I'd only take it if you really wanted to have dragon scales, not as a matter of mechanical efficiency.

[Zanthy1]

Dragonscale husk may be fun for flavour reasons, or in a very low-wealth survivalist campaign. The difficulties in this context are that you can't layer other abilities onto the armour, it still has a penalty to movement skills, and takes a while to get off. I'd only take it if you really wanted to have dragon scales, not as a matter of mechanical efficiency.

True, but it is cool lol

[8wGremlin]

Be a mermaid. Class? irrelevant, you are a mermaid. Go bard if you must, and have long red hair and a seashell bra.

You could do this if allowed.

Greensnake Naga from OA +1 LA
Amphibious template +0 LA stormwrack

You have high Con, be a totemist, or a dragon fire adept

Swim up and then breath fire on enemy ships, although this doesn't work underwater I don't think.

[vhfforever]

Play a baby Scrag (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Scrag) Barbarian and just use the special qualities and adjustments, and not the hit dice. Go Barbarian/Whatever into Bear Warrior or something else amazing. Don't worry about anyone or anything, just be awesome because you're a Scrag, and too dumb to care. And also, special commando tactics to cut holes in their boats from underneath.

Aquatic special commando death bears.

It's almost a necessity.

[8wGremlin]

Play a baby Scrag (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Scrag) Barbarian and just use the special qualities and adjustments, and not the hit dice. Go Barbarian/Whatever into Bear Warrior or something else amazing. Don't worry about anyone or anything, just be awesome because you're a Scrag, and too dumb to care. And also, special commando tactics to cut holes in their boats from underneath.

Aquatic special commando death bears.

It's almost a necessity.

Er vhfforever, that's not how the rules work... it's an all or nothing thing with racial hit dice, and LA.

A Scrag is 6 RHD + 5 LA = an 11th level Character....

[vhfforever]

Er vhfforever, that's not how the rules work... it's an all or nothing thing with racial hit dice, and LA.

A Scrag is 6 RHD + 5 LA = an 11th level Character....

That's why you ask the DM all nice-like if you can just drop the RHD and keep the LA. It's all their call, anyway, why not try and have fun with it?

[Greenish]

Speaking of underwater adventures, one of Saph's campaign journals mentioned an item that'd let you hold your breath for 12 hours, anyone know what that is and where it's from?

[8wGremlin]

Amphibious Anthropomorphic baleen whale 3HD
Large size, could be useful for something

[only1doug]

Be anything you like but buy a crystal of greater aquatic action (3000gp).

[HalfQuart]

I've always liked the idea of using Flying Fish Leap from Stormwrack, with some mild jump optimization, to be able to swim along and leap onto the deck of an enemy ship. I've never had an opportunity to build/play such a character, but it's a cinematically fun idea.

[Gavinfoxx]

-You don't want hold breath, if you have access to breathe saltwater, freshwater, AND air. Find an amphibious race, perhaps?
-You want a Swim speed, really.
-A Climb speed would be nice, too.
-A fly speed would be nice, too
-Freedom of Movement is useful as well... Heart of Water spell, perhaps?
-Consider a Druid? A Core Druid can do all of the above.

[nedz]

If you are doing ship to ship combat, in reasonable visibility, range is initiative.
Fire is also good.

If you want to do boarding then flying in is faster than swimming, ideally invisibly.

All of this is pointing to Wizard with Invisibility, Fly and Fireball.

You could so Sorcerer, but you need to be 7th.

[8wGremlin]

Druid swim underwater and cast Wood Rot (http://dndtools.eu/spells/complete-arcane--55/wood-rot--576/) on the hull...

glug glug glug... true it is a 5th level spell, and the only protection really if for the hull to be magical...

[zoobob9]

What I'm hearing from everyone:


Druids are nice

If you're not going to be a druid, make sure you have the ability to swim/breathe/etc.

Make sure you can fight from a distance

Your race should be Blah, whereas Blah is really wacky template abuse.


The DM wants me to work with the catapults/ballistas/whatnot, so Druid might not be the best option. Maybe it is though. I have no idea.

As of right now, if I don't do druid, I'm thinking of going down the good old Bull Rush feat tree with some extra "focus" on the heavy weapons. Catapults at long range, Bull Rush at short range...seems balanced enough for this campaign. (Normally I would hyperoptimize Bull Rush, but this is specifically low op.)

So for that...I'm thinking the Amphibious Anthropomorphic Baleen Whale. I would have to bring in the Anthropomorphic template and the Knockback feat from outside books, but others are bringing in outside things as well, so my DM should allow it.

Are Harpoons worth my time? The whole "Stick in the enemy, pull out for same damage, attached to a rope" thing sounds like it could be useful, but is it worth the Exotic Weapon Proficiency?

[Gavinfoxx]

All Druids have the ability to swim and breathe water at level 6. Class feature.

[ArcturusV]

I haven't messed with Harpoons. I HAVE used Nets. And some "off the books" finagling with my DM to make them even better. Things like "Well if I made this net out of silk and steel it should be more effective than this presumed crude hempen one in the book." "Hmm... okay.. craft it if you can, I'll set the DC, if successful it jacks up the DCs on the target" and such.

Which I've found VERY useful, and not just in waterborne campaigns. Though as I recall Nets get bonuses under water which make them even better. So yeah.

It was worth the feat.

[zoobob9]

All Druids have the ability to swim and breathe water at level 6. Class feature.

...do you mean casting 3rd level spells?

Also, I'm not certain if druids would or would not be good with the large scale weapons. It seems more like a fighter or barbarian sort of thing, at least when it comes to roleplaying.

[ArcturusV]

Depends on how your DM judges they are used. Exotic weapons? Better with a Fighter since it has the feats to burn. Based off a Knowledge (Engineering) or Profession check? Then not really a fighter or Barbarian as they should be burning their skill points on other, important skills like Swim, Jump, Climb, Profession (Sailor) (Everyone should have it if you're going on a boat campaign), Balance, and at that point you're talking about pretty much all their skill points (Or more).

[Gavinfoxx]

...do you mean casting 3rd level spells?

No, Wild Shape, silly! Also Spells. But mostly Wild Shape and Natural Spell.

[zoobob9]

No, Wild Shape, silly! Also Spells. But mostly Wild Shape and Natural Spell.

Ahh, alright. I never really got into druids, so I'm a bit confused on the class. I should probably skim a handbook before I make my final decision, but I'm good with Bull Rush Builds, so I'm leaning more towards that. With Druid, that's 2 wild shapes a day, but the spellcasting is always nice...I'll choose later.

[Gavinfoxx]

So 2 Wild shapes a day at level 6 = 12 hours in animal form a day. At level 8, that means you are Wild Shaped for 24/7. Remember, methods of communicating while in Wild Shape exist, from the Dungeon Master's Guide to the Magic Item Compendium.

[nedz]

There is also the Elemental Companion Druid ACF (CM, p 33). This would give you a medium water elemental which could be useful for rescuing people, carrying you and putting out fires. The standard ACs aren't brilliant for boating.

[Borin_Ungart]

I say go fighter or barbarian with the Darfellan race. Place yourself in the catapult. Launch yourself at the other ships. And based on the laws of awesome reckless stunts, You land on the other ship 75% of the time. And then you just slaughter all the right people, and try to take over the boat.

[Gavinfoxx]

Or just make your ship a carrier, and buy everyone some mounts. Seriously, the cheapest (large size) flying mount in D&D is 800 gp!!

800! Gp!

[ArcturusV]

Heh. Been reading Dragons of the Emerald Sea? John Ringo's "Dragon Carrier". Lots of fun. Plus the stuff suggested in it means that you wouldn't require a lot of magic to make it work. Magic would just make the concept better.

But yeah, Carrier Ops are problematic, even in DnD for reasons most players don't get into, or things that the game usually abstracts out. But you gotta imagine if you did run a carrier suddenly your DM would be asking for things like Balance Checks to properly make landings on a rolling deck, etc. And I don't think most mounts have Balance as a skill, meaning expect a lot of aborted landings where your mount needs to circle around and try again. Can't take 20 because massive failure probably means crashing into the ship and doing damage. Expect the DM to suddenly start making fatigue checks and such as you go on long missions and have to keep struggling to make landings. Expect people to fall into the drink quite often (And take damage from it), etc.

[Gavinfoxx]

You can take 10 when there is a chance of massive failure. Just not if there is a huge storm, and if there is a huge storm, you shouldn't be flying. Also, most of the things that you would be flying on are, you know, animals, and can land on their own -- instinctively -- and don't land the same way planes do. Seriously. Watch a bird land on a tree branch sometime! The whole backwing to slow down maneuver? Planes can't do that...

[Fyermind]

As for using the artillery on board, I'd go fighter or artificer and specialize in the ballista (which one depends on the tier of your teammates). Either way you want to enchant that badboy well. See if you can get one based off a Great Crossbow instead of a heavy crossbow. Take two feats for proficiency if you have to as a fighter. The extra threat range and d8 of damage is nice enough to be worth it. Really though you want hand crossbow focus and the Aptitude weapon enhancement. With that you can go volley archer on them with a ballista. Splitting is another good one to grab later if possible.

Artificer can also repair the ship and make regular upgrades. I'd go with a party of Druid, Artificer (Archer and buffer/healer), Legendary Captain (fighter 4 with targeteer, Ranger 2 as an archer), and Psion Shaper.

The fighter wouldn't be quite as effective a character on his own, but since he'd be steering the ship he'd have some of the strongest battlefield control out there, so I wouldn't feel too bad about it. Also he'd be able to lay down the law the the ballista at long range and could control the crew too.

[8wGremlin]

Amphibious silverbrow human bard
DFI get your crew to fire bows and do extra fire damage

[ArcturusV]

Although I'd REALLY stress not using fire on a ship. No matter how effective you think it'll be. Strictly because it will bite you in the ass. And do so at a horrible, horrible time. Not even a question of IF. It's a question of WHEN.

[Rubik]

Although I'd REALLY stress not using fire on a ship. No matter how effective you think it'll be. Strictly because it will bite you in the ass. And do so at a horrible, horrible time. Not even a question of IF. It's a question of WHEN.Go for sonic or acid. Almost nothing resists sonic or acid.

Or find a way to do both, and claim to be an acid rock bard.

[Fyermind]

It is kind of the rule of people who rely on boats to stay afloat that you don't attack the opposing ships with fire unless you KNOW it will work. If they strike back it can end up killing everyone when both ships sink.

[Borin_Ungart]

From what i am reading, Fire seems to be a great idea. And flying carrier creatures. So combine those ideas, Get flaming Griffins or something of the sort.

[Tuki Tuki]

I think you should listen to Ungart. By the way, Welcome to Hawaii!


Wanna buy some stones?