Brawler 3.5e Base Class [A little help?]

[Paintomancer]

Hey,

I had this idea for a gritty, tough as nails melee fighter who is determined to survive and can accomplish amazing feats of strength without having to relay on special feats or maneuvers. He doesn't need many new mechanics and should be relatively easy to play.

I tried to stick to these guidelines while creating the Brawler class:
(0. A Brawler does not need spells or maneuvers to function)
1. A Brawler is sure to come out of melee without any serious injuries and has decent protection against save-or-death or save-or-suck magic effects.
2. A Brawler should be able to at least hurt every opponent he may encounter, should that opponent fly, be incorporeal or have damage-reduction.

The Brawler

Abilities: Strength is the Brawlers most important ability, since he will spend most of his time in the thick of melee combat. A high Constitution score will boost his Feat of Strength class ability and hence his effectiveness. A decent Dexterity score may come in handy for the enhanced AC and attacks of opportunity.

Alignment: Any
Hit Die: d10

Class Skills: The Brawlers class-skills are Climb (Str), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Profession (Wis) and Swim (Str).
Skill Points per Level: 4 + Int Modifier

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+1|
+2|
+2|
+2|Feat of Strength, Powerful Joints

2nd|
+2|
+3|
+3|
+3|Resolve(1)

3rd|
+3|
+3|
+3|
+3|Melee Specialist +1

4th|
+4|
+4|
+4|
+4|Resolve(2)

5th|
+5|
+4|
+4|
+4|If it bleeds...

6th|
+6/+1|
+5|
+5|
+5|Resolve(3)

7th|
+7/+2|
+5|
+5|
+5|Melee Specialist +2

8th|
+8/+3|
+6|
+6|
+6|Resolve(4)

9th|
+9/+4|
+6|
+6|
+6|Whirlwind Attack

10th|
+10/+5|
+7|
+7|
+7|Resolve(5)

11th|
+11/+6/+1|
+7|
+7|
+7|Melee Specialist +3

12th|
+12/+7/+2|
+8|
+8|
+8|Resolve(6)

13th|
+13/+8/+3|
+8|
+8|
+8|...we can kill it.

14th|
+14/+9/+4|
+9|
+9|
+9|Resolve(7)

15th|
+15/+10/+5|
+9|
+9|
+9|Melee Specialist +4

16th|
+16/+11/+6/+1|
+10|
+10|
+10|Resolve(8)

17th|
+17/+12/+7/+2|
+10|
+10|
+10|Size matters

18th|
+18/+13/+8/+3|
+11|
+11|
+11|Resolve(9)

19th|
+19/+14/+9/+4|
+11|
+11|
+11|Melee Specialist +5

20th|
+20/+15/+10/+5|
+12|
+12|
+12|Veteran, Resolve(10)[/table]

Class Features

Weapon and Armor Proficiency:
The Brawler is proficient with all simple and martial weapons and with all armors and shields.

Feat of Strength [Ex]: A Brawler may show impressive physical strength for short periods of time. Each day, a Brawler may add 5 + his Constitution modifier to strength-related skill checks, melee attack and damage rolls for one round per Brawler class level. The rounds he adds this bonus need not be consecutive.

Powerful Joints [Ex]: A Brawler adds his Brawler class level to all Climb and Jump checks.

Resolve [Ex]: A Brawler is determined to leave combat alive and may call upon impressive reserves. Starting at second level, a Brawler gains one temporary hit point per round with a maximum of one. This hit point is used up before any other hit points the Brawler may have at the moment. While the Brawler has a temporary hit point from the Resolve class ability, he also gains a +2 morale bonus on saves versus spells and effects with the death and charm descriptor. Every two class levels after the second, the maximum and generation of temporary hit points increases by one.

Melee Specialist [Ex]: Starting at third level, a Brawler gains a +1 competence bonus on all checks for combat maneuvers like trip, bull rush, sunder, overrun and grapple checks. Add this bonus to the bonus granted by the "aid another" and "total defense" actions as well as to damage rolls made by the Brawler with melee weapons or unarmed strikes. This bonus increases by one every four class levels after the third.

If it bleeds... [Ex]: A Brawler can hurt any opponent he dislikes hard enough. For purposes of melee damage dealts by a brawler of fifth level or higher, count any damage reduction a target may have as if five points lower.

Whirlwind Attack A Brawler of ninth level or higher is not afraid to battle an army by himself. He gets the Whirlwind Attack feat for free, even if he does not have the normal prerequisites for that feat.

...we can kill it [Ex]: Starting at thirteenth level, a Brawler can hurt anything that exists. When a Brawler hits an opponent with a melee attack, but doesn't deal damage due to damage reduction, the target being incorporeal or any other effect that may be negating damage, the Brawler still deals damage up to his Brawler class level, but not more damage than he would have dealt without damage negating effects.

Size matters [Ex]: Hundreds of fights have left the brawler ultra-muscular and with a perfect balance. For purposes of opposing checks (i.e. grapple checks), carrying and lifting weight and weapon use count a Brawler of seventeenth or higher level as one size category larger, if beneficient.

Veteran [Ex]: A Brawler of twentieth level is expert at avoiding damage. While he is taking a Full Defense action, every attack throw against the Brawler misses automatically without a roll and he succeeds on all saving throws.

........................

Well, I don't know how to tackle the problem with flying enemies. I think the brawler should be able to suckerpunch a dragon mid-flight if he pleases, but I fear he could get overpowered if I would give him some sort of jump-flying and also wouldn't know which level to fit it in.

Any ideas?

[inexorabletruth]

Before I offer feedback:
This class has already been done, sort of. Have you seen the Fighter Variant: Thug (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm)?

Fluff-wise, it's a Brawler. Crunch-wise, they are quite different. So my next question is:

Are you intending to fix the Thug with this Brawler variant?

[inexorabletruth]

As for the actual homebrew you built, I have a few thoughts:


Good BAB and good saves seems unbalanced. I'd give him a good save, and let him keep his good BAB.
Feat of Strength seems complicated, and implies a lot of bookkeeping for a simple bruiser class. I'd replace it with first level Bonus Feats instead, like Improved Unarmed Strike, Combat Expertise, or Combat Reflexes (since your building a class that focuses on diving into the thick of a mook horror show).
Powerful Build is not a feat, as far as I know. It's a racial trait. Let the player decide that for himself when he picks his race.
The Resolve ability is a little soft core. I'd give Die Hard or a Fast Healing variant. Marshall and Dragon Shaman have Vigor as an aura that grants a weak version of Fast Healing that you may be interested in.
Melee Specialist is also a bit too complicated. I like where you're going with it, but I think a better way to do this, would be to apply a bonus feat. There is one that does most of what you want it to: beefs up trip, bull rush, sunder, overrun and grapple, I think. I'll look around for the feat.
I like "If it Bleeds…", but you'd do better to just emulate the Ki Strike ability from the monk. Instead of reducing DR effect, just treat his melee attack as magic for the purpose of overcoming DR.
I don't know how much I like "The Bigger the Foe." Basically, it's confusing and a deviant from the theme. You're building a Brawler, but now he's turning into a grappler. Grapplers don't really need much. The feats that make grapplers great already exist and you don't need much build experience to make a functional grappler. I'd replace this entirely with AC buffs, AoO boosts, or special attacks, like a free trip with a successful attack.
"… we can kill it" Is entirely unnecessary. By 13th level, a PC will have so much swag they can do this anyway.
The rest looks pretty good. But I'd like to see this class get Spring Attack and Whirlwind Attack as bonus feats, even if they don't meet the pre-reqs. They're very fun feats, but have a fairly brutal feat tax.

[Belial_the_Leveler]

So a dwarf brawler at lvl 20 with a +13 constitution modifier could increase his strength to 550 for 1 round, or 134 for 5 rounds? (assuming his base strength is 30).


How does the "Veteran" ability interact with attacks that don't miss? I.e. a natural 20 always hits while the Veteran ability says it would always miss. Which takes precedence? Also, what about attacks that deal damage without attack rolls (magic missile, wall of fire, acid fog and others) or don't allow a saving throw?

[Just to Browse]

I want to go inexorabletruth right off the bat and say that full BAB + all good saves is totally fine and I recommend keeping it that way. Just about everything else he says is fine.

The worst bit about this class (and the thing that makes it so weird) is the 10xCon to Strength. You want to make this guy hit hard and jump crazy and I admire that, but I think you should parcel out individual bonuses because right now you're just encouraging the player to burn their Str on attacks since they'll be the most useful.

Something like 1/hour +20 to Jump would be great, and something like 1/encounter +10 Str would be viable, but you shouldn't combine those mechanics.

[Paintomancer]

Thanks for the feedback, guys.

inexorabletruth: No, I did not have the intention to fix an existing class. I guess there are only so many ways one can imagine a melee fighter.
Regarding your additions:

Good BAB and good saves seems unbalanced. I'd give him a good save, and let him keep his good BAB.
I can see where you're coming from but don't really see why this should be imbalanced. Every core base class but the monk have means of upping their saves through spells, class abilities or bonus feats. The monk has perfect saves and trades full BAB for more attacks. As the Brawler doesn't have any means of bettering up his saves but spending precious feats, I would like to keep it that way.

Feat of Strength seems complicated, and implies a lot of bookkeeping for a simple bruiser class. I'd replace it with first level Bonus Feats instead, like Improved Unarmed Strike, Combat Expertise, or Combat Reflexes (since your building a class that focuses on diving into the thick of a mook horror show).
Yeah I agree it is to complicated. I will work it over. I didn't want to create another front-loaded melee class, so I don't like the idea of giving out many feats at early levels.

Powerful Build is not a feat, as far as I know. It's a racial trait. Let the player decide that for himself when he picks his race.
Yeah I think you're right. I don't see why you shouldn't make it a feat, though.

Melee Specialist is also a bit too complicated. I like where you're going with it, but I think a better way to do this, would be to apply a bonus feat. There is one that does most of what you want it to: beefs up trip, bull rush, sunder, overrun and grapple, I think. I'll look around for the feat.
Depends on the feat. I like that the bonus increases with class levels, would the feat account for that, too?

I like "If it Bleeds…", but you'd do better to just emulate the Ki Strike ability from the monk. Instead of reducing DR effect, just treat his melee attack as magic for the purpose of overcoming DR.
But in this version a Brawler overcomes even universal DR objects may have :smallbiggrin: Breaking bricks has never been easier.

I don't know how much I like "The Bigger the Foe." Basically, it's confusing and a deviant from the theme. You're building a Brawler, but now he's turning into a grappler. Grapplers don't really need much. The feats that make grapplers great already exist and you don't need much build experience to make a functional grappler. I'd replace this entirely with AC buffs, AoO boosts, or special attacks, like a free trip with a successful attack.
I agree. I will replace this with something else. Something that improves the Brawlers mobility, I think.

"… we can kill it" Is entirely unnecessary. By 13th level, a PC will have so much swag they can do this anyway.
But he could do it with his fists. Like I wrote, a Brawler should not depend on magic to function.

The rest looks pretty good. But I'd like to see this class get Spring Attack and Whirlwind Attack as bonus feats, even if they don't meet the pre-reqs. They're very fun feats, but have a fairly brutal feat tax.
As a trade-in for "The bigger the foe"?

Belial:
On first thought, I didn't found this overpowered. A full equipped Brawler at level 20 dealing high damage in melee combat for some rounds or extraordinarily high melee damage for one round is as deadly as a naked 11th level wizard true striking + disintegrating from 200 feet away.
I didn't consider saves and SR, though. I will give it an overhaul.

Just to Browse:
Thanks for being honest :smalleek: As written above, I will give this mechanic an overhaul.

[Just to Browse]

But in this version a Brawler overcomes even universal DR objects may have :smallbiggrin: Breaking bricks has never been easier.
That's actually Hardness, and If It Bleeds... does not appear to cover it. I recommend adding it anyways, because it's totally awesome.
Isn't it a little ironic having an ability that involves bleeding to work on things that don't bleed? Last I checked bricks don't even have bodily fluids. You certainly don't need to change it because it's good for a laugh and its mechanically sound, but that's just something to consider.