So mounts... what good are they?

[ahenobarbi]

Is mounted combat any good in 3.5? It gives you some mobility, maybe more damage in melee. Those are nice things but price seems high (skills, feats, maybe dex investment if you want to use it at lower levels).

And what is point of uber mounts? What good are dozens of HD and what not if all they do is carrying you around?

[prufock]

You will want a war-trained mount for most cases.

1. Move + one attack + mount's attack means possibly a little extra damage.
2. Bonus to hit (+1) vs creatures smaller than your mount.
3. Decreased overland travel time.
4. Battlefield control (mount most likely takes up 10 feet instead of 5).
5. Increased carrying capacity.
6. Lances.
7. Mobile cover.

[Gwendol]

Mounted combat is broken in 3.5, in the sense that the rules don't actually work as written. If you plan on using mounted combat, you need to work out with the DM how mounted charge is supposed to work (since the mount is charging, not you, and since the mounted weapon of choice is lance, which has reach which your mount has not, you may end up with either you not being able to attack, or the mount not actually being able to charge). Also, ride by attack doesn't work at all. Best is to trace a line the mount can move along which you can attack the target.

Finally, you have the nonsense of not being able to full attack, even though the mount is moving (not you). This is also an area where I would work out some agreement with the DM. Melee players are especially shafted here, since mounted spellcasters have no such limitation, and mounted archers can do some full attacking while on the move (with feat).

Mounts can fly, burrow, fight, carry heavy loads, etc. If they are intelligent they can guard or perform other services.

[ArcturusV]

It kind of depends. I mean Mounted Combat is often thought of in terms of Horseback. In DnD horseback is pretty much the weakest form of mounted combat, really only suited to low levels (1-5 really, up to 8 might be stretching it and only if you're sinking cash into getting all the mount related gear you can). In those levels, it depends on the setting details to how viable it is. More than any other build terrain and engagement parameters matter more to Mounted Combat. Well, except maybe mundane archery before you start getting seeking splintering ethereal force arrows and such.

The advantages of it later on come from a seldom remembered bit about Mounted Combat (Least a lot of Players I've seen fail to remember it), which is right in the mounted combat feat. That your Ride check can substitute for your Armor Class against attacks. Including Touch Attacks from spell casters. And it's one of the few ways to have AC actually worth a damn at higher level when you can start getting check results much higher than you'd ever be able to realistically boost AC. At least I always found it easier to boost a skill check than to boost AC.

When you get into higher levels, it's more about what your mount can do for you movement wise. Teleportation? Flight? Spider climbing and wall walking? These and a lot more are all options. Which the added benefit that when your DM starts getting ticked at your party and throwing around Disjunctions, AMFs, etc, unlike the guys using Items or Spells to do it, you're still 100% mobile.

The downside is most mounts won't have a lot of HD, and thus HP, unless you are getting into kind of cheesy or esoteric stuff like having an Ancient Bronze Wyrm as your Mount. And while you can boost their AC up, there's not a lot to boost their saves up unless you are running a class with an innate bond, like the Paladin's Warhorse (Though Warhorses are generally inferior mounts at higher levels), or a Druid's Animal Companion (though why a Druid would be doing Mounted Combat I'm not entirely certain). The Paladin's "Share Saving Throws" with their mount is pretty key to keeping them alive, in my experience.

But really the only reason it's not viable is just that most DMs don't seem inclined to run games that support Mounted Combat as a viable tactic. It requires a lot of open room to maneuver to use effectively, leads to running battles rather than static battles. Kind of forces DMs to consider things like formations and mobility beyond what they normally would like to see. Almost requires that battles start at much longer ranges, which means everyone but the dedicated Archer and the mounted combat guy will just be waiting for several rounds, nothing to do.

[ahenobarbi]

Hmm so generally I got the right impression? Unless I have a super mount that is better combatant than me mounts are mostly for utility (travel, carry stuff) and some in-combat mobility.

Thanks.

[Toliudar]

In a lot of cases, I'd pay more than one feat and a few skill points for the addition of in-combat options and maneuverability, and more modes of travel and carrying capacity out of combat. At low-mid levels, even a warhorse can dramatically increase options and survival, for the price of a few ranks in ride (if you even bother).

[Seharvepernfan]

Your question has already been answered, but I still want to chime in.

Generally, a mount needs to be one size larger than you, and no larger, to be effective. That way, they can mostly go down in dungeons with you, which is where they'd need to go in order for your mounted combat abilities to stay relevant. Yes, they shine when outside the dungeon, but most adventuring takes place in dungeons.

Also, the higher level you are, the more robust your mount needs to be.

At low levels, horses/large-harts/dire-wolves/etc work just fine. At medium levels, you need either flight (hippogriff/griffon/pegasus/wyvern) or maybe more serious combat ability (dire boar/heavy-warhorse-with-fullplate-barding). At mid-high levels, their HP/AC/Saves/SR/Int need to be higher. You might want to try and find half-celestial/dragon/fiend flying mounts (or some stranger templates like spellwarped from MM3) for some extra resistances and buffs. At high levels, you basically need a dragon. If you resign yourself to only large-sized core dragons, the copper dragon is the best, as far as I can tell.

How you deal with this is between you and your DM. Some DMs might want you to take Wild Cohort or Leadership to get some of the better high-level mounts, others may just want you to expend proportionally more gold, or roleplay the process.

Another problem is that intelligent mounts can't just be "handled", they can decide to do whatever they want and you need to rely on bluff/diplomacy/intimidate/whatever to deal with them. On the flip side, you can just tell an intelligent mount what you want it to do without making a check.

Also, spirited charge + a dragon with flyby attack....pretty durn cool.

[Psyren]

Another problem is that intelligent mounts can't just be "handled", they can decide to do whatever they want and you need to rely on bluff/diplomacy/intimidate/whatever to deal with them. On the flip side, you can just tell an intelligent mount what you want it to do without making a check.

This is why you get a mount you can control mentally - like an Astral Construct :smalltongue:

[lunar2]

paladin 5, beastmaster 1, halfling outrider 10, legacy champion or faith scion 4.

important feats are devoted tracker and draconic cohort.

your dragon cohort is your special mount (LA +2 over normal). you are a paladin of 18th (legacy champion) or 19th (faith scion) level for the purposes of your special mount. your base ECL 19 (level 18 cohort at 20, +3 free LA from the dragon cohort feat, -2 from being a special mount) dragon cohort gets the full benefit of special mount.

devoted tracker let's your mount count as your animal companion. you are a 17th or 18th level druid for the purposes of animal companion.

you dragon cohort gets the full benefit of being an animal companion.

your mount is medium size, since you are small, so it can fit in any dungeon the rest of the party can.

you stand in the back of the party with a sling, and let your mount do the beatstick thing for you. nothing says you have to actually ride your mount, you know.

[Gavinfoxx]

Yes, mounts are great.

Remember that the cheapest Large flying mount in D&D is 800 gp.

800 gp. For strategic flight!

[ericgrau]

Well a mount and flying mount both have significant advantages even with only a small ride modifier. A bonus to hit, the ability to move far and full attack with a bow or cast. A second attacker too. It's worth it for most people to get one. There are good benefits even if you spend almost nothing. I think many people don't get one mainly because they don't want to bother with the mounted combat rules.

It's true that if you invest a lot more than that into the mount, mounted feats or its gear you risk losing the benefit of everything if the mount is killed. But with the risk comes more benefit, so you need to balance out the two. Heck, I find that -2 level leadership cohorts are likewise fragile and leadership is nonetheless powerful. A leadership cohort is in fact a great way to get a mount. Investing in a strong mount with good defenses may be a good first step before getting too many feats.

[Talderas]

As other may have noted. You may make a full attack while using a ranged weapon when riding a mount that has moved more than 5ft while you are limited to a single attack with melee. The only restriction is that the full attack must be made at the middle of your move.

It used to be a lot better when skirmish damage could be gained while mounted. Then they errata'd that.

[ahenobarbi]

Yes, mounts are great.

Remember that the cheapest Large flying mount in D&D is 800 gp.

800 gp. For strategic flight!

What flying mount is that cheap :smallconfused:

[Eldariel]

Mounts do ridiculous damage early on. Later too if you have pounce. Spirited Charge is the strongest damage feat in Core bar none. I'd always have mounted feats if I didn't have means to charge for damage without a mount since they enable you to contribute when you have to move and attack.

Other than that, really strong utility vs. mundanes but kinda squishy and risky vs. casters. Hard to fit into dungeons tho but still worth it generally for mundanes; casters have Phantom Steeds and stuff.

[Gavinfoxx]

800 gp flying mount?

Glidewing, Eberron Campaign Setting pages 121 & 280.

[Gavinfoxx]

[wrong thread]

[Person_Man]

It's also worth mentioning that you can mount or dismount a creature as a Free Action with a Ride check. This makes mounted options a good choice for any build with Summons. (Which is pretty much every Tier 1 or 2 build, plus the Incarnate, Dread Necromancer, Psychic Warrior, and probably one or two other classes I'm forgetting). You'll always have a level appropriate Summoned mount available, you have a wide variety of different mounts available, it's a minimal cost for any build that was capable of Summons in the first place, and you never have to worry about protecting it in any way.

[Shining Wrath]

Some good feats are available.
1) Ride-by Attack: make a charge attack, keep going. Since your mount has superior move you can attack and escape.

2) Spirited Charge: lance does triple damage on a hit. Not a critical hit; on a hit. If you confirm a critical with a lance on a charge you get 5x damage. Most creatures will notice 5x damage.

Note that Ride-by Attack and Spirited Charge combine.

This, combined with the ability to wear heavy armor and still have superior mobility, can make a mount a good deal. If the mount can also fight on its own behalf (e.g., Brelish bear-mounted cavalry from Eberron), you have a powerful combination.

[Shining Wrath]

What flying mount is that cheap :smallconfused:

Amulet of Vermin - giant wasp for a short period of time.

[LTwerewolf]

As far as your question about the ubermount goes: you're playing the mount as a character and the actual character is a backup.

[Shining Wrath]

Mounts can fly, burrow, fight, carry heavy loads, etc. If they are intelligent they can guard or perform other services.

Not just intelligent - a magebred animal (INT 2) can be trained to warn.

[TopCheese]

What are they good for? Absolutely nuthin! *jackie chan and chris tucker dances*

Hmm I need to watch rush hour again

[Spuddles]

Mounts are great. Triple damage with a lance, extreme mobility despite being a gnome in full plate, flight, burrowing, scent, blindsight, astral projection, etc.

Small races get to ride medium mounts, which include things like Magebred Riding Dogs, Blink Dogs, young dragons, and dire bats.

At low levels, spirited charge + lance is the best way to get a lot of damage, and at virtually all levels, a mount is the only way to get mundane flight for cheap.

Use wild cohort feat to get a ballin mount.

[The Grue]

How is Pathfinder with the mounted combat thing, as compared to 3.5?

[Eldariel]

How is Pathfinder with the mounted combat thing, as compared to 3.5?

They really didn't change much in that regard.

[Vaz]

Is mounted combat any good in 3.5? It gives you some mobility, maybe more damage in melee. Those are nice things but price seems high (skills, feats, maybe dex investment if you want to use it at lower levels).

And what is point of uber mounts? What good are dozens of HD and what not if all they do is carrying you around?

Get a Dragon Mount. Dragons advance by HD. Bonus HD advances Dragon HD. Dragons advance age Category. Congratulations, your character is now a 99HD Dragon with a 20HD Rider who occasionally shoots at people still alive after your Full Attack option consisting of Bite, Clawx2, Wing Buffet, Tail Slap.