Hivemind? for undead?

[Wookie-ranger]

This is a two part question.

1. How to get a hive mind? The easiest way that I found is the "hive mind" ring (arms&equipment p.125) but that is 180,000 per ring. It is expensive but easy because you can simply throw it on your finger and 'Bam, hive mind!'

2. Can undead have a hive mind? even mindless ones? The ring mentioned above would work, mainly since it does not says that you have to be able to think. (but then again, the whole "my buddy 1/2 a mile away is not flat footed therefore i am not either" is broken, too)


I would rather not give things the swarm template, but I am open for suggestions.

[Andreaz]

2. Can undead have a hive mind? even mindless ones?The dead walk and you worry about whether they feel the tingle of their dead buddies in their heads?
I would rather not give things the swarm template, but I am open for suggestions.Horde :D Like swarm, but for mobs.

[ArcturusV]

Well, by RAW, probably not. The only surefire, effective way I can think of to arrange Hiveminds is by Dark Speech. And Dark Speech specifically mentions it only works on Animals and Vermin of less than 1 HD. And Undead Templates all say "This becomes an Undead and is no longer it's previous types" and such.

If you could get a DM to make an exception for it, then you could have something like a horde of Zombie Crabs of 1 HD, bound together in a Hivemind by Dark Speech (Which allows you to give them one Suggestion as per the spell).

Though undead creation is typically expensive enough that being able to do that for some 500 Crabs or Rats, some mass actually worth Hiveminding, is probably not a viable method.

But Dark Speech is by far the easiest method of creating Hiveminds that I've seen. You take 1d4 Con damage (So hit yourself with a Lesser Restoration or just wait at most 4 days between uses if you're worried about it). You create a hivemind, and can give them a single order. Only costs a feat that is somewhat easy to get to. Level 3 at least as it requires a +5 base Will Save (Just multiclass into 3 classes with good Will Saves), and 15 Int and Cha.

[Rubik]

It wouldn't work on any undead that doesn't have a soul (or is JUST a soul), but the dvati race from Dragon Compendium is automatically hive-minded, albeit only between the two of them. If you Shapechange into a black pudding, however, and make use of the Split property, you can have as many bodies as you like. Then go necropolitan with them all and enjoy being a hiveminded undead that stays that way even across planar boundaries.

[PurpleSocks]

I would argue that a lich/necropolitan formians would'nt loose their hive mind abilities. And if it doesnt work RAW then fudge it with your DM powers, so long as you apply CR adjustments your players have nothing to worry about.

(apart from the hive of lich/necropolitan formians).

[Talderas]

Though undead creation is typically expensive enough that being able to do that for some 500 Crabs or Rats, some mass actually worth Hiveminding, is probably not a viable method.

It's not that expensive....

Rats are 1/4 HD (not sure of crab). So 500 rats is only 125HD of undead. At 50gp/HD for animate dead you're only talking 6,250 gold.

[ShurikVch]

Rancid Beetle Swarm and Rancid Beetle Zombie from Sharn: City of Towers.
Use a Vermin Lord's CF Hivemind on RBS, use RBS to create and control some RBZ.

[Wookie-ranger]

I would argue that a lich/necropolitan formians wouldn't loose their hive mind abilities. And if it doesnt work RAW then fudge it with your DM powers, so long as you apply CR adjustments your players have nothing to worry about.

(apart from the hive of lich/necropolitan formians).

Undead Formians now there is an idea!
Take over a hive, kill everything, animate them as "something", if need be cast awaken undead to get the Hivemind(EX) back.



It wouldn't work on any undead that doesn't have a soul (or is JUST a soul), but the dvati race from Dragon Compendium is automatically hive-minded, albeit only between the two of them. If you Shapechange into a black pudding, however, and make use of the Split property, you can have as many bodies as you like. Then go necropolitan with them all and enjoy being a hiveminded undead that stays that way even across planar boundaries.

Well, technically it never says that undead do not have souls :smallbiggrin:
but point taken; it is fair to assume that mindless undead do not have souls.

The black pudding infinite clone mechanic would not work well for me. It is too much cheese for my plate. But i will keep it in mind for a work-around (may be a BBEG)