3.5 DM ?: Magical Item Creation (Everyone Flee for Your Sanity...)

[Adept_Scholar]

So here goes attempts at trying to get the mechanics of 3.5 magical item creation down (I get a distinct feeling I will likely be posting to this thread quite often :smallannoyed:)...I shall try not to overwhelm anyone (as I am already so after staring between Tables 7-32 & 7-33 on pgs. 284 & 285 in the D.M. Guide for a good bit), so let me try and start small, say, concerning the creation of a couple of rings outlined in the D.M. Guide. I began by taking a look at the first listed ring, "Animal Friendship" (pg. 230) and using Table 7-33 came to understand how the price of 10,800gp was derived: spell level 1 x caster level 3 x 1,800gp=5,400 cost to create x 2=market price of 10,800gp. Simple enough; however, my contentment didn't last long as I began to take a look at two other rings: Ring of Protection+3 & Ring of the Ram (pg. 232). How is the market price (8,600gp) for the Ring of the Ram derived? Similarly, the price for the Ring of Protection+3 is shown as 18,000, but that is what I come up as the ring's creation cost (3 squared x 2,000gp=18,000gp)...:smallconfused:

[herrhauptmann]

As for Ring of the Ram, its price can't be reverse-engineered using the magic item creation guidelines, because it (and many other items) doesn't actually follow them. It's one of those tricky items that don't actually use the spell(s) listed in their creation requirements, which leads us to assume the price was altered to match whatever WotC's staff determined to be appropriate for its given abilities.

Did the ring of the ram exist before 3.0? If so, the price would probably a legacy thing. It costs 8600 now, because some writer 20 years ago thought it should cost 8600.
D&D is full of items and rules like that.

[RFLS]

Would it be worth it to have a handbook for this kind of stuff?

[herrhauptmann]

Would it be worth it to have a handbook for this kind of stuff?

Handbook of what? Price breakdowns? Or pricing rules in general?
I'd say No to both, but others might disagree.

[Adept_Scholar]

Ring of Protection +3 offers a +3 deflection bonus. As you already know, an item offering a deflection bonus is priced as: [bonus]^2 x 2000 GP. So, 3^2 = 9, and 9 x 2000 = 18000 GP.

So, is 18,000gp actually the item's market price rather than its creation price (which would then be 9,000gp)? :smallconfused:


It's one of those tricky items that don't actually use the spell(s) listed in their creation requirements, which leads us to assume the price was altered to match whatever WotC's staff determined to be appropriate for its given abilities.


It costs 8600 now, because some writer 20 years ago thought it should cost 8600.

For Ring of the Ram, if the spells used were taken into consideration, would the following formula appear correct (using the formula for "Use-activated or continuous" on Table 7-33 and then dividing by 2 for 50 charges):
Bull's Strength: spell level 2 x caster level 9 x 2,000gp=36,000gp/2=9,000gp
Telekinesis: spell level 5 x caster level 9 x 2,000gp=90,000gp/2=45,000gp
Total creation cost: 54,000gp (108,000gp market price)?
Or, if more accurate in relation to what it can do, 54,000gp market price (27,000gp creation cost)?

[RFLS]

Handbook of what? Price breakdowns? Or pricing rules in general?
I'd say No to both, but others might disagree.

A thorough explanation of item pricing, types of items, and anomalies in the pricing rules, followed by recommended items for various classes.

[Alienist]

So, is 18,000gp actually the item's market price rather than its creation price (which would then be 9,000gp)? :smallconfused:

Yes. :smallbiggrin:

[RFLS]

So...thoughts on a guide for this?

[herrhauptmann]

So...thoughts on a guide for this?

Go for it. There's actually a guide for writing guides....
I'd say do the prelim work at home, including organization. Then start a thread, put placeholders in say the first 10 posts, then go back and start putting stuff in them.
And as people start chiming in on it, listen to them. The first theurge handbook for instance, the author did NOT listen, and spent more time fighting with people than actually writing the guide.

[RFLS]

Go for it. There's actually a guide for writing guides....
I'd say do the prelim work at home, including organization. Then start a thread, put placeholders in say the first 10 posts, then go back and start putting stuff in them.
And as people start chiming in on it, listen to them. The first theurge handbook for instance, the author did NOT listen, and spent more time fighting with people than actually writing the guide.

Hrm...do you have a link to that guide? My google-fu is failing me, and I'm curious to see it

[Coidzor]

You can, however, get the cost to create the item to be below 50% of the market price. (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=ecr8055t2op9m87puuvcgauri5&topic=1000.0) A lot lower, in fact, with a willingness to kick things up past 11.

Other items, such as golems, have a cost to create that is separate from the magic item creation itself, mostly being things like requiring the body to be 5K gp or something along those lines.

[Adept_Scholar]

Thanks for the replies. I have taken a couple of hours or so and taken a look at each type of magical item creation and will detail my understandings of each along with questions below. (In other words: cranking up the complexity in round #2. :smalltongue:)

Potion: Air Walk (Cleric or Druid @ 4th)=
spell level (4) x caster level (4) x 50gp=800gp market price (C.T.G. 400gp & 32 XP)

Scroll: Acid Fog (Wizard or Sorcerer @ 6th)=
spell level (6) x caster level (6) x 25gp=900gp market price (C.T.G. 450gp + 36 XP)

Scroll (Medium: Wizard or Sorcerer @ 6th)=Above plus:
Acid Splash=spell level (0 to 1) x caster level (6) x 25gp=150gp/2=75gp market price (C.T.C. 37.5gp)
Alter Self=spell level (2) x caster level (6) x 25gp=300gp market price (C.T.C. 150gp)
Animal Growth*=spell level (5) x caster level (6) x 25gp=750gp market price (C.T.C. 375gp)=Total: 2,025gp market price (C.T.C. 1,012.5gp + 81 XP)

*This spell alters an animal's abilities (strength, constitution, & dexterity) in addition to adding +4 to its saving throws, so would the base price formulas next to "Effect" at the top of Table 7-33 apply here or are they only used when the magical item in question solely applies one or more of them? Additionally, I notice there is a formula if a magical item offers spell resistance, but not one for damage reduction. Would the same formula (10,000gp per point over SR 12;13 minimum) be appropriate (SR replaced by DR)?

Wand: Align Weapon (Cleric @ 5th)=spell level (2) x caster level (5) x 750gp=7,500gp market price (C.T.C. 3,750gp + 300 XP)

Rod (unlimited use): Analyze Dweomer (Bard @ 9th)=spell level (6) x caster level (9) x 2,000gp=108,000gp+focus item of 1,500gp=109,500gp market price (C.T.C. 54,000gp + 4,320 XP)

(How was the price for Boots of Teleportation on pg. 250 derived)?

Ring (50 charges/command word): Aid (Cleric @ 12)=spell level (2) x caster level (12) x 1,800gp=43,200gp market price (C.T.C. 21,600gp + 1,728 XP)

Ring (continuous): Aid (Cleric @ 12)=spell level (2) x caster level (12) x 2,000gp=48,000gpx2(1 min/level)=96,000gp market price (C.T.C. 48,000 + 3,840 XP)

(I may be missing something obvious, but I am confused by the 2nd key below Table 7-33...Why does an item which has a 24-hour duration have its market value cut in half?? :smallconfused:)

(How was the price for the Charming staff on pg. 244 derived)?

Wonderous Item (command word): Amulet of Alarm (Sorcerer @ 3)=spell level (1) x caster level (3) x 1,800gp=5,400gp market price (C.T.C. 2,700gp + 216 XP)

(It is my hope that after I have seen 2-3 examples of each variety, I will be able to handle such creation endeavors in the future. :smallwink:)

[Zeb]

Scroll: Acid Fog (Wizard or Sorcerer @ 6th)=
spell level (6) x caster level (6) x 25gp=900gp market price (C.T.G. 450gp + 36 XP)

Scroll (Medium: Wizard or Sorcerer @ 6th)=Above plus:
Acid Splash=spell level (0 to 1) x caster level (6) x 25gp=150gp/2=75gp market price (C.T.C. 37.5gp)
Alter Self=spell level (2) x caster level (6) x 25gp=300gp market price (C.T.C. 150gp)
Animal Growth*=spell level (5) x caster level (6) x 25gp=750gp market price (C.T.C. 375gp)=Total: 2,025gp market price (C.T.C. 1,012.5gp + 81 XP)

*This spell alters an animal's abilities (strength, constitution, & dexterity) in addition to adding +4 to its saving throws, so would the base price formulas next to "Effect" at the top of Table 7-33 apply here or are they only used when the magical item in question solely applies one or more of them? Additionally, I notice there is a formula if a magical item offers spell resistance, but not one for damage reduction. Would the same formula (10,000gp per point over SR 12;13 minimum) be appropriate (SR replaced by DR)?

Scrolls all follow a simple formula 12.5 x level of the spell for your class x your caster level(at least minimum for casting the spell)
So acid splash is 12.5 x level 0 spell (counts as .5) x caster level(min 1) = 6 gold 2 silver and 5 copper or 6.25gp and 1 exp to make and market price of 12.5gp if you make it at your caster level the price is 6 times higher and for that spell there isn't a benefit to an increased CL

Alter self 12.5x2x6= 150 gp to create at your level, minimum level is 75gp and 6 exp as a wizard, as a sorc its 100gp and 8 exp because the minimum level a sorc can cast 2nd level spells is 3.

Animal growth as a wizard you wont actually have access to this spell until level 9. but using the Scribe scroll guidelines 12.5x5(spell level)X9(min lvl for a wizard)= 562.5gp and 45exp.

While the DMG is handy I would recommend looking at all the rules in one place Link (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm) to help with the specifics.

*Edit: wands, scrolls and potions have simple equations while other items can require a little more work.

Boots of Teleportation Command word spell effect is Spell level x caster level x 1800. if an item has uses per day then divide its cost by(5 divided by charges per day) so at 3 charges or times per day that is 1.66
5(spell lvl of teleport)x9(lowest caster level)x1800/1.66= about 49,000gp

[Coidzor]

You need a Caster Levell of 1 for 1st level spells and 0th level spells, a CL of 3 for 2nd level spells, CL 5 for 3rd level spells, CL 7 for 4th level spells, CL 9 for 5th level spells, CL 11 for 6th level spells, CL 13 for 7th level spells, CL 15 for 8th level spells, and CL 17 for 9th level spells.

You can create an item at a CL lower than your actual CL, but cannot go beneath the minimum CL for the spell.


Potion: Air Walk (Cleric or Druid @ 4th)=
spell level (4) x caster level (4) x 50gp=800gp market price (C.T.G. 400gp & 32 XP)

Doesn't work, because you can only create up to 3rd level spells in potions.

So, bearing that in mind, generic 3rd level spell, let's say, cure serious wounds. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/cureSeriousWounds.htm) Caster level 5.

So, 25 * 3 * 5 = 15 * 25 = 375 = base cost to make, which is 1/2 of the base/market price of 750 given on the table in the following link.


The creator of a potion needs a level working surface and at least a few containers in which to mix liquids, as well as a source of heat to boil the brew. In addition, he needs ingredients. The costs for materials and ingredients are subsumed in the cost for brewing the potion—25 gp × the level of the spell × the level of the caster. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm#creatingPotions)


Scroll: Acid Fog (Wizard or Sorcerer @ 6th)=
spell level (6) x caster level (6) x 25gp=900gp market price (C.T.G. 450gp + 36 XP)

6th level spell * CL 11 * 25 gp = 1650 gp base/market price. (standard cost to create 826 gp +66 XP) (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm#creatingScrolls)

[herrhauptmann]

Coidzor is right on all but one point. The listed caster levels needed to cast spells of a given spell level only applies to classes like Clerics, Druids, and Wizards. Adepts, Bards, Paladins, Rangers, Sorcerers, and many other spellcasting classes don't follow the listed progression.



Yeah, the exceptions (which outnumber those who follow the rule) have to maintain the minimum level to cast the spell from their own list.
ex:
Blink. Bard 3 and Wizard 3.
But bard gets it at 7th level: so 3xCL7, while a wizard pays 3xCL5, and sorcerer pays 3xCL6.

Scrying. Bard 3, Wizard 4, Cleric 5.
Bard: 3xCL7
Wizard: 4xCL7
Sorcerer 4xCL8
Cleric: 5xCL9.

Ranger and paladin both have that thing where their CL is half their class level.
Bulls Strength. Paladin 2, Wizard 2, Cleric 2
Wizard 2xCL3
Sorcerer 2xCL4
Cleric 2xCL3
Paladin 2xCL4 (get 2nd level spells at 8th level)


Hrm...do you have a link to that guide? My google-fu is failing me, and I'm curious to see it

Used to have it bookmarked. I think the best bet for finding the guide to making guides is to search through the handbook "The urge to theurge," which will come up if you google it.

[RFLS]

Used to have it bookmarked. I think the best bet for finding the guide to making guides is to search through the handbook "The urge to theurge," which will come up if you google it.

Do you by any chance remember if it was Arcanist's or Little Brother's?

[TuggyNE]

Do you by any chance remember if it was Arcanist's or Little Brother's?

It was the latter's. (The former's was started afterward to pick up the pieces.)

[Adept_Scholar]

Doesn't work, because you can only create up to 3rd level spells in potions.

(I believe I got this confused with wands being up to 4th).


Coidzor is right on all but one point. The listed caster levels needed to cast spells of a given spell level only applies to classes like Clerics, Druids, and Wizards. Adepts, Bards, Paladins, Rangers, Sorcerers, and many other spellcasting classes don't follow the listed progression.

(While pulling spells from the P.H., I had forgotten that the level of the spell is not the caster level...).:smallamused:

Starting round 3 with questions concerning abilities under "Effects" in Table 7-33, I notice that providing an enhancement bonus to AC is cheaper than adding a deflection bonus or improving natural armor (both bonus squared x 2,000). Is this because enhancement bonuses to an item can only go up to +5 so deflection & natural armor bonuses to AC can stack on top of that? (Also assuming that it is generally impossible to apply a natural armor bonus to a creature who does not already have a natural armor AC modifier)?

Under "AC bonus (other)", it lists luck, insight, sacred, and profane...Do these do anything specific other than add to AC? Do they stack either with each other?

Do all modifiers to AC (enhancement, deflection, natural, & "other") each cap at +5 (and assuming that the +5 from "other" is total for the category and you can't have +5 luck, +5 insight, +5 sacred, & +5 profane on the same item)? Does a +5 cap apply to the other areas listed: save resistance & competence bonus, or are these more judgment calls? Under Table 7-2: Armor and Shields, it states a maximum of +5 enhancement bonus in addition to a maximum of +5 in abilities. Would the +5 from abilities be replaced with AC bonuses from above, for example, a +5 suit of full-plate that also bestows a +5 luck or deflection AC bonus (for a total and maximum AC bonus of +10)?


As for Damage Reduction, keep in mind that its usefulness depends on what's needed to ignore it. DR 5/Slashing is less useful than DR 5/Magic, since slashing is more common than magic, and no other DR type can best DR 5/- in terms of defense. This variability is probably why it wasn't given a clear-cut price in the Dungeon Master's Guide. However, Mantle of Faith gives 5/Evil, which could easily be refluffed as 5/[Alignment]. Since Damage Reduction is less useful at higher levels, we can assume that one point of DR/[Alignment] costs 15200 GP, as opposed to the "[bonus]^2 x 1000 GP" formula for Armor Class. It's not neat, or wide in scope, but it's a starting point.

Would it not be seen as more useful in that the attacks would be more common? Similarly, would its usefulness at higher levels not be dependent upon the DR applied to the magical item, assuming its cap would be a judgment call upon creation? :smallconfused:


A Wand of Align Weapon costs, at minimum, 4500 GP.

Does the caster not have to be at a minimum level of 5 in order to use the feat "Craft Wand"? :smallconfused:


Though it costs 49000 GP, the proper formula for Boots of Teleportation would be 5 (spell level) x 9 (caster level) x 2000 (use-activated) / (5/3) (3 charges/day) = 54000 GP. So, the lower price is probably due to arbitrary choice. Helm of Teleportation, by comparison, costs 73500 GP. 49000 x 1.5, thanks to it using a body slot without an affinity for movement, comes out to 73500 GP. So, we see that the two prices are balanced and consistent, in relation to one another.

Why would Boots of Teleportation use the "Use-activated or continuous" formula while the Helm of Teleportation uses the "Command word" formula when they are both activated "as if he had cast the spell (teleport)" (verbal spell)? :smallconfused:


Compare the utility between day(s) long spells to those with round(s) long spells. A general rule of thumb is that the power of the spell is inversely proportional to its duration. So, longer-lasting spells are usually weaker, and should be cheaper to put into magic items

I see how some spells would be less or more effective based upon duration; yet what if I wanted to create a wonderous item in the shape of a sphere which mimicked the effects of the Acid Fog spell upon command (unlimited use/duration with command word to activate and deactivate)? Such an item obviously would be more useful than the same item which had unlimited uses, but a duration of 1 round/level (as the Acid Fog spell). As a side note (and challenge), what would the formula be to determine such a magical item which was unlimited in addition to activating via command word? :smallconfused:

As for staffs...


The cost for the materials is subsumed in the cost for creating the staff—375 gp × the level of the highest-level spell × the level of the caster, plus 75% of the value of the next most costly ability (281.25 gp × the level of the spell × the level of the caster), plus one-half of the value of any other abilities (187.5 gp × the level of the spell × the level of the caster).

Why is the spell Charm Person not considered the staff's next most costly ability (@ +75%)? :smallconfused:

[Adept_Scholar]

Since Damage Reduction is less useful at higher levels, we can assume that one point of DR/[Alignment] costs 15200 GP, as opposed to the "^2 x 1000 GP" formula for Armor Class. It's not neat, or wide in scope, but it's a starting point.

How did you arrive at 15,200gp? :smallconfused:

Continuing on, let's take a look at the wonderous item "Belt of Healing", which has 50 charges, utilizes the "Cure Light Wounds" spell, is triggered via command word, and is crafted by a 5th-level Cleric. Which of the following two formulas would be most appropriate:

"50 charges, spell trigger": spell level (1) x caster level (5) x 750gp=3,750gp
or
"Command word"+"Charged(50 charges)": spell level (1) x caster level (5) x 1,800gp=9,000gp+1/2 unlimited base price (using "Use-activated or continuous" formula: spell level (1) x caster level (5) x 2,000gp=10,000/2=5,000gp)=Total of 14,000gp (9,000gp+5,000gp).

Upon reading up on page 213 in the D.M. Guide, the differences between the above two starting formulas are: "50 charges, spell trigger" requires a command word which is known upon being held by a caster class, yet the caster must still discover which spells are within the item in order to activate it (skill check to uncover) compared to "Command Word" which simply requires a hidden word hidden to all classes (skill check to uncover). Would that alone count for the difference of 10,250gp between the above (3,750 and 14,000)? :smallconfused:

Upon review of the same item not charged, with varying charges per day using the "Command Word" forumla, charges equal to or greater than 5 per day are less useful than the actual item as shown below:
With 1 charge per day: spell level (1) x caster level (5) x 1,800gp=9,000gp/(5/1)=1,800gp
With 2 charges per day: 9,000/(5/2)=3,600gp
With 3 charges per day: 9,000/(5/3)=5,421gp
With 4 charges per day: 9,000/(5/4)=7,200gp
With 5 charges per day: 9,000/(5/5)=9,000gp

[B]Staffs


You'd think it costs 33000 GP, but remember that such a Staff would have 100 charges, not 50. So, 33000 / 2 = 16500 GP, which is exactly the market price of the Staff of Charming.

Where does it state that a staff receives an additional 50 charges per spell added? (I could only locate within the manual it stating a staff has 50 charges upon creation...) :smallconfused: Additionally, I had thought that a staff's spell charges would pull collectively from its pool of 50 charges (meaning a player would have to think more about how his or her spell selection would impact this number).

Taking a look at a conjuration staff created by a 12th-level cleric containing the following spells:
Cure Serious Wounds: 375gp x spell level (3) x caster level (12)=13,500gp+
Cure Moderate Wounds: 281.25gp x spell level (2) x caster level (12)=6,750gp+
Cure Light Wounds: 187.5gp x spell level (1) x caster level (12)=2,250gp+
Cure Minor Wounds: 187.5gp x spell level (0) x caster level (12)=2,250/2=1,125gp
Total creation cost=24,750gp (market price 49,500gp) & 990 XP

Going back to spell charges, would the above spells also have a randomly determined number of individual charges? Upon looking at the staffs in the manual and comparing a spell's level with its number of charges, I noticed, for example, that one 3rd-level cleric spell in a staff had 1 charge while a 3rd-level cleric spell in another staff had 3 charges...:smallconfused:

Resistance & Immunity
Table 7-33 states that a magical item which solely has a resistance bonus uses the formula: bonus squared x 1,000gp. The example item shown is Cloak of Resistance +5 which increases resistance to all saves from +1 to +5 each. What about other resistances, such as poison? Would a Cloak of Poison Resistance +5 use the same formula noted above thus coming to the same price as the example (25,000gp)? Two other things come to note: 1) a magical cloak which offered +5 to reflex saves (excluding the additional +5 to fortitude and will saves as the above cloak) would be valued the same as said cloak and 2) concerning poison, it could get more complex when stating such an item only offers the resistance to a specific poison/s. (I suppose in both instances it would come down to judgment calls on getting a suitable price). Yet, what would be a good formula to determine such an item that simply offers immunity (e.g. poison immunity, acid immunity, etc.)? The magical item "Periapt of Proof Against Poison" offers poison immunity at a market price of 27,000gp (which is only 2,000gp higher than the above +5), but I am uncertain of how this price was derived...:smallconfused:

Damage Resistance & Regeneration
Upon wondering how regeneration compares with damage reduction, I came up with the below example:

A creature with regeneration 5 has 50 hit points and is hit for 10 damage. It now has 50 hit points & 10 points of non-lethal damage. Assuming said creature suffers only this attack during the round, it recovers 5 of the non-lethal damage during the round putting it roughly 90% towards unconsciousness (46 more non-lethal damage to be over current hit points of 50).

A creature with damage reduction 5/- has 50 hit points and is hit for 10 damage. It now has 45 hit points and assuming as the above (the creature is hit only this one time during the round), come the end of said round, is roughly 90% towards unconsciousness (45 more points of damage to fall). (Yet once fallen, a creature with regeneration has the advantage as it recovers at a faster rate and takes a final attack, "coup de grace", to kill).

So how would one go about determining a formula/price for a magical item which provided regeneration? Take for example, a Belt of Regeneration. Would one simply input the Regeneration spell into the formula for "Use-activated or continuous": spell level (7) x caster level (13) x 2,000gp=182,000gp & 7,280 XP? (In comparison, if the Belt of Healing noted previously were to be continuous (continually healing 1d8+5): spell level (1) x caster level (5) x 2,000gp=10,000gp & 400 XP).

[Jeraa]

Continuing on, let's take a look at the wonderous item "Belt of Healing", which has 50 charges, utilizes the "Cure Light Wounds" spell, is triggered via command word, and is crafted by a 5th-level Cleric. Which of the following two formulas would be most appropriate:

"50 charges, spell trigger": spell level (1) x caster level (5) x 750gp=3,750gp
or
"Command word"+"Charged(50 charges)": spell level (1) x caster level (5) x 1,800gp=9,000gp+1/2 unlimited base price (using "Use-activated or continuous" formula: spell level (1) x caster level (5) x 2,000gp=10,000/2=5,000gp)=Total of 14,000gp (9,000gp+5,000gp).

Upon reading up on page 213 in the D.M. Guide, the differences between the above two starting formulas are: "50 charges, spell trigger" requires a command word which is known upon being held by a caster class, yet the caster must still discover which spells are within the item in order to activate it (skill check to uncover) compared to "Command Word" which simply requires a hidden word hidden to all classes (skill check to uncover). Would that alone count for the difference of 10,250gp between the above (3,750 and 14,000)?

Spell trigger items can only be used by casters who have that spell on their spell list. Wands are spell trigger items.

Regular command word items can be used by anyone who knows the command word, even if they aren't a spellcaster. Thats why Spell Trigger items cost less then normal command-word items - not everyone can use them.


Where does it state that a staff receives an additional 50 charges per spell added? (I could only locate within the manual it stating a staff has 50 charges upon creation...) Additionally, I had thought that a staff's spell charges would pull collectively from its pool of 50 charges (meaning a player would have to think more about how his or her spell selection would impact this number).

Going back to spell charges, would the above spells also have a randomly determined number of individual charges? Upon looking at the staffs in the manual and comparing a spell's level with its number of charges, I noticed, for example, that one 3rd-level cleric spell in a staff had 1 charge while a 3rd-level cleric spell in another staff had 3 charges...

Staves only ever have 50 charges. All of the spells in a staff draw their power from those same 50 charges.

When you make a staff, you can decide to put a spell in that uses more then the normal 1 charge. Such spells that require more charges cost less. How many charges a particular spell in a staff use is determined by the staffs creator.

And be careful with staff pricing from the books. Many are known to be incorrect - some are fine, others are half the price they should be. Its an issue that has been known for years, and never really corrected.


Resistance & Immunity
Table 7-33 states that a magical item which solely has a resistance bonus uses the formula: bonus squared x 1,000gp. The example item shown is Cloak of Resistance +5 which increases resistance to all saves from +1 to +5 each. What about other resistances, such as poison? Would a Cloak of Poison Resistance +5 use the same formula noted above thus coming to the same price as the example (25,000gp)? Two other things come to note: 1) a magical cloak which offered +5 to reflex saves (excluding the additional +5 to fortitude and will saves as the above cloak) would be valued the same as said cloak and 2) concerning poison, it could get more complex when stating such an item only offers the resistance to a specific poison/s. (I suppose in both instances it would come down to judgment calls on getting a suitable price). Yet, what would be a good formula to determine such an item that simply offers immunity (e.g. poison immunity, acid immunity, etc.)? The magical item "Periapt of Proof Against Poison" offers poison immunity at a market price of 27,000gp (which is only 2,000gp higher than the above +5), but I am uncertain of how this price was derived...


That formula is only for bonuses to saving throws (Fortitude, Reflex, and Will). Nothing else, as far as I am aware.

As for price for an immunity item, not all magic items follow a formula. Many items were simply given a cost that sounded right to the authors. Other items were priced by the formulas, but then had their price adjusted (some up, some down).


So how would one go about determining a formula/price for a magical item which provided regeneration? Take for example, a Belt of Regeneration. Would one simply input the Regeneration spell into the formula for "Use-activated or continuous": spell level (7) x caster level (13) x 2,000gp=182,000gp & 7,280 XP? (In comparison, if the Belt of Healing noted previously were to be continuous (continually healing 1d8+5): spell level (1) x caster level (5) x 2,000gp=10,000gp & 400 XP).

The Regenerate spell doesn't actually give a creature regeneration. The regenerate spell is basically just a healing spell - it restores 4d8 points of damage, +1 additional point per caster level.

Always compare a new item to existing items that grant a similar ability. A Belt of Regeneration should first be compared to a Ring of Regeneration to determine price. That heals 1 damage per level every hour (an hour is 600 rounds), and costs 90,000gp. So an item that grants healing every round, even a single point (which would be 600 points of healing per hour), should cost far, far more then that.

[Adept_Scholar]

When you make a staff, you can decide to put a spell in that uses more then the normal 1 charge. Such spells that require more charges cost less. How many charges a particular spell in a staff use is determined by the staffs creator.

According to the D.M. Guide, a staff's creator can choose to pay half the normal cost to instill a spell within a staff whereupon it costs 2 charges to use rather than one; however, a few of the listed staffs have spells costing 3 or 4 charges. I am assuming this just means the spells in question were instilled at 1/3 and 1/4 their normal costs? If so, applying 1-4 charges to the spells of the example staff from my previous post would look like this (if I am not mistaken):

Cure Serious Wounds @ 1 charge=13,300gp+
Cure Moderate Wounds @ 2 charges=3,375gp (1/2 6,750gp)+
Cure Light Wounds @ 3 charges=750gp (1/3 2,250)+
Cure Minor Wounds @ 4 charges=281gp (1/4 1,125gp)=C.T.C. 17,706gp (market price 35,412gp) & XP cost 708


That formula is only for bonuses to saving throws (Fortitude, Reflex, and Will). Nothing else, as far as I am aware.

As for price for an immunity item, not all magic items follow a formula.

Would doubling a greater resistance ability cost, e.g. Fire Resistance, Greater from +66,000gp to +132,000gp (similar to a magical item which is charged, 50 is half the cost of the same item with unlimited uses) seem fair for an item offering an elemental (fire, cold, acid, etc.) immunity? In the same manner, a Cloak of Fire Resistance +5 could be half the cost of the Fire Resistance ability (+18,000 to +9,000). This method could also apply to regeneration items: Ring of Regeneration (heals 1 hit point/level every hour) @ 90,000gp, Belt of Regeneration (heals 2 hit points/level every hour) @ 180,000gp, Vest of Regeneration (heals 3 hit points/level every hour) @ 270,000gp, etc.