Best way a Lich PC can introduce himself to the party

[Nornalhorst]

I'm playing as a lich in a campaign I was wondering what would be the best way for me to introduce my character to the adventuring party. The party has a overzealous Lawful Good paladin with low int, a sorceror, emotionless construct, chaotic evil dragon, and a lawful neutral samurai. And their is a general extremely high hate of undead as well among both the PCs and NPCs.

[Arcanist]

Simple: As a Wizard/Cleric/Sorcerer

A Smart Lich doesn't tell anyone he is a Lich unless it gets to the point where it is plainly obvious and even then you still don't tell them. My personal favorite being "I'm a Corpse/Bone creature with some Wizard/Cleric/Sorcerer levels" :smallamused:

Tell the players, but don't tell the characters.

[Nornalhorst]

Simple: As a Wizard/Cleric/Sorcerer

A Smart Lich doesn't tell anyone he is a Lich unless it gets to the point where it is plainly obvious and even then you still don't tell them. My personal favorite being "I'm a Corpse/Bone creature with some Wizard/Cleric/Sorcerer levels" :smallamused:

Tell the players, but don't tell the characters.

Unfortunately the chaotic evil dragon has detect undead, and the sorcerer has knowledges in arcane and religion....

[Waker]

Resort to disguise checks, illusions and certain spells/items that protect against divinations, like Detect Evil. Try and avoid letting the party know he is undead as that may bias them towards the npc.

[Emperor Tippy]

Unfortunately the chaotic evil dragon has detect undead, and the sorcerer has knowledges in arcane and religion....

What level of spells do you have access to?

Just throw up a Mind Blank and PAO yourself twice into a human or whatever.

Mind Blank + Alter Self or even Disguise Self will honestly get you around most of the problems.

There is also Mind Blank + Urgent of Timelessness on your body once you became a Lich (so you don't degrade and thus look just as you did in life).

If you stop looking like yourself (your DM might rule that regaining HP doesn't repair what your body looks like) then just PAO yourself back to your original state.

[Nornalhorst]

What level of spells do you have access to?

Just throw up a Mind Blank and PAO yourself twice into a human or whatever.

Mind Blank + Alter Self or even Disguise Self will honestly get you around most of the problems.

There is also Mind Blank + Urgent of Timelessness on your body once you became a Lich (so you don't degrade and thus look just as you did in life).

If you stop looking like yourself (your DM might rule that regaining HP doesn't repair what your body looks like) then just PAO yourself back to your original state.

Unfortunately I'm a level one cleric (backstory explains everything) and the rest of the party is 4, 5, with 2 other level ones. DM states all pcs start level one with a maximum ecl of 5, so I chose to be a lich.

[Waker]

Did your DM handwaive the requirement for a lich to be a level 11 spellcaster? As a cleric, it might help to take the Trickery domain. Until you get access to the spells and equipment, you'll need to rely on mundane disguises and hope no one resorts to magic.

[Alaris]

GLCK-Level 1!?!?!?

Well... presuming you're not getting WBL beyond a 1st level character... there's really no way to hide being a Lich. So umm... I guess you'll have to be blatant about it. Since the party already has a CE character, the Paladin should have no problem with a Lich.

Also... ick. Making people roll at Level 1 when there are Level 4 and 5 characters in the party? That's painful.

Does your Level Adjustment (from Lich) still hinder you? Because if so... it's gonna be a while to level up.

[zimmerwald1915]

How is the Chaotic Evil dragon hiding his alignment? You might want to think about copying his tricks, since they seem to work.

[Arcanist]

Unfortunately the chaotic evil dragon has detect undead, and the sorcerer has knowledges in arcane and religion....

Detect Undead only tells him that you are undead, not what type you are. As for using Knowledge (Religion) that is highly up for discussion as to whether he can make a Knowledge (Religion) check to make Divination magic largely irreverent.

It's like using Knowledge (Religion) to know the True name of the Red Knight, or more importantly what color her pantsu are, on any given day.

More importantly what is your groups problem with Undead? I mean damn, I use undead any chance I get (they're my favorite creature type to use), but my PC's don't HATE Undead :smallconfused:

[Amnestic]

Best way a Lich PC can introduce himself to the party

"Good morning, my name is CHARNAME."

Sometimes the classics really are the best. :smallwink:

[Bonzai]

Lol, is it weird that the title of this post immediately brought to mind the museum scene from Batman, where the Joker introduces himself to Vicki Vale?


Main point is to be as eccentric and charming as possible, and they may not get past the oddity of it all to worry about the whole evil undead thing. Get a couple minions with boom boxes and your set!

[Kornaki]

"Good morning, my name is CHARNAME."

Sometimes the classics really are the best. :smallwink:

I kind of like this idea. Make an OOC charisma check.... the DM says "A robed man walks up to you. His face is..."

"HI! My name's CHARNAME! How's it going?!?!"

"I was saying, his face is a bare s..."

"I like puppies and sunshine and peppermint milkshakes!"

"A bare sku..."

"Covered in bear skin! I have a bear skin hood. Isn't it cool? Anywho, how 'bout that adventure?"

[Telonius]

If they ask:

"I'm only half undead, on my mother's side. Look, it's a long story, and I'm sure you really don't want the full details."

[FreakyCheeseMan]

Just don't mention it, out of character or in.

If the DM tries to say anything, tackle him.

[Scowling Dragon]

Wearing a string bikini and a thong to the music "Im just a sweet transvestite".

Before the rest of party put their jaws back in their place you have enough time to talk to all of them.

[drax75]

Honestly the Paladin should have fallen already if thats the part makeup....

It says in the paladin class description

"Code of Conduct: A paladin must be of lawful good alignment
and loses all class abilities if she ever willingly commits an evil act.
Additionally, a paladin’s code requires that she respect legitimate
authority, act with honor (not lying, not cheating, not using poison,
and so forth), help those in need (provided they do not use the help
for evil or chaotic ends), and punish those who harm or threaten
innocents.
Associates: While she may adventure with characters of any
good or neutral alignment, a paladin will never knowingly associate
with evil characters, nor will she continue an association with
someone who consistently offends her moral code. A paladin may
accept only henchmen, followers, or cohorts who are lawful good."

I am intelligence has nothing to do with it, if they detect evil the party the party will show as evil and he will either kill them or fall.... you should have the pally play a crusader.

[Squirrel_Dude]

"Good morning, my name is CHARNAME."

Sometimes the classics really are the best. :smallwink:I second this. A certain arrogance comes with being a Lich so let him play off that by just introducing himself to the party in some semi-comical way. I recommend eating a sandwich, with the chewed food dropping through the bottom of his mouth and onto the floor.

The have him "accidentally" paralyze some mook when they shake hands.

[Nornalhorst]

I actually already had the game before I wrote this to see if there was anything I could have done differently.

As for how it went, well very very poorly to say the least. Before I walk in the tavern I disguise myself as a regular commoner. The moment I walk in the tavern the chaotic evil dragon sees me randomly detects undead and before I can really introduce myself he announces to everyone an undead is in the tavern, all the other PCs start freaking out and saying the mummies from yesterday must have tracked them back to town, and the NPCs start freaking out and screaming then yelling for the guards. I try to calm things down with bluff and roll very low. So then I try to hide and get out ASAP, but the entire city mobilizes and sends all available military forces to my location with every soldier armed with flamethrowers, despite hiding me and the rest of the party are set ablaze, the dragon then makes things worst by taunting the guards to get more heavy duty equipment out and we all end up in prison.

The sorcerer rolls high for knowledge religion and finds out I'm a Lich and tells the rest of the party, and the whole party already in a state of hysteria then tries to kill me (funnily enough they are all bound so unable to do anything but squirm and scream) or break out of prison to get away, while the dragon completely bound in steel laughs. Since they already know I'm a lich I comely greet them and introduce myself as a Lich, but have no intentions to harm them. Which results in the paladin breaking his chains and attempting to punch me before being burned up and restrained by the guards:smallbiggrin:

[Toliudar]

That's...odd. It absolutely sounds like a DM and a bunch of players who really didn't want you to play a lich (I'm still not clear how a lich at first level is possible), and so decided to throw verisimilitude out the window in order to make it not happen.

Did you actually talk with the DM and other players about introducing this character? It sounds like no one was happy with this. Especially with a group willing to derail the story this much, that kind of out of character talk seems very, very important. Assuming that your body was burned up somewhere, I'm assuming that a new lich body is reforming somewhere. If you're tempted to try to reintroduce the character, that kind of OOC 'we all agree to make this work' conversation is going to be essential.

[Nornalhorst]

That's...odd. It absolutely sounds like a DM and a bunch of players who really didn't want you to play a lich (I'm still not clear how a lich at first level is possible), and so decided to throw verisimilitude out the window in order to make it not happen.

Did you actually talk with the DM and other players about introducing this character? It sounds like no one was happy with this. Especially with a group willing to derail the story this much, that kind of out of character talk seems very, very important. Assuming that your body was burned up somewhere, I'm assuming that a new lich body is reforming somewhere. If you're tempted to try to reintroduce the character, that kind of OOC 'we all agree to make this work' conversation is going to be essential.

DM said it was okay (explained with detailed backstory, as for why I'm so low level), and I talked to the other players beforehand at the time everyone seemed okay, but it went to hell when the actual game started.

Also I never did die, the fire burned me but it didn't kill me. Also the paladin was the one who kept being set on fire for trying to break out and attack me.

[Alaris]

I... Uhh... wha?

Okay, so the rest of the players at your game are Metagamers... and don't know how to keep OOC knowledge OUT OF CHARACTER.

If I were the DM, I'd immediately have slapped the "CE Dragon" with level loss for using OOC Knowledge (Detecting Undead on you the moment you came in, even though you look like a normal commoner).

I... just don't get it. So the people freak out when there's an Undead, even though... there were already Undead.... I....

I couldn't play in this game. I'm sorry... too much pain... my brain hurts.

[Amidus Drexel]

Although it's probably a moot point now, I think you should have worked with the DM to make one of their old loot drops your phylactery, and then regenerated nearby it while they were sleeping. :smallamused:

[Alaris]

Although it's probably a moot point now, I think you should have worked with the DM to make one of their old loot drops your phylactery, and then regenerated nearby it while they were sleeping. :smallamused:

Well, it seems they're all alive, and in jail. Though the rest of the PCs want to kill him still.

Really... this sounds so stupid. I can't make sense of it.

[Nornalhorst]

I... Uhh... wha?

Okay, so the rest of the players at your game are Metagamers... and don't know how to keep OOC knowledge OUT OF CHARACTER.

If I were the DM, I'd immediately have slapped the "CE Dragon" with level loss for using OOC Knowledge (Detecting Undead on you the moment you came in, even though you look like a normal commoner).

I... just don't get it. So the people freak out when there's an Undead, even though... there were already Undead.... I....

I couldn't play in this game. I'm sorry... too much pain... my brain hurts.

Yeah I know what you mean, I didn't expect that reaction.

Now there were no other undead in the city, the undead the PCs were talking about were some mummies they killed and looted awhile back. So after the dragon detects undead, the paladin yells out the mummies must have came back for their gold.

Strangely everyone seemed okay with an evil dragon running around, but undead....oh no!!!!

[Alaris]

Yeah I know what you mean, I didn't expect that reaction.

Now there were no other undead in the city, the undead the PCs were talking about were some mummies they killed and looted awhile back. So after the dragon detects undead, the paladin yells out the mummies must have came back for their gold.

Strangely everyone seemed okay with an evil dragon running around, but undead....oh no!!!!

Well, for all I know, Evil Dragons are not taboo, while Undead are. I mean, was the Evil Dragon in disguise? What possible reason could he have to "Detect Undead" on a random Commoner?

I... please... make some sense of this. I can't...

[Nornalhorst]

Well, for all I know, Evil Dragons are not taboo, while Undead are. I mean, was the Evil Dragon in disguise? What possible reason could he have to "Detect Undead" on a random Commoner?

I... please... make some sense of this. I can't...

No disguise running free, as for detect undead on random commoner, metagaming is the only explanation. As for the city magic is forbidden, but that's really all I know.

Funnily enough our Lawful Good Paladin is okay with people desecrating the corpses of his enemies by eating them (happened before arriving in the tavern in a previous session).

[drax75]

No disguise running free, as for detect undead on random commoner, metagaming is the only explanation. As for the city magic is forbidden, but that's really all I know.

Funnily enough our Lawful Good Paladin is okay with people desecrating the corpses of his enemies by eating them (happened before arriving in the tavern in a previous session).

NO even more odd is your Lawful Good Paladin is traveling with a EVIL DRAGON!

He should have fallen by now....

Detect Evil, Dragon shows as evil.... Your only option is to kill it, leave the group, or fall.....

If your willing to disregard that they should disregard your Lich as a issue.....

so bad....

[MustacheFart]

I actually already had the game before I wrote this to see if there was anything I could have done differently.

As for how it went, well very very poorly to say the least. Before I walk in the tavern I disguise myself as a regular commoner. The moment I walk in the tavern the chaotic evil dragon sees me randomly detects undead and before I can really introduce myself he announces to everyone an undead is in the tavern, all the other PCs start freaking out and saying the mummies from yesterday must have tracked them back to town, and the NPCs start freaking out and screaming then yelling for the guards. I try to calm things down with bluff and roll very low. So then I try to hide and get out ASAP, but the entire city mobilizes and sends all available military forces to my location with every soldier armed with flamethrowers, despite hiding me and the rest of the party are set ablaze, the dragon then makes things worst by taunting the guards to get more heavy duty equipment out and we all end up in prison.

The sorcerer rolls high for knowledge religion and finds out I'm a Lich and tells the rest of the party, and the whole party already in a state of hysteria then tries to kill me (funnily enough they are all bound so unable to do anything but squirm and scream) or break out of prison to get away, while the dragon completely bound in steel laughs. Since they already know I'm a lich I comely greet them and introduce myself as a Lich, but have no intentions to harm them. Which results in the paladin breaking his chains and attempting to punch me before being burned up and restrained by the guards:smallbiggrin:

It sounds like 2 things are going on here:

1) The other players are metagaming big time, as pointed out by Alaris.

and

2) The CE Dragon thinks Chaotic = douche. I have gamed with several different people whom have played more like a douchbag than Chaotic when trying their hand at a chaotic character.

Honestly, the CE dragon is the problem. Maybe it's just me but I believe there is a real skill to playing the chaotic alignment while still maintaining a good cohesion with the rest of the party.

As for the game itself, I have two questions. First, why were they in the prison with you? If they outed you right off the bat would that have not joined up with the town in defeating you? How come you weren't killed or put in prison solo? Okay that's several questions but all about the same thing.

My last question is were the guards watching over your party avidly? What I mean is, did the paladin after breaking out get a chance to attack you at all?

If he did, I know what I would have done. Since you're undead I would have broken my arm off, escaped my bonds, and tried to Coup De Grace his helpless Pally ass once he's rebound. Or perhaps I would have done this to the CE Dragon.

It's really up to the rest of the party to be accepting which it sounds like they were at first but then stabbed you in the back. F that.

I once played in a game where Necromancers were the overarching enemy. Well I played the head Necromancer and future BBEG for the party. I introduced myself as a sorceror slave/apprentice of a Necromancer they had killed. He was actually my apprentice LOL. I used a Robe + either a Necklace of Fireballs or a Ring of Spell Storing to cast a fireball to convince the party.

I knew the Wizard in the party would try to out me first chance he could get and he had probable cause to since I was with a Necromancer. So I casted a fireball which he obviously determined to be Arcane (no necromantic spell there) and I was good to go. To add to my introduction, I openly admitted to my "evil-actions" of joining a Necromancer. Why would I admit to something bad I did unless I was ready to attone? I asked to make up for it by joining the Wizards Magic Academy. He thought I was a capable arcane caster and acted as a reference for my submission to his Academy.

Your mind can figure out the rest. Man you want to piss off a Wizard? Become the new principal in town :)

[Alaris]

No disguise running free, as for detect undead on random commoner, metagaming is the only explanation. As for the city magic is forbidden, but that's really all I know.

Funnily enough our Lawful Good Paladin is okay with people desecrating the corpses of his enemies by eating them (happened before arriving in the tavern in a previous session).


Huh, so MAGIC IS FORBIDDEN in the city, huh? So... how did the Dragon not get arrested for using "Detect Undead." I know he ultimately got arrested (along with the rest of you), but... blarg.

Also, the "Lawful Good Paladin" is no longer Lawful Good. He is at least True Neutral (maybe Lawful Neutral if he's lucky). And apparently his God is a REALLY NICE God, for letting him do what he's doing...

>.>

What...the hell... this game... ARGH!

[Story]

For what it's worth, Misdirection would have blocked Detect Undead. Though unfortunately, you won't have access to that at level 1.

[Amnestic]

This entire game seems like an enormous [Bad word]. I'm not sure whether it's just poor DMing or poor players (seems like a combination of both) but...yeesh.

[Yogibear41]

I'm just as curious as to why a lawful paladin and chaotic evil dragon are in the same party, I see the part about the paladin being basically stupid so sure he may not notice the dragon, but why would the dragon want to travel with him anyway?

Is your lich evil? Or is it one of those rare good liches they talk about in some faerun book. Do you actually have the lich template or are you just roleplaying as one? And how did a chaotic evil dragon start at level 1? What color is he? What is his age category? Is he using some sort of human shape form?


Edit: I feel bad for the samurai and to a lesser extent the paladin for playing with all these other OP characters lol :smallsmile:

Edit2: missed the part about the dragon not being disguised, interesting that an evil dragon can walk around in a city in which magic is banned...

[Nornalhorst]

It sounds like 2 things are going on here:

1) The other players are metagaming big time, as pointed out by Alaris.

and

2) The CE Dragon thinks Chaotic = douche. I have gamed with several different people whom have played more like a douchbag than Chaotic when trying their hand at a chaotic character.

Honestly, the CE dragon is the problem. Maybe it's just me but I believe there is a real skill to playing the chaotic alignment while still maintaining a good cohesion with the rest of the party.

As for the game itself, I have two questions. First, why were they in the prison with you? If they outed you right off the bat would that have not joined up with the town in defeating you? How come you weren't killed or put in prison solo? Okay that's several questions but all about the same thing.

My last question is were the guards watching over your party avidly? What I mean is, did the paladin after breaking out get a chance to attack you at all?

If he did, I know what I would have done. Since you're undead I would have broken my arm off, escaped my bonds, and tried to Coup De Grace his helpless Pally ass once he's rebound. Or perhaps I would have done this to the CE Dragon.

It's really up to the rest of the party to be accepting which it sounds like they were at first but then stabbed you in the back. F that.

The Chaotic Evil guy mostly just causes chaos and harasses people for the fun of it.

As for why we were all thrown in prison. The rest of the party is affiliated with the dragon and the dragon decided to use that time of chaos to taunt the guards eventually he was subdued and since the party is hanging out with this guy they are assumed to be involved in something as well, the construct however was thanked and let free for "capturing" the party.

As for guards watching the party yep, we had a guy with a flamethrower pointed into our cage the entire time so I never had to do anything as every time the paladin tried to punch me he was set on fire. Though with my 20 strength I could have easily broken my bonds, but I didn't want to be burned to a crisp. Though I did consider just giving everyone some good 1d8+5 dmg + infinite duration paralysis for their troubles. Surprisingly despite everyone yelling that I'm a lich the guards didn't seem to listen and turn me to ash on the spot.


I once played in a game where Necromancers were the overarching enemy. Well I played the head Necromancer and future BBEG for the party. I introduced myself as a sorceror slave/apprentice of a Necromancer they had killed. He was actually my apprentice LOL. I used a Robe + either a Necklace of Fireballs or a Ring of Spell Storing to cast a fireball to convince the party.

I knew the Wizard in the party would try to out me first chance he could get and he had probable cause to since I was with a Necromancer. So I casted a fireball which he obviously determined to be Arcane (no necromantic spell there) and I was good to go. To add to my introduction, I openly admitted to my "evil-actions" of joining a Necromancer. Why would I admit to something bad I did unless I was ready to attone? I asked to make up for it by joining the Wizards Magic Academy. He thought I was a capable arcane caster and acted as a reference for my submission to his Academy.

Your mind can figure out the rest. Man you want to piss off a Wizard? Become the new principal in town :)

That is some pretty good roleplay by you and your party.

[Nornalhorst]

I'm just as curious as to why a lawful paladin and chaotic evil dragon are in the same party, I see the part about the paladin being basically stupid so sure he may not notice the dragon, but why would the dragon want to travel with him anyway?

Is your lich evil? Or is it one of those rare good liches they talk about in some faerun book. Do you actually have the lich template or are you just roleplaying as one? And how did a chaotic evil dragon start at level 1? What color is he? What is his age category? Is he using some sort of human shape form?


Edit: I feel bad for the samurai and to a lesser extent the paladin for playing with all these other OP characters lol :smallsmile:

Edit2: missed the part about the dragon not being disguised, interesting that an evil dragon can walk around in a city in which magic is banned...

For your first question I really don't know.

As for my lich he is a neutral good Archlich (If I'm a lich I can't be evil by DM rules from what I was told the party may not want to work with an evil lich, but from how everything went it doesn't really matter) and I'm using the lich template.

The dragon is not a true dragon he's a half-red dragon. So its not as crazy as it may seem. He is also definitely not using any human shape form and everyone around knows he's a chaotic evil half-dragon.

[Sith_Happens]

Well obviously the first step is to cheerfully ask the half-dragon (in-character), "So what tipped you off?" If he can't come up with a good answer, laugh it off and give him a pat on the back.:smallwink:

EDIT: Bonus points if he says "I casted Detect Undead" as if that was what you were asking. Response: "And do you inspect every peasant who walks into a tavern that way? I imagine you'd run out of spells rather quickly."