Knight's Challenge VS allies

[Qc Storm]

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20060523a

Test of Mettle is quite an interesting ability. Me and my group were wondering the following :

If the knight is mind controlled and turns against the party, can he use Test of Mettle to force them to attack him? Likewise for a confused knight.

[Gwendol]

In principle yes, but it only works on enemies. Also note that those affected will attack the knight, or include the challenger in their attacks, in preference over other targets. They are not forced to attack.
So, if your knight suddenly switches allegiance, and appears on the other side of the battlefield with his new buddies, he can sure issue a test of mettle, and maybe force some of you to target him over his new buddies, but that's it. He can't will you to attack, and the effect lasts for 5+CHA mod rounds.

[TopCheese]

If this happened to my teammate I would use my standard action to attack one of his new friends then use my free action to verbally attack him... *whistled innocently*

That or target him with a dispel magic/break enchantment or whatever...

[Shining Wrath]

If the mind control is strong enough the controlled person will use anything and everything they've got to obey orders. That would certainly include Test of Mettle.

Will SR against 10 + Knight Level + CHR is often doable for your team mates.

[Gwendol]

It's half knight levels.

[TopCheese]

If the mind control is strong enough the controlled person will use anything and everything they've got to obey orders. That would certainly include Test of Mettle.

Will SR against 10 + Knight Level + CHR is often doable for your team mates.

Ah but my insults are fricken awesome.

But does the test of mettle say that it will make a person act against its nature? Usually only really high high powered magic does that. Like most effects don't let you force a character to kill allies or jump off a cliff. The allies of the knight still view him as an ally...

Realistically it shouldn't work on allies since no matter what they won't want to kill/hurt their friend (with fireballs and swords). If you have a charismatic friend that says "shoot me" I highly doubt you will no matter how silver the person's tongue is.

[Gwendol]

Right, anyone failing their will save isn't forced to attack the knight, just choosing to attack the knight over other targets. So, in case of allies, if the knight is the only target in sight, they may simply choose not to attack at all, and so the challenge is wasted.

[Oscredwin]

Realistically it shouldn't work on allies since no matter what they won't want to kill/hurt their friend (with fireballs and swords). If you have a charismatic friend that says "shoot me" I highly doubt you will no matter how silver the person's tongue is.

If your comments are biting and focused enough that your team mates can't help but pay attention to them (CHA MOD) and your good at field positioning (Knight levels) then you can't help but include them in the fight. You also have the option of not attacking, which would also be very in theme for this situation.

[TopCheese]

If your comments are biting and focused enough that your team mates can't help but pay attention to them (CHA MOD) and your good at field positioning (Knight levels) then you can't help but include them in the fight. You also have the option of not attacking, which would also be very in theme for this situation.

But the Knight's allies knows all his tricks and how he goes about doing his goading. It is kind of like having an annoying friend that tells "your mom" jokes all the time, you learn to ignore him.

Or like having an annoying little sister, my sister was such an annoying spoiled little puke that not only can I ignore her but other people who talk trash. So although I wouldn't rule ALL knights are now useless against the allies but that one knight's test of mettle / challenge is useless.

[Oscredwin]

Or like having an annoying little sister, my sister was such an annoying spoiled little puke that not only can I ignore her but other people who talk trash.

It sounds like you have a high will save.

Also, a level 6 Knight with a CHA mod of 2 will have a DC of 15. This seems about right for being able to get under the skin of people she's been traveling with for months and aren't used to her trying to push their buttons.

[Shining Wrath]

It sounds like you have a high will save.

Also, a level 6 Knight with a CHA mod of 2 will have a DC of 15. This seems about right for being able to get under the skin of people she's been traveling with for months and aren't used to her trying to push their buttons.

And any level 6 character who doesn't have any save-boosting items (i.e., cloak of resist) is just plain asking for it.

[TopCheese]

It sounds like you have a high will save.

Also, a level 6 Knight with a CHA mod of 2 will have a DC of 15. This seems about right for being able to get under the skin of people she's been traveling with for months and aren't used to her trying to push their buttons.

Well no, again the allies would be used to him and his tactics. The game doesn't account for this aspect of the game because WoTC really sucks with dealing with charisma.

Plus they would know their LG ally is being mind controlled so what he is saying is being forced, why would they try to hurt their ally that is being controlled instead of finding the thing/person that is controlling him? It makes no sense what so ever and you stop playing a role playing game and start playing a roll playing game >.>

Edit: save boosting items at level 6? Well if the fighter/rogue didn't pay out his but for 1 or 2 weapons, armor, and shield (maybe), then he might be able to afford a save boosting item... Even then it would be a +1 maybe +2 ... Bad will save + no wis mod + save boosting item = fail.

Yeah so the argument is "hey the bad will save classes should be a christmas tree! Then they can ignore their friend/companion when he is obviously acting completely different and attacking the party"

Seriously the idea that the party would just shrug (wonder why knight is goading them) and attack the knight is just comical.