So, unless Durkon dies twice in the comic or the Order carries his body around... [Archive]

Edric O

2013-03-12, 02:58 AM

...vampire!Durkon will get to visit the Dwarven lands.

After all, there is a prophecy (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0331.html) that Durkon will return to his homelands "posthumously." Returning as a vampire counts as "posthumously." If he does NOT return as a vampire, that leaves only two options for the prophecy to come true:

1. Vampire!Durkon gets destroyed, Durkon is raised, then dies AGAIN and his body is returned to the Dwarven homelands. Hence the title of this thread. I think we can all agree this possibility is rather remote.

2. Vampire!Durkon gets destroyed, Durkon is NOT raised, and his dead body is somehow returned to his homelands. This is possible, but it would basically be a repeat of what happened with Roy's body. Plus, it would be illogical for the Order to rush off to the Dwarven lands with Durkon's body in tow. They'd either get him raised, or leave his body with the Azurites.

Option #1 seems ridiculously convoluted, and option #2 seems unlikely for literary reasons (too similar to a past plot). So I conclude that it is most likely Vampire!Durkon will go to the Dwarven lands, either with the Linear Guild or with Team Evil...

...which also fits nicely with that other prophecy from the prequel books.

Psyren

2013-03-12, 03:07 AM

Yes, these three possibilities have been guessed multiple times at this point. We'll have to wait and see how things ultimately unfold.

SowZ

2013-03-12, 03:08 AM

Reading OTOOPCs will give further clues.

Gildedragon

2013-03-12, 03:10 AM

Note that, were he destroyed and raised, his visit would still be posthumous.

Edric O

2013-03-12, 03:13 AM

Note that, were he destroyed and raised, his visit would still be posthumous.
Good point! I hadn't thought of that!

Yes, these three possibilities have been guessed multiple times at this point. We'll have to wait and see how things ultimately unfold.
Meh, I've got used to the idea that everything you post on this forum as a guess about the comic has already been ninja'd by someone at some point...

Roland Itiative

2013-03-12, 03:45 AM

Note that, were he destroyed and raised, his visit would still be posthumous.
That would depend on what "posthumous" means on the OotS world. In a world where death is such a fleeting thing, it might very well mean "while dead" instead of "after death". It sure goes against the word's root for "post", but it's not like "after death" would be completely faithful to the roots either.

I'd take the character's interpretations as a hint here. While a dying Roy immediately assumed he was going to be revived, showing just how natural such a thing is in that world, neither Roy nor Durkon took the Oracle's prophecy to mean he'd be resurrected before reaching the Dwarven lands.

Grynberg

2013-03-12, 05:21 AM

I'm more leaned towards another theory.
Durkon gets raised and after they are done with Girards gate they are going after the Kraagors gate which happens to be around Durkons homeland.
When Durkon returns (now posthumously since he's been dead), he is going to protect the gate with the rest of the Order. The chaos and destruction follow him in the form of Team Evil/Linear Guild.

Kish

2013-03-12, 08:09 AM

That would depend on what "posthumous" means on the OotS world.
I would venture that if the Oracle meant something different than what the common English word meant to the audience, someone would have indicated such.

Or at least, Durkon would not have spelled out (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0333.html) "It means 'after I die,'" instead of, "It means 'while I'm dead.'"

stsasser

2013-03-12, 09:04 AM

I could see the Order staking Durkon and hauling him to a cleric.

I could also see Belkar amusing himself by pulling out the stake, waking Durkon, and then putting the stake back in...repeatedly...until Roy catches him doing it.

JackRose

2013-03-12, 11:42 AM

Keep in mind that Roy knows how important it is to Durkon to be buried in the Dwarven homelands. If Durkon does wind up dead and can't be resurrected for whatever reason, I don't think that Roy would completely disregard his wishes for his body to be returned to his home to rest.

That said, given the other prophecy about Durkon's return, yes, I think it likely that he'll be a vampire.

Finwe

2013-03-12, 12:15 PM

That would depend on what "posthumous" means on the OotS world. In a world where death is such a fleeting thing, it might very well mean "while dead" instead of "after death". It sure goes against the word's root for "post", but it's not like "after death" would be completely faithful to the roots either.

I'd take the character's interpretations as a hint here. While a dying Roy immediately assumed he was going to be revived, showing just how natural such a thing is in that world, neither Roy nor Durkon took the Oracle's prophecy to mean he'd be resurrected before reaching the Dwarven lands.

Death is not a fleeting thing in OOTS-verse. Raise dead is a fifth level cleric spell, and costs more money to cast than most individuals will see in their lifetimes. Is is only the very wealthy (e.g. mid to high level adventurers and the more powerful aristocrats) who have access to resurrecting magic.

dps

2013-03-12, 01:30 PM

It's also possible that Durkon gets destroyed and rezzed, but then doesn't manage to go back to the Dwarven lands within the story for some reason, and his body is taken there in an epilogue after he finally dies of old age. I don't think it's likely, but it's possible.

Vinsfeld

2013-03-12, 04:40 PM

I could also see Belkar amusing himself by pulling out the stake, waking Durkon, and then putting the stake back in...repeatedly...until Roy catches him doing it.

That would be pretty funny.

rodneyAnonymous

2013-03-12, 09:09 PM

Dying a second time is not necessary to fulfill the "posthumously" prophecy.

mrzomby

2013-03-12, 09:41 PM

Doesn't Durkon need dirt from his homeland for his coffin, which Malack is about to make for him?

lio45

2013-03-12, 09:43 PM

I would venture that if the Oracle meant something different than what the common English word meant to the audience, someone would have indicated such.

Or at least, Durkon would not have spelled out (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0333.html) "It means 'after I die,'" instead of, "It means 'while I'm dead.'"

FYI, "what the common English word means to the audience" is BOTH "after I die" AND "while I'm dead", because the two have always been 100% the same thing for us humans...

...and when you decide to allow the idea of possible resurrection to enter the scene, creating a distinction between the two, I would say that then, the idea of "what the common English word means to the audience" is in fact way closer to "while I'm dead".

Think about it.

(And, the way I see it, Durkon's "after I die" pretty clearly implies "after I die, but before my dying has been reversed, if it ever is". "After I die" means that you're dead... if you're not dead, then you're not in the state you'd be expected to be after you die, so it's really strongly implied there IMO.)

Sethram

2013-03-13, 11:10 AM

Well since we're arguing based off of definition let's get to brass tacks. We all know the post signifies after, but the root of humous is actually a name for soil high in organic content. So when broken down posthumous means after dirt.

And since they will be needing dirt for his coffin, I guess you could say his return to his will be posthumous in the most literal sense of the word.

jedipilot24

2013-03-13, 11:16 AM

ManuelSacha

2013-03-13, 11:18 AM

"Option 2" seems actually VERY LIKELY.
Let's say the world is saved, the adventure is over, and the Order has one casualty (or more) to take care of.
It just seems right to bring the body back to his/her beloved ones.
It's not like they have much better to do, anyway.

However, the fact that there is a second prophecy about Durkon, saying he will bring devastation to his homeland when he returns... it seems likely that yes, he's going back home as a vampire.
Frankly, the moment Malack hinted at his "special diet", I had already connected both prophecies and concluded Durkon would have become a vampire.
This is going to be the outcome at 99%. Unless it was a red herring by the Giant, and in that case, "option 2" is inevitable.

Thrax

2013-03-13, 05:24 PM

I'm convinced now Vampire Durkon will get to dwarven lands, still with Malack, probably in pursuit of the Order who's retreating to Kraagor's Gate.

You see, the prophecy said Durkon will bring death and destruction to dwarven lands, and he will return posthumously. He's now a vampire (posthumously) and as Malack's "brother" he will be a cleric of Nergal (god of Death and Destruction - with this exact capitalisation, which means probably clerical domains). So yeah, there are twists on many things, but I don't expect one here.

rodneyAnonymous

2013-03-13, 09:47 PM

This is more or less what I think. The Oracle did have some flimsy interpretations (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0567.html)of his other prophecies.

The point of those flimsy interpretations were to try and convince Belkar the prophecy of his killing someone on the list was already complete. They weren't serious interpretations, the Oracle was trying to avoid being killed.

VanaGalen

2013-03-14, 06:29 AM

I don't really buy the theory about resurrected Durkon coming back alive and well to his homeland. Technically it would be correct, but I think it's still a big stretch. I have better opinion of the Oracle and his prophecies than doing something like that.

Carrying his body all the way to dwarven homelands would be deja vu of Roy & Haley. Plus, it would involve another afterlife side story, which we also had already enough of. It would be pretty cool to see Durkon meeting Thor, but few dozen of strips like we've seen with Roy would be too much imo.

Also, resurrecting Durkon now would be really anticlimactic - if he could simply go back to his old self, why bother with the whole Malack's mysterious identity thing, saving Belkar and that epic, 7-strip long fight?
Durkon's death had a huge impact on the story and it was carefully prepared. Resurrecting him too soon would be undoing of all that great development.

I think Durkon coming back as vampire is the most probable option now. So far we've seen him as vampire only in the stage of his hmm... infancy I suppose, so there is no way to tell how the vampirism affected his personality, judgment and alignment. However, I don't really see him as part of any of the evil teams. I think after he leaves Malack's protection, he might later rejoin the Order as their cleric, still being vampire.

Mastikator

2013-03-14, 10:00 AM

Reading OTOOPCs will give further clues.

Oh that would be putting salt into the wound. :/

Ozfer

2013-03-14, 10:40 AM

Earlier on the forums, someone called him, 'Durkula', which I like, and is easier than 'Durkon Pre-Vampirisation', or 'Live Durkon', or 'Vampire!Durkon'.

hamishspence

2013-03-14, 10:50 AM

I don't think I was the first to use the term "Durkula"- but I started using it not long after I first saw it.

Rakoa

2013-03-14, 10:55 AM

I wouldn't be surprised if several people came up with the term independently. After all, it isn't a horribly difficult stretch to make.

Kish

2013-03-14, 10:56 AM

Vampire Durkon is totally going to come through the fourth wall and slaughter everyone who has called him something silly before he gets resurrected.

martianmister

2013-03-14, 04:50 PM

Vampire Durkon is totally going to come through the fourth wall and slaughter everyone who has called him something silly before he gets resurrected.

Eduwarkon Culldenhield
Durferakon
Durkith Shieldillith
Andurgonal
Sduriken

Kish

2013-03-14, 07:26 PM

And martianmister apparently hates Durkon.

ChowGuy

2013-03-14, 07:59 PM

Eduwarkon Culldenhield
Durferakon
Durkith Shieldillith
Andurgonal
Sduriken

Nope. He's the Batmandwarf! a.k.a the Durk Knight.

Bulldog Psion

2013-03-14, 08:01 PM

He's prophesied to bring death and destruction to the dwarven homelands when he returns.

Nergal is god of death and destruction.

I think Durkon will be returning as an active vampire priest of Nergal, possibly in great wrath at having been thrown out.

GSFB

2013-03-15, 01:31 AM

hamishspence

2013-03-15, 04:43 AM

Nope. He's the Batmandwarf! a.k.a the Durk Knight.
Maybe. There's other names that could work though.

The Prince of Durkness? :smallamused:

Silverionmox

2013-03-15, 06:34 AM

IMO him visiting the dwarven homelands accompanied by Malack would suffice to "bring death and destruction" with him. Switching deities is not as trivial, story-wise, as erasing and rewriting a name on a character sheet.

KyrtFurey

2013-03-17, 09:50 PM

Zmeoaice

2013-03-17, 10:43 PM

It is also possible that Durkula gets killed by Team Evil or the LG and they bring his ashes to his homelands

And it seems odd that the Oracle would describe Durkon returning home as "posthumus" if he was going alive anyways. Unless he just wanted to screw with Durkon. But it still seems like a cop out. I think it means Durkula is going.