[PF] Invisibility + stealth skills

[Madeiner]

I am a DM using Pathfinder for my campaigns.
In 3.5, using invisibility gave you +20/+40 to hide rolls, but not to move silently ones.
In pathfinder, there is only one skill named "stealth" and invis gives +20/+40 to that skills.

What happens when you are sneaking around and people rely on hearing to notice you, instead of seeing you?
What if you are an invisible, heavily armored warforged sneaking around invisible, do you still get +20 to all checks while moving?
What if you are sneaking in a dark room, no one having darkvision except you. Do you still get +20 to stealth thanks to an invisibility that you aren't actually even benefiting from?
Am i missing something here?

Addendum: how often are you supposed to make stealth checks? Say you are entering a room, trying to steal a key from the neck of a sleeping guy.
Do you need to make a check each round you do something? Each "scene"?
Once for "navigating the room" and once for "taking the key"?

[Bhaakon]

This link (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/special-abilities#TOC-Invisibility)may answer some of your questions.

In short, invisibility gives you a +20 to stealth, but there are penalties to offset most or all of that bonus if you are moving around. If you're invisible and standing still, you get a net +40. If you're invisible and running, you get a net +0.

[AttilaTheGeek]

What happens when you are sneaking around and people rely on hearing to notice you, instead of seeing you?
What if you are an invisible, heavily armored warforged sneaking around invisible, do you still get +20 to all checks while moving?
What if you are sneaking in a dark room, no one having darkvision except you. Do you still get +20 to stealth thanks to an invisibility that you aren't actually even benefiting from?
Am i missing something here?

By RAW, you always get the bonuses. But RAW is dumb. As long as your invisibility might contribute even a little, I always give the bonus, because otherwise it's easy for a player to feel cheated out of it. For example, if the target hears you walking up behind them but doesn't see you, they might dismiss it as just the wind.


Addendum: how often are you supposed to make stealth checks? Say you are entering a room, trying to steal a key from the neck of a sleeping guy.
Do you need to make a check each round you do something? Each "scene"?
Once for "navigating the room" and once for "taking the key"?

Not too often. I'd roll a stealth check for each different thing a character does. Your example of "once for "navigating the room" and once for "taking the key"" is right on the money. Of course, it comes down to how you DM, but if you make the player roll stealth checks every 6 seconds then they will eventually roll a 1.

[VanIsleKnight]

Stealth Skill (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/skills/stealth)

Special

If you are invisible, you gain a +40 bonus on Stealth checks if you are immobile, or a +20 bonus on Stealth checks if you're moving.

[Madeiner]

By RAW, you always get the bonuses. But RAW is dumb. As long as your invisibility might contribute even a little, I always give the bonus, because otherwise it's easy for a player to feel cheated out of it. For example, if the target hears you walking up behind them but doesn't see you, they might dismiss it as just the wind.



Not too often. I'd roll a stealth check for each different thing a character does. Your example of "once for "navigating the room" and once for "taking the key"" is right on the money. Of course, it comes down to how you DM, but if you make the player roll stealth checks every 6 seconds then they will eventually roll a 1.


Thanks guys.
I like the "if invisibility can give even a small bonus i'd concede it" and i'll go with it.

About my example: navigating a room where a person is sleeping. Would you give the bonus for invisibility? I'd say no, but on a failed roll the person wakes up, and then you can roll again using the invisibility bonus this time?

[ericgrau]

If you are invisible you get a +20. IMO regardless of the reason why they can't see you be it darkness or whatever, you get a +20. Is this retarded? Ya, it is. I wouldn't run it the way Pathfinder says, I'd separate vision and hearing. Even if you roll one check for both say you can hear him but you can't see him. Doing it this way you can't be seen at all in total darkness without darkvision no matter how high the observer rolls. The only reason you can visually notice the presence of an invisible person is because of visual clues in the environment around him; that doesn't work with darkness.

Stealth is part of movement. Make checks once per move action or other movement. However if the stealthy person is not threatened or distracted, which usually means any time he is not in combat, he may take a 10 repeatedly rather than risking a series of rolls.