PDA

View Full Version : The Champion [high tier martial class, PEACH]



Belial_the_Leveler
2013-03-12, 06:23 PM
The Champion
http://digital-art-gallery.com/oid/0/640x498_485_Battle_2d_fantasy_elf_creature_monster _girl_female_woman_warrior_picture_image_digital_a rt.jpg

Abilities: Strength is the Champion's most important ability because most her offense is based off it. Constitution boosts both her hit-points and defensive abilities while Charisma enhances her leadership abilities.

Alignment: Any
Hit Die: d10

Class Skills: The Champion's class-skills are Acrobatics (Dex), Athletics (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Perception (Wis), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense motive (Wis), Survival (Wis) and Knowledge (Int).
Skill Points per Level: 6 + Int Modifier

Weapon and Armor Proficiency:
The Champion is proficient with all weapons, all armors and all shields.

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|Abilities

1st|
+1|
+2|
+0|
+2|weapon defense +2, bonus feat|
1st lvl

2nd|
+2|
+3|
+0|
+3|Weapon Training +1|
2nd lvl

3rd|
+3|
+3|
+1|
+3|bonus feat, weapon defense +3|
3rd lvl

4th|
+4|
+4|
+1|
+4|Armor Training +1|
4th lvl

5th|
+5|
+4|
+1|
+4|bonus feat, weapon defense +4|
5th lvl

6th|
+6/+1|
+5|
+2|
+5|Weapon Training +2|
6th lvl

7th|
+7/+2|
+5|
+2|
+5|bonus feat, weapon defense +5|
7th lvl

8th|
+8/+3|
+6|
+2|
+6|Armor Training +2|
8th lvl

9th|
+9/+4|
+6|
+3|
+6|bonus feat, weapon defense +6|
9th lvl

10th|
+10/+5|
+7|
+3|
+7|Weapon Training +3|
10th lvl

11th|
+11/+6/+1|
+7|
+3|
+7|bonus feat, weapon defense +7|
11th lvl

12th|
+12/+7/+2|
+8|
+4|
+8|Armor Training +3|
12th lvl

13th|
+13/+8/+3|
+8|
+4|
+8|bonus feat, weapon defense +8|
13th lvl

14th|
+14/+9/+4|
+9|
+4|
+9|Weapon Training +4|
14th lvl

15th|
+15/+10/+5|
+9|
+5|
+9|bonus feat, weapon defense +9|
15th lvl

16th|
+16/+11/+6/+1|
+10|
+5|
+10|Armor Training +4|
Mastery

17th|
+17/+12/+7/+2|
+10|
+5|
+10|bonus feat, weapon defense +10|
Mastery

18th|
+18/+13/+8/+3|
+11|
+6|
+11|Weapon training +5|
Mastery

19th|
+19/+14/+9/+4|
+11|
+6|
+11|bonus feat, weapon defense +11|
Mastery

20th|
+20/+15/+10/+5|
+12|
+6|
+12|Armor training +5|
Mastery[/table]

Bonus Feats [Ex]
A Champion can learn all combat feats by observing a feat once then spending 24 hours of practice to master it; she does not need to use up her normal or bonus feat slots and there is no upper limit to the feats she can learn that way.
She has a number of bonus feat slots; to actually use a learned feat she must focus on it by practicing for 10 minutes and put it in a bonus slot. She can thus have a number of "active" feats at a time equal to her bonus slots and changing them requires those minutes of practice.

Weapon Defense [Ex]
A Champion trains how to defend herself when armor and shields are unavailable or against attacks they are ineffective. She gets a +2 +1/2 class level competence bonus to AC. This does not stack with bonus from armor or shields and the Champion loses this bonus when she loses her dexterity bonus to AC.

Weapon Training [Ex]
At 2nd level, the Champion gains the indicated bonus in attack and damage to a specific weapon type such as all swords, all spears or all bows. Every four levels thereafter, she picks an additional weapon type to extend the bonus to and the bonus increases by 1. Natural Attacks are considered one category, Unarmed Strikes another. For example, a 10th level Champion could have a +3 bonus to Bows, Swords and Spears. An 18th level Champion could have a +5 bonus to Bows, Swords, Thrown Weapons, Axes and Unarmed Attacks.

Armor Training [Ex]
At 4th level and every 4 levels thereafter, the Champion's armor check penalty for all worn armor and shields decreases by 1 and the max dexterity bonus for all armor and shields increases by 1. Champions with the first level of Armor Training ignore speed reduction by armor and with the 2nd level ignore speed reduction by shields (if any).


CHAMPION ABILITIES [Ex]
The Champion is the ultimate martial combatant. Whether through dedicated training, exceptional talent, remarkable raw ability, sheer willpower and determination or other extraordinary circumstances, she masters an impressive array of techniques and combat styles. Beyond the limited bonuses of learning feats, the Champion's Paths give unmatched mastery over aspects of war, martial lore and conflict in general.
The Champion knows all Champion abilities of her level or less; the abilities below are in order of level thus a 1st lvl Champion would know the first ability in each table, a 5th level would know the first five and a 15th level champion would know all of them. To use an ability, she must prepare it; she can prepare a number of abilities from a given Path equal to the relevant ability score modifier for that path. Passive abilities need 8 hours of rest to be prepared. Activated or triggered abilities need 30 minutes of focus and practice.

Defender (Stamina)
Interpose: As an immediate action, move between an ally within reach and an incoming targeted or aimed attack or ability that would hit. The attack or ability automatically hits you instead of your ally. You are still entitled to saving throws and passive defenses.
Second Wind: As part of a total defense action, you can partially recover as if you'd rested for a day. Damage recovered that way is only partially recovered; it does not impede you or is counted against your HP total but any true healing (via real rest, magic or abilities) will first have to go through that damage before healing remaining wounds. Usable CON modifier times per day plus 1 per 4 class levels.
Block and Parry: Whenever an attack or touch attack is attempted within your reach or ranged attack (but not touch attack) crosses squares within your reach, you may roll an opposing attack roll with a weapon or shield at a -5 penalty. If successful, you deflect the attack. You take a cumulative -2 penalty to such rolls for every deflection attempted in the round (successful or otherwise)
Counterstrike: as an immediate action, you may perform an attack or ranged attack against a move or use of special ability or spell that takes at least a standard action to activate. If you hit, the attacker must succeed on a fortitude save or be prevented from taking the action. They lose no uses per day or spell slots if they do fail the save.
Extreme Endurance: immune to fatigue at 5th lvl, exhaustion at 10th lvl, stunning at 15th lvl, energy drain at 20th lvl
Physical Resistance: reduce ability damage/drain/penalty by 1, plus 1 more per 5 levels above 7th.
Enhanced Stamina: +2 enhancement to CON per 5 levels, max +6
Peerless Grace: add your charisma modifier to all saves.
Lasting Reserves: You have Fast Healing 1 as long as you have less than half your HP.
Greater Interpose: You may interpose more than 1/round. Each time you do, give up an action from the following round (swift, then move, then standard)
Surge of Vitality: as a swift action a number of times per day equal to your CON modifier, you may partially recover from ability damage, ability drain, energy drain, poison and disease. Effects thus partially recovered are not removed; unless really healed, they reappear within 1 hour per 3 class levels.
Legendary Stamina: +1 inherent to CON per 2 leveld over 10, max +5
Mobile Defender: You may move up to your speed as a free action before you attempt to interpose or block. You are still limited to no more than a run action's move in any single round.
Surge of Determination: if you fail your save to a lasting magical or supernatural effect or are affected by one without a saving throw, you may exert yourself to end the effect as an immediate action. If you do, you take -1 to attack, damage and skill rolls until you either rest or get the benefit of a Heal or Greater Restoration
Final Gasp: Unless you are decapitated, your body is destroyed or reduced to minus max HP or less, you may keep fighting after you'd otherwise be dead. This ability can be used for a number of rounds per day equal to your CON modifier. If you are fully healed or restored before use of this ability ends, you do not die but are exhausted until you rest for 24 hours, even if you'd normally be immune to exhaustion. Only abilities/spells that restore life to the dead can remove this fatigue

Paragon (Dexterity)
Fast Movement: as per Barbarian
Jump Attack: Jump 15 feet and attack as standard action. Add 1/4 athletics roll result to damage.
Improved Balance: take 10 on Acrobatics to balance in pressure
Hammer Blows: unarmed strike as monk of equal level
Great Jump; 30 ft jump as move action
Greater Fast Movement: as per monk
Enhanced Dexterity: +2 enhancement to DEX per 5 levels, max +6
Greater Balance: may balance on creatures, DC 15+CR or enemy's attack bonus.
Lightning Blows: flurry as monk of equal level with one-handed weapon
Greater Jump Attack: Jump 30 feet and attack as standard action. Add 1/2 jump roll result to damage.
Greater Jump; 60 ft jump as move action
Legendary Dexterity: +1 inherent to DEX per 2 levels over 10, max +5
Instant Dodge: as an immediate action may take a move action. If the move ends up beyond an attack's or effect's reach, range or area of effect or ends behind total cover, you are unaffected. Usable DEX modifier times per day.
Legendary Athlete: You may roll a reflex save to avoid mundane, extraordinary or supernatural threats that are not direct attacks or abilities and don't usually allow a saving throw. For example, against an avalanche or building collapse, a falling object, a door closing automatically or slammed shut by a creature to trap you, fissures opening beneath your feet, suddenly appearing pools of magma, magical traps that don't allow saves and so on and so forth. Save DC is 10+CR of the threat; if you save successfully you may move to the edge of the effect in time and remain unaffected. If the distance required to avoid an effect is longer than your double move you are still affected despite the successful save.
Perfect Balance: take 20 on Acrobatics checks once per minute. You can balance on impossible situations (such as on vertical walls, on the surface of water, atop clouds or the head of a pin) with a DC 50 acrobatics check.

Slayer (Wisdom or Strength)
Staggering Blow: standard attack; the enemy must make a fortitude save or be slowed for 1 round per point he failed the save.
Field Shot: when using a ranged weapon against an enemy without cover and in non-difficult terrain (such as a field, flying enemy, across an empty room) add DEX modifier to damage.
Dead to Rights: when you hit with a readied or otherwise aimed attack, the enemy is considered flat-footed and weapon damage dice are doubled.
Improved Aim: as a move action, you may aim on an enemy to gain +2 to your next attack in the same turn. As a standard action, you may aim on an enemy to gain +2 to all attacks against him on your next turn.
Extra Effort: you may take an extra standard or move action in a round. if you do, you are fatigued for 1 minute. (even if you'd normally be immune to fatigue)
Exploit Weakness: as a swift action, roll 1d20+class level+ wisdom mod vs object hardness+10 or enemy CR+10. If successful, +2 to attacks against target and ignore DR or hardness till end of turn. Alternatively, you may gain +1/2 class level to sense motive, reflex save and dodge AC till end of turn instead.
Crippling Blow: If you beat an enemy's AC by 10 or more with a standard attack or full, you may deal 1 damage to one of his physical ability scores.
Greater Aim: functions as improved aim. If you have both, the bonuses increase to +5
Grounding Blow: As a standard or full attack, if you hit a flying enemy you deal normal damage and they must make a fortitude save or fall to the ground (taking falling damage normally) as your stunning strike interrupts their flight. They can start flying again in subsequent rounds.
Deadly Blow: Take a standard or full attack. If you hit at least once, you cripple the enemy. Roll 1d4; the enemy takes a penalty equal to the roll to BAB, skills, saves, ability checks and caster/initiator level and reduces his maximum HP by 10 per -1 penalty. Multiple penalties stack; if an enemy has a penalty at least equal to his HD, they die horribly from their internal wounds. Immunity to energy drain or critical hits gives a saving throw against this ability. Creatures without functional internal anatomy (such as undead except for vampires, oozes and elementals) are immune.
Identify Vulnerability: Roll 1d20+class level + wisdom modifier vs enemy CR+10 as a swift action. If you do, learn one of his vulnerabilities; the energy type he's least defended against, the damage type that penetrates his DR or regeneration (if any), or his weakest saving throw.
Analyze defenses: As a swift action, roll sense motive or the approriate Knowledge skill against the enemy's CR+5. For every 2 points you exceeded his roll, learn one of the following: his AC, his touch AC, fort save, reflex save, will save, damage reduction, fast healing or regeneration (if any), his CMD, or spell resistance.
Perfect Strike: As a standard action, automatically hit target enemy with a melee or ranged attack without need for an attack roll or miss chance check. You deal 1d6 damage per relevant ability modifier (strength or dexterity) plus 1d6 per weapon training bonus plus 1d6 per enhancement bonus in the weapon. A fortitude save reduces the damage by half. Mettle and similar effects don't apply but Damage Reduction does.
Focused Insight: Once per round, choose an ability that gives you a numerical insight bonus or an unnamed bonus based on enemy analysis and information. Increase that bonus by +2.
Decapitation: standard attack, fortitude save or die else normal damage. If you roll a natural 20 (followed by a roll to confirm the hit), you decapitate, shoot through, crush or otherwise destroy an opponent's head, no save.

Tactician (Intelligence or Wisdom)
Combat Tactics: Perception check vs enemy CR+INT modifier+10. If successful, group gets +1 competence bonus to attacks and AC vs enemy till encounter end. Bonuses increase by 1 per 5 class levels (to a max of +5 at 20th level)
Prepare for the Worst: Group members roll perception vs ambush twice.
Combat Readiness: Group members roll initiative twice and take best roll.
Choose the Terrain: Make group preparations for 30 minutes to fight in a specific terrain to get +2 circumstance bonus to AC and Attack in that terrain. Circumstance bonuses stack
Formation Expert: Put group of at least 3 individuals in a specific formation. Declare one situation/enemy that the formation gives +2 circumstance bonus to attack and AC against and declare one equally significant situation/enemy that the formation gives -2 circumstance penalty to attack and AC instead.
Tactical Mobility: may move and melee full attack as full-round action
Greater Combat Readiness: If you have improved initiative then the entire group also has improved initiative. Enemies with Improved Initiative lose its initiative bonus against your group. Enemies without Improved Initiative lose their dexterity bonus to initiative against your group.
Choose the Field: Make group preparations for 30 minutes to fight in specific location to get +2 circumstance bonus to AC and saves in that location.
Trick the Enemy: Make a Knowledge (Tactics) check or Bluff check against the enemy's CR+Wis modifier+10 as a move action. If successful, the enemy believes that your worst save/defense is actually your best save/defense for 1 round of combat per point you beat the DC. Alternatively, you convince the enemy that a specific tactic is best against you (even though it might not be) or worst against you (even though it might be good). If the roll was successful, the enemy must make a will saving throw or employ that tactic.
Greater Tactical Mobility: may move and ranged full attack as full-round action
Anticipate: Make a Perception or Knowledge (tactics) check against enemy CR+Int modifier+10 or opposed by enemy's bluff check or Trick Enemy attempt as a Free action. If successful, you learn the action types the enemy intends to take in the following round. If you succeed by 5 or more, you learn the exact actions.
Informed Decision: Make a Perception check against enemy caster level+10 whenever a scrying, detect or similar divination spell would observe you or reveal information about you. If successful, you recognize you are being magically observed or detected via divinations.
Alternatively, make a Perception check against enemy caster level+10 whenever your senses are affected by an illusion. If successful, you get a will save against the illusion even if a save wouldn't normally be allowed (such as against invisibility). If successful by 10 or more, you see through the illusion without a save.
Always Ready: You may Ready an action outside combat, before combat begins or the initiative order. This action occurs the first time it is triggered without changing your initiative count. Readying a new action in that way is a standard action taken out of combat. If you're 12th level or higher, you may ready a full-round action instead. If you're 15th level or higher you may ready two standard actions and if you're 18th level you may ready three standard actions or two full-round actions.
Supreme Tactical Mobility: may full attack and double move as full-round action, dividing speed as chosen before, after and between attacks
Supreme Combat Readiness: You and your group always act in the surprise round and roll initiative normally. Each group member may either choose to ready an action outside of combat or take an extra round's worth of actions once during the encounter.

Tribal Warrior (Strength)
Rage: as per Barbarian ability
Smashing Blow: as a standard action, a melee attack you perform deals double damage to an object.
Cleave: as a standard action, attack two enemies with a single attack. Roll to hit and damage only once but critical confirmation separately.
Uncanny Dodge
Terrify: As a standard action, you may attempt to frighten a creature of your CR or less within 30 feet. Employ the Demoralize use of intimidate. If successful, the creature must make a will save or run in terror for 1 round per point it failed the save.
Whirlwind Strike: Perform a whirlwind attack; you automatically deal damage equal to your melee attack damage against adjacent enemies. A successful reflex save from an enemy means you need to hit his AC normally with your attack roll. Enemies adjacent to you don't get a flanking bonus to attack rolls against you this round. If you're 10th level or higher, you deal damage twice (with separate reflex saves and resistances) and if you're 15th level or higher you deal damage 3 times. This is weapon damage; DR and similar defenses still apply.
Enhanced Might: +2 enhancement to STR per 5 levels, max +6
Stunning Blow: as a standard action, perform a melee attack against an enemy. If you hit you deal damage normally and the enemy must make a fortitude save or be stunned for 1 round.
Ruinous Wrath: For a number of rounds per day equal to 2x class level plus strength modifier, your attacks ignore DR and hardness and deal double damage to objects and constructs. You may enter a Ruinous Wrath while entering a Rage, activating both. If you do, expend the duration of either the Ruinous Wrath or the Rage, not both.
Improved Uncanny Dodge
Greater Rage: as per Barbarian ability, fatigue lasts twice as long
Legendary Might: +1 inherent to STR per 2 levels over 10, max +5
Tornado Charge: Perform a whirlwind strike while charging; you strike once at all enemies coming within reach during your charge and enemies don't get attack of opportunity against you for moving. The level for dealing damage twice is increased to 15 and for dealing it 3 times is increased to 18.
Irresistible Blow: as a standard attack with a weapon wielded with two hands (melee or ranged), you may hit as a touch attack rather than a normal blow. Enemies hit must make a fortitude save or be stunned for 1d4+1 rounds, a reflex save or be knocked prone and disarmed, and a will save or suffer from great pain for 1 minute (similar to the symbol of pain effect).
Mighty Rage: as per Barbarian ability, exhausted instead of fatigued

Warlord (Charisma)
Encourage: roll diplomacy or bluff to bolster an ally. This works as the demoralize action of Intimidate except it gives a +2 morale bonus to an ally.
Remove Fear: as a move action, you give an ally or follower a new saving throw or resistance roll against an ongoing fear effect.
Army Commander: you may spend 10 minutes to apply a warlord ability to an entire army or other large fighting group under your command. An army may be affected only by one morale ability at a time.
Unshakable Focus: you get a bonus to saving throws vs fear, charm and compulsion equal to 1/2 class level.
Inspire Loyalty: as a move action, you give an ally or follower a new saving throw against an ongoing charm or compulsion.
Group Guidance: you may use the Demoralize or Encourage actions on 1 enemy or ally per class level at once. If you're 12th level or higher, as a full-round action, you may demoralize enemies at the same action you are encouraging allies. Use the highest of the two rolls.
Enhanced Presence: +2 enhancement to CHA per 5 levels, max +6
Leadership/Bribery: You can convince NPCs of 6 HD or less to perform services for you. Convincing an NPC requires the same rewards and the same negotiation time and charisma checks as a Lesser Planar Ally spell, except you convince available NPCs instead of calling them and you don't need to trap the NPCs in question unless they are hostile. At 12th level you may convince NPCs of 12 HD or less as per Planar Ally and at 16th level you may convince NPCs of 18 HD or less as per Greater Planar Ally.
Heroic Inspiration: As a standard action a number of times per day equal to your Charisma modifier, you may affect an ally or follower as if by the Heroism spell. If you're at least 15th level, you affect them as if by Greater heroism instead. If you're at least 14th level, you could affect all allies/followers within 50 ft per class level as per Heroism and if you're at least 18th level you could affect them as per Greater Heroism.
Frightful Presence: enemies with less than half their HP and of your CR or lower that get a morale penalty from you immediately flee in panic until either the morale penalty is removed or their HP increases above half.
Mass Inspire Loyalty: As a standard action, give all allies and followers within 50 ft per class level a new saving throw against charm or compulsion.
Legendary Presence: +1 inherent to CHA per 2 levels over 10, max +5
Overwhelming Presence: allies and followers that have a morale bonus from you keep fighting until they die; they don't fall unconscious at -1 HP. Alternatively, you may employ your overwhelming presence to convince others; as a full-round action you may attempt to cow, convert, brainwash or otherwise subvert creatures you interact with; they must make a will save or be frightened or charmed (your choice). Failing a 2nd save makes them panicked or charmed and heroic (as per heroism) and failing a 3rd save makes them cowering or fanatic followers.
Subvert Control: As a full-round action, make an Influence check (with bluff, intimidate or diplomacy) against a sentient creature controlled by an enemy but not naturally loyal to that enemy (such as slaves, conscripts, summoned or called creatures, bound undead, dominated creatures and so on). If successful, the creature breaks its master's control and must make a will save or concentration or sense motive check; if it fails, it helps you for 10 minutes out of gratitude. If the creature's controller is present, they can oppose your subversion attempt with an opposed concentration, bluff or intimidate check, or a caster level check (but not both) against your influence roll. If the creature's controller is not present, they get no roll to oppose you; your skill allows you to easily find loopholes in even magical control and turn the magic against itself.
Arranged Intervention: By paying 10.000 gp and making arrangements for 1 hour, you can set up some backup against potential threats; at a prearranged time and location a number of creatures of total CR no higher than your class level arrive and help you for a single encounter or fight. By increasing the preparation by 1 hour, you can also arrange for a greater teleport or greater plane shift to have your allies appear instantly in distant locations. By increasing the preparation by another 1 hour, you further arrange for a special signal (such as magical communication, a flare gun and the like) through which you can trigger your allies' arrival at a set time as a standard action. You can have any number of arranged interventions provided you can fund them in advance; competent and wealthy commanders can arrange for entire armies of mercenaries to appear on the battlefield... or not appear to help their enemies, as the case may be.
Alternatively, a sufficiently knowledgeable commander of at least 17th level can make 1 hour of preparation and a Knowledge: Planes roll or Diplomacy (contacts) roll at a -10 penalty to learn the name or title that a powerful extraplanar entity will respond to if uttered. As a standard action, they may utter the name or title, calling the entity in question. This functions as a Gate spell, with all the associated spells and ramifications, except it is the magic of the True Name or title uttered that brings the creature rather than the power of the Champion. Normally, entities drawn away from their homes like that without being magically bound with a mighty spell might seek to slay the ritualist but a powerful Warlord has the fame and skill to deal with them diplomatically; a Diplomacy roll against DC 15 + the entity's CR during the calling (and the offering of a Gate spell's cost in GP or XP) ensures that the entity does not turn against the Champion.




Champion Masteries [Ex]
Masteries are very powerful abilities that the most legendary Champions have. Slaying a horde of foes. Becoming an unstoppable juggernaught. Acting with the speed of thought. Turning the tide of battle with your presence alone. Anticipating and countering your foes' every action for a time. Fighting perfectly for but a moment. Deny death itself.
Masteries require a score of 30 in the relevant ability modifier;
Deny Fate: 1/day per 10 class levels, if you would be killed, petrified or otherwise permanently destroyed or incapacitated, you may immediately expend a use of this ability. If you do, your legendary stamina and determination shrugs off lasting harmful effects and recovers HP equal to 1/2 your maximum.
Moment Out of Time: You act with impossible speed. Once per encounter as a standard action, roll 1d4+1. You can act for that many rounds' worth of actions either all at once in an effect similar to Time Stop or at a rate of 1 additional round of actions per normal round in which you can affect others normally.
Perfect Counter: A number of rounds per day equal to your constitution modifier you can take any number of immediate actions per round, though still no more than 1 immediate action per trigger.
Grand Strategist: Once per day per 5 class levels, you select the initiative order rather than allies and enemies rolling initiative. A number of times per day equal to your intelligence modifier you may change a creature's initiative score as a swift action (no save). If you change it to an initiative count already past, that creature does not act that round. If you change it to an initiative count yet to come, it acts then even if it has already acted that round.
Unstoppable Behemoth: A number of rounds per day equal to your strength modifier, you automatically succeed on strength checks to bull-rush, overrun, trip, break objects and obstacles, may perform such checks as part of your move, and might make a fortitude save against an effect's saving throw or damage dealt from an attack; if successful the damage or effect is negated.
Legendary Rally: Once per encounter you can rally a defeated party, beleaguered group, broken army or retreating fighting force as a full-round action. All negative mind-affecting effects (morale penalties included) on the group are ended, the group is hasted for 1 minute and during that minute they may keep fighting without dying or being staggered until they reach minus max hp or are disintegrated, decapitated or otherwise have their bodies destroyed.

SamBurke
2013-03-12, 06:48 PM
I believe it may just be T2 or even T1.

I think that's a win...

However, several things are missing. Invisibility, flight, miss chances, negating all of those, summoning, planar travel, faster travel (teleports, blink, etc). However, these are solid. I watch with interest.

Just to Browse
2013-03-12, 06:52 PM
This class still totally gets pubstomped by wizards and sorcerers. It's abilities are obscenely strong at level 1, come to good balance around levels 4-6, and then fall off when casters start liberally using 3rd-level spells and learn how to use their 4th-level ones.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2013-03-12, 06:55 PM
Few if any abilities that have much utility outside of combat.
No way to circumvent or match a large majority of magical buffs, effects, and impediments.
Cannot adapt to various encounters in an efficient manner.
Lacks the ability to outright solve any encounter at any time.
In short, approximately as flexible as a Tome of Battle class, and probably a bit less so.


Low Tier 3 at best, strong (powerwise) mid-high Tier 4 at worst. I'm a bit in favor of the latter categorization, as I feel a well built Tome of Battle character is a bit more flexible.

I also think this suffers from ability bloat, as 40 abilities that vary in uses per day/per encounter/per round/whatever with varying costs and varying uptime (ranging from counting times per day to at will but activated to always active) is a LOT of bookkeeping, and we have nine extra feats on top of that.

Grod_The_Giant
2013-03-12, 06:58 PM
A agree with Just to Browse. It's quite, possibly too strong at the first few levels, but it even the high-level abilities aren't that unreasonable. Remember, T2 breaks the game, and T1 can break the game multiple ways. This is decently balanced against, say, ToB classes. Also, the skill list is crap, and he still doesn't get much in the way of out-of-combat abilities.

The wording of your bonus feat ability is extremely confusing, and I have no idea how it's supposed to work.

Belial_the_Leveler
2013-03-12, 07:08 PM
@Sam Burke:
Miss chances and mirror images are dealt with the pathfinder feat Greater Blindfight. Scry-and-Die can be defended against via the Tactical tree - you know when the wizard scries you, aren't surprised when he teleports in, beat him in initiative, and hit him with readied action +counter + mobile full attack as soon as he arrives. A caster retreating via teleportation or planar travel is actually good news; you get XP for defeating him. :smallamused:

@Just to Browse:
Have you actually tested that? Because I am not sure a 8th level wizard could take on an equal level Champion. Especially not a ranged champion.

@Djin_in_Tonic:
This class focuses on manipulating conflicts. It won't have out-of-conflict abilities except for the morale bonuses (I'm leaving those for my generic rogue).
For power, again, have you actually tested it? A preliminary test against CR 20 pathfinder monsters gives comparable results to spellcasters.

@Grod_the_Giant:
Breaking the game is debatable. Ability save DCs for, say, a Champion's Counterstrikes could be 33 by level 20, 37 while raging, 39 with ability focus. Her attack roll with a bow at that level would be 20 base +10 ability +5 enhancement +5 weapon training +2 greater focus = +42.
So someone trying to, say, cast a spell within her range gets hit, takes damage and must make that save or lose the spell.
And that's ONE of her counters.

Now, what are you going to hit her with? Ability damage/drain? Ignored. Energy Drain? Ignored. Stun? Ignored. Save-or-Lose? You have to hope for a natural 1 in most cases. Damaging rays? Her touch AC is 10 + 12 weapon defense +10 ability +6 items +4 insight = 48. You better have a mighty high attack bonus.
So she's tough. But the kicker is that she forces you to hit her instead of her party. Each time you try to energy drain or save-or-lose the party wizard, she interposes and shrugs off your attack with her immunities and saves.

Grod_The_Giant
2013-03-12, 07:18 PM
Tier 1 isn't "can beat a wizard in a fight," though. It means being able to win in just as many ways as a wizard. That's both in- and out-of-combat. A Tier 1 martial character will look a lot more like a Solar than anything we know in D&D. The closest I can think of is a ToB character with the ability to learn as many maneuvers as he wants, and access to new schools giving all manner of social and other out-of-battle abilities. And more broken maneuvers like Iron Heart Surge.

Just to Browse
2013-03-12, 07:19 PM
I did a series of intellectual exercises. The wizard cannot be found by the champion unless he wishes to be (invis, imp invis, rope trick) and so he will find the champion before the champion finds him (scrying). This means he has the surprise round, which means he can use a variety of tricks including solid fog, tentacles, throw hella walls, crazy illusions, enervate, fearblast, or just plow the champion with undead minions. Or maybe polymorph himself and go to town if he wants to dive through some sourcebooks.

He could especially ignore a ranged champion, because wind wall and kiting with spells.

EDIT: And Grod is right. We're looking at no trap disabling, no flight control unless he can already fly or uses range (at which point we're looking at no damage), no SoD immunity, no far-end scrying, no ability to cream creep waves, no way to beat up swarms or ghosts, and no real way of fighting ability damage.

Chambers
2013-03-12, 07:21 PM
The class doesn't really need to be playtested in order to determine whether it's Tier 1 (or Tier 2 for that matter).

A few simple questions can suffice.

Which of it's abilities allow it to:

- "Be capable of doing absolutely everything, often better than classes that specialize in that thing?"
- "Be often capable of solving encounters with a single mechanical ability and little thought from the player?"
- "Have world changing powers at high levels?"

If the answer is none, then it's not Tier 1.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2013-03-12, 07:23 PM
@Djin_in_Tonic:
This class focuses on manipulating conflicts. It won't have out-of-conflict abilities except for the morale bonuses (I'm leaving those for my generic rogue).

Then it is not Tier 1 or Tier 2, and barely Tier 3. All of those Tiers require the ability to contribute to any (for the first two) or almost any encounter. Tier 1 and Tier 2 require the ability to potentially have a solution to any problem, and that solution is usually better than the solution of someone who specializes in that method of problem solving.


For power, again, have you actually tested it? A preliminary test against CR 20 pathfinder monsters gives comparable results to spellcasters.

I don't need to playtest it, because power isn't the only issue. The UberCharger can one-shot the Tarrasque with basically a 95% success rate, and is still solidly Tier 5 because that's all it can do.

PairO'Dice Lost
2013-03-12, 07:24 PM
I agree with the consensus: pure power does not T2 make, and like other martial classes it starts falling off around level 7-10.


Also, the skill list is crap, and he still doesn't get much in the way of out-of-combat abilities.

It looks like he's using the PF skill system, in which case it has about 1/3 of the total list as class skills; not amazing, but not really crap.


The wording of your bonus feat ability is extremely confusing, and I have no idea how it's supposed to work.

Looks to me like the champion learns feats like a wizard learns spells and readies them like a ToB class: watch someone use a feat, learn it yourself, have up to [level/2] available at any given time. It would be pretty nice if having dozens of feats available was a real strength, but as we know, existing feats aren't anything to write home about.


Have you actually tested that? Because I am not sure a 8th level wizard could take on an equal level Champion. Especially not a ranged champion.

A ranged champion at 8th level (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/windWall.htm), you say?

Looking at the abilities available to a ranged champion, Weapon Training is just numbers, feats do that or give you more attacks or let you avoid cover/concealment, and the Slayer path abilities let you slow someone on a crit, add damage, add more damage, add attack, attack more at the cost of fatigue, add attack and ignore DR, increase reflexes and AC, deal stat damage, add attack, drop a flying enemy to the ground assuming they're within 1 round's falling distance of the ground, learn a weakness, learn more stats, debuff an enemy, add attack, and use a SoD, respectively.


All of those abilities are either straight numerical boosts or the equivalent of low-level spells, with only Decapitation resembling a mid-level spell and one requiring a melee attack (I assume, though ranged attack isn't much better) at that. Honestly, that's not very impressive; it's not a matter of being able to take down a T1 caster (which that path can't do any better than any other martial type), it's a matter of having options and versatility that that path just doesn't give him.

wayfare
2013-03-12, 07:28 PM
You've run into similar issues with my old fighter fix -- the class can be any kind of combatant, but cant do too much beyond combat. Thats not an insult to your build, its just the reality of all stuff casters can do via spells, even in core.

SamBurke
2013-03-12, 07:35 PM
I know a lot of people are being down on this, but I'll respond simply: It's a great idea! It really is. Just add more things to cover what people are saying.

Empedocles
2013-03-12, 07:37 PM
I know a lot of people are being down on this, but I'll respond simply: It's a great idea! It really is. Just add more things to cover what people are saying.

I agree. This could also prove an interesting path to the Tier 3 fighter everybody is always trying to make - working down, instead of up.

Belial_the_Leveler
2013-03-12, 07:58 PM
The 20th level wizard isn't tier 1 against 20th level diplomatic, subterfuge, infiltration and information-gathering challenges. Go ahead, charm or invisibly avoid the Balor. Dominate the king into paying you more in his Hallowed throne room and try to gate, summon or teleport with that dimensional anchor tied to the entire building. Use divinations against BBEGs in their lead-lined rooms.

People forget that while the wizard might technically have abilities that could solve all problems of all types, by the time he actually encounters those problems those abilities are not going to work 90% of the time because they can be easily and cheaply countered. And each spell the wizard memorizes to counter a noncombat problem is one slot that won't be used in combat.

Djinn_in_Tonic
2013-03-12, 08:03 PM
The 20th level wizard isn't tier 1...

What? The Wizard is the definitive example of Tier 1 across all levels.

Just because counters to his stuff exists (most of which he can get around) doesn't make him not Tier 1. If you're playing by those rules, let's consider how much easier it is to completely obsolete physical damage, for example.

wayfare
2013-03-12, 08:06 PM
The 20th level wizard isn't tier 1 against 20th level diplomatic, subterfuge, infiltration and information-gathering challenges. Go ahead, charm or invisibly avoid the Balor. Dominate the king into paying you more in his Hallowed throne room and try to gate, summon or teleport with that dimensional anchor tied to the entire building. Use divinations against BBEGs in their lead-lined rooms.

People forget that while the wizard might technically have abilities that could solve all problems of all types, by the time he actually encounters those problems those abilities are not going to work 90% of the time because they can be easily and cheaply countered. And each spell the wizard memorizes to counter a noncombat problem is one slot that won't be used in combat.

Well, you use those abilities so you don't have to actually do combat. Besides, once you get to summoning things that are full casters themselves, you start breaking action economy so hard that it wimpers and waves a white flag.

A wizard with one 9th level spell can create entire encounters that martial types have to navigate.

Grod_The_Giant
2013-03-12, 08:12 PM
The 20th level wizard isn't tier 1 against 20th level diplomatic, subterfuge, infiltration and information-gathering challenges. Go ahead, charm or invisibly avoid the Balor. Dominate the king into paying you more in his Hallowed throne room and try to gate, summon or teleport with that dimensional anchor tied to the entire building. Use divinations against BBEGs in their lead-lined rooms.
To your diplomatic challenges, I say charm/dominate monster. To getting past the balor, how 'bout a time stop, during which I draw a magic circle against evil and drop a dimension anchor around him? Or, you know, teleport. To your warded rooms, I say quickened invisible dispel magic, followed by whatever spell may be relevant.

[QUOTE]People forget that while the wizard might technically have abilities that could solve all problems of all types, by the time he actually encounters those problems those abilities are not going to work 90% of the time because they can be easily and cheaply countered. And each spell the wizard memorizes to counter a noncombat problem is one slot that won't be used in combat.
Yeah, ah... if it takes equally powerful magic to magic, magic is still king. If the only way to defend against a full caster is to have another full caster around, you're not solving any of the issues. If charm spells could be countered by wearing a horseshoe, and teleports by adding a thin layer of lead to the walls of your castle, you'd have a point.

That's not to say this fix is bad, because it's quite nice for a T3. But it ain't nowhere near broken enough to be T1.

JKTrickster
2013-03-12, 08:12 PM
The 20th level wizard isn't tier 1 against 20th level diplomatic, subterfuge, infiltration and information-gathering challenges.

You do realize that most people consider the Wizard Tier 1 because it can do those things better than anyone else right?

If you disagree, do you think anyone can do it better than the Wizard?

And for that matter, can your class do it better than the Wizard? Because that is the challenge for any class that wants to be Tier 1.


Go ahead, charm or invisibly avoid the Balor. Dominate the king into paying you more in his Hallowed throne room and try to gate, summon or teleport with that dimensional anchor tied to the entire building. Use divinations against BBEGs in their lead-lined rooms.

These are not actually how a Tier 1 God Wizard would solve those problems. There are literally spells out there that you don't seem to know (that would solve those problems).



People forget that while the wizard might technically have abilities that could solve all problems of all types, by the time he actually encounters those problems those abilities are not going to work 90% of the time because they can be easily and cheaply countered.

You can't just state "those abilities are not going to work 90% of the time" without backing it up.

And even then - what abilities does this class offer? Can it fly? Can it become invisible? Anything?


And each spell the wizard memorizes to counter a noncombat problem is one slot that won't be used in combat.

You seem to imply here that combat problems > non combat problems.

That just isn't the case.

In DnD 3.5 it is ridiculously easy to win at combat. Dealing damage isn't hard. By level 10, Wizards have more spell slots than they ever need.

I remember someone making a hypothetical monster that was immune to "everything" and it took the playground less than a day to destroy it. In a round.

The hardest part of DnD 3.5 encounters have always been the non combat problems. You are trivializing one of the most important parts.

Gnorman
2013-03-12, 08:47 PM
I have to chime in and agree. A class focusing solely on combat will never rise above Tier 3.

This is not a bad thing. Trying to make the fighter Tier 1 is fixing the wrong problem.

Don't focus on making a fighter "as good as the wizard." You're not going to be able to. The wizard has dozens of splatbooks and hundreds of spells. That's what makes him Tier 1 - he is theoretically capable of solving any problem, usually in multiple ways.

To my eyes, this is solidly Tier 3. It can solve quite a few combat problems with a wide number of ways of handling them. But it is not capable of the world-shattering versatility required for Tiers 1 & 2.

It still has a lot of potential though! Don't sell it as Tier 1, get people to judge it on its own merits, and avoid "numbers-go-up" abilities; if you can do that, I think you'll have a very interesting chassis to work with.

EDIT: Also, I agree with the "ability bloat" comment above - you should probably try to consolidate some of these. They need streamlining badly.

JoshuaZ
2013-03-12, 08:54 PM
Please read why each class is in its tier (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5070.0). You seem to be under a fundamental misunderstanding of how the Tier system works. This isn't like a fighter videogame where Tier is determined simply by how much damage you can dish out.

A lot of the comments here have been on point. This is probably T3. But I'd like to throw out one other thing that every T1 character can do fairly easily: Travel to other planes. This is one of many examples where there are things which are so fundamentally *magical* that they just aren't ever going to be something a martial class can do (unless you fluffed it as something like cutting the fabric of reality, and that's really pushing it).

Martial classes are going to be very hard to get above T3, and that's ok.

Zman
2013-03-12, 11:06 PM
Tier 1: Ha! Nope.
Tier 2: Still no.
Tier 3: Possibly, but lacks sufficient versatility.
Tier 4: Yes.
Over Powered Tier 4: Most definitely yes.


This class suffered from a horrendous amount of bookkeeping and is lacking by every definition of a Tier 1 class, which is a good thing as Tier 1 classes should not be the design goal. It's got big numbers, but big numbers do not a High Tiered class make.

Belial_the_Leveler
2013-03-13, 07:10 AM
OK guys, I overhauled the mechanics significantly;


1) Made feat selection clearer and simpler
2) Simplified and reduced the number of ability choices while making them modular. No more book-keeping nightmare.
3) Expanded the skills.
4) Added some powerful attacks.
5) Boosted/condensed the buffs.
6) Significantly improved the action economy control abilities.
7) Added some extra counters.
8) Significantly improved the social/out-of-combat utility of several abilities.


So, she now can contribute in pretty much every situation.

Amechra
2013-03-13, 07:28 AM
The ability choices are horribly written. You have certain abilities which are clearly intended to be advancements of other abilities, which you can take without, you know, even looking at the ability that is obviously a prerequisite (Interpose and Greater Interpose are good examples.)

In addition, when are you getting your Champion Abilities? The class text doesn't say, and neither does the table. Are they prepared in feat slots? Or are they in their own slots?

What is a "combat feat"? That isn't a term in 3.5. A nice strict definition would be nice.

It is rather telling that the few good abilities are directly duplicating spells (though having a bribery class feature based off of Planar Ally is a nice idea), while their main contribution to social contact with others, Overwhelming Presence, goes from "making them my friends" to "make them my mind slaves" and... duration/how does it actually work? Do they have to make a further save if they fail the first? Do you have to apply the ability to them another time? Or what?

Powerdork
2013-03-13, 08:10 AM
What is a "combat feat"? That isn't a term in 3.5. A nice strict definition would be nice.

It may not be a 3.5 term, but it is a Pathfinder one. Basically (and I might be oversimplifying here) fighter bonus feats.

Belial_the_Leveler
2013-03-13, 08:15 AM
The champion knows all abilities of her level or less. I.e. a 1st level champion would know all #1 abilities in all paths. A level 5 champion would know abilities #1 to #5. A level 1 champion would know all abilities in all paths.

A champion can prepare a number of abilities from a given path equal to her associated ability modifier for that path. I.e. a Champion with Strength 24 could prepare 7 abilities from Tribal Warrior and 7 abilities from Slayer (both are associated with strength). A champion with 40 strength could prepare all abilities of both paths.

Abilities last for the encounter unless otherwise specified. Their saving throw DCs are 10+ 1/2 class level + associated ability modifier.

You can prepare an ability without the ability it is supposed to boost. In that case it just doesn't work. (like having tireless rage after having exhausted all rage uses or having Arcane Fire after having exhausted all your spell slots)





Yes, the whole thing is pretty rough because it has comparable number of different abilities to the core wizard spells in the PHB. I couldn't write down the extended versions of each and every single ability so I wrote a reference table like the spells-by-class tables in the PHB.

Amechra
2013-03-13, 08:20 AM
It may not be a 3.5 term, but it is a Pathfinder one. Basically (and I might be oversimplifying here) fighter bonus feats.

I know that much.

However, you could easily just replace it with "they can learn any Fighter Bonus Feat, Weapon Style Feat, or Tactical Feat by watching" or something to that effect.

Also... so, where are the points where it says what level each ability is? Or, you know, where the table says you have access to the ability (the table is so people can glance up while building. It is an important thing, and should have as much information as is feasible.)

Belial_the_Leveler
2013-03-13, 08:49 AM
OK, fixing the "abilities" entry to be more helpful.

Yakk
2013-03-15, 09:31 AM
Overall comments: your static bonuses are overly boring. Replace them with something interesting.

There are lots of caster-inspired "swap out" type stuff. Make the preparation less like "reading a book", and more like "shifting your footwork".

Weapon Defense: Pretty corner case. I'd propose a Parry subsystem instead -- more active and interesting.

Bonus Feats: I'd have a "Bonus Feats Known" list, like a wizards "spells known". The Champion would gain 2 "Bonus Feats Known" per level, and can learn additional ones like a wizard learns new spells (by training, research or "finding it as treasure" -- defeating a worthy foe in a deadly battle who used it on the Champion).

You then have a certain number of "Bonus Feat Slots". The 10 minutes of concentration is unnessicary -- make it a standard action to adjust your stance to replace 1 feat with another. This makes it possible to do in combat, but costly (a standard action is a huge cost in combat!)

At later levels, the cost to swap out a feat could be reduced to a move or swift action.

Weapon Training: Static bonuses are nice and all, but relatively boring. Can easily cause inflation. I'd go for something less "bonus to d20 roll" esque: "Roll twice and take better result", extra attacks, deal 2[W] damage -- these are more interesting than +1 every 4 levels to your attack roll.

Armor Training: Instead of ignoring speed reduction, I'd propose granting bonus movement speed. Plate should still slow you down compared to leather, but if you have a move speed of 60' that matters less. Same thing for armor check penalties -- why erase penalties, why not just grant bonuses? It takes about the same number of words.

Replace Armor Training with Physical Mastery or whatever, which grants a bit of fast movement and bonuses to many physical skills. Now wearing Plate still makes you worse at sneaking around compared to being in cloth, but your ability to sneak in Plate ends up being *the same* as it was under your system.

Champion Abilities: "Passive abilities need 8 hours of rest to be prepared" -- very caster inspired. I'd find a better method. "Stamina" is not an ability score.

Would any of these abilities be overly powerful if it took a standard action to swap one out for another?

"The Champion knows all Champion abilities of her level or less" -- while this does look generous, it is actually limiting. It makes adding new Champion abilities difficult, and makes Champions more similar to each other than they have to be. Why make the Champion a "fixed list" caster when you don't have to?

The Champion could instead learn a certain number of abilities "for free" as they level up, and have the ability to learn additional ones via training, research, practice or sometimes even learning from defeating foes with similar abilities.

Now, instead of putting abilities into paths, each ability has a list of associated ability scores and a level. If an ability is Int or Wis, this means there are two variations of the ability, one that is Int based the other is Wis based.

---

CR based DCs: I'd replace these with HD based abilities. In my opinion, HD is somewhat observable in game world, and CR shouldn't be. Just make sure you can get enough bonuses to roll successfully against an even-CR dragon.

Masteries:

"Deny Fate: 1/day per 10 class levels" -- pointlessly wordy. 1/day (2/day at level 20).

"Masteries require a score of 30 in the relevant ability modifier" -- relatively pointless restriction. If the class granted bonuses to attributes, it would be more practical -- but in a game without stat-bonus books and wishes, this class should still work.

---

"It won't have out-of-conflict abilities except for the morale bonuses"

A champion should be more than just a front line fighter.

---

"Save-or-Lose? You have to hope for a natural 1 in most cases"

You should throw in some systems to force and allow rerolls.

---

An approach that might help would be to add phase changes to the class.

Suppose 4 phases.

Champion -- Adventurer phase (1-5).
Champion -- Hero phase (6-10).
Champion -- Paragon phase (11-15).
Champion -- Legendary phase (16-20).

In each phase, introduce new choices and subsystems.

Adventurer phase introduce the bonus feat subsystem. As noted, martial weapon proficiency, bonus feats, and the like are reasonably strong here. Maybe include the start of out-of-combat physical mastery.

At Hero phase, introduce your Champion Ability subsystem, and maybe a Weapon Mastery system.

At Paragon phase, introduce a Destiny subsystem, where fate itself is bending to your will as you move towards your Destiny.

At Legendary phase, introduce a subsystem that reaches Solar exalted level of ridiculousness.

In each phase, abilities can become increasingly supernatural, and you continue to gain the abilities of the previous phase and get better ones.

This is similar to the idea of making a 10-level mundane class that PrCs into various pseudo-supernatural 10-level PrCs. At level 10 Fighter, you are the best mundane fighter that can exist -- the next level might be in "Chosen of a God" or "Dragon blooded", or "Reborn hero of legend".

But instead of tossing that off into a PrC, you roll it into the class. With such additional "power sources", you can explain how you can do things that are more than merely mundane.

kestrel404
2013-03-15, 10:25 AM
Well now, this is interesting.

You mention high-tier in your thread title, so I assume it's one of your goals to make this class tier 1-2? If so, you fall unfortunately short of that goal. The class is built to be powerful and flexible, yes, but only in combat.

The definition of a tier 1 class is that they have 'multiple possible solutions to any problem they are presented with'. This class has exactly one solution to any problem: combat. You can choose your flavor of combat, but you cannot mentally dominate, plane-shift or even use divinations to bypass entire encounters without the use of magic items & UMD.

Tier 2 is also out of reach, because you cannot 'solve any problem by yourself'. You cannot use political intrigue any better than a rogue. You're not equipped to handle an archmage lich who's immune to everything but sonic damage.

Tier 3 is highly questionable, as in several of the problems outlined above, you couldn't be of any more use than a high level commoner. The definition of tier 3 is to be capable of contributing to ANY situation. The only caveat I have to this is that because Martial Training and Martial Stance are fighter feats, you can effectively have access to ALL martial maneuvers if you can somehow get your initiator level high enough to qualify for them. Since there's no built in methodology for this, you are instead limited to 5th level maneuvers so I'm going to say 'probably not'.

Which puts this class in Tier 4. Very high powered tier 4, but still not tier 1-2.

How do you go about fixing that? Well, for starters, more class skills would be good. You give 6+int skills to a class that may or may not have a high int, and only 11 class skills? And you don't specify which kind of knowledge - do you mean all knowledge skill individually? That would at least exand what you can spend those skill points on, but the list is still kind of short.

Next, grant access to all combat maneuver schools, with 1 maneuver from each school for free at 1st level (with one maneuver readied) and a simple refresh mechanic (swift action for any 1?). No progression, no stances, but the class gets full initiator progression. With the bonus feats, you can qualify for Martial Study and Martial Stance and pick up any maneuver or stance you desire as soon as they become available. This by itself bumps the class up to solid tier 3. Throw in a few of the homebrew martial schools and that can easily be set to tier 1-2.

Lastly, some stuff you can do out of combat would be nice. You'll note that a lot of the ToB maneuvers give you abilities that aren't just in-combat abilities (Iron Heart Surge, the mountain lockpick, half of the Shadow Hand maneuvers). While your Champion abilities are not all specifically for use in combat, they are almost all useful only FOR combat - the one notable exception that cannot be duplicated by a feat is the Tactics ability that lets you take control of minions away from someone. THAT is a unique and interesting ability. It has potential in all sorts of situations. More stuff like that and you'd be a definite tier 3. To that end, I suggest looking at my homebrew class the Nihilist, specifically his Fallacies class feature, and stealing a few for a couple of additional 'non-combat oriented' lists of champion abilities.

Overall, great class. I like that ideas behind the bonus feats, especially since you're going for a high-tier class.

Powerdork
2013-03-15, 12:28 PM
However, you could easily just replace it with "they can learn any Fighter Bonus Feat, Weapon Style Feat, or Tactical Feat by watching" or something to that effect.

Let me point you to the skills.


Class Skills: The Champion's class-skills are Acrobatics (Dex), Athletics (Str), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Perception (Wis), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Sense motive (Wis), Survival (Wis) and Knowledge (Int).

This is intended for Pathfinder, you seem to have gathered this much, and it appears to me you're suggesting it should be labelled for 3.5?

Amechra
2013-03-15, 12:31 PM
I did not gather as much; it isn't labelled Pathfinder, so I didn't assume it was for Pathfinder.

I find that most of the homebrew on these boards tends to be for 3.5 unless otherwise specified, so...

Mea culpa.