[PF] Survival skill - untrained check issue.

[HatleyD]

Greetings. I'd like to get community's opinion on a gaming issue. Here is a situation: my character, who does not have Survival skill trained, is in the forest. He is trying to provision himself by making an untrained Survival check (DC 10 for sustaining oneself), and I roll 18, with no bonuses.

DM ruled that I found food all right, but due to me being untrained, I did not find "good" food, so now I'm required to roll Fort. saves against poisoning/disease.

Now, I know Rule 1. Still, this does not seem right. While the skill does not specify that you find "good" food, isn't the intent of the passed check to be successful at whatever you are doing? Is it correct to penalize a successful untrained check for being untrained? What is your opinion?

P.S. Edited for grammar.

[Bhaakon]

Seems ridiculous to me. I could see that result if you rolled a 1 and the DM was using skill fumbles, but you're allowed to that check untrained, so a success should be a success, end of story.

[Alefiend]

The GM is clearly in the wrong. However, what's done is done. I advise working together to come up with something that allows the previous ruling to stand, but provides something to you in compensation.

Here's an example: The food items you scrounged are safely edible when cooked a certain way (perhaps boiled), but you have been eating them raw, or spit-roasting them, or whatever. With this knowledge, you can now eat them safely. In addition, the brief bout of poisoning you suffered has the side effect of making you temporarily immune (or maybe just more resistant) to other poisons and/or diseases you might encounter in that forest. Alternately, the poisoning could also make you smell unappealing to local predators and thus not have to worry about being ganked by wild animals.

[Squirrel_Dude]

Calmly ask the DM if these untrained penalties will apply to other skills, or skill checks in the future, and why you weren't informed of them at the start of the game. That's all. If he says there will be applied to other skills as well, ask him what kinds of risks might occur with those skills for making those checks untrained.

I wouldn't try to change his future on these things unless he believes that he is backed up by the rules in the book. If he is simply mistaken him on the issue, just show him in the text that he is so. It's probably better to work with the DM to make sure that you understand how he is going to enforce the rule.

[HatleyD]

Roger, copy all.

Another issue I'd like to hear thoughts on: my character got in a fight, and suffered 6 points of damage. After the fight, as I was trecking into the forest, DM asked me to do a Heal check to stop the bleeding. Well, incidentally, it is also an untrained Wisdom check for my character. I think I passed, although I'm not quite sure. No immediate negative results were given.

On one hand, the Heal check in this situation kinda makes sense. I'm wounded, I need to bandage wounds... on the other hand, I'm unable to locate any rules that actually support this kind of roll. Being wounded in combat strikes me as a rather... common occurence in D&D. I think this will happen in the future.

I'm just not quite sure how to react to the shift in skill application and importance. I'd probably been fine with it, should DM have announced the changes well in advance, and let us prep for them. However, that was not the case. Naturally, I can only speak for myself, but I planned my character based on the rules presented in the books. How would you handle situation like that?

Issue three: that fight I mentioned above was with 4 stock bugbears. My character is working solo (not by choise) and is level 2. Due to some luck with rolls and judicious application of Color Spray, I was able to kill one bugbear, incap another and convince the other two that I should probably leave in relative peace. Later on in the day my character got set upon by a boar, who I also was able to fight off. Still solo. Now, by my count that is 600 xp * 5, for 5 CR2 creatures. DM's reaction - "Yeah, you are not going to get a level just for that. Those experience rules are just suggestions."

Once again, I know Rule 1. But at this point I'm getting convinced that DM is taking too much liberty with the rules. Considering an advertised sandbox game, I'm not sure I like it. What is a good way to handle that, in your opinion?

[Greenish]

Talk to him. Explain that you'd like to know the rules of the game you're playing, preferably in advance, and you'd prefer them to be constant.

[Bhaakon]

Another issue I'd like to hear thoughts on: my character got in a fight, and suffered 6 points of damage. After the fight, as I was trecking into the forest, DM asked me to do a Heal check to stop the bleeding. Well, incidentally, it is also an untrained Wisdom check for my character. I think I passed, although I'm not quite sure. No immediate negative results were given.

Did he say "make this heal check or take damage for bleeding" or did he just as for the check? The former is certainly not kosher, IMO, but I can think of perfectly reasonable reasons that he'd ask you to make the check (for instance: there's an predator nearby with the scent ability, and it's likely to track you down and attack if you're leaving a trail of blood).

[Squirrel_Dude]

Talk to him. Explain that you'd like to know the rules of the game you're playing, preferably in advance, and you'd prefer them to be constant.That's pretty much all there is to say on the issue. A DM can make whatever rules he wants, if he can convince the players to come on board, and he tells them at the start of the game.

He hasn't seem to have fulfilled the second two clauses. Talk to him, and see if you can work it out. I also hope you won't have to keep going solo.

Props on defeating 4 bugbears.