PLEASE help, half-blue dragon Thri-kreen

[Drackstin]

i am having really hard time making this char work, but i really want to make/use for story and quest line.

my idea for this char is kinda base on a digimon, kabutarimon (a creepy looking humanoid beetle with lightning powers)

what i have come up with so far is this

feral Thri-kreen insectile half-blue dragon. (this is to get the look and ability i was looking for. but i would like some feedback on other ways i can obtain this.)

the background of him at this point is that a nomadic feral Thri-kreen tribe became dominate in a desert area (TBD) and one Family that Mutated was granted leadership (as the yuan-ti do). a blue dragon in the area (age TBD) decided it wanted to use this royal bloodline to make an offspring that he could raise and make great use of, parenting it to believe all other races are below he great strength and power. and other underlining reasons.

this char has 3 templates atm and uses a monster race with a ECL, although the bounces are good, it would start at a lvl 11, with only 2HD, i still don't know what class to pick for him, but i am leaning heavily to a class that the parent blue dragon would "suggest" him train in. also i haven't rolled the stats but ill show you what he gets so i can get some help. i need to really do something about his low HP also.

stats without rolled base
STR +14, DEX +6, CON +4, INT -6, WIS +6, CHA -2
SPEED 50 land/clime, FORT +0, REFLEX +3, WILL +3, +12 NATURAL ARMOR
BA +2, ATTACKS 4, 1D8 CLAWS, 1 1D6 BITE
Special Attacks: Improved Grab (Ex), Darkvision 60 ft, low-light vision, fast healing 2 (Ex), Tremorsense (Ex), Wide Vision (Ex), Breath Weapon (blue) 6d8 lightning 60ft line 1/day, Poison (Ex), Leap (Ex), Weapon Familiarity, Psi-like Abilitys "3/day chameleon, know direction. 1/day psionic displacement, metaphysical claw" manifest level 1/2 HD, immunity electricity, sleep, paralyze, charm, dominate.
Skill points 6+Int mod x 5
Feats: deflect arrow +4 feats.

i hope i can get some info on a class to use and how to solve his disadvantages.

[Pesimismrocks]

It seems problamatic. Normally I would suggest cleric of Bahumet that was combatatic and used divine power. However with high LA like that a combat class seems more appropriate.

It would seem a monk would be ideal with those stats. However due to the sheer stupidity of playing such a weak character I would suggest an unarmed swordsage. I believe there is a variant although I'm not sure.

Playing a high template character is always difficult. You will be far weaker then other character so a high CON isneeded just to keep up. I would also suggest a CHA dumpstat as everything else is needed. Skills, BaB and HP are always important and without these yur charcter will be far too weak.

[Drackstin]

after looking, i don't really like the monk, and the swordsage doesn't really look like it would fit/work well, a class with full BAB might be better, favored class for the race in ranger, and for half-dragon is fighter.

changing the build also works but i don't know what i could use, i have looked in MM1-4

i was also thinking about taking the 3 lvls of half-dragon paragon

since the parent (blue dragon) is watching over him, he also has an abundance of resources at his disposable, so any items and or maybe grafts will help.

im thinking about starting him at lvl 15 so it might give a little room to play with, and any suggestions on swapping of changing the build will help.

[Deadline]

I'd suggest dropping Feral (a horribly borked template) and Insectile and just go with a Half-Dragon Thrikreen (Which is already a half-dragon bug).

Alternatively, go with a Thrikreen Ranger 4/Spontaneous arcane casting class 1/Dragon Disciple 10. You get hit dice, BAB, and the Half-Dragon template.

Why, specifically, do you need the Feral and Insectile templates?

[Grod_The_Giant]

Dragon Shaman (PHB 2) or Dragonfire Adept (Dragon Magic) are both at least decent dragon-themed classes that eventually can you the same kind of bonuses as being a half-dragon. The Dragonborn of Bahamut template from Races of the Dragon can grant you either a breath weapon or wings; feats from the same book can later grant you wings.

[Drackstin]

well i was going for both of those templates to add a little more rarity to the bloodline, giving the dragon reason for taking him, not just oh i am making a half-dragon. and those templates add a lot for a little.

the insectile template could be droped since he is a bug anyway, but the feral adds his high HD gives his claws a d8 from a d4 and some nice stats. but overall its for the total added bonus from both.

i do like the flow of the overall build but it just feels weak even if i start at 15

[Drackstin]

Dragon Shaman (PHB 2) or Dragonfire Adept (Dragon Magic) are both at least decent dragon-themed classes that eventually can you the same kind of bonuses as being a half-dragon. The Dragonborn of Bahamut template from Races of the Dragon can grant you either a breath weapon or wings; feats from the same book can later grant you wings.

honestly its not really about being a dragon, more like being able to use lightning, and a blue dragon is lawfull evil, so that trows dragon born out

if i could find a template or a playable monster/race that has inherent lightning ability that would work too

[LTwerewolf]

Factotum and/or OA samurai/iaijutsu master. With four arms and four gnomish quickblades you can be pretty nasty.

[Drackstin]

Factotum and/or OA samurai/iaijutsu master. With four arms and four gnomish quickblades you can be pretty nasty.

what are the stats and ability of the quickblade, or the book?

[Drackstin]

Factotum and/or OA samurai/iaijutsu master. With four arms and four gnomish quickblades you can be pretty nasty.

after checking out the samurai/iaijustsu master, i see no point in taking ether of those, if i would want to use quickblades, just a plane fighter would benefit more

[LTwerewolf]

after checking out the samurai/iaijustsu master, i see no point in taking ether of those, if i would want to use quickblades, just a plane fighter would benefit more

Iaijutsu skill is why you take them. Check it out.

Quickblade- Races of Stone page 154

Iaijutsu- Oriental Adventures page 58

[Menzath]

I almost think that a dumbed down umberhulk w/o the gaze attack, as a totemist or one of those other incarnum classes would achieve your goal a whole lot better than all the crazy templates you are trying to do.

[Drackstin]

Iaijutsu skill is why you take them. Check it out.

Iaijutsu- Oriental Adventures page 58

i seem to only have the 3.0 of oriental adventures, that make all its skills for a katana.

[Drackstin]

I almost think that a dumbed down umberhulk w/o the gaze attack, as a totemist or one of those other incarnum classes would achieve your goal a whole lot better than all the crazy templates you are trying to do.

even at ECL 8 with umber hulk i wouldnt get near what im looking for and incarnum is not really used in my games.

[Flickerdart]

i seem to only have the 3.0 of oriental adventures, that make all its skills for a katana.
Iaijutsu Focus is usable with any melee weapon, not just a katana.

[nedz]

Why not just take levels in Sorcerer (or certain divine classes) and take electrical spells ? This will give you far more flexibility.

[Drackstin]

Iaijutsu Focus is usable with any melee weapon, not just a katana.

well like i said, i think i have the 3.0 book, so both sam and iaijutsu can only use katanas.

but if the 3.5 updates them to any weapon it would work alot better

also i am having a little trouble understanding the quickblade, if i use the thri-kreens 4 claws and bite, do i also get 4 quickblade attacks? and what kind of attacks do they count as, do they incur penalties?

[Drackstin]

Why not just take levels in Sorcerer (or certain divine classes) and take electrical spells ? This will give you far more flexibility.

that would take the ECL down a lot, but i am also going for a look, if i could find a giant, humanoid, or monstrous humanoid that has electrical ability or adds electric to its attack, i could skip a lot of this, i have seen the storm giant, but it doesn't give a lvl breakdown so i could split it up.

[LTwerewolf]

Check: If you attack a flat-footed opponent immediately
after drawing a melee weapon, you can deal extra damage,
based on the result ofan Iaijutsu Focus check. In addition, if
you and your opponent both agree to participate in a formal iaijutsu
duel, your Iaijutsu Focus check replaces your initiative
check for the ensuing combat.


Nothing part of the skill says it must be used with a katana.

[Drackstin]

Check: If you attack a flat-footed opponent immediately
after drawing a melee weapon, you can deal extra damage,
based on the result ofan Iaijutsu Focus check. In addition, if
you and your opponent both agree to participate in a formal iaijutsu
duel, your Iaijutsu Focus check replaces your initiative
check for the ensuing combat.


Nothing part of the skill says it must be used with a katana.

that is the skill check, if i wanted to i could add that skill to my list and use it without taking any class. but the abilitys the class inijutsu master uses only uses katanas, at least in my book.

[Grod_The_Giant]

that would take the ECL down a lot, but i am also going for a look, if i could find a giant, humanoid, or monstrous humanoid that has electrical ability or adds electric to its attack, i could skip a lot of this, i have seen the storm giant, but it doesn't give a lvl breakdown so i could split it up.
Modify a warlock slightly? Turn the Fiendish Flamewrath ACF from the PHB2 into electric damage; and turn, say, Hellrime Blast into "Thunderhead Blast" (dealing electric damage; with the Dex penalty being fluffed as due to continuing twitches and spasms.) Or you could make a new Lesser Invocation adding the effects of the Orb of Electricity spell (Fort save or be entangled for one round). Take one of those and the Eldrich Chain invocation and blammo! You're throwing chain lightning around. Use Heinous Blow, Eldrich Glaive, or Eldrich Claws to add the damage to your melee attacks.

[Drackstin]

Modify a warlock slightly? Turn the Fiendish Flamewrath ACF from the PHB2 into electric damage; and turn, say, Hellrime Blast into "Thunderhead Blast" (dealing electric damage; with the Dex penalty being fluffed as due to continuing twitches and spasms.) Or you could make a new Lesser Invocation adding the effects of the Orb of Electricity spell (Fort save or be entangled for one round). Take one of those and the Eldrich Chain invocation and blammo! You're throwing chain lightning around. Use Heinous Blow, Eldrich Glaive, or Eldrich Claws to add the damage to your melee attacks.

ill have to check those out, could you list the sources for me of those?

also maybe i could just create a new monster that dose what i need, how would i go about that?

[LTwerewolf]

You take samurai/factotum/IM to make it a class skill. Also with the master, you gain a few bonuses with the katana, but some of the better abilities (such as striking twice) don't specify anything about it.

[WhatBigTeeth]

Totemist with Girallon Arms and Behir Gorget seems like the easy way to have a lot of arms, shoot lightning, pounce around, and actually have a chance of surviving, instead of being a 2HD splat on somebody's windshield. Plus, it sounds like it would work with this fluff.

With LA buyoff, on-psionic Thri-Kreen, Diopsid or Dromite can be useful insect races that don't gimp the character.

[nedz]

Something like a Half-Arrowhawk ?
It would have to be home-brew.

MotP has a number of elemental creature templates, but no lightning. They're hideously over-rated though at LA +5 but would be easy to adapt.

Awakened Living Spell - Lightning Bolt is possible.

Kua-Toa can do lightning bolts co-operatively.

[Grod_The_Giant]

ill have to check those out, could you list the sources for me of those?
Warlock is a base class in Complete Arcane. Hellrime Blast, Eldrich Chain, and Hideous Blow are in the same book. Eldrich Glaive is I think in Complete Mage, and I believe Eldrich Claws is a feat from some Dragon Magazine. Orb of Electricity is in Complete Arcane, as well as the Spell Compendium. The Fiendish Flamewrath ACF is, as I mentioned, found in the Player's Handbook 2.

[Urpriest]

Psionics seems like the best way to do this. Dromites (Expanded Psionics Handbook) are insect-ish and can have electricity rays for only +1 LA. From there, one of the Psionic classes would give you more electricity powers. Alternatively, Diopsids (Dragon Compendium) have already been mentioned, and while they typically aren't psionic they can do well with Electrokineticist (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040625e), wielding two electricity-whips two-handed.

That said, I would carefully consider whether this idea makes sense. Kabutarimon is interesting because he is the sort of creature that exists in the Digimon world. The fact that he looks like an electric beetle-thing is irrelevant. Rather than picking an image and trying to fit an unrelated creature to it, why don't you look at what sorts of creatures exist in your DM's world and try to see if any of them seem interesting on their own merits?

[Drackstin]

That said, I would carefully consider whether this idea makes sense. Kabutarimon is interesting because he is the sort of creature that exists in the Digimon world. The fact that he looks like an electric beetle-thing is irrelevant. Rather than picking an image and trying to fit an unrelated creature to it, why don't you look at what sorts of creatures exist in your DM's world and try to see if any of them seem interesting on their own merits?

honestly i was trying to see if i could make a creature close to what he would be just using templates/races already in the game, without altering anything, but i m beginning to think i might have to homebrew something by taking a base monster or race and buy/sell abilitys. i am glad i am getting a lot of source help and ideas, i will also ask my DM about it, but we are in a campain in forgotten realms, no eberron, so its mostly normal monsters.

that being said, is there a list or site that has monster ability cost for making monsters, i know there are some rules to make monsters in the MM, so ill be going threw them, i think i might just take the thri-kreen and alter it.

[Grod_The_Giant]

There's always the shocker lizard. If you stack enough templates on the poor little thing...

[Urpriest]

honestly i was trying to see if i could make a creature close to what he would be just using templates/races already in the game, without altering anything, but i m beginning to think i might have to homebrew something by taking a base monster or race and buy/sell abilitys. i am glad i am getting a lot of source help and ideas, i will also ask my DM about it, but we are in a campain in forgotten realms, no eberron, so its mostly normal monsters.

that being said, is there a list or site that has monster ability cost for making monsters, i know there are some rules to make monsters in the MM, so ill be going threw them, i think i might just take the thri-kreen and alter it.

Making monsters is a pretty delicate art. The MM has rules for the chassis, but beyond that it's a matter of familiarity with PC capabilities, precedent, and overall design principles. My Monster Handbook (link in sig) can help you with the chassis information, but for the rest I'd recommend building up more homebrew experience before you tackle it. The homebrew forums on this site are generally pretty savvy, and should be helpful.

That said, if you're making this as a character rather than a new race for your DM's campaign setting it will work much better made out of character classes rather than as a homebrew monster. Having looked up the character, I think a Diopsid with levels in Electrokineticist or some other electricity-focused class is really quite close, while only saddling you with LA +1.

[nedz]

You could always modify the Cyrokineticist or Pyrokineticist PrCs. These normally do Cold and Fire respectively, so changing them into a different energy type should be easy enough. They are in Frostburn and XPH respectively. You can also find the latter in the SRD here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/pyrokineticist.htm).

[Drackstin]

ill have to do a lot of research on this then, but maybe i could make a monster that fits the description and a class that the race uses, or make that there HD count for class lvls of that class. not sure how that will work, but ill see what i can find, i know there are monsters that count for having caster lvls built in.

atm i am in collage so i don't have any of my books on hand, so ill have to look it up and see what i find

[Kuulvheysoon]

You could always modify the Cyrokineticist or Pyrokineticist PrCs. These normally do Cold and Fire respectively, so changing them into a different energy type should be easy enough. They are in Frostburn and XPH respectively. You can also find the latter in the SRD here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/prestigeClasses/pyrokineticist.htm).

Sadly, the (Frostburn) Cryokineticist is worse than the (XPH) Pyrokineticist.

Thankfully, WotC released a variant of the pyrokineticist (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040625e) that lets you pick your elemental energy type.

[Jigokuro]

Sadly, the (Frostburn) Cryokineticist is worse than the (XPH) Pyrokineticist.

Thankfully, WotC released a variant of the pyrokineticist (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040625e) that lets you pick your elemental energy type.

I enjoy the perfect serendipity of the image they used being a insectoid Electrokineticist.:smallbiggrin:

[nedz]

Yes, I'm not a fan of either, but it does fit the OP's requirement.

[JeminiZero]

that being said, is there a list or site that has monster ability cost for making monsters

Perhaps the homebrew link in my sig might be of interest? :smallbiggrin:

As far as lightning use goes, you could either go with Half-Dragon, or Elemental Savant: Lightning.

[Drackstin]

Perhaps the homebrew link in my sig might be of interest? :smallbiggrin:

As far as lightning use goes, you could either go with Half-Dragon, or Elemental Savant: Lightning.

the homebrew in your sig shows a class, helpfull, but was looking more for information on swaping/buying monster abilitys and how it effects HD and +LA

as far as templates go, in the OP i had a half-dragon, but the ECL was making too much of a drawback

i have to look up Elemental Savant: Lightning

[Drackstin]

As far as lightning use goes, you could either go with Half-Dragon, or Elemental Savant: Lightning.

after checking elemental savant, it only would give me abilitys to change my per existing spells, that would take going into a caster class and taking a feat, im trying to make them inherent abilitys, so im going to scourer all the monsters i can find that have electric abilitys and see how it affects their HD

[Drackstin]

if any, is there a list(or link) of all monsters by type, and all monster abilitys
other then the MM, were i can find everything in one place?

[JeminiZero]

the homebrew in your sig shows a class, helpfull, but was looking more for information on swaping/buying monster abilitys and how it effects HD and +LA

The (massive) homebrew is premised on swapping class features for monster abilities. In other words, rather than take Half-Dragon as a template, the class lets you gain Half-Dragon-like abilities as you level, like the Dragon Disciple.

In this case, when I was said "Half-Dragon and Elemental Savant: Lightning", I was referring to two options you can pick up within that class. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

[Drackstin]

The (massive) homebrew is premised on swapping class features for monster abilities. In other words, rather than take Half-Dragon as a template, the class lets you gain Half-Dragon-like abilities as you level, like the Dragon Disciple.

In this case, when I was said "Half-Dragon and Elemental Savant: Lightning", I was referring to two options you can pick up within that class. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

will those homebrew rulings work for swamping monster abilities with other monster abilities? as in do they have point costs?

[Razanir]

There's always the shocker lizard. If you stack enough templates on the poor little thing...

That... I might just make an awakened shocker lizard NPC. He'll be Sir Bearington's halfling servant

Also, people covered it pretty well. Dromite electrokineticist seems like the way to go. Or a Thri-Kreen if you insist on the extra arms

[JeminiZero]

will those homebrew rulings work for swamping monster abilities with other monster abilities? as in do they have point costs?

Hmm... Sadly, no. :smallfrown: Rather the aim of the class was to provide monster abilities to LA +0 characters in lieu of class features.

[Drackstin]

Hmm... Sadly, no. :smallfrown: Rather the aim of the class was to provide monster abilities to LA +0 characters in lieu of class features.

so i am kinda working on the other side of that then, swapping out abilities a monster with and ECL already

now i did find a ECL calculator
http://personal.nbnet.nb.ca/shadows/Handbook/ECLcalc.html
but its very generic, and i haven't been able to find a monster builder.

i have found a few spells that look good for spell-like abilities, but i would have to track down a monster with them already and strip it down to see what it adds to the LA, if at all.

what i am most likely going to do is create a thri-kreen variant, maybe sub-race and see how it works out

[mangosta71]

For thri-kreen, I like warblade with heavy focus in the Tiger Claw school to take advantage of that natural +30 to jump. You could splash in some psychic warrior for WIS-based buffs.

Yeah, not optimal, but it seems thematically appropriate.

Edit: Actually, in this case you're probably better off using swordsage for the WIS synergy since templates give you a huge INT hit.

[Drackstin]

after a bit of research i came up with this for a race, and a example monster

Dynastian (taken from the scientific name for rhinoceros beetle)
* +2 Str, +4 Dex, -4 Cha
* Monstrous Humanoid
* Medium
* Blindsence 60ft.
* Immunity to sleep
* Exoskeleton +3 Natural Armor
* Multiple Limbs: 4 arms
* Natural Attacks: 4 claws, 1 gore, 1 bite
* Static Charge(ex) on a charge or dive, your gore attack acts as though you had activated the feat "stunning fist"
* Flight(ex) average
* spell-like abilities: 3/d shocking grasp, orb of electricity, 1/d lightning bolt. your your HD(and class levels if any) are counted as spell level to determan damage on these abilities.
* Racial Hit Dice: two level of Monstrous humanoid, 2d8 HD, +2 BAB, Fort +0, Ref +3, Wil +3.
* Skills: 5x(2+int mod) class skills: Balance, Climb, Hide, Jump, Listen, Spot.
* Racial Feat: Hover(B) and a additional Feat for its First level in Monstrous humanoid.
* Racial weekness: Blind
* Automatic Languages: Common, Dynastian. Bonus Languages: Giant, Gnoll, Syldan, Thri-kreen, Drocanic.
* Favored Class: Fighter or Ranger
* LA+2

Dynastian
Medium-Size Monstrous Humanoid
Hit Dice: 2d8 (12 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: land 40 ft. Fly 40 feet (average)
AC: 15 (+2 Dex, +3 natural), touch 12, flat-footed 13
Attacks: 4 claws +3 melee, gore +1 melee and bite +1 melee, or weapon +3 melee and bite +1 melee
Damage: Claw 1d4+1, bite 1d6, Gore 1d6 plus static charge
Special Attacks: static charge, shocking grasp, orb of electricity, lightning bolt
Special Qualities: Blindsence 60 ft., immunity to sleep, flight
Saves: Fort +0, Ref +5, Will +4
Abilities: Str 12, Dex 15, Con 11, Int 11, Wis 10, Cha 7
Skills: Balance +3, Climb +3, Hide +4*, Jump +31,
Listen +3, Spot +3
Feats: Hover (B) Multiattack
Climate/Terrain: Jungle or wooded area
Organization: Solitary or pack (3-5)
Challenge Rating: 2
Treasure: None
Alignment: Usually chaotic neutral
Advancement: By character class


give me some input, i hope to hear from some people on this.

[Urpriest]

after checking elemental savant, it only would give me abilitys to change my per existing spells, that would take going into a caster class and taking a feat, im trying to make them inherent abilitys, so im going to scourer all the monsters i can find that have electric abilitys and see how it affects their HD

Why? These aren't monsters that commonly exist in your DM's world, otherwise you wouldn't be coming to us. Wouldn't it be more likely that the abilities come from class levels than that they are inherent?

[Drackstin]

Why? These aren't monsters that commonly exist in your DM's world, otherwise you wouldn't be coming to us. Wouldn't it be more likely that the abilities come from class levels than that they are inherent?

just as pisonic races have inherent abilities, and some monsters/races have unique traits, that way no matter what class it takes it would still have these traits. a drow doesn't need to take a class to get it's spell resistance, because it's who they are.

[Urpriest]

just as pisonic races have inherent abilities, and some monsters/races have unique traits, that way no matter what class it takes it would still have these traits. a drow doesn't need to take a class to get it's spell resistance, because it's who they are.

Yes, but Drow exist in your DM's setting, these guys don't. If they were a race in your setting, shouldn't your DM be statting them up?

[Drackstin]

Yes, but Drow exist in your DM's setting, these guys don't. If they were a race in your setting, shouldn't your DM be statting them up?

in the OP I said I was trying to make a char for story/quest purposes. this is for a game I am running. so I am the DM

[Urpriest]

in the OP I said I was trying to make a char for story/quest purposes. this is for a game I am running. so I am the DM

Ah I misunderstood.

But if you're making this as a DM, why were you asking about LA rather than CR? Are you expecting one of your players to play one?

[Drackstin]

Ah I misunderstood.

But if you're making this as a DM, why were you asking about LA rather than CR? Are you expecting one of your players to play one?

well being a user friendly DM yes, or just having it an option for my players, ans with my original idea I might be making a NPC for the group, and I don't want it being over powered or underpowered if those come up. also since it's kinda based on a playable raise I wanted the mechanics there.

by the way, do you have any opinions on what I came up with?

[Urpriest]

The format is a little weird, for example you don't need to specify that the +3 natural armor comes from an Exoskeleton. You mistakenly make your spell-like abilities have spell level based on HD, when it should be caster level. Also, you definitely need to spellcheck things before you show it to your players, but I assume this is just a rough sketch.

Is there any particular reason why Static Charge functions like Stunning Fist? It seems like it's just supposed to be an attack that stuns people.

All in all it feels a bit powerful for CR 2, but if you want to get a more detailed opinion you should probably post it in the homebrew forums.

[Drackstin]

The format is a little weird, for example you don't need to specify that the +3 natural armor comes from an Exoskeleton. You mistakenly make your spell-like abilities have spell level based on HD, when it should be caster level. Also, you definitely need to spellcheck things before you show it to your players, but I assume this is just a rough sketch.

Is there any particular reason why Static Charge functions like Stunning Fist? It seems like it's just supposed to be an attack that stuns people.

All in all it feels a bit powerful for CR 2, but if you want to get a more detailed opinion you should probably post it in the homebrew forums.

being that I haven't made bathing before, I didn't really know how to explain then, I was looking for a way to make the spell-like abilities get stronger, since 1d6 gets week very fast.
and yes it being a rough draft I added in "as stunning fist" just so I didn't have to put in the full description.

as for it being a CR2 most monsters I have seen have a CRAB under their HD, even the original race was only a CR1 I thought I was making it too high, but like I said, I'm new at this, and I have posted in it the homebrew

[Urpriest]

being that I haven't made bathing before, I didn't really know how to explain then, I was looking for a way to make the spell-like abilities get stronger, since 1d6 gets week very fast.
and yes it being a rough draft I added in "as stunning fist" just so I didn't have to put in the full description.

as for it being a CR2 most monsters I have seen have a CRAB under their HD, even the original race was only a CR1 I thought I was making it too high, but like I said, I'm new at this, and I have posted in it the homebrew

By any chance, are you typing this on a phone? Some of the spelling mistakes look auto-correct-ish :smallsmile:.

What you want is for the spell-like abilities to have caster level increase with HD, not spell level. I'm assuming that's just a mis-type though.

Are you going to make the DC based on wisdom, as stunning fist? If not, you really ought to calculate out the DC. And really, it would have been easier to just say that if it hits it stuns the enemy if they fail a DC (blah) save.

Most monsters do have CR under their HD, but not a lot of CR 2 monsters have access to 3rd level spells.

[nedz]

The homebrew guys are pretty good, there is even a small chance that they have something like this already.

[Drackstin]

The homebrew guys are pretty good, there is even a small chance that they have something like this already.

one guy looked at it and said I need to change it to ECL 8, but in the same line said I took the thri-kreen and lowered the ECL. so I'm not too sure, since I copied it lol

other then that he also said the blindsense 60ft was too strong, but with it being blind, and me just swapping out the darkvision 60ft (both normal monstrous humanoid traits) I though he would be still at a big disadvantage.

any thoughts or any monsters I can compare with?

[nedz]

Well you probably need more than 1 opinion.

Mine, for what it's worth:
2 HD and 6 attacks would be a little strong for CR2.
Flight adds quite a bit, because it invalidates lots of low level characters.
Orb 3/day plus Lightning bolt is quite strong.
Shocking Grasp isn't worth anything.
Oh and Blindsense 60' is a little high perhaps. This invalidates hiding — in part.

Basically it can


Fly around, zapping people with Orbs for 3 rounds.
Land and Lightning bolt them.
Use it's Melee to mop up.


I'd guess CR 5

Ed: Thri-Keen are CR 1 in MM2, but MM2 is notorious for under CRing monsters. I pitched at CR 5 because of the SLAs, oh and flight (Which isn't in MM2).

[Drackstin]

Well you probably need more than 1 opinion.

Mine, for what it's worth:
2 HD and 6 attacks would be a little strong for CR2.
Flight adds quite a bit, because it invalidates lots of low level characters.
Orb 3/day plus Lightning bolt is quite strong.
Shocking Grasp isn't worth anything.
Oh and Blindsense 60' is a little high perhaps. This invalidates hiding — in part.

Basically it can


Fly around, zapping people with Orbs for 3 rounds.
Land and Lightning bolt them.
Use it's Melee to mop up.


I'd guess CR 5

I like the input, and I was thinking about getting rid of the bite, but I didn't know of a monster that doesn't bite lol

would lesser orb solve this or do you have any other spells that would fit, also he is blind, so it must be within it's blindseanse to use anything.

how does CR affect LA if at all?

[nedz]

I'd forgotten that it was blind.
I think it really needs Blindsight 60' in order to use the lightning bolt effectively; also with just Blindsense the Orbs are going to have a 50% miss chance.

It reminds me a bit of the Destrachan (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/destrachan.htm).

Or possibly a Juvenile Arrowhawk (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/arrowhawk.htm).

I think it needs a missile attack which doesn't run out.
So lesser Orb at will ? Which would be 1d6 at CL 2, but I think 2d6 or 3d6 would be better.

The trouble with lightning bolt is that have to land to use it effectively, which would be a bad tactic. I'd consider dropping this.

Comparing this with the Arrowhawk.
You would have better melee, Blindsight.
Arrowhawk has slightly better flight, lots of immunities, more HD

I'd say CR 3 perhaps ?

I really don't know about the LA, because it depends upon the RHD.

[Drackstin]

I'd forgotten that it was blind.
I think it really needs Blindsight 60' in order to use the lightning bolt effectively; also with just Blindsense the Orbs are going to have a 50% miss chance.

It reminds me a bit of the Destrachan (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/destrachan.htm).

Or possibly a Juvenile Arrowhawk (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/arrowhawk.htm).

I think it needs a missile attack which doesn't run out.
So lesser Orb at will ? Which would be 1d6 at CL 2, but I think 2d6 or 3d6 would be better.

The trouble with lightning bolt is that have to land to use it effectively, which would be a bad tactic. I'd consider dropping this.

Comparing this with the Arrowhawk.
You would have better melee, Blindsight.
Arrowhawk has slightly better flight, lots of immunities, more HD

I'd say CR 3 perhaps ?

I really don't know about the LA, because it depends upon the RHD.

from what I read, blindseanse was better then blindvision. but I could be wrong.
to ensure that the LA didn't go up I used the bad flight for a medium-sized monster.
I didn't want to give it an at-will thinking it would be to strong, and since it's favored classes are melee, I thought the lightning bolt would be good.

balancing seems to be hard but I would like to play test it, but increasing the CR doesn't effect the ECL so that's good

[Drackstin]

Or possibly a Juvenile Arrowhawk (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/arrowhawk.htm).

I think it needs a missile attack which doesn't run out.
So lesser Orb at will ? Which would be 1d6 at CL 2, but I think 2d6 or 3d6 would be better.

The trouble with lightning bolt is that have to land to use it effectively, which would be a bad tactic. I'd consider dropping this.

Comparing this with the Arrowhawk.
You would have better melee, Blindsight.
Arrowhawk has slightly better flight, lots of immunities, more HD

I'd say CR 3 perhaps ?

I really don't know about the LA, because it depends upon the RHD.

after looking at the arrowhawk I believe it would be a ECL of 9 or 10, although monsters with no LA can't be playable characters, if it was that would be a level 4 character when everyone else would be level 11, that 16 hp wouldn't holdup much, that being said it has a lot of nice abilities, but it being a outsider make it easier to get them and a lot stronger, +10 dex is nice.

I need to fine a list of monstrous humanoids to compare with to be most effective. is there a site that compiles all monsters?

[Drackstin]

is there a book for 3.5 on dark sun, i found a 2.0 on it, it has about 10 variants to the thri-kreen, i wanted to see how they might have done it in 3.5