Flayforged or Warflayer? Help me with this please!

[gurgleflep]

Hello everybody, I've got a monster planned/statted for the most part, and I'm stuck between two names: Flayforged and Warflayer.
The idea behind this construct is basically that a mind flayer made it to look like its own kind (I intend on doing the same for dwarves, humans, elves, etc.). The particular illithid who had this made is a particularly slothful one and very much enjoys brains. The construct looks like a typical warforged but has "tentacles" on its face as a form of extraction aid. In its stomach it contains a fluid that will preserve up to five brains as long as needed (or until the fatty gets hungry, whichever comes first).


Also, I would like to give a big thanks to the following, for aiding me in the creation of this beast: Shining Wrath, Rethmar, and LordErebus12.
Shining Wrath came up with the storage unit, Rethmar came up with the preserving method, and LordErebus12 gave it some abilities.

Shining Wrath said this:
First - warforged in the books have several different appearances; standard, mithral, adamantine, Scout, et cetera. Then there's the Constructs. So you can have a warforged that looks like anything you want.

Second - warforged don't need to eat.

Third - Per second poiont, an illithid-shaped warforged wouldn't need to suck out brains for its own consumption. However, it is not beyond an intelligent race to include a reservoir within the warforged, give it a proboscis similar to that of a butterfly, and have it suck out brains. Then the brains could be regurgitated and consumed by an Illithid.

Fourth - you could leave the poor picked-on warforged out of this and just have specially bred brain-sucking giant butterflies.

Rethmar expanded Shining's idea:
Similar to what Shining Wrath said about the storage i guess.

I got a lot of imagery out of it. Maybe not a warforged necessarily, but a construct made by illithids.

It can extract brains (like the flayer) and then store them inside the chest cavity (hollow stomach), which could be filled with some kind of liquid to preserve the brains for long excursions.

It wouldn't really be based off of an existing construct, but you could certainly make something like that as the DM.

LordErebus12 combined all of the above into this (adding it to a normal warforged):
add 4 tentacle attacks.

Brain Storage (Su):
This Species of Warforged (dubbed Warflayer) has a storage compartment within its stomach, allowing up to 5 brains to fit within after extraction. Any brain matter within the storage is under a constant Gentle Repose effect and will remain fresh infinitely.

Improved Grab (Ex):
To use this ability, a Warflayer must hit a Small, Medium, or Large creature with its tentacle attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and attaches the tentacle to the opponent’s head. A Warflayer can grab a Huge or larger creature, but only if it can somehow reach the foe’s head.

If a Warflayer begins its turn with at least one tentacle attached, it can try to attach its remaining tentacles with a single grapple check. The opponent can escape with a single successful grapple check or an Escape Artist check, but the Warflayer gets a +2 circumstance bonus for every tentacle that was attached at the beginning of the opponent’s turn.

Extract (Ex):
A Warflayer that begins its turn with all four tentacles attached and that makes a successful grapple check automatically extracts the opponent’s brain, instantly killing that creature and stores it within its Brain Storage. This power is useless against constructs, elementals, oozes, plants, and undead. It is not instantly fatal to foes with multiple heads, such as ettins and hydras.

LA +3

If you've got any suggestions or ideas on how to expand upon this, help away! I'm always willing too take help from you lovely people!

[Fouredged Sword]

Flayforged Chargers would be scary. Flayforged scouts would be cool ambush monsters.

Consider allowing flayforged to be a 5 level PRC for warforged. Accessible at level 2 (requiring a mindflayer to make the modifications and being a psiforged)

+1 tentical attack per level except 5, and level 3 gets brain suck. At level 5 give them the stun cone attack.

But give it a good willsave and high resistance to mental control, like Iron will at 3rd level. Ilithids are foolish to make these creatures are they inevitably turn out too much trouble to control.

[gurgleflep]

Flayforged Chargers would be scary. Flayforged scouts would be cool ambush monsters.

Consider allowing flayforged to be a 5 level PRC for warforged. Accessible at level 2 (requiring a mindflayer to make the modifications and being a psiforged)

+1 tentical attack per level except 5, and level 3 gets brain suck. At level 5 give them the stun cone attack.

But give it a good willsave and high resistance to mental control, like Iron will at 3rd level. Ilithids are foolish to make these creatures are they inevitably turn out too much trouble to control.

Just to clarrify, PRC is Prestige Class, isn't it?
Hopefully I can set it up appropriately.

[KillianHawkeye]

I vote for Flayforged. A Warflayer could just be a badass mind flayer warrior.

[Shining Wrath]

First, you're welcome.
Second, I think Warflayer is more euphonious.

If I get to make suggestions - Braindrinker? Illithid Pantry? Ozzy Osborne?

[Shining Wrath]

Flayforged Chargers would be scary. Flayforged scouts would be cool ambush monsters.

Consider allowing flayforged to be a 5 level PRC for warforged. Accessible at level 2 (requiring a mindflayer to make the modifications and being a psiforged)

+1 tentical attack per level except 5, and level 3 gets brain suck. At level 5 give them the stun cone attack.

But give it a good willsave and high resistance to mental control, like Iron will at 3rd level. Ilithids are foolish to make these creatures are they inevitably turn out too much trouble to control.

Usually PrC are only accessible at ECL 5. Nit-pick aside, I can see communities of escaped flayforged raiding illithid communities to free their enslaved brethren - and the PC's get involved - and find themselves on the same side of a battle as the Lord of Blades.

[Drackstin]

warforged is my favorite race and i can say, although only some races can make warforged, most of the time a warforged is created in the image of the create, even if a warforged is made by a mindflyer or any abberition, it wouldnt gain anything from it, but i believe if you can add ability as if making a monster, but this would change the LA or ECL of the warforged all together. a warforged is a construct also so you could follow the rules for crafting a construct for adding abilitys and such, but i know how indepth this would get. take the warforged charger, or raptor into account, and see how their abilitys effect their HD and LA

[gurgleflep]

First, you're welcome.
Second, I think Warflayer is more euphonious.

If I get to make suggestions - Braindrinker? Illithid Pantry? Ozzy Osborne?

Warflayer is pretty pleasing to the ear.
The suggestion of Ozzy made me laugh for a good two and a half minutes (give or take a few seconds), it was unexpected to say the least.

[gurgleflep]

warforged is my favorite race and i can say, although only some races can make warforged, most of the time a warforged is created in the image of the create, even if a warforged is made by a mindflyer or any abberition, it wouldnt gain anything from it, but i believe if you can add ability as if making a monster, but this would change the LA or ECL of the warforged all together. a warforged is a construct also so you could follow the rules for crafting a construct for adding abilitys and such, but i know how indepth this would get. take the warforged charger, or raptor into account, and see how their abilitys effect their HD and LA

It's one of my favorites as well, that's one of the reasons I'm doing this. There's going to be a couple custom versions in-game, but this one I was having trouble with.
If it makes you feel any better, I've made my own custom world for this and a couple custom races (excluding this I've got a mini-taur (aided by the fine folks over at homebrew) and elf-orcs(done by myself)).

[Drackstin]

when i want to customize something i always look to in game sources already viable. so see if you can find anything that would help in books, i know there is a book just about abberitions, book of madness i believe. it should give you alot of info about converting or adding skills, or like how adding a thrall template to a creature affects it and what it adds, all that information should help alot, and like i said, a warforged can be made into just about anything, but its still a warforged. adding inherent abilitys would come from the crafter and affect the LA and ECL. but its all up to you, balance is always the key though.

[Gnorman]

Mined Flayer.

Because they're made of metal.

[Arcanist]

I vote for Flayforged. Why? Because they are forged by Mind Flayers of course! :smallbiggrin:

[gurgleflep]

Mined Flayer.

Because they're made of metal.

You sir, have made my day. :smallbiggrin:


I vote for Flayforged. Why? Because they are forged by Mind Flayers of course! :smallbiggrin:

This one seems to be in the lead of this whole poll-like thing.

[Fouredged Sword]

I also vote flayforged. The naming convention is already set with psiforged as the name for warforged with psionic body.

[Drackstin]

if you go by the MM i believe it would be names warforged flayer, but if you go by the ebbron books flayforged might work.

the first being a warforged was build for doing a task, like the warforged charger, its bigger stronger and made to charge threw battlements and create opening. being made with a set of skills. this may work, but this also makes the warforged have monster lvls or take a path for some time.

the second, is a base build that helps a warforged progress threw a area of skills. (i.e. psiforged) but if you think about it, mindflayers are psionic so a psiforged would work without altering it.

given you want it to not only have the look of a "flayer" but also have abilitys like one, the first option would fit better, the second option or "flayforged" doesn't fit entirely do to the fact (yes it was made to progress threw a area of mindflyer abilitys, and no because these would be monster lvl template added to the warforged itself, pushing back to the first)

best name based on all info and books, warforged flayer*

*add-on name at liberty to change

[dysprosium]

i agree that warforged flayer would be the more complete name.

if that name does not get the write in vote, then i would vote for flayforged.

[gurgleflep]

Okay, so now we've got the additional option of Warforged Flayer.

Total tally thus far:
Warforged Flayer: 2
Flayforged: 4
Warflayer: 1

If I'm here, I'll get the total for this tomorrow. If not, saturday.

[Fyermind]

I'd Make it a feat chain for warforged...

Flayforged
Prerequisite: Warforged level 1
gains a single tentacle attack that uses all four tentacles at once. deals 1d4 damage with improved grab. This tentacle may be used as a secondary attack. This feat must be taken at level 1. A flayforged may select Psiforged as it's third level feat.

Independent Tentacles
Prerequisite: Flayforged, BAB +6, warforged
It can attack separately with each of it's four tentacles as a full round action (no other attacks may be made as part of this action). It may still use them as a mass secondary attack.

Flayforged Extraction
Prerequisite: Flayforged, BAB +6, warforged, Independent Tentacles.
If at the beginning of it's turn all four of a flayforged's tentacles from the Independent tentacles feat are grappling a target, as a full round action it may extract the brain of the creature as if it were a Mind Flayer.

Flayforged pulse (Psionic)
Prerequisite: Flayforged, Psiforged, base will save +5, warforged
As a standard action a flayforged may spend a number of power points up to it's HD to create a stunning cone. The cone is 15' long + 5' per two power points spent (round down). All creatures within the cone must make a will save (DC 10 + 1/2 the power points spent (round up) + the flayforged's charisma modifier) or be stunned for 1d4 + 1/power point spent rounds.

This would make ilithid flavored warforged available from level 1. Their powers would kick in at higher levels, but wouldn't be terribly out of place in power. Flayforged Pulse basically requires that the flayforged also be a psionic character, so I might want to rework the limiting factor and scaling mechanism. The easiest way might be to lock the save DC at the maximum. The stun duration and range would be enough incentive I think to keep the power points spent. I do want it competitive with powers though. A number or rounds recharge or 1/encounter is another possibility, but seems less fun.

I also don't like it being charisma based, so I am considering making another feat that makes the save DC constitution based and lowers the power point cost by 2 (minimum 0).

[Gerrtt]

I like Flayforged between the two...but I like "Flayer-forged" even better for some reason.

Flayforged sounds more like a warforged made out of flayed skin to me, where as Flayer-forged sounds to me like a warforged made by a mindflayer.

[gurgleflep]

I'd Make it a feat chain for warforged...

Flayforged
Prerequisite: Warforged level 1
gains a single tentacle attack that uses all four tentacles at once. deals 1d4 damage with improved grab. This tentacle may be used as a secondary attack. This feat must be taken at level 1. A flayforged may select Psiforged as it's third level feat.

Independent Tentacles
Prerequisite: Flayforged, BAB +6, warforged
It can attack separately with each of it's four tentacles as a full round action (no other attacks may be made as part of this action). It may still use them as a mass secondary attack.

Flayforged Extraction
Prerequisite: Flayforged, BAB +6, warforged, Independent Tentacles.
If at the beginning of it's turn all four of a flayforged's tentacles from the Independent tentacles feat are grappling a target, as a full round action it may extract the brain of the creature as if it were a Mind Flayer.

Flayforged pulse (Psionic)
Prerequisite: Flayforged, Psiforged, base will save +5, warforged
As a standard action a flayforged may spend a number of power points up to it's HD to create a stunning cone. The cone is 15' long + 5' per two power points spent (round down). All creatures within the cone must make a will save (DC 10 + 1/2 the power points spent (round up) + the flayforged's charisma modifier) or be stunned for 1d4 + 1/power point spent rounds.

This would make ilithid flavored warforged available from level 1. Their powers would kick in at higher levels, but wouldn't be terribly out of place in power. Flayforged Pulse basically requires that the flayforged also be a psionic character, so I might want to rework the limiting factor and scaling mechanism. The easiest way might be to lock the save DC at the maximum. The stun duration and range would be enough incentive I think to keep the power points spent. I do want it competitive with powers though. A number or rounds recharge or 1/encounter is another possibility, but seems less fun.

I also don't like it being charisma based, so I am considering making another feat that makes the save DC constitution based and lowers the power point cost by 2 (minimum 0).

This is a magnificent idea! How long did it take you to think up all of this?


I like Flayforged between the two...but I like "Flayer-forged" even better for some reason.

Flayforged sounds more like a warforged made out of flayed skin to me, where as Flayer-forged sounds to me like a warforged made by a mindflayer.

Warforged made out of flayed skin... Welp, no sleep for me tonight!
Funny how two letters can make the thought of something appear/sound so completely different.

[Drackstin]

Warforged made out of flayed skin... Welp, no sleep for me tonight!
Funny how two letters can make the thought of something appear/sound so completely different.

funny thing about this, in a dungeon magazine, there is a section that gives tables for random generating warforged. a few options are square head, matted leather quilted leather body, killing people for no reason. I think it's #323, or close to it, the cover has 2 dragons fighting

[Steward]

Here's an idea -- a lot of variant mind flayers and creatures in mind flayer society have multiple names -- ones used by the aberrations themselves and ones used by others. They think of themselves as illithids, but other creatures call them "mind flayers". An mind flayer lich can be called an illithilich (which is kind of a pain to say) or an alhoon (which is much. more euphonious).

It could be that, in a campaign setting, the construct is called a warflayer by some and a flayforged (or warforged flayer) by others.

[gurgleflep]

funny thing about this, in a dungeon magazine, there is a section that gives tables for random generating warforged. a few options are square head, matted leather quilted leather body, killing people for no reason. I think it's #323, or close to it, the cover has 2 dragons fighting

Is it bad that this makes me think of Frankenstein's monster? I'll have to look for this magazine, `cause that's a cool idea.


Here's an idea -- a lot of variant mind flayers and creatures in mind flayer society have multiple names -- ones used by the aberrations themselves and ones used by others. They think of themselves as illithids, but other creatures call them "mind flayers". An mind flayer lich can be called an illithilich (which is kind of a pain to say) or an alhoon (which is much. more euphonious).

It could be that, in a campaign setting, the construct is called a warflayer by some and a flayforged (or warforged flayer) by others.

How come nobody thought of this sooner?!

[Keld Denar]

I'm a fan of Flayforged, myself.

[Gildedragon]

I vote for flayer-forged or thoon-forged as Gerrtt's comment strikes true with me:

Flayforged sounds like a flesh-golemy warforged... that or a (PC's of mine do not open the spoiler)psychopathic skin-harvesting/wearing Reforged...which could likely going in my campaign at some point... provided I can make it less nightmare fuel-y

Whereas warflayer sounds... well a de-fleshing machine comes to mind. -shudder- An epithet for the Lord of Blades perchance

Fyermind's progession of this illithidesque warforged is excellent.

wonder if (with a flaw) these warforged could be illithidesque-psiforged

[gurgleflep]

I vote for flayer-forged or thoon-forged as Gerrtt's comment strikes true with me:

Flayforged sounds like a flesh-golemy warforged... that or a (PC's of mine do not open the spoiler)psychopathic skin-harvesting/wearing Reforged...which could likely going in my campaign at some point... provided I can make it less nightmare fuel-y

Whereas warflayer sounds... well a de-fleshing machine comes to mind. -shudder- An epithet for the Lord of Blades perchance

Fyermind's progession of this illithidesque warforged is excellent.

wonder if (with a flaw) these warforged could be illithidesque-psiforged

I like the spoiler. :smallsmile:
I've seen a lot of you guys have mention psiforged. What book would I find these in?

[Gildedragon]

Magic of Eberron iirc
That or the Sarlona one I'd wager

[gurgleflep]

Magic of Eberron iirc
That or the Sarlona one I'd wager

Magic of Eberron I've heard of, Sarlona on the other hand, I have not. either way, thank you :smallsmile:

[Fyermind]

It looks like enough people like my Flayforged feats, so I should probably do them right. For starters I've been convinced that Flayerforged is a more appropriate name. Secondly I really want to fix the psionic side. These are designed with flaws in mind (thus the strict level based prerequisites so you can't grab early access to higher level effects)

Flayerforged
Some warforged we created by mindflayers as a reliable defender that would not be tempting to eat on a slow day. Some flayerforged warforged manage to escape or simply outlive their masters. NPC flayerforged are usually Lawful Evil.
Prerequisite: Warforged level 1
A flayerforged warforged gains a single tentacle attack that uses all four tentacles at once. The tentacle attack deals 1d4 damage plus half the flayerforged strength modifier and has improved grab. This tentacle may be used as a secondary attack.
Special: This feat must be taken at level 1. A flayerforged may select Psiforged as it's third level feat.

Independent Tentacles
You have mastered the act of attacking seperately with your tentacles.
Prerequisite: Flayerforged, BAB +6, Warforged
As a full round action a flayerforged may make four tentacle attacks. It may make no attacks other than tentacle attacks as part of this action, but it is treated as a full attack for the purpose of effects such as haste (which would allow one tentacle to be attacked with twice).
Note: The flayerforged can still make a single secondary tentacle attack as part of a full attack not using it's tentacle and can still use it's tentacles as it's only attack as a standard action.

Flayerforged Extraction
When holding a head in your mouth you can suck out it's brains. You can also store said brains for later use. Look at you go.
Prerequisite: Flayerforged, BAB +6, Warforged, Independent Tentacles.
If at the beginning of it's turn all four of a flayerforged's tentacles from the Independent tentacles feat are grappling a target, as a full round action it may make an opposed grapple check with it's target. If it succeeds, it extracts the brain of the creature as if it were a Mind Flayer. The brain is then stored within the flayerforged. It can be regurgitated as a full round action. A flayerforged can store up to five brains at a time in this manner.

Flayerforged Link (Psionic)
Mindflayers appreciate minions that communicate well. Silent communication over any distance works well for that.
Prerequisite: Flayerforged, Psiforged, Warforged, cha 13
Gains the psilike ability mindlink usable at will but with no more than one use active at any given time. The manifester level for this ability is one half the Flayerforged's hit dice. It is always treated as fully augmented.

Flayerforged Pulse (psionic)
You can issue a stunning blast similar to a mindflayers by expending your psionic focus.
Prerequisite: Flayerforged, Psiforged, base will save +5, warforged
As a standard action a flayerforged may expend its psionic focus to create a stunning cone. The cone is 15 feet long. All creatures within the cone must make a will save (DC 10 + 1/2 your HD + your charisma modifier) or be stunned for 1d4 rounds.

[mattie_p]

Fyermind, your feats are popular, but, for the sake of completeness, be aware you are making them better than the similar illithid heritage feats in Complete Psionic. (Yes, I am aware that book is anathema on this site, but it does exist.)

Psi-forged (or any warforged with levels in a psionic class) are technically eligible for the illithid heritage feat, and therefore the rest of the tree.

[Fyermind]

I'd forgotten to compare to those feats. Thank you. I will work on scaling down the power of the pulse. As for extraction, I am thinking of separating improved grab into another feat, but because they can't make other attacks as part of they attack action to get all the grapples I don't feel too bad about the lower feat tax. Good call on being able to take illithid heratige feats straight up too. I'd forgotten about that. Those feats are definitely a work in progress. I should have something more balanced (but still stronger than the illithid heratige line. That line is painful) fairly soon.

[gurgleflep]

Fyermind, you've been a great aid to this creation, and I thank you :smallbiggrin:

Also, I would like to advertise a template for Xuldarinar. As he states, it is just a rough draft, but it's actually quite helpful! Plug two different races stats into it and you can form a half-breed! Here it is! (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=276074) Remember to thank him, he spent a fair amount of time making it :smallsmile:

[mattie_p]

I'd forgotten to compare to those feats. Thank you. I will work on scaling down the power of the pulse. As for extraction, I am thinking of separating improved grab into another feat, but because they can't make other attacks as part of they attack action to get all the grapples I don't feel too bad about the lower feat tax. Good call on being able to take illithid heratige feats straight up too. I'd forgotten about that. Those feats are definitely a work in progress. I should have something more balanced (but still stronger than the illithid heratige line. That line is painful) fairly soon.

No problem. As far as how a warforged takes illithid heritage feats: a wizard a mindflayer sorcerer did it. But yes, that entire line is painful in the worst way. Yet another reason why Complete Psionic is anathema.