Duergar, Svirfneblin, Drow, etc. - Racial Help

[gurgleflep]

Would it be safe to change around these races special abilities and what-not so that their LA is a 0? I'm wanting to run an underdark campaign consisting of of the typical races but... well... their underdark versions. Elf to Drow, Dwarf to Duergar, Gnome to Svirfneblin, Orc to it's underdark equivalent...
I'd also like suggestions on the other races. I don't know one for Halfling, Human, Orc and what-not.

[Komatik]

Depending on level and tier, the character's class will overtake anyway. If everyone has LA'ed races, just ignore it?

[gurgleflep]

Depending on level and tier, the character's class will overtake anyway. If everyone has LA'ed races, just ignore it?

I've ignored the LA before, it wasn't the wisest thing I've done. the party consisted of a gulgar figher, an aquatic elf rogue, and a half-dragon dwarf dragon shaman, all of which got to be about level five... Gulgar was uber-strong and practically unable to be hit and the elf was horribly weak. No monsters worked out well.

[Darius Kane]

Instead of ignoring LA, just say "Guys, you have +2 LA gratis".

[gurgleflep]

Instead of ignoring LA, just say "Guys, you have +2 LA gratis".

Limit their allowed LA? Sounds reasonable. What of the svirfneblin though? They're a +3 IIRC.

[Namfuak]

I know there is a lesser drow variant here:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20040215a&page=2

It also gives suggestions for a blanket way to deal with LA, but they seem kind of harsh and you end up with a level-adjusted character anyway. One thing you could do would be to start out at a slightly higher level so they can get a class level in, and then use the UA buyoff rules (reducing level adjustment on the SRD).



Limit their allowed LA? Sounds reasonable. What of the svirfneblin though? They're a +3 IIRC.


You could make them off-limits, or give them an "adjusted" LA of 1.

[cosmicAstrogazr]

Well... For humans, the Forgotten Realms Underdark book has the Deep Imaskari, which are basically an underdark subrace of humans? That might work for those.

[SamBurke]

Limit their allowed LA? Sounds reasonable. What of the svirfneblin though? They're a +3 IIRC.

You could either remove some abilities, or use Unearthed Arcana's Buyoff option.

Or make it a bloodline. If you do, go summon the spirit of Welknair, and he'll help you. OR check out his bloodline guide. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11487854)

[gurgleflep]

I know there is a lesser drow variant here:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20040215a&page=2

It also gives suggestions for a blanket way to deal with LA, but they seem kind of harsh and you end up with a level-adjusted character anyway. One thing you could do would be to start out at a slightly higher level so they can get a class level in, and then use the UA buyoff rules (reducing level adjustment on the SRD).



You could make them off-limits, or give them an "adjusted" LA of 1.

That variant ought to come in handy, thank you. By "adjusted" do you mean just lower the number, or actually weaken it down so it's more suited for a LA 1? :smallsmile:


Well... For humans, the Forgotten Realms Underdark book has the Deep Imaskari, which are basically an underdark subrace of humans? That might work for those.

I've not heard of them, but as a group we have the book they're in. Thanks for the race :smallsmile:


You could either remove some abilities, or use Unearthed Arcana's Buyoff option.

Or make it a bloodline. If you do, go summon the spirit of Welknair, and he'll help you. OR check out his bloodline guide. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=11487854)

I'll have to read through the buyoff options when I'm near the books. As for the bloodline suggestion, I'll have to read through the post. Thank you :smallsmile:

[Namfuak]

That variant ought to come in handy, thank you. By "adjusted" do you mean just lower the number, or actually weaken it down so it's more suited for a LA 1? :smallsmile:

...

I'll have to read through the buyoff options when I'm near the books. As for the bloodline suggestion, I'll have to read through the post. Thank you :smallsmile:

I meant keep them the same and pretend they had an LA of 1. Even if you want to see the level adjustment reduction variant (buyoff) in the book to make a final decision, you can at least see what you are getting into on this page:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm

[Seharvepernfan]

Orcs can live anywhere, basically. There doesn't need to be an underdark version. But there is, in faerun. They're called Orogs. If you don't want to use those, just drop some of the mental ability penalties that orcs have, give them SR equal to a drow, give them a +2 on saves vs. magic, and increase their darkvision to 120ft.

Drop the AC bonus that svirfneblin have, make it only apply to giants. That'll make them basically +2.

You want my personal opinion? Ignore the LAs. Drow, duergar, and svirfneblin are a bit better, yeah, but not "a whole 'nother level in a class" better.

[gurgleflep]

I meant keep them the same and pretend they had an LA of 1. Even if you want to see the level adjustment reduction variant (buyoff) in the book to make a final decision, you can at least see what you are getting into on this page:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm

Ahh, okay. Thank you for the clarification :smallsmile:


Orcs can live anywhere, basically. There doesn't need to be an underdark version. But there is, in faerun. They're called Orogs. If you don't want to use those, just drop some of the mental ability penalties that orcs have, give them SR equal to a drow, give them a +2 on saves vs. magic, and increase their darkvision to 120ft.

Drop the AC bonus that svirfneblin have, make it only apply to giants. That'll make them basically +2.

You want my personal opinion? Ignore the LAs. Drow, duergar, and svirfneblin are a bit better, yeah, but not "a whole 'nother level in a class" better.

I've heard of the orog, but I thought it was a hybrid of ogre and orc. I like your personal opinion.

[Darius Kane]

Limit their allowed LA? Sounds reasonable. What of the svirfneblin though? They're a +3 IIRC.
No, not limit. Give 2 LA gratis. Most of the common PC races in Underdark have LA in the 1-3 range. If you give them 2 LA for free that means they can take those races and not lose levels. They can also take a standard race and apply a template. Or they can take a race with more than 2 LA (like the svirfneblin), but then they still have to pay its LA (-2) with class levels, but at least they'll lose less of them.

[gurgleflep]

No, not limit. Give 2 LA gratis. Most of the common PC races in Underdark have LA in the 1-3 range. If you give them 2 LA for free that means they can take those races and not lose levels. They can also take a standard race and apply a template. Or they can take a race with more than 2 LA (like the svirfneblin), but then they still have to pay its LA (-2) with class levels, but at least they'll lose less of them.

Oh, okay. I think I'll use this, thank you! :smallsmile:

[Greenish]

There's Deep template from Dragon Magazine #306 that can be applied to PHB races to make their underdark versions. It's LA +1, but since everyone else will be, too, it'll just help bring everyone on par.

[Daftendirekt]

Could use the savage progressions (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a).

[gurgleflep]

There's Deep template from Dragon Magazine #306 that can be applied to PHB races to make their underdark versions. It's LA +1, but since everyone else will be, too, it'll just help bring everyone on par.

Any idea as to where I can find said magazine?


Could use the savage progressions (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20040213a).

It makes classes out of their racial stuff so they can be played earlier? Sah-weet! Thank you!

[Greenish]

Any idea as to where I can find said magazine?Paizo sells the PDFs on their website. Alternatively, yarr.

[mattie_p]

Any idea as to where I can find said magazine?

A lot of local gaming shops have back-copies on hand. You should, you know, check them out and maybe support them.

[gurgleflep]

A lot of local gaming shops have back-copies on hand. You should, you know, check them out and maybe support them.

Wish I could, but unfortunately I've got no form of gaming or hobby shops in town. The nearest one is a half an hour drive away depending on traffic, and I've currently got no vehicle.

[mattie_p]

Car pool, public transportation, road trip with friends, convince your mom/dad/significant other that they need to go shopping at the clothes store 2 doors down while you tag along and slip out at first opportunity. You can do this.

(Well, maybe not, I don't really know where you are or your setup with friends/family. But if you can swing it, probably cheaper than getting the back issues directly from Paizo.)

[gurgleflep]

Car pool, public transportation, road trip with friends, convince your mom/dad/significant other that they need to go shopping at the clothes store 2 doors down while you tag along and slip out at first opportunity. You can do this.

(Well, maybe not, I don't really know where you are or your setup with friends/family. But if you can swing it, probably cheaper than getting the back issues directly from Paizo.)

I can easily get a friend or family member to take me, everybody's got jobs out in that direction. Thanks for the advice, by the way :smallsmile:

[Getsugaru]

Don't forget that Kobolds are underground too. Just make sure to not let them abuse Dragonwrought+Casting. :smallwink:

[gurgleflep]

Don't forget that Kobolds are underground too. Just make sure to not let them abuse Dragonwrought+Casting. :smallwink:

First off: Kobolds are awesome.
Secondly, not many people in the group use magic. About the only magic used is by the party cleric or paladin.