E6 Prestige classes as standard classes?

[Toy Killer]

I have a nifty idea that I want to work on. I'm running an E6 game, and even though I know blackguards are available at level 6, I realized that even if I let it be a standard class on it's own, it wouldn't be game changing. Looking at other prestige classes, with a few exceptions, would be seemingly fitting as well.

Now, things like the Theurge classes, Master of Shrouds and classes that grant spell like abilities of unavailable spells would probably have to be stopped, as well as Ur-Priest and Sublime cord for similar reasons. (Perhaps very specific Divine crusaders, but I don't know if their spell selection could warrant the ban hammer...)

Maybe if they were required to take the pre-req feats as before being allowed to make other choices? It just seems like with all the great prestige classes out there, to have a character be unable to differentiate themselves from another fighter or another cleric. It reminds me of the Path Finder Archtypes really.

Suggestions or concerns that I should address? I'll probably be making them NPCs in this game and test out the waters before I let it happen elsewhere.

Thank you for any input in advance!

[Magic Myrmidon]

I've never played E6, but I have used prestiges as NPCs' base classes, and it never seemed crazy or unbalanced. Obviously, some abilities have to be worked on (say, a 15 d6 area attack at level 7 or something), but they're usually easy to work with.

[Yora]

Most of the badly broken classes are so bad because how their class features interact with certain spells and feats. In the level range of E6, they should mostly not be any problem, at least not more than they would be as regular prestige classes on higher levels.

[Hylas]

Be careful with things like the Arcane Trickster or Mystic Theurge. An arcane trickster is probably flat out better than a rogue or a sorcerer and a mystic theurge would be quite better than any straight casting class.

Blackguards and assassins have 3rd level spells at level 6. A horizon walker would have dimension door every 1d4 rounds.

A lot of the balancing for prestige classes had to do with requiring ~6 levels to get into. So if everyone was a prestige class at the same time it should be okay, but if you have a group of a shadow dancer, a blackguard, a horizon walker, and a ranger, well, someone is going to look sillier than the rest.

[Toy Killer]

I never considered Horizon walker Dimension Door, but I did figure if people are able to straight take prestige classes, it will be more appealing then taking the standard classes.

For example, I could have a sixth level fighter... Or I could take a 6th level Invisible Blade or Darkwood Stalker or Purple Dragon Knight. No matter how it's sliced, the prestige classes are better, but more flavorful and with more intrinsic value to the design of the character behind it.

Even if Assassins get third level spells, it's no worse then, say Sorcerer spell progression. In fact, they have a smaller spell pool with more specific utilities behind them. While casters may be abandoned for their prestige class siblings, I don't see how it's unfitting that an Ice wizard wouldn't benefit from being a staight 6th level Frost Mage, not only mechanically but flavor-wise as well.

[WhatBigTeeth]

Sounds like something to address on a case-by-case basis, but Pious Templar, Assassin, and other typically half-casting classes sound like quite a bit of fun.

I think the most interesting class under this would be the Bereft, which, hilariously, doesn't look like it would step beyond the power level expected of a level 6 caster or ToB character.

[RFLS]

I'm going to assume that Ur-Priest and Sublime Chord are autobanned.

...right?

[Lonely Tylenol]

I would probably remove, outright, any prestige class that advances spellcasting level of an existing class from this, because how could it? It doesn't have a base class to advance, and picking base classes to assign to these seems wholly arbitrary.

If you want to go that route with classes with independent lists, though (such as the Assassin, Blackguard, Suel Arcanamach, or Pious Templar), or classes without spellcasting, then go for it--but be prepared to introduce caveats.

EDIT: For each of these, of course, be wary of spells at reduced levels on these lists. The Trapsmith, for example, gets third- through sixth-level spells in first- through third-level spell slots, netting them spells like Haste and the like at level 1. The most egregious example of this reduced availability (in E6) is Lesser Globe of Invulnerability--which flat-out negates all spells of first- through third-level--as a second-level spell. Of course, this is probably one of the outliers.

[Toy Killer]

I'm going to assume that Ur-Priest and Sublime Chord are autobanned.

...right?


Now, things like the Theurge classes, Master of Shrouds and classes that grant spell like abilities of unavailable spells would probably have to be stopped, as well as Ur-Priest and Sublime cord for similar reasons. (Perhaps very specific Divine crusaders, but I don't know if their spell selection could warrant the ban hammer...)


Already ahead of you. The first thing that came to mind was Theurge, then Incantrix (Which, suprisingly, doesn't seem as bad at E6...), and then the full progression spell list psuedo caster prestige classes.


I would probably remove, outright, any prestige class that advances spellcasting level of an existing class from this, because how could it? It doesn't have a base class to advance, and picking base classes to assign to these seems wholly arbitrary.

I would say pick a spell casting class at first level and apply it to that, I.E. a 4th level Frost Mage would be a 4th level wizard (Or Warmage, or Whatever). To simply eliminate the possibility greatly reduces the choices for casters, though the power level would definitely scale back a good bit.


EDIT: For each of these, of course, be wary of spells at reduced levels on these lists. The Trapsmith, for example, gets third- through sixth-level spells in first- through third-level spell slots, netting them spells like Haste and the like at level 1. The most egregious example of this reduced availability (in E6) is Lesser Globe of Invulnerability--which flat-out negates all spells of first- through third-level--as a second-level spell. Of course, this is probably one of the outliers.

Now, this I never thought about before...

[Lonely Tylenol]

I would say pick a spell casting class at first level and apply it to that, I.E. a 4th level Frost Mage would be a 4th level wizard (Or Warmage, or Whatever). To simply eliminate the possibility greatly reduces the choices for casters, though the power level would definitely scale back a good bit.

I would go so far as to say that not only do casters have more than enough choices on the basis of spell lists, but giving something like Incantatrix six levels of Wizard is a huge power bump: the Wizard trades Scribe Scroll, one metamagic feat, and their familiar (!) for two metamagic feats, the ability to apply metamagic to allied spellcasting, the ability to apply metamagic to ongoing spell effects, the ability to apply metamagic to spell trigger items... Hathrans (which otherwise don't exist in a 6-level build) can abuse Acorn of Far Travel in order to spontaneously cast all their spells. And those are just two classes listed next to each other in the same book; even among not strictly broken examples (such as the Sacred Exorcist), there are many classes which just completely supersede their base class equivalents by offering full casting, the relevant features of the base class (such as turn undead), and then other class features; suddenly, there's no reason to play a Cleric, because the base power level has shifted even further up.


Now, this I never thought about before...

Be wary, also, of the Chameleon, which can cast arcane or divine spells from basically any list, and six levels in, can cast fourth-level spells from either, with a caster level equal to twice its class level. With the Mimic Class Feature... Feature, a Combat Focused Chameleon is a better Fighter than a Fighter (floating feat), a better Barbarian than a Barbarian (rage 2/day) and a better Paladin than a Paladin (Smite), although if you're willing to forego the attack and damage roll bonus, you could just as easily do all these things with, once again, the best casting in the game.

Really... The more I think about it, the more I feel that this is the sort of thing that should be whitelisted, instead of blacklisted. (Prestige classes should be approved on a case-by-case basis, instead of banned on a case-by-case.)

[Feralventas]

I'm inclined to agree with Lonely Tylenol; if a player wants to use a prestige class as a base class, it is something that can certainly be considered, but shouldn't be approved or denied out of hand.

I've actually been doing exactly that with a game I've been running, as the base classes available didn't fit the mechanics/thematic I was going for, and the players were starting out and likely to remain at fairly low levels.

Currently in use, I've got a Master Spy (diminished sneak attack for stealth, deception and other thief skill boosts and features) and a Souldrinker (or is it soul eater? BOVD PrC that bestows negative levels on a touch.)

(Yes, I'm aware that the BoVD character isn't balanced at its level but there were circumstances and PC abilities kept in mind when I decided on using it, and if for some reason a player winds up trying to solo that particular encounter violently, I'll probably switch out for Fighter/PrC instead of just the PrC on its own.)

In the DMG alone
-3.5's Arcane Archer is mostly just an archer build with a magic weapon, and at 6th level they'll ignore barriers for 1 arrow/day.
-Arcane Trickster is probably better than a rogue or sorcerer/wizard, as it's both combined, but if you diminish the casting allowed to that of a Bard, Duskblade or Spellthief, it could work out quite nicely.
-Archmage is pretty clearly better than a sorc, though Wizard's two bonus feats might compare to the High Arcana options. Would not reccomend allowance.
-Assassin has been discussed.
-As has Blackguard.
-Dragon Disciple actually looks like a perfect example of a good E6 base option. The only concern would be the potency of Blindsense that it gets at 5th level, perhaps traded for Scent. There are a couple feats that could expand Scent out further and turn it into blindsense 20 effectively, but over all the DD works quite nicely.
-Dualist could work, though Rogue3/Swashbuckler3 would seem a better option for the same 6 level comparison.
-Dwarven Defender would be a great base class, granting a small amount of DR and plenty of defensive bonuses, full BAB to still be comparatively viable as something other than a 5ft square wall.
-Eldritch Knight is basically a full BAB caster with a d10HD; would not recommend as using anything more than 2/3's spellcasting (Bard or lesser, as Arcane Trickster)
-Hierophant seems to only work if you have class features or spells to share in the first place; not going to do well here.
-Horizon Walker looks fine; dimension door is useful and high-mobility for E6, but it's still going to mean you don't have any actions After using it, but it does lend itself to hit-and-run tactics, ambushes and such, unless you're allowing Pathfinder's Dimensional Agility feats on a 3.5 HWalker, at which point this is going to start breaking down into something deadly in a hurry; allow with caution.
-Loremaster is another caster with class features. As Eldritch Knight and Arcane Trickster, no full-casters.
-Mystic Thuerge; Adjust to require Caster Level 2 rather than 2nd level spells, get CL4 in two classes at 6th level, still potent but not as much as a full CL6 Bard, let alone a sorc or druid.
-Red Wizard, yet another caster with features, see above, etc.
-Shadow Dancer seems to be a decent stealth/mobility character with a supernatural bend to it. Risk of Shadow Undead Apocalypse if abused though, so talk to a player about this to avoid it or don't allow it.
-Thaumatergist. Caster. Class Features. I need an acronym for this.
Wait I'm done, no I don't.

[Toy Killer]

I guess what I see from my standpoint is that a casting class from 1-20 is different then a casting class from 1-E6.

If you can't progress past level 6, the character has to progress differently then the game is designed for.

In a standard 1-20 build, the character is just defining itself in time for a prestige class to be selected. In an E6 game, that puts much more emphasis on front heavy prestige classes, as the character isn't going to be able to take more then 1, maybe three levels with some cheese (In most cases).

story wise, yes, this can be fitting. (The ranger finally is accepted into the Assassin's guild.) But typically, it makes the character seem... bland until the final level.

While I'm a huge fan of not letting the class names get in the way of character generation; I'm not a huge fan of two identical character sheets promoting two completely different character concepts. Perhaps from a top optimization point of view, this spells trouble, but from a mid to low tier game it seems alright. The numbers spread so sparsely between one another in six levels that it's difficult to completely outshine the party entirely without especially designing a character to compete specifically to outshine one another.

I think if I limit it to classes that can be easily entered by level 5, with some notable exceptions and limit the cross breed prestige classes (Like EK and Arcane Trickster) to classes with their spell list known (But ultimately decided by the player), I can achieve general balance within the party, even if the standard classes are left behind.

[Lonely Tylenol]

I've actually been doing exactly that with a game I've been running, as the base classes available didn't fit the mechanics/thematic I was going for, and the players were starting out and likely to remain at fairly low levels.

Currently in use, I've got a Master Spy (diminished sneak attack for stealth, deception and other thief skill boosts and features) and a Souldrinker (or is it soul eater? BOVD PrC that bestows negative levels on a touch.)

Spymaster (CAd) and Soul Eater (BoVD)? I just whitelisted both of them. :smallwink:

(P.S. I am currently making a "whitelist"/"greylist"/"blacklist" list based on this principle, for submission and review, for precisely this reason. I've gotten through all SRD material, BoED, BoVD, Cityscape, and CAd so far. I figure it would be a good idea to crowdsource this idea, aye?)

Speaking of: I think I came to basically the same conclusions that you did, except that I greylisted the Assassin and Blackguard (they supersede the Rogue/Spellthief and Paladin, and their lists are supported, so DMs should think carefully about whether or not they want them in their game), as well as the Dragon Disciple (because of confusion on how the bonus spells would interact as a base class). Of course, I am blacklisting any class that advances existing spellcasting by default, so...

EDIT:


I guess what I see from my standpoint is that a casting class from 1-20 is different then a casting class from 1-E6.

If you can't progress past level 6, the character has to progress differently then the game is designed for.

In a standard 1-20 build, the character is just defining itself in time for a prestige class to be selected. In an E6 game, that puts much more emphasis on front heavy prestige classes, as the character isn't going to be able to take more then 1, maybe three levels with some cheese (In most cases).

story wise, yes, this can be fitting. (The ranger finally is accepted into the Assassin's guild.) But typically, it makes the character seem... bland until the final level.

While I'm a huge fan of not letting the class names get in the way of character generation; I'm not a huge fan of two identical character sheets promoting two completely different character concepts. Perhaps from a top optimization point of view, this spells trouble, but from a mid to low tier game it seems alright. The numbers spread so sparsely between one another in six levels that it's difficult to completely outshine the party entirely without especially designing a character to compete specifically to outshine one another.

I think if I limit it to classes that can be easily entered by level 5, with some notable exceptions and limit the cross breed prestige classes (Like EK and Arcane Trickster) to classes with their spell list known (But ultimately decided by the player), I can achieve general balance within the party, even if the standard classes are left behind.

I understand all of these concerns... And most of them are legitimate, at least for a good majority of play. The party I've been DMing for the last fifteen months under E6 rules has endured a lot of these problems, especially due to group size (the party has been consistently between about 10 and 12 party members for over a year now; currently it's at 9, with a waiting list of people trying to get in). At a certain point, you have to get creative to make sure every character feels truly original, since you're working mainly with base classes to begin with. This becomes especially difficult when you have that "original thinker" in the group who is specifically out to create cookie cutters of whatever the best optimizer (or at least the flashiest optimizer; see Batman vs. God) is doing. Prestige classes feel like dips that you build toward, and hardly representative of a major portion of the character's achievements.

At the same time, though, a Wizard/Cleric/Druid (and analogues) already have all the diversity they need--in their massive spell lists. And even at level 6 (or level 6 + 5 feats, and I'll let you know when the group lurches past 6 + 10 feats), they take that diversity and beat the rest of the group over the head with it as they damn well please. It's just less startling, because they're not Polymorphing the Rogues into Hydras or Planar Binding Efreeti or other, more egregious combos that usually require at least one higher-level spell. (In short, they're not breaking the game--but they're still doing basically whatever the rest of the party wants to do, but better.)

[Greenish]

What about PrCs that are shorter than 6 levels? Say, Revenant Blade (TWF, ranger-y sans animal companion, track, spells, but with some floating feats).

[Lonely Tylenol]

What about PrCs that are shorter than 6 levels? Say, Revenant Blade (TWF, ranger-y sans animal companion, track, spells, but with some floating feats).

I've encountered a lot of these myself, just thumbing through the books, and the easy answer seems to be "multiclass after you've completed the PrC"--though I suppose logical progressions of existing abilities could be used as well. The easiest example would probably be the Sword of Righteousness, a 3-level PrC that grants an exalted feat at each level (this is literally all it grants). If you were to want to take 6 levels of this PrC (you poor, poor sod, you), you would probably just continue to gain a bonus exalted feat at each level.

[Feralventas]

By crowdsource, do you mean to assemble a list and make it available, or are you asking for assistance in tackling the long list of 3.5 material?

Also, advancing spellcasting 1/1 or 5/6 I can see, but what about 1/2 casting progression or even 2/3's, where there is clearly a loss of casting capacity in favor of the specialization?

And yes, Spymaster and Soul Eater, thank you, though it's worth note I'm running PF and the PF version of Spymaster with Soul Eater translated for the system alterations.

[Greenish]

Ninja Spy and Iaijutsu Master from OA would be pretty awesome as base classes, too.

[Elric VIII]

I tried something like this using the list of PrCs in my signature (minus the Ur-Priest, AoP, Sublime Chord, Nar Demonbinder, and Chameleon). It is actually pretty fun, but for some you need to add on relevent base class abilities to make the PrC abilities work.

[Just to Browse]

You could make a base class out of the prestige paladin. That way one of your characters could be named Xzibit.

[ArcturusV]

Heh, I'd love to run Daidoji Defender or Bayushi Deceiver as a base class. Neither of them would be all that "Broken" as far as I can figure.

[Lonely Tylenol]

By crowdsource, do you mean to assemble a list and make it available, or are you asking for assistance in tackling the long list of 3.5 material?

Both, but mainly the former. I'm going to tackle the task myself, to the best of my ability, and then open the list to the public for use and discussion. Everything I've greylisted and blacklisted has a brief parenthetical explaining why it isn't on the whitelist (most of them are "advances existing spellcasting", though).


Also, advancing spellcasting 1/1 or 5/6 I can see, but what about 1/2 casting progression or even 2/3's, where there is clearly a loss of casting capacity in favor of the specialization?

It's not just a matter of balance in these cases: in many cases, it's also a matter of the fact that assigning spell lists to any of these classes tends to be a tedious and very arbitrary job. You could get dozens of different results based on whether you attach the Duskblade, Spellthief, Beguiler, or Warmage spell list to Arcane Trickster, for example, and while that does encourage some level of diversity, consistency it does not.

I'm also designing the "whitelist"/"greylist"/"blacklist" around whether or not the class can be used as is. Classes on the whitelist can be used without any real concerns that the class will break your game, and do not need abilities scaled in any way, for better or worse, in order to fit. In addition, the abilities all work as intended, even if you scale back the class so that entry begins at first level. Greylisted classes may be serviceable from a balance standpoint, but require rules clarifications or DM rulings on how certain things work (for example, the Seeker of the Song is not imbalancing in an E6 game, but all of its abilities are based on Perform ranks that assume you have 10 levels of classes preceding it), or need relatively minor balance tweaks (again, Seeker of the Song would be perfectly balanced in an E6 game--if all its damaging abilities did scaling damage), or perhaps the classes cause power creep in some way (Assassin supersedes Rogue/Spellthief; War Mind supersedes Psychic Warrior), but are themselves not imbalancing in any way. Blacklisted classes either require homebrew which makes fundamental assumptions about how the class works (assigning spell lists to prestige classes meant to advance existing classes) or sweeping balance changes (such as removing most of the Beloved of Valarian's class features, or scaling its Unicorn companion back to the point where it normally gets a Celestial Charger) in order to make them work, or the class was designed around the assumption that certain class features already existed on the character sheet before it was taken (such as the Hierophant), which makes entire sections of the class unusable at level 1 if taken.

Basically:
Whitelist = zero homebrew; can be used as-is without destroying your world or the rules it works under
Greylist = minimal homebrew; most of what is being done at this level are mere revisions or balance tweaks designed to adjust the class to first-level play
Blacklist = significant homebrew; whether it be balance shifts, class features designed to advance other features (without providing an independent source, per se, and then "stacking" with the existing source, so they can be used independently), or class features simply not designed to be used at this level, this class requires significant revisions or removal of entire features to work in E6.

You can decide for yourself whether a class is worth revising (I agree that a class like Ordained Champion probably isn't imbalanced at all if it enters play with the Cleric's Turn Undead and spell list, played to sixth level, or if Mindbender worked off the Wizard list), but the assumption is that these classes need serious revising in order to work at all.

[MukkTB]

Lets assume no requirements, but if the prestige class advances spellcasting or some other class feature, you have to have at least 1 level in the class you want to advance.
For the Pathfinder prestige classes:

Wizard 2 / Arcane Archer 4
This has 5 BAB and 5 casting levels. We get some fancy free arrows. Essentially we have a Tier 1 class that has pretty solid combat abilities to boot. It feels cheesy.

Wizard 2 / Arcane Trickster 4
Again we have a tier 1 class in the form of lvl 6 casting. Instead of impersonating an archer we now have a wizard impersonating a rogue. Bring me a cheese cart for the Tier 1.

Assassin 6
It looks like a rogue. It has less skill points and the abilities are more deadly than utility. In other words, a rogues combat style dialed up to 11 while the rest is allowed to atrophy. It looks fine. Tier 4 probably.

Sorcerer 2 Dragon Disciple 4
We take a sorcerer, we give him some dragon related abilities. I see this as a trade where he gives up the ability to cast 3rd level spells in exchange for +4 Str and 1 more BAB. Given how important the ability to cast 3rd level spells is in E6 I feel this is balanced OK. At least its not undeniably better than Sorcerer 6. Tier 3 I'd guess.

Duelist 6
Its a fighter thing with some abilities. I'm not sure how good it is, but its obviously not overpowered. Tier 5?

Wizard 1 Eldritch Knight 5
We have a CL 5, BAB 5 class again. Its pretty bereft of class features but that doesn't change the fact that it can cast 3rd level spells on a solid melee chassis. Bring the cheese cart back. Another Tier 1.

Wizard 1 Loremaster 5
Its a wizard for the most part. Its not all that different so I don't know. Tier 1.

Wizard 1 / Cleric 1 / Mystic Theurge 4
We're now casting 3rd level arcane and divine spells, not really acceptable. Tier 1.

Pathfinder Chronicler 6
We have a Bard without spellcasting, maybe a gentleman adventurer. Not broken, moving on. Tier 4.

Shadowdancer 6
Its a rogue without sneak attack bonus and dimensional door for short ranges at will. This seems like the ultimate thief/spy/sneaker. I guess that makes it tier 4 like the Barbarian. Really good at what it does, not much ability to do other things.

[Feralventas]

Tome of Magic suggestions.
Most of the Pact Magic options are the sort to progress binding with extra gimics, but the vestiges that make the class T2 are all online and higher level, so they might actually work well; basically a binder with ACFs instead of Binder+
-Anima Mage: Arcane/Binder mix. Nixed for being spellcasting, but if you like the 2/2+2/2 suggestion I made for Mystic THeurge above, might work well for you.
-Knight of the Sacred Seal is something of a Paladin/Cleric type, but again, just binder with ACFs.
-Scion of Dantilion, Binder ACF.
-Tenabrous Apostate. This one is a Cleric/Binder mix, so, as Anima Mage.
-Witch Slayer. Paladin with Burn The Witch. Their smite spirit sharer is really odd, but can work well for anti-posession games or binder-themed ones.

Shadow Magic.
-Child of Night is just caster progression with faster advancement of the don't eat don't sleep don't breath stuff of Shadowcaster, so I'd really suggest the base class instead of this one unless you agree that Shadowcaster is already underpowered at which point CoN should replace it as the main option.
-Master of Shadow is Caster with Familiar emphasis. Blacklist suggested.
-Noctumancer, Dual Progression, See Anima Mage.
-Shadowblade would be an okay 6 level class, but not great. Sudden Strike is a bit meek, and the abilities it gains really don't give it much to work with; basically a gimmick with a class instead of a class with a gimmick.
-Shadowsmith on the other hand is amazing for this. Full BAB D8 class which gets 2 1/day Mysteries to suppliment it, the ability to make simple tools and weapons from shadows, and making them magical at 6th level is a very nice capstone. Some bonuses to stealth and mobility skills equal to your level, works 1 minute per class level a number of times per day as class level, 6+int skill points and you can widen the effects to grant them to allies at 5th level. Skills, party buff, good abilities and utilities, Grade A would base a character off of.

Now time for the True Name options.
Keep in mind that while True Naming options are normally sub-par for a number of reasons; based on a skill check, gain 1 rank each level, but the DC goes up 2 each level, base 15+2xHD of target usually and only one source means very few options to pick. However, E6 means the DC of an equal opponent will never rise past 27, and between good Int, maxed ranks, and maybe a Pendant of the Silver Tongue for a +5 near the end, that's not too crazy.

-Acolyte of the Ego. Yes, this is a good example. All of your abilities are based off of the DC for yourself, which is a good start, plenty of Morphic Cadences that you can pick three of as you go along, giving room for customization. Full BAB Fighter class with cool abilities? Sounds legit.
-Bereft. Eh, not great, d6 HD and 2/3 BAB on a 5 level PrC. Might make a good debuffer. Nothing game breaking but not all that good either.
-Brimstone Speaker: 3 levels of casting progression over 6, some nifty features, though that Summon Monster ability sets off alarm bells of the normal summon cheese. Greylist.
-Disciple of the Word. Monk ACF pretty much; grants/progresses monk features and lets them replace a bunch of skills with Truenaming instead. The capstone requires Stunning Fist, but when using it you make a Truename check; depending on how high you get, you can make your attack count as an additional damage type, going from Slashing and Piercing at easy 20DC's to 45 at Epic. 6th level Truenamer, so 9 ranks+4 int, +5 item=18 cap though, so 38 stops between Adamantine's 40 and Cold Iron's 35.
-Fiend Binder. No. Don't do this to yourself. Blacklist. Summon cheese, posession cheese, get demons by spending money, not very good control, just...look elsewhere, maybe Malconvoker.

[MukkTB]

It looks like you should just disallow full or nearly full spellcasting prestige classes. It doesn't matter if a prestige class is better than a low tier. It matters if they outperform whats available in tier 1, breaking the ceiling.

[LTwerewolf]

Also beware iaijutsu master. Would be able to absolutely wreck most encounters.

[Feralventas]

Tome of Battle.
These work very nicely because most of them add +1 Maneuver Known or +1Stance and so on. The big concern is Recovery method, so you could go 4th ed and make them 1/encounter, or just default to Warblade since you won't have that many of them. Kinda auto-greylists until they decide recovery, but none of them really deserve a blacklist except for Jade Phoenix Mage and Ruby Knight Vindicator since they're casting progression as well as maneuvers.

-Bloodclaw Master. Two weapon fighting, Tiger Claw maneuvers, rage feature; great for a hack'em'up build character. D12 HD, but 2/3's BAB on 5 levels. Probably want one in Barbarian or Fighter to round it out.
-Bloodstorm Blade. Full BAB d12, close-range throwing build with maneuvers. Still a good fighter via Bonus Fighter feats.
-Deepstone Sentinal, Dwarf fighter with terrestrial focus. 5 levels, maybe look into Dwarven Defender for a start or dip.
-Eternal Blade, Elf fighter with ancestral focus.
-Master of the Nine. A little difficult fluff-wise, as it will kinda work best both fluff and mechanics-wise if you grab a level in Warblade or Swordsage or Crusader first. Consider it formally grey-list even with the auto-greylist.
-Shadow Sun Ninja: Good class on its own, great saves, swordsage maneuvers, and fun with Light and Dark thematics. Plus you never have to worry about that 10th level capstone that might turn you into a vampire.

Going to tap Ghostwalk next.

[ArcturusV]

I don't see how... They would have no armor proficienies, require Str, Dex, Int, Cha, Wis, and Con for HP since no Armor... so require good stats all around. Possibly sacrifice Str and Wis, still 4 stat dependent. Of course since it's E6, One Strike, Two Cuts, and their capstone isn't going to apply.

It'd be... okay. Not great. I'd only list it as better than a single class Fighter if you rolled stats instead of point buy and got VERY good rolls.

[Feralventas]

Also beware iaijutsu master. Would be able to absolutely wreck most encounters.

Elaborate please?

[JaronK]

At 5th level the Iaijutsu Master gets the ability to do up to 9*Cha bonus to damage when drawing his weapon and attacking a flat footed enemy. This requires a MASSIVE bonus to Iaijutsu Focus to fully pull off, but if combined with a Gnomish Quickrazor you'd slaughter everyone.

Also note that there's no need for a Blackguard PC base class... the Paladin of Tyranny already does this.

JaronK

[Feralventas]

Ghostwalk
-Arboreal Guardian. 1/2 casting progression if you allow it. Kinda Rangerish features. Take it or leave it.
-Bone Collector. This is a 6 level PrC with it's own spell list and 3rd level spells at the end with interesting class features specifically geared to killing undead. Can work nicely in an anti-undead, maybe anti-evil in general campaign, still nice for the rest. 9/10 would recommend.
-Death Warden Chanter. Dwarf Cleric, full casting, do not advise.
-Ghost Slayer, anti-incorporeal fighter/hunter. Not really advisable.

[ArcturusV]

Well, tacking on the Stormwrack classes:

Knight of the Pearl: Would require you to homebrew some Undead Turning into it. Or just allow the Extra Turning feat to be taken even if you don't actually have turning attempts to start with.

Legendary Captain: Fine as is, near as I can tell. Just the level 2 Leadership ability wouldn't actually kick in until level 6 when you take the feat I suppose. In any case it's hardly gamebreaking and even in a Shipborne campaign the bonuses aren't so ungodly powerful.

Leviathan Hunter: Fine as is. I wouldn't worry about it. MIGHT, and I stress only MIGHT, want to lower the cost for creating a Trophy, as it's a significant chunk of WBL at level 2.

Scarlet Corsair: Fine as is.

Sea Witch: ... somewhat powerful for spellcasting. It loses one caster level but gains some free SLAs, so a fair trade. Needs a spellcaster list to apply to it. Druid or Cleric is the obvious choice. I'd lean towards Cleric myself. But obviously needs that.

Stormcaster: Level one would be... insanely painful. And the rest of the class doesn't really get better. It'd need wizard spell casting, I'd think. But most of it's powers won't key properly with it's progression as listed, getting abilities two or three levels before they'd really be able to use them.

Wavekeeper: Oddly... not something I really see as a problem. Presume Druid Casting list. Animal Companion is granted by the level 2 ability as is. The domain slot gives them a level 1 spell they can cast at level 1. It's a bit of homebrew and rules-fu... but should be viable and interesting.

[LTwerewolf]

Like Jaronk said, cha to damage dice is significant. Throw your highest stat there. For the sake of argument let's call it a 16. It's not unreasonable. That's a +3 per damage dice.

Assuming they put max ranks (and why wouldn't they), they would have 9 ranks+3 from cha, so 12. It would also not be unreasonable to grab an item for a +2. So 14. Add 1 for minimum roll, you have a minimum of 2 extra dice.

Assuming you roll 1's for both dice and for your weapon damage, that's 9 damage minimum.

With a good roll, that's 5 extra dice, so even with more 1's on the dice, that's 15 from cha, +5 from dice, +1 from weapon. 21 damage When rolling nothing but 1's isn't something to sneeze at. Really though, that's a potential of 10+30+15=55 damage in one hit (not counting whatever strength mod is in play). Without really trying to pump a ton into the stat. Consider a barbarian raging with 22 str, that greatsword is doing 12+9 (str)+12(power attack)=33 max damage. If both crit, the greatsword here will do 66, while the iaijutsu master will to 65. Takes a crit for the barbarian to be able to do more damage, and not even that much more. (FYI with skill focus it brings the potential up to 6 damage dice)

Also consider cha to initiative as well as dex (and cha and dex will be high since those are the important stats) means they'll pretty much be going first. Throw improved initiative in there because why not. Most encounters will be over before anyone else gets to do anything.

Your mileage may vary, obviously, and these are pretty rough numbers, but it gets the point across.

[Feralventas]

At 5th level the Iaijutsu Master gets the ability to do up to 9*Cha bonus to damage when drawing his weapon and attacking a flat footed enemy. This requires a MASSIVE bonus to Iaijutsu Focus to fully pull off, but if combined with a Gnomish Quickrazor you'd slaughter everyone.

Also note that there's no need for a Blackguard PC base class... the Paladin of Tyranny already does this.

JaronK

At 6th level.
9 ranks.
5 cha mod.
+5 item.
+3 Skill Focus.
+22

So on a nat 20, 7d6+(7*Cha mod) =7d6+35 using my example. I can see where this might be an issue. However, you must catch the target Flat-Footed to do this. Not flanked, not denied Dex, but completely unaware of your intent to sneak up and cut them up, or put into that position by another effect, which demands cooperation and teamwork which is kinda the point of combat in this game anyway. It's not a great mitigation, but a decent spot check pretty much invalidates this PrC outside of formal duels unless someone is specifically trying to provide an opening. That, I would greylist it for.

[JaronK]

Note that the Grease spell makes the vast majority of enemies flat footed. So does Sapphire Nightmare Blade. Both are available with one level dips, which you've got room for. Warblade 1/Iaijutsu Master 5 would be the obvious choice, while having any Wizard in the party would be the other obvious choice. Between those two you should have very little trouble triggering Iaijutsu on a regular basis.

JaronK

[Lonely Tylenol]

At 5th level the Iaijutsu Master gets the ability to do up to 9*Cha bonus to damage when drawing his weapon and attacking a flat footed enemy. This requires a MASSIVE bonus to Iaijutsu Focus to fully pull off, but if combined with a Gnomish Quickrazor you'd slaughter everyone.

This, basically... And let's not forget how easy it is to optimize CHA-based skill checks (or skill checks in general).


Also note that there's no need for a Blackguard PC base class... the Paladin of Tyranny already does this.

JaronK

Yeah, but Paladin of Tyranny is terrible. :smalltongue:

[Feralventas]

Complete Scoundrel.
-Avenging Excecutioner. 5 levels, 3d6 sneak attack, so a Rogue level adding in could make it 4d6. 6+int mod skills, nice Skill Trick synergy, Will and Ref save. Features between sneak attack levels and does nicely as a damage/debuffer via Intimidate effects.
-Battle Trickster, 3 levels, full BAB and d10. Bonus Skill Tricks, 1 bonus feat at 2nd. Could work nicely for a skilled Fighter, or a less subtle Thief, but the best combo I can see with this would be 3 levels of Swashbuckler to go all int/dex and just have every skill in the book.
-Cloaked Dancer. Seems to be meant as a Bard PrC that grants sneak attack, but could work Perfectly with a 1level dip in Assassin. Features lend itself to a social killer of one of the most amusing sorts. Technically progresses spellcasting at 2nd and 4th of 5 levels, but doesn't need it to function; icing on the cake if it does.
-Combat Trapsmith, Very situational, 5 levels though, so you could get a dip in something versitile and run with it. 3/4's BAB, good For and Reflex save, Excelent if your party is regularly given the chance to scout out and set up the territory.
-Fortune's Friend. Five levels of re-roll until you win. Two levels spell progression at 2 and 4 again.
-GreyGuard. 1/2 casting progression, Smite Evil 1/day, and some features that let you get an atonement spell easier. Might work better on a Cleric spellcasting, but despite puns available greyguard stays on greylist for me.
-Magical Trickster, 3-level, 2 of them prgress spellcasting, lets you spend spell slots to get skill-tricks more than once per combat, bonus meta-magic. Might be worth it as the last 3 levels with a different base, just make it require 2nd level spells instead of 3rd and it could actually function as a viable Prestige Class even in E6. Not really worth it as a base though.
-Malconvoker. I know I referred to this when dealing with the Fiend Binder earlier, but this would be 5/6 spell progression with extra features dealing with demons and generally lending itself to summoning cheese.
-Master of Masks. You could ignore the spellcasting progression (only 2 level's worth out of 6) and this would still be great for E6. 1/2's BAB, good saves on Ref and Will, D6 HD, 4+int mod skills per level, and each mask (2 at 1st level, 5 at 6th) has powers and abilities offered to allow customization. Maybe add a feat to gain an additional mask after you've hit the level cap.
-Mountebank. The ultimate get-away artist. Gain 2 Alter Egos that essentially function as Alter Self; technically lasts as the spell with your level in the class being your effective caster level, but there's no limit on times used per day. 2d6 sneak attack while you're at it, Int mod to Bluff, and 2/day 20ft Dimension Door; just enough to throw pursuers off your trail by jaunting out of sight and switching your face.
-Psibond Agent. This seems like it would either be a very cool concept, or a very poorly excecuted one. The 2d6 sneak attack will give you something to do in combat, and 6+int mod skill points per level along with a nice solid set of class skills should help round it out, but the main feature, the Psibond, requires a subtle hand to really use effectively.
-Spell Warp Sniper. Full casting progression with sneak attacks for your AOE-turned-ray attacks. And your ray attacks. Not easy to do effectively with a non-caster, and likely to over-shadow most regular base caster classes, though not enough class skills to effectively over-shadow the thief in the party.
-Uncanny Trickster. All the skill tricks, 3 level's worth anyway. More of a skill-trick focus than the Battle Trickster, but used about the same way.



Going to read through Libris Mortis next if someone hasn't already said they're on it.

[Zaq]

I think Dread Pirate is totally appropriate as a base class. Possibly even underpowered.

[Feralventas]

Libris Mortis.
I'm going to start by neglecting the savage species progressions out of LM. They're already base-classes for the most part.

-Death's Chosen, 3 levels, full BAB. Good body-guard in general. Mix with Dwarven Defender for added resiliance and defensive capacity.
-Dirgesinger is dependant on Bardic Music, so you'll have to tweak it to start having it at 1st level. 5 levels though, so you can just make that the default 1st if you''d rather. Doesn't actually advance spellcasting.
-Master of Radiance, 4/5 levels spell progression with some literally shiny SLA's. Not really all that powerful compared to standard cleric and actually a nerf if you use the Druid casting instead of the original source.

There are three more non-undead PrC's, but all of them are spell-progression+ in nature. Sacred Purifier Might work, but it's pretty clearly Cleric+ as well.

Then the Undead only PrC's. Might work with Necropolitan, or in place of Savage options if you're allowed to dip away from them for the PrC instead.
-Ephemeral Exemplar only works if you're incorporeal; Ghostwalk's Ghost template might work for that, but otherwise this is hard to justify as a base class.
-Lurking Terror on the other hand looks like it might work out perfectly for a stealthy character, particularly some of the intimidation-focused ones I mentioned earlier. Hide in Plain sight at it's 3rd and last level, with a +2 DC boost to any "special" attacks it has, and Darkvision 60; extends to 90 if you have darkvision already.
-Master Vampire. Requires that you already have spawned a few other vamps, probably not Great material for it, but as the last 3 levels on top of the Vampire Spawn savage option it could do well with Leadership as an end-goal in mind.
-Tomb Warden's location restrictions make it less than ideal for a player character option, but it's not a bad 3 levels. Immune to Turn attempts against you as an undead as long as you're in your Tomb (or what have you). Always know of any intruders in the area you select, and their locations. Plus 1/day add your Charisma to your combat rolls as an insight bonus. Taken straight from the fluff, it's restrictions are pretty bad, but if you're playing a sea-going or air-ship campaign where you can dedicate yourself to guarding the ship, it could work out alright.

[JaronK]

I think Dread Pirate is totally appropriate as a base class. Possibly even underpowered.

No way, it would be overpowered. Look at that level 5 evil ability. Combine it with Imperious Command and a set of +1 Fearsome (Drow of the Underdark) Armor.

As a move action, if they fail a will save, all enemies within 30' cower for Cha mod rounds, then are shaken for one round. That's absolutely devastating in a game where fear immunity is rare... you'd probably combo it with Crusader so you could attack with standard action martial strikes on rounds when you fire off a fear pulse. That or combo it with the Inspire Awe variant Bard (Dragon Magic) with their ability to continually use a fear effect on everything in the area... that means a single pulse could make all enemies cower indefinitely (and you can keep trying every round). Scarlet Corsair gets the same ability, also at level 5, by the way.

So yeah, you basically make everything within 30' will save or be removed from the fight entirely, every round, at no cost other than the move action. Devastating.

Another obvious set of broken options: Ur Priest and similar fast progression casting classes.

JaronK

[Talionis]

Feralventas RE: Tome of Battle
You mentioned it, but I thought I'd suggest they may need to get the prerequisite maneuvers at their first level. These classes would have a recovery mechanic and often no maneuvers to recover. So I'd suggest granting them those prerequisite maneuvers at their first level. This would be less than a starting Crusader, Warblade, or Swordsage, but it would give them choices and grant the feel of an initiator class.


Tome of Battle.
These work very nicely because most of them add +1 Maneuver Known or +1Stance and so on. The big concern is Recovery method, so you could go 4th ed and make them 1/encounter, or just default to Warblade since you won't have that many of them. Kinda auto-greylists until they decide recovery, but none of them really deserve a blacklist except for Jade Phoenix Mage and Ruby Knight Vindicator since they're casting progression as well as maneuvers.

-Bloodclaw Master. Two weapon fighting, Tiger Claw maneuvers, rage feature; great for a hack'em'up build character. D12 HD, but 2/3's BAB on 5 levels. Probably want one in Barbarian or Fighter to round it out.
-Bloodstorm Blade. Full BAB d12, close-range throwing build with maneuvers. Still a good fighter via Bonus Fighter feats.
-Deepstone Sentinal, Dwarf fighter with terrestrial focus. 5 levels, maybe look into Dwarven Defender for a start or dip.
-Eternal Blade, Elf fighter with ancestral focus.
-Master of the Nine. A little difficult fluff-wise, as it will kinda work best both fluff and mechanics-wise if you grab a level in Warblade or Swordsage or Crusader first. Consider it formally grey-list even with the auto-greylist.
-Shadow Sun Ninja: Good class on its own, great saves, swordsage maneuvers, and fun with Light and Dark thematics. Plus you never have to worry about that 10th level capstone that might turn you into a vampire.

[prufock]

I have a nifty idea that I want to work on. I'm running an E6 game, and even though I know blackguards are available at level 6, I realized that even if I let it be a standard class on it's own, it wouldn't be game changing. Looking at other prestige classes, with a few exceptions, would be seemingly fitting as well.

Honestly, with the amount of alternate class features, feat choices, substitution levels, etc that are available, I'm not sure why your characters can't differentiate themselves. Personally I would just use base classes that are similar to the theme/abilities that you're trying to obtain this way. Blackguard as Paladin of Tyranny/Slaughter (or Antipaladin if you're using Pathfinder) or even a Hexblade, Binder, Bard, etc.

[Feralventas]

Feralventas RE: Tome of Battle
You mentioned it, but I thought I'd suggest they may need to get the prerequisite maneuvers at their first level. These classes would have a recovery mechanic and often no maneuvers to recover. So I'd suggest granting them those prerequisite maneuvers at their first level. This would be less than a starting Crusader, Warblade, or Swordsage, but it would give them choices and grant the feel of an initiator class.

With the exception of the ones that require maneuvers of a certain level, I think this sounds fine.

Not quite ready to go back to hitting the books yet, but should have a couple more up later tonight if I have my wits about me.

[Person_Man]

I see no problem with using almost any prestige class as a base class, so long as everyone in the party is playing in roughly the same Tier bracket and power level. Even if people want to play all Ur-Priests and Sublime Chords, does it really matter? You just end up playing a game where players are glass cannons. It's not really within the spirit of E6, and you'll have a harder time balancing encounters, but it can be done. It'd probably be a lot like running a ECL 12ish game where the players all had terrible Constitution scores.


Though if your goal is to run an slightly higher power E6 game where players have access to abilities from prestige classes, you could just give them additional abilities that fit their character. Everyone picks a Tier 3 or higher class to use as their base class. They get all of the spells, powers, maneuvers, vestiges, or soulmelds from that base class. Plus they get 1 additional class ability per level (Divine Grace, Sneak Attack +1d6, Familiar, Rage 1/day, etc) drawn from the first 6 levels of any class or prestige class, with all abilities requiring DM approval. Players choose their abilities at the same time, so the DM can try and keep the power levels roughly in the same ball park. If someone wants an open ended ability (like Wildshape or Alter Self) they get a single form approved. If someone wants the "improved" version of an ability (like Bear Shape or Frenzy) they must first take the base ability which enables it.

[Talionis]

With the exception of the ones that require maneuvers of a certain level, I think this sounds fine.

Not quite ready to go back to hitting the books yet, but should have a couple more up later tonight if I have my wits about me.

That's what I was thinking too. At first level only first level maneuvers.

[Feralventas]

I see no problem with using almost any prestige class as a base class, so long as everyone in the party is playing in roughly the same Tier bracket and power level. Even if people want to play all Ur-Priests and Sublime Chords, does it really matter? You just end up playing a game where players are glass cannons. It's not really within the spirit of E6, and you'll have a harder time balancing encounters, but it can be done. It'd probably be a lot like running a ECL 12ish game where the players all had terrible Constitution scores.

.

While I can agree with most of these sentiments, the reason Ur-Priest and Sublime Chord are grey-list at best is that they start out granting higher level spells or faster spell progression than normal; Sublime Chord for example starts at 4th level spells and goes to 9, so it would require a re-tolling in its entirety as it's not intended to draw very much from it's bardic roots in terms of mechanics aside from Perform checks and Bardic Music with a little fluff to boot about the Sublime Song.

[Feralventas]

Next up, Sandstorm. I'd delayed this one since I figured it went hand in hand with Stormwrack and Frostburn, which will be my next piece unless someone puts it up before I post this one.

-Ashworm Dragoon. The mount granted by this PrC is probably appropriate for it's intended level (6 minimum) but is a bit too powerful to start off with at level 1. It would need to either have the mount's access moved to at least 5th and possibly 6th level, (somewhat invalidating some of the Heighten Sting feature) or diminished down to one HD and progressed from there as a normal animal companion. Most of the features other than that could work with a standard mount, however, so it's not a total loss, but would need work. Greylist.
-Lord of the Tides. 5/6 spell progression and desert class features, not advised.
-Sand Shaper, second verse, same as the first.
-Scion of Tem-Et-Nu. Full BAB, D10, 1/2 spell progression and some 1/day SLAs that work well for combat. Looks like a Paladin to me. Consider Cleric spell list, but otherwise not bad.
-Scorpion Heritor, pretty much a Rogue with ACFs. 3d6 sneak attack, 1/day 1 minute polymorph into a tiny scorpion, 8+int skills per level and immunity to scorpion venom. Looks solid.
-Walker in the Wastes, 5/6 spell progression again. On the other hand, if you take out the spell progression, it's still not bad. 3d6 Desication damage on a touch attack, some nifty desert and drought related abilities; all it would need is a bump up to 3/4s BAB and some armor proficiency.

[Feralventas]

Hah, bet you'd thought I'd let this fall off the front page.

Frostburn then.

-Cloud Anchorite. Progresses Monk abilities, but over-all seems about as potent as a normal Monk PrC. Has a couple nifty gimicks that make it possible to have some situational utility, but your feats are pretty much all going to have to be giving you something to do in combat, and the 4+int mod skill points don't really do much to make up for it. Useful if you'll need to walk on water or climb around a lot; that climb speed Can make them very mobile in a mountainous or cavernous or urban setting, but that's about the best you can pull with it. T4ish at best, but viable.
-Cryokineticist. The first five levels are pretty worthwhile as a base class option, but the 6th level capstone requires power points that the class levels don't provide. Consider removing the cost, or changing it to base off of a key ability score, and the rest works out fine.
-Disciple of Thyrm. Full, BAB, D10 HD, it's own spell list and progression that fits within E6 requirements. This would be a Very powerful E6 base class, so use it with caution, but there's no other major loops to hop through to make it work.
-Frost Mage, Caster progression, out.
-Frost Rager. 5 levels of ice-cold barbarian goodness. Looks fine, good damage capacity with natural attacks.
-Knight of the Iron Glacier. Same problem as the Ashwyrm Dragoon compounded by having a 7th level mount granted at level1. Probably not advisable.
-Primeval. Yet another good Barbarian equivilent. The shape-shift and Polymorph ability sets off alarm bells, sure, but it's also under Polymorphs Restrictions, meaning no HD higher than your own; this should keep the ability-score and polymorph cheese to a minimum if it's a problem at all. Potent, and capable without being over powering.
-Rimefire Witch, Stormsinger, and Winterhaunt of Iborighu are all full or near full spell progression. I love Stormsinger's fluff but it's basically a Bard with features intended for 6+ level stuff. None of these are really going to work in e6 without significant controls and observation.

[Demons_eye]

I didn't see it brought up but one of the things I always wanted to try in E6 is Prestiging like you do in various video games, namely the old Dragon warrior game. After the PC's get to level 6 they can restart to level 1 as a PcR but with a tad bit higher stats or health.

IE: The Fighter has reached his peak of ability and wish's to focuses on his weapons ability. He decides to Prestige into a Kensai. Doing so he keeps all his feats, class features, and ability scores and starts off as level 1 with 1/4th his level HP and Base Saves. Class features that increase spellcasting you already have don't carry over.


This gives the PC's power creep in the long run but every time you restart you are fragile and you are still fighting the same level encounters that you would be if you hadn't prestiged.

[ArcturusV]

It's an interesting concept. Kind of reminds me of Dual Classing in 2nd Edition. Would be fun to see how that plays out.

[Fyermind]

Fiendish Codex II:

Hellbreaker:
Whitelist
It looks and feels a lot like a spell thief. Actually it seems basically identical minus trapfinding plus the ability to ride along with teleportation effects at sixth level. Probably a tier 4 because it can't steal spells just SLAs. The level cap is artificially high, but that doesn't change much.

Hellfire Warlock:
Blacklist
Full invoking, +6d6 damage. On top of a binder 1 warlock 2 or warlock 3 this would be much too powerful.

Hellreaver:
Whitelist
A much more powerful version of smite evil, some strong in combat healing, and mettle. This looks like a good paladin fix if you were willing to forgo spells. Compare to a Crusader for balance, it seems a little strong, but much less versatile, so I'm okay with it. 5 levels + 1 level in binder is probably best.

Soulguard:
Blacklist
5/6 divine casting + abilities. None of it's abilities seem game breaking though they are very strong against evil outsiders. True seeing at level 1 is a little crazy though.

[Feralventas]

Oh good, is still going.

Complete Adventurer.

-The Animal Lord; Full BAB, good Fort ad Ref save. Highly customizable options depending on what kind of animal is chosen. Detect Animals is a bit situational, but still potentially useful in finding resources within the game, as well as Wild Empathy. Recommend allowance.
-The Beast Master; Similar build on the basics, but instead of becoming the animal, you gain extra animal companions. Add in Animal Cohort for a 3rd one if you like. White-list.
-The Bloodhound; Another fighter-type in base stats, but very different features. Lots of things to aid in non-magical tracking and non-lethal take-downs. Capstone of See Invisibility and SR 21 vs divination effects to find them. 5th level lets them at least Try to track down untraceable targets like those with Woodland Stride and Trackless Step.
-Daggerspell Mage. Casting Progression, 5/6. Mage/Thief.
-Daggerspell Shaper; Casting progression again, but actually a decent class without it. Wild Shape, 2d6 sneak attack in 6 levels, and 6+int modifier skill points per level. Not bad, greylist.
-Dread Pirate was covered already on the first page IIRC, but still looks solid here.
-Dungeon Delver; several good class features based around getting into and around obstacles, Blindsense at 5th level is pretty damn potent, and 8+int skill points per level. Not comparatively great, might be more of a background character without UMD for wands with damage spells. Useful, but not confrontational.
-The Exemplar is another skill-focused character, but like the Delver; you can make it work in a non-combat perspective, but needs either careful use of those options (making the skill Iaijutsu for example) or alternative means of adventuring (stealth, acrobatic, or manipulation focus) to deal with challenges.
-The Fochlycan Lyricist; Bard/Druid/Arcane Tripple progression. I love the fluff but this will not work for E6 without Extraordinary moderation.
-Ghost Faced Killer; Fighter/Thief, good damage potential, damage/debuffer. Whitelist.
-Highland Stalker; mobility-based fighter with Skirmish damage buffs. Looks a bit weak, but does get Swift Tracker. Not all that powerful, but not impossible to use. Greylist.
-Maester; 5 levels, 4/5 casting progression couple bonus feats, just play a Wizard.
-Master of Many Forms; beware wildshape cheese, but other than that this is a pretty solid class. Utility through alternate forms, combat through shape-shift, skills through racial bonuses.
-Nightsong Enforcer; Another skilled, stealthy fighter, this one aimed more at team-work and cooperative efforts. Lots of static buffs to allies efforts, and a +20 to hear and see allies for those times when you need to hear the party's more brazen or foolish members of the team screaming for backup.
-Nightsong Infiltrator. Pairs well with the above Enforcer obviously; more team work options, but with a more indirect focus on methods rather than subtle force.
-Ollam; 3/5 casting progression with some inspiration effects. Suggest Divine Bard.
-Shadowbane Inquisitor; Smite, some minor save bonuses, and some other bonuses, but the class features seem to imply that one should have some divine spellcasting in order to use them. might work for multi-class, but otherwise blacklist as effectively useless without some casting that it doesn't progress or provide.
-Shadowbane Stalker; casting progression with sneak attack.
-Shadowmind; manifesting progression with sneak attack, based on a high level Power that probably won't come up in E6.
-Spymaster was covered on the 1st page, but still seems good.
-Street Fighter; 5 levels of brawling and bludgeoning. Works fine for a fighter, needs 1 more level to round out.
-Tempest; two-weapon-fighting fighter, 5 levels, but all it gets for it is combat options.
-Thief Acrobat; acrobatic high mobility combatant and skill monkey. Works well, but only 5 levels.
-Vigilante; Powerful, but not overpowered, Has its own spell list, caps at 3rd level for 6th level, has some good class features for its intended fluff, though I'm not sure how well it translates to party contributions.
-Virtuoso; bardic spell progression and some extra abilities, but over-all not recommended for this.
-Wild Plains Outrider. 3 levels of being the Rohirrim. Good for any mounted combatant.

[Feralventas]

Complete Arcane doesn't have much to work with, as almost all of its classes are casting progression, or grants spells too fast (Seul Archanamach and Sublime Chord get to spells too high level.)

So, onto Complete Divine.

-Consecrated Harrier doesn't seem to be a problem at first glance; spells are within reason. However, if you look at the class features they include things like Dispel Magic effects at 3rd level and False Vision at 6th.
-Evangelist seems to be a good Face character, having several features to preach to the masses. Only 5 levels, but still useful.
-Holy Liberator makes a good Paladin or Crusader-type character.
-Pious Templar as well; more durable one in terms of fighting material threats via DR instead of save bonuses, though Mettle at 1st level makes it a hell of a dip.
-Temple Raider of Olidamara. It's spells per day are diminished compared to the number granted a Cleric even if it is getting Sneak Attack and a couple other features. Shouldn't out-shine the normal divine caster, but makes a good cleric/thief mix.

[JaronK]

Gonna go out on a limb here and say that most folks wouldn't like dealing with Dungeonscape's Trapsmith. Fabricate as a 3rd level spell is a bit much.

JaronK

[Callin]

The Knight of the Raven PrC (from Expedition to Castle Ravenloft) would make for an awesome base class for this I think.

[Feralventas]

The Knight of the Raven PrC (from Expedition to Castle Ravenloft) would make for an awesome base class for this I think.

Maybe, but the DM still needs to pick a spellcasting base class to use for it's spell progression, which has been enough to warrant blacklist in most cases, greylist at best.

It's still a matter of how you want to handle your own games, but by the rubric we started with, its one that would require a high amount of house/dm ruling.