Is my DM giving his character a super item?

[Angelisrafel]

I have a small playgroup of 4-5 players (One is a regular No-show, but is also our most Vet player.) We all take turns DMing and have a pretty good time. We like discussing our characters and are pretty quick to point out when someone is getting a little too OP for their own good.

We just finished a campaign with a friend, 4 PC's including the DM.
PC 1 (a bard) got an Amulet that gives him +2 to his con checks and 2 extra uses of bardic music a day.
PC 2 (A Barbarian) Got a +1 Greataxe with a fire enchant
PC 3 (A fighter) Got a +1 Scythe of Keen
PC 4 (The DM, a Sorcerer) got a Wand of Magic missile. It holds only 10 charges, but replenishes 3 a day and the spell levels with the caster.

We figured the Weapons to be about 9.5K gold each, but the Amulet seems super underpowered and the wand seems way overpowered. Is our DM giving himself an unfair advantage in future campaigns or is this wand not as good as it seems?

[RFLS]

Nah, it's not that bad, really. Is the bonus to Con for checks only, or is it a +2 Con item? If it's a +2 Con item, it's pretty solid. The MM wand isn't bad as long as isn't meta-magic'ed.

[Randomguy]

It seems fine to me. It's priced at 2k more than an eternal wand of magic missile, if it were made at CL 9, which is the highest CL that gives magic missile any bonus. It's definitely useful, but I wouldn't call it overpowered.

[Angelisrafel]

I should have been more specific, by Con i meant Concentration, not constitution >.>

As for the wand, all i know is its just a regular wand of infinite magic missiles that levels up with the caster (So at level 9 he'd be getting 5 missiles instead of the 3 he gets now at level 6) and recharges 3 uses a day.

I suppose the wand bothers me because he Originally rolled a Wizard, only to complain he didn't get enough spells so he rerolled to Sorc (after figuring out his level 5 starting gold he also added his Wizards previous gold into the total, effectively doubling his gold), But all he EVER does is cast spells. He has a weapon he can use, he just refuses to use it at any given time.

Player 1 (My brother) agree's with me that the wand is OP, player 2 (the DM's little brother) we never got the chance to ask about, but player 5 (who wasn't there and is our vet player) knows and doesn't like it at all.

[Deadline]

I should have been more specific, by Con i meant Concentration, not constitution >.>

The amulet is definitely underpowered.


As for the wand, all i know is its just a regular wand of infinite magic missiles that levels up with the caster (So at level 9 he'd be getting 5 missiles instead of the 3 he gets now at level 6) and recharges 3 uses a day.

I suppose the wand bothers me because he Originally rolled a Wizard, only to complain he didn't get enough spells so he rerolled to Sorc (after figuring out his level 5 starting gold he also added his Wizards previous gold into the total, effectively doubling his gold), But all he EVER does is cast spells. He has a weapon he can use, he just refuses to use it at any given time.

Player 1 (My brother) agree's with me that the wand is OP, player 2 (the DM's little brother) we never got the chance to ask about, but player 5 (who wasn't there and is our vet player) knows and doesn't like it at all.

This is starting to sound more like you not liking spellcasters than an argument about overpowered items. The wand is ... unique? But doesn't sound wildly overpowered.

Also, his entire wand is rendered useless by a common first level spell, Shield.

[Krobar]

I also don't think the wand is a big deal.

[CaladanMoonblad]

I'm not a big fan of homebrew wands that act like Warlocks. There's a class for that. Spell leveling with caster is beyond the pale. Wands are charge items, or 2x daily. I think it's broken and violates the magic item creation rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm) because it is mixing charges and continuous items.

Charged items are supposed to burn out. It's a throw away item. The Eternal Wands in MIC are balanced by having so few uses per day (like 2). Going for something in between is... unbalancing.

Having it level with the user? Uh... that means that the high end of a magic missile wand is 750(1)(9) = 6750 gp that is also continuous use which is (2000)(1)(9) = 18000 but when added together (if a DM allowed it) would be around (6750)(1.5)+ (18000)= 28,125

Such a thing would be an artifact.

[Toy Killer]

I'm not a big fan of homebrew wands that act like Warlocks. There's a class for that. Spell leveling with caster is beyond the pale. Wands are charge items, or 2x daily. I think it's broken and violates the magic item creation rules (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm) because it is mixing charges and continuous items.

Charged items are supposed to burn out. It's a throw away item. The Eternal Wands in MIC are balanced by having so few uses per day (like 2). Going for something in between is... unbalancing.

Such a thing would be an artifact.


Also, his entire wand is rendered useless by a common first level spell, Shield.

Granted, as a DM he has control over who casts Shield against his caster but it's still hardly Artifact worthy. I'd Allow it if my players came up to me with it.

Magic Missile is a great touch for a caster but holds nothing against a Scythe in the hands of a Power attack cleaving monstrosity. He shouldn't make a big splash with the item. In my experience, when a DM has a DMPC in the party, it means he hasn't learned to make villains he loves yet, or he's patching up whats missing in the party to keep them afloat.

I'm guessing mostly the former, with just a minor in the latter, Aye?

[ArcturusV]

Kinda odd that the wand recharges charges. I was going to say: It's not even something he should necessarily NEED on the wand.

Then I remembered in 3.5 you can't recharge wands/staves by casting the spell it holds into it like you could in older editions. :smallsigh: Which at least makes the recharging thing make a little sense for why he'd want it.

I'm guessing he played something like Dungeons and Dragons online where the wands act like that? Or he just wants to make sure the sorcerer never is reduce to "... I sling at the enemy..." for round after round. Though Sorcerers get so many spells per day that at level 6 that shouldn't really be a problem unless he's SERIOUSLY going supernova at the drop of a hat, every fight.

[ericgrau]

The wand is a bit underpowered. A similar staff or CL 9 wand would be worth almost half as much as the weapons. Keen and fire aren't that great for a +1 equivalent, but are you really afraid of a sorcerer ever running out of 1st level spells? The barbarian and fighter got main items they can use all the time whereas the sorcerer got a mediocre backup item.

Actually I'd much rather have a CL 9 wand, which is cheaper than the weapons, and cast magic missiles whose power are ahead of my level. By the time he actually hits level 9 it will be almost worthless, and 50 charges won't even come close to running out before level 9.

The bard got shafted much worse compared to the weapons.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I'd price it based on a single-spell staff at one charge per use. Note that the wielder gets to use use the item's caster level or his own, whichever is higher. Keep in mind the following: The minimum caster level is that which is needed to meet the prerequisites given. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicItemBasics.htm#casterLevel)
If an item lists Craft Staff among its prerequisites, then the minimum caster level to meet this prerequisite is 12th, which would be the minimum caster level of this item. That means it's priced at a caster level of 12, or 4500 gp.

For the recharging effect, we have the following from Table: Estimating Magic Item Gold Piece Values (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/creatingMagicItems.htm):
Charges per day: Divide by (5 divided by charges per day)

This is for a limited number of charges per day, rather than gaining charges per day, but I'll get to that. Note that the item's base value would not be reduced for starting at so few charges due to the recharging mechanic.

If it were only usable 3/day its price would be 4500/(5/3) or 2700 gp. I'd add this onto the 4500 base value, for a total value of 7200 gp for this item, and it would always be usable at a caster level of at least 12th, even if the caster's own level is significantly lower.

For the Bard's item, that +2 to Constitution-based checks should apply to Fort saves as well, but even then it's a bit underpowered. Making it a +4 would bring it up to speed with what the rest of the party got.

[HalfQuart]

I think the wand is overpowered compared to the other items, but probably not grossly so.

A normal 50-charge wand of magic missile with CL=9 is 6,750gp. On the low end, eternal wands tend to be a bit more than regular wands of the same level, and on the high end a bit under regular wands. So I'd put the value of it at about 6,700gp as an eternal wand.

But an eternal wand is only 2 charges per day. So 3 charges/day is 1.5 times as good, so that would bring it to 6,700 x 1.5 = 10050.

But it's not really just 3 charges per day.. you can use up to 10 charges in a single day, but only recharge 3 of them for the next day. It's hard to figure out how much value that adds. It probably depends most on what adventures look like with your group. Do they usually fit in one day, with long periods of rest between them? If so, you could probably put the value at close to 3x, or around 30,000 gp. Or do the characters slog through several days in a row of combat? In that case, I'd put it at maybe 1.5x, or 15,000gp. That seems about right to me.

He might argue that it's not caster level 9 now... but if it scales by level without him paying anything additional, then it is pretty much as good as that. You could make it so that he would have to pay something to advance the caster level... that would make it more in line with the weapons. But that would also be complicated.

Oh, and the weapons sound like regular +2 equivalent items, which makes their value only ~8,350 gp. I'd say just change his wand to an Eternal Wand of MM at CL9 with 3 charges/day, and skip the 10 total charge thing and the scaling with level bit, and call it even.

The Amulet seems rather weak, although I'm not really sure how to value the 2 music extra uses thing... The closest I can find is the Circlet of Mages (SpC 86), which gives +2 to concentration checks and has recovery mechanism for spells. It's worth 5,000gp. I'd say add a +2 enhancement bonus to Constitution (4,000 gp value) to the Amulet on top of the Concentration and music features. Or maybe skip the Concentration bonus and just Constitution and extra music.

[Aotrs Commander]

Magic Missile is an okay back-up spell by this point, as the Sorc is level 6, his (theoretical) Fireball already does potentially more damage (and to multiple targets). 17.5 average automatic damage isn't bad (and that's from a 9th level Magic Missile), but the meleers ought to be doing about that in a round, or close to, at that level; certainly should by 9th level.

Look at it this; every round the sorcerer spends tossing MM off is one round he's not doing something far worse and kill-steal-y, so for an NPC that's good because it's keeping the limelight off him.

But honestly, I'd be surprised if the sorcerer is really running out of spells by level 6, for that matter (approximately 17 1st to 3rd spells/day plus 6 0th), so it may not even see much use (or it may not see much practical use.

Remember, he's got to use it more than 50 times in total before it's in effect any different to a regular 50-charge 9th level Wand of Magic Missiles (which costs 6750 gold, tthree-quarters of your +2 equivilent magic weapons. (And if it's scaling to his caster level, until he's level 9 it's strictly worse.) Until that happens, the recharge thing is irrelevant; it's more of a psychological advantage than an actual one. As it's his caster level, if he uses it and still has spell slots left at the end of the day, he might as well not have used it, as there's effectively no difference between him using the wand and his own spell slots.

(Eternal Wands, in my opinion have always seemed a bit pointless outside of maybe a few niche uses (spells you only use a couple of but use every day, like Mage Armour or something, I dunno), given the expense over regular wands.)

So no, I don't think it's overpowered at all. I'd be hard pressed to see him using 50 Magic Missiles over and above his own personal spells over the course of the character's career, especially since you're already rapidly approaching the level where there's just better things to be doing with his actions.

So unless your campaign is pretty unusual in terms of how long your fights go on and how many per day, it's really not going to make much difference apart from making the sorcerer feel like he's got a renewable resources to use in extended fights.

If it is an unusual campaign, the DM may be right in giving it him; if the fights are regularly going on ten rounds or so every time then it gives him something to do other than sit and the back and ineffectively take pot shots with a back up weapon (by this point, the usefulness of the wizard's back-up weapons is rapidly depleting, as the BAB verses AC gap widens.)



The bard's amulet seems pretty pants - if he's been sensible with his skill points he shouldn't need a concentration boost (if he hasn't he may need it...), but I guess some of that depends on his build (like if he's got Snowflake Wardance of something a couple of extra music abilities are probably quite welcome).

[gr8artist]

We are running a similar round-robin campaign, and one of our major rules is that no DM can in any way give a reward to his PC. His character can be there, sure. You can roleplay that he got his fair cut of the loot, sure. But mechanically, when you write stuff on your sheet at the end of the night, the DM's inventory should not change.
This plan works best when all players are DM'ing equally. If the majority of the games fall to only one or two players, then this method is unfair to them.

Another option is to tally up the GP worth of stuff each character has every time they level up. Keep an idea of who's got more or less than the others. Give them an extra item if they fall behind, or they go one game with generic trash treasure instead of something they actually want if they're pulling ahead. This plan works well if everyone's showing up every time. If they're not, then they'll get wealth they didn't earn.

[Saito Takuji]

dosent seem too overpowered, once all the charges are depleted it is basically just an extra 3 uses of magic missile per day, tho i guess it would stack from non-use, so there is that. in regards to leveling up it would tap out at 5 magic misslies doing 2-5 damage so only about 10-25 damage overall, somewhat comperable to itterative attacks with a weak ranged weapon, with an enchantment that would allow it to deal force damage instead of its normal type.

actually it seems fairly balanced to me.

[Pickford]

I have a small playgroup of 4-5 players (One is a regular No-show, but is also our most Vet player.) We all take turns DMing and have a pretty good time. We like discussing our characters and are pretty quick to point out when someone is getting a little too OP for their own good.

We just finished a campaign with a friend, 4 PC's including the DM.
PC 1 (a bard) got an Amulet that gives him +2 to his con checks and 2 extra uses of bardic music a day.
PC 2 (A Barbarian) Got a +1 Greataxe with a fire enchant
PC 3 (A fighter) Got a +1 Scythe of Keen
PC 4 (The DM, a Sorcerer) got a Wand of Magic missile. It holds only 10 charges, but replenishes 3 a day and the spell levels with the caster.

We figured the Weapons to be about 9.5K gold each, but the Amulet seems super underpowered and the wand seems way overpowered. Is our DM giving himself an unfair advantage in future campaigns or is this wand not as good as it seems?

Technically that wand is worth 3 feats (extra slot) where the caster always picks magic missile. Since it levels with him.

So yeah, you guys are getting totally hosed in that exchange.

[icefractal]

The wand is decent, but not, I would say, significantly stronger than the weapons. Keep in mind that unlimited usage of low-level attack spells is already a thing you can do with Reserve feats, and that by 9th level it's going to be a waste to use the wand against most foes unless you're already winning the battle and don't want to waste the serious stuff.

And no, the wand is not "worth three feats". That's like saying that Boots of Striding and Springing are worth 4 feats - (Skill Focus, Athletic, Dash, Dash').


Edit: Also -
But all he EVER does is cast spells. He has a weapon he can use, he just refuses to use it at any given time.That's what a Sorcerer (or Wizard) does. They don't use a weapon unless they want to entertain people by flailing around ineffectively. Some casters do wade into melee, but not those ones.

[ericgrau]

The greataxe is worth a level of sorcerer and infinity feats for extra slot for blades of fire every round.

[Urpriest]

The wand isn't overpowered, but it still shouldn't have been made. If your DM is having trouble running out of slots, he shouldn't have a crutch that encourages him to use weak spells all day. He needs to learn how to use the system comfortably before he starts making his own items. If he doesn't know how to get good use out of his spells per day he doesn't know the system well enough yet.

[sonofzeal]

The wand prices strangely but isn't overpowered. Everyone's forgetting the easiest way to get the same effect - three lvl 1 Pearls of Power, for a total of 3000 gp. That puts it way under the weapons in total cost. Granted the wand form has some benefits (doesn't require that you prep a Magic Missile of your own, doesn't require actions in between), but loses in other areas (requires a hand, needs to be drawn, can't be used for other spells). On the whole I'd say it's still underpowered compared to the weapons.

And... +2 Concentration checks and +2 uses of Bardic Music a day? Yeah, underpowered. I'd ask the DM to let it grant "Combat Casting" while worn, so the bonus is (sometimes) larger and it can be used to qualify for other things.

[Dayzgone]

Even if the amulet is only concentration i would still say that the group got a pretty solid item distribution all around.

In fact i think the bards item might be the only item worth holding on to a few lvls down the road, since its giving him 2 extra uses of bardic music. A lot of bard PrC's (assuming you guys will be doing that) have ability's that pump their spells at the cost of a bardic music use.

The rest will be replaced by better versions quickly

[Darth Grall]

Sonofzeal brought up a good point, that the wand could easily be replicated by 3 pearls of power, or 10 if he's been a good munchkin and saved up his charges to nova the full 10. But still, 10 Pearls costs 10K and as this is supposed to be a 9.5 K item... The pearls would be more versitile and over all more useful.

I don't think it's OP at all, but I don't see why he just didn't go for an eternal wand :/

[Pickford]

The greataxe is worth a level of sorcerer and infinity feats for extra slot for blades of fire every round.

The fire enchant is a standard thing, the automatically regenerating and caster level leveling magic missiles is not.

That wand is ridiculously better than the other items.

edit: I'd recommend you have some kobold sunder it (easy hit, easy destruction, wands only have like 5 hp and no hardness to speak of)

[icefractal]

The fire enchant is a standard thing, the automatically regenerating and caster level leveling magic missiles is not.But as mentioned, its value is somewhere between three Pearls of Power (3K) and ten of them (10K). Probably about 5-6K, if I had to assign a price to it. Plus I guess if the Sorcerer doesn't have Magic Missile, it acts as a Runestaff, so another 1-2K for that. Seems right about on par with the weapons (the amulet does seem a bit weak).

[Pickford]

But as mentioned, its value is somewhere between three Pearls of Power (3K) and ten of them (10K). Probably about 5-6K, if I had to assign a price to it. Plus I guess if the Sorcerer doesn't have Magic Missile, it acts as a Runestaff, so another 1-2K for that. Seems right about on par with the weapons (the amulet does seem a bit weak).

The difference being the pearl requires you to prepare and cast the spell, then you get that same spell, this wand enables the wizard to free up 3 1st level spell slots and do something completely different.

That's much better.

[ArcturusV]

I wouldn't even call the wand ridiculously better at that. It's kinda weird. But Magic Missile is hardly a broken spell.

Though it probably would have been less broken if instead of a free recharge he went old school with it and required someone to cast Magic Missile spells into the wand to recharge it. Less useful for day in, day out. Just as useful if you have a rest day or two. Actually arguably more useful in that case as you can cap out the charges much faster than 3/day.

[sonofzeal]

The difference being the pearl requires you to prepare and cast the spell, then you get that same spell, this wand enables the wizard to free up 3 1st level spell slots and do something completely different.

That's much better.
But the wand requires that you have a hand open, and that you've spent the actions to draw it. And the Pearls of Power can be used for anything - Grease, Ray of Enfeeblement, Silent Image, all that stuff which is more useful and scales with levels a lot better than Magic Missile.

That's hardly "much better". At best it's a judgement call, though my intuition says the Pearls would come out ahead in the long term.

[Angelisrafel]

I don't understand 90% of the references you guys are going at TBH. We've really only been playing a few months, and he is the first real spellcaster in the party. We do a lot of dungeons and he wants to do nothing but Cast spells, even though he has a shortbow... He complains if we don't stop to let him rest and get his spells back, and it makes things take forever x.x

[Pickford]

But the wand requires that you have a hand open, and that you've spent the actions to draw it. And the Pearls of Power can be used for anything - Grease, Ray of Enfeeblement, Silent Image, all that stuff which is more useful and scales with levels a lot better than Magic Missile.

That's hardly "much better". At best it's a judgement call, though my intuition says the Pearls would come out ahead in the long term.

Yeah, but you only get those spells again if you use them first...do you really need that many silent images? Actually come to think on it...why 'does' everyone like silent image? (always seemed pretty weak to me)

edit: To the poster above: Aha, that might explain it. Eh, I still think it's much better, but if it cuts down on the complaining about running out of spells, that's nice too. (He also might consider trying a sorceror next time)

double edit: Doh, for some reason I kept thinking the character was a wizard...how on earth is he running out of spells as a sorc?? I've gotten 'maybe' 4 casts off per encounter. (and this in a party of 4 vs 12+ enemies)

[Angelisrafel]

edit: To the poster above: Aha, that might explain it. Eh, I still think it's much better, but if it cuts down on the complaining about running out of spells, that's nice too. (He also might consider trying a sorceror next time)

He rerolled his Wiz as a sorc, only he decided to "give his wizards gold" to his sorc, doubling his gold too. He's just convinced that all he can do is cast spells and that his weapon isn't worth it.

[ArcturusV]

Angel:

Well, when we say something like "Go Nova", this is a tendency for casters to burn their spells as fast as possible in order to do a maximum amount of damage in a short amount of time. It usually means burning all your top slots in a single round/two rounds, maybe even some of the lower slots.

Like in Order of the Stick when Vaarsuvius runs into the first encounter of the day and you see him/her go "Fireball, Fireball, Maximized Fireball, Lightning Bolt, Evards Spikey Tentacles of Forced Intrusion", back to back like that. THAT is going nova. It's a big tendency for Sorcerers and newbie spellcasters. And also probably the reason he feels he needs this wand, because he burns through his spells far too quickly, and why he wants to rest all the time, because he doesn't conserve his spell resources.

There are of course other ways to play a Sorcerer. If you focus on Transmutation spells, for example, instead you end up with a Sorcerer who only casts half as many spells, or less, per fight, and gets just as much damage done. While it's flashy to cast something like Lightning Bolt, it's often more effective in terms of Spells Cast to Eventual Result to be casting even simple stuff like Enlarge Person, Bull's Strength, etc. You end up doing as much (If not more) damage, and you are helping your teammates do what they do, so they feel more relevant.

Which is the big problem being "Going Nova", is that for 1 fight it's ALL about the spellcaster, everyone else is just a witness to his awesomeness, more or less.

[sonofzeal]

Yeah, but you only get those spells again if you use them first...do you really need that many silent images?
From the Pearls, though, that could be one of each. The wand locks you in to a single spell, and a fairly mediocre one at that. Magic Missile isn't bad, but it's also pretty vanilla, whereas Pearls can be tailored to what you actually need. That's why I think they come out ahead in the long run.


Actually come to think on it...why 'does' everyone like silent image? (always seemed pretty weak to me)
You only get a save for interacting with it. The limits are your imagination. It won't help in a total hack-and-slash, but it's a seriously flexible spell at all levels until True Seeing starts being an issue.

[ArcturusV]

Silent Image?

Well... free concealment, always nice. Good for stealth, good for scouting. Can be used to reinforce a bluff against someone. Can be used for fun and pranks as well. Easily combined with level zero spells like Ghost Sound and Prestidigitation to create the effects of a higher level spell (Major Image), which is a rarity for spellcasting.

It's basically a swiss army knife that can always be useful if you are creative, and your DM isn't going to just "nope" you.

[DarkWhisper]

Sonofzeal brought up a good point, that the wand could easily be replicated by 3 pearls of power, or 10 if he's been a good munchkin and saved up his charges to nova the full 10. But still, 10 Pearls costs 10K and as this is supposed to be a 9.5 K item... The pearls would be more versitile and over all more useful.


Good approach (and a nice shortcut, see below :smallbiggrin:); basing it on Memento Magica(e) (MiC, p. 164) might be more appropriate in this case since the wand has been given to a sorcerer; the mementos are priced higher due to their greater versatility (restoring an used slot instead of restoring a used spell).

A 1st level Mementos would be 1.5k, so 4.5k for three of them or 15k for ten.

I'd put the wand's power (3 charges per day, stackable to 10 uses) to six or seven Mementos, or 9k /10.5k gold - which seems in line with the other rewards (well, except for the bard's amulet).

However, since a memento is much more versatile than the wand (allowing a choice of 2 (level 1) to 5 (level 9+) spells to choose from, a price reduction would be appropriate.

Comparing it to existing items, a Pearl of Power I would be fitting (restoring a specific 1st level spell). So 1k per slot - or about 6 to 7k for the wand...

[Malroth]

Unless he's an elf battle sorcorer his shortbow is effectively useless, Most typical sorcorer builds would only hit on a nat 20 at your level against appropiate challenges so not engaging in physical combat is fairly understandable. The general consensus seems to be that Yes the wand is the best item in that bunch but not by very much. The bardic music item is very weak in the hands of a low OP bard (music lasts until you want it to stop by default so a single use can last all day) but if you're running something like a Metamagic song Persist bardzilla an extra +2 bardic music uses can mean the difference between 2x 24 hour buffs and 4x48 hour buffs (cast on alternate days) as a lv 9 character with extra music

[TypoNinja]

I don't understand 90% of the references you guys are going at TBH. We've really only been playing a few months, and he is the first real spellcaster in the party. We do a lot of dungeons and he wants to do nothing but Cast spells, even though he has a shortbow... He complains if we don't stop to let him rest and get his spells back, and it makes things take forever x.x

Don't fall into the narcoleptic party trap, if hes novaing out he needs to learn to be less trigger happy. No 15 minute adventuring days.

Spellcasters have only one real drawback, limited resources. You get a certain number of spells a day, don't let players avoid the only real drawback to the class by taking a nap every 3 fights.

[Thomasinx]

Don't fall into the narcoleptic party trap, if hes novaing out he needs to learn to be less trigger happy. No 15 minute adventuring days.

That wand is pretty weak. Definitely not a super item.

Spellcasters have only one real drawback, limited resources. You get a certain number of spells a day, don't let players avoid the only real drawback to the class by taking a nap every 3 fights.

I dont think you can really call continuous magic-missile during combat 'novaing out'. It does a piddling amount of damage and is one of the less effective spells for its level, unless teamed with metamagic fun. The only reason to hang onto it is if you need guaranteed force damage. All in all, that wand is pretty worthless compared to the weapons. (Each weapon counts as a +2 weapon, which would cost 8000+base to make).

If you look over the course of the campaign, how many uses of that wand is he going to get? Unless he just walks around the forest hunting squirrels with it, I'd be surprised if he ever gets more than 20-30 uses out of it before he starts spending combat actions on better spells. At that rate, it would be better to just buy a level 9 wand of magic missile when he's still level 6, which would still only be 6750 gold.

Honestly I doubt the DM is conscious of it, but it's definitely better for his DMPC to be using magic missile in combat, as opposed to something that will actually matter. It's never good to outshine the players in combat.

[Aotrs Commander]

He's just convinced that all he can do is cast spells and that his weapon isn't worth it.

While the gold thing might be a bit dubious, he is the DM; but the main point stands:

He's a sorcerer.

It isn't.



I'm still interested to know how a level 6 sorcerer is running out of spells so frequently, given that if he's the only spellcaster and the fights are going on that long, I'm wondering how the heck you're handling healing. Level 1/2 yeah, you run out of spells and have to end up taking a few snap-shots with a ranged weapon (but then again, at that point, you aren't likely to be that far behind on BAB), but by level 6 he really shouldn't be.

Are you sure he's doing his number of spells right? Since he should be getting 17 spells per day (which is 17 round's worth of combat, less maybe one if he's got Mage Armour cast up every morning or something), plus another six paltry Rays of Frost or something (which is still arguably better than his bow, since D3 ranged touch attack is more likely to hit and do damage than D6 regular attack).


I dont think you can really call continuous magic-missile during combat 'novaing out'. It does a piddling amount of damage and is one of the less effective spells for its level, unless teamed with metamagic fun. The only reason to hang onto it is if you need guaranteed force damage. All in all, that wand is pretty worthless compared to the weapons. (Each weapon counts as a +2 weapon, which would cost 8000+base to make).

If you look over the course of the campaign, how many uses of that wand is he going to get? Unless he just walks around the forest hunting squirrels with it, I'd be surprised if he ever gets more than 20-30 uses out of it before he starts spending combat actions on better spells. At that rate, it would be better to just buy a level 9 wand of magic missile when he's still level 6, which would still only be 6750 gold.

Honestly I doubt the DM is conscious of it, but it's definitely better for his DMPC to be using magic missile in combat, as opposed to something that will actually matter. It's never good to outshine the players in combat.

Exactly.

[icefractal]

I don't understand 90% of the references you guys are going at TBH. We've really only been playing a few months, and he is the first real spellcaster in the party. We do a lot of dungeons and he wants to do nothing but Cast spells, even though he has a shortbow... He complains if we don't stop to let him rest and get his spells back, and it makes things take forever x.xWell yeah, Sorcerers and Wizards pretty much only cast spells. The fact that they can technically carry around a weapon does not actually make using it a viable option, unless the enemies are laughably weak. I mean, if you're a warrior, and your arms go numb and won't work the rest of the day, are you going to walk around trying to kick things to death or are you going to rest?

Also, I have to say: if you guys are being slowed down by occasionally resting - with no healer except a Bard - the enemies may be a bit on the easy side. Unless you're talking about "rest after every single battle", which a Sorcerer should really have more endurance than; at least the wand will help with that.

[Aotrs Commander]

Also, I have to say: if you guys are being slowed down by occasionally resting - with no healer except a Bard - the enemies may be a bit on the easy side. Unless you're talking about "rest after every single battle", which a Sorcerer should really have more endurance than; at least the wand will help with that.

I wonder if they're fighting dozens of bottom level goblin mooks or something. That would take a lot of rounds to kill without many area-effects while not being able to do much damage to the PCs.

[Killer Angel]

The wand is OK, i would be more upset by the starting gold thing.
That said:


But all he EVER does is cast spells.

Shouldn't he? He's a sorc., not a rogue with UMD and a bunch of scrolls. :smallconfused:

[Deadline]

He rerolled his Wiz as a sorc, only he decided to "give his wizards gold" to his sorc, doubling his gold too. He's just convinced that all he can do is cast spells and that his weapon isn't worth it.

Others have touched on this, but I wanted to emphasize it because you seem focused on it. Using his weapon is a waste of time. Against CR appropriate challenges, he'll be missing most of the time. At level 6 he's got a +3 Base attack bonus, and maybe +2 Dex? So +5 to hit? That should be several points lower than, well, anyone else in the party. His spells are his only meaningful way of contributing in combat.

Assuming he's got at least 13 Charisma (should be way more), he'll have
6 zero level spell slots, 7 1st level spell slots, 5 2nd level spell slots, and 3 3rd level spell slots. If he's burning through all of those in one or two encounters, he's overdoing it.

Still, if you guys have the book, he should look into the Reserve Feats in Complete Mage. One of those will give him a low-power magical attack he can use all day long. Then he can ditch the useless bow he's carting around and actually throw power around all day.

[killem2]

The amulet is underpowered, the wand is not. it is however immesnly more useful!

The weapons, they are basic, unless those people use those already they are kind of a bleh.

If everything but the wand is official from a book, and the wand is homebrew which it seems like, I think that is wrong. eitehr everyone gets homebrew to equal the usefulness or he gets a normal caster level 9 mm wand. 50 charges go home.