Obligatory Fighter Fix

[Kane0]

Version 3.02. I'm pretty happy with its progress so far, but feedback is always nice :smallsmile:

The Fighter

The Fighter is a front line warrior. He stands toe to toe with his enemies and trades blows that would kill lesser men in seconds. His fighting ability is derived almost entirely from discipline, training and physical prowess. The Fighter is a capable combatant in his own right but his true strength lies in his ability to adapt and contribute at all times during a fight, while still having a straightforward 'pick up and play' approach.

Starting Age: As Fighter
Starting Gold: As Fighter
Alignment: Any

HD: d10
Skills per level: 4 + Int
Class Skills: Acrobatics (3.5= Balance & Jump), Climb, Craft, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Know (Engineering, Dungeoneering, Local, History), Perception (3.5= Listen & Spot), Profession, Survival, Swim
Proficiencies: All Simple & Martial weapons, All armor and shields



Level
BAB
Fort
Ref
Will
Special
Adaptability
Bonus Feats


1
1
2
0
0
Combat Maneuver Mastery +1
1d4
-


2
2
3
0
0
Watchful Eye +1
1d4
-


3
3
3
1
1
Armsmaster +1
1d4
1


4
4
4
1
1
Armor Mastery I
1d4
1


5
5
4
1
1
Mettle
2d4
1


6
6
5
2
2
Watchful Eye +2
2d4
1


7
7
5
2
2
Armsmaster +2
2d4
2


8
8
6
2
2
Armor Mastery II
2d4
2


9
9
6
3
3
Combat Maneuver Mastery +2
3d4
2


10
10
7
3
3
Watchful Eye +3
3d4
2


11
11
7
3
3
Armsmaster +3
3d4
3


12
12
8
4
4
Armor Mastery III
3d4
3


13
13
8
4
4
Stride the Battlefield
4d4
3


14
14
9
4
4
Watchful Eye +4
4d4
3


15
15
9
5
5
Armsmaster +4
4d4
4


16
16
10
5
5
Armor Mastery IV
4d4
4


17
17
10
5
5
Combat Maneuver Mastery +3
5d4
4


18
18
11
6
6
Watchful Eye +5
5d4
4


19
19
11
6
6
Armsmaster +5
5d4
5


20
20
12
6
6
Battlemaster
5d4
5



Combat Maneuver Mastery
The fighter treats himself as one size category larger when beneficial for Grapple checks, Trip attempts, opposed strength checks, etc.
This increases to two size categories larger at level 9 and three size categories larger at level 17.
This ability does not allow the use of larger sized weapons without penalty.

Adaptability
The fighter gains extra dice at the beginning of his turn that he can choose to add to any d20 or weapon damage roll that round. Once used these dice are expended until the beginning of his next turn and any dice not used on that turn are not accumulated. Adaptability dice can be used out of combat and replenish at a rate of one die per minute.


A level 9 fighter gains 3d4 on his turn. On his first attack he opts to add 1d4 to his attack roll that barely missed, granting him a hit, which he uses his second d4 to add to damage. He does not use his third d4 in case he is forced to make a saving throw against an incoming spell but fortunately he does not have to, and he gets his full 3d4 to use on his next turn.


Fighter Bonus Feats
The Fighter gains a bonus feat from the Fighter Bonus Feat list (any feat with the [Combat] or [General] tag). The Fighter must still meet all prerequisites of these feats. Fighter Bonus Feats can be interchanged at the beginning of each day with one hour of preparation.

Watchful Eye
The Fighter gains a +1 bonus to all Initiative rolls, spot and listen checks, and checks to identify actions made during combat (such as identifying a spell being cast, Maneuver being used or class ability being activated). This bonus increases by +1 every 4 Fighter levels after 2nd.

Armsmaster
The fighter treats all non-magical weapons he wields as having an enchantment bonus equal to +1 for all purposes it would be beneficial, including overcoming DR/Magic and the enchantment bonus to attack and damage. This bonus increases by +1 every 4 levels after 3rd to a maximum of +5 at level 19.

Armor Mastery
The Fighter reduces the ACP and increases the Maximum Dexterity Bonus on any armor he wears by 1, and does not have his speed decreased by wearing armor. This bonus improves by 1 every 4 levels after 4th, to a maximum of 4 at level 16.
The fighter still takes the standard penalties when resting in medium or heavy armor.

Mettle
As Hexblade.
If you make a successful Fortitude or Will saving throw you negate the effect entirely instead of taking any reduced or partial effect.

Stride the Battlefield
The fighter is no longer subject to penalties for difficult terrain and increases his movement speed by 10'.

Battlemaster
The fighter gains a second swift action per turn, and can choose to use two swift actions to gain a second standard or move action on his turn.


All of these can be taken as Fighter Bonus Feats

Improved Adaptability
Pre-req: Adaptability class feature, BAB +4
Benefit: Increase your adaptability dice from d4s to d6s.

Adaptable Vigor
Pre-req: Adaptability class feature
Benefit: You can spend one or more of your adaptability dice as a swift action to gain temporary HP equal to 3x your adaptability dice roll. This temporary HP lasts one minute.

Adaptable Defense
Pre-req: Adaptable Vigor, Adaptability Class feature
Benefit: You can spend one or more of your adaptability dice as a swift action to gain a bonus to AC and DR/- equal to what is rolled from your adaptability dice for one round.

Shake it Off
Pre-req: Adaptable Vigor, Adaptability Class Feature
Benefit: If subject to an ongoing condition or penalty after failing a saving throw you can attempt another save at the same DC the next round by expending one adaptability die as a free action (maximum of once per round). You can add further adaptability dice to your saving throw as normal.

Adaptable Resistance
Pre-req: Adaptable Vigor, Adaptable Defence, Adaptability Class Feature
Benefit: You gain Spell Resistance equal to 10 + Fighter level + Strength Modifier.
As a swift action you can spend one or more of your Adaptability Dice to increase this by the result of your Adaptability die roll for one round.

Battlecry
Pre-req: Adaptability Class Feature
Benefit: You can expend one or more adaptability dice as a swift action to provide a bonus to attack and damage rolls to all allies within earshot for one round. The bonus equals half the amount rolled by your Adaptability dice, minimum +1.

Adaptable Opportunity
Pre-req: Adaptability Class Feature
Benefit: You can spend one or more Adaptability dice to gain extra attacks of opportunity that round equal to the number of Adaptability dice spent.
Special: This feat counts as having the Combat Reflexes feat for requirements of other feats, PrC entry, etc.

Deny Opportunity
Pre-Req: Adaptable Opportunity, Adaptability Class Feature
Benefit: You can expend one of your adaptability dice to ignore provoking attacks of opportunity from one action you take. This can only be done once per round.

Deny Escape
Pre-req: Adaptable Opportunity, Adaptability Class Feature
Benefit: You can spend one of your adaptability dice as an immediate action to make a 5' step towards an enemy that makes a 5' step to exit your threatened space.

Scathing Blow
Pre-req: Adaptability Class Feature, BAB +8
Benefit: You reduce all miss chance to weapon attacks by 5% per 3 Fighter levels, to a minimum of 0% miss chance.

Breach Defenses
Pre-req: Scathing Blow, Adaptability Class Feature, BAB +10
Benefit: If you hit an enemy with a weapon attack you can spend one or more adaptability dice to lower any Spell Resistance, Damage Reduction, Damage Resistance (one damage type), Fast Healing or Regeneration by half the result of your adaptability dice roll for one round, to a minimum of 0.
This feat cannot be used to affect immunities.
You cannot use this feat more than once per round.

Forge Lore
Pre-req: Fighter level 6
Benefit: You can craft magic weapons and armor as if you had the Craft Magic Weapons & Armor feat, a caster level equal to your fighter level and any required spells of a spell level equal to half your Fighter level or lower.
You must still provide materials, including time, XP & GP costs.
Eg. A level 10 fighter has a caster level of 10 and any 5th level spell or lower required to make a magic item with the Craft Magic Weapons & Armor feat.

(Joke Feat)
Yo Dawg
I heard you like feats so I made a feat to change your feats so you can feat while you feat!
Pre-req: Fighter level 11
Benefit: You can interchange your fighter bonus feats with a full round action instead of an hour's preparation.



-The whole thing has been entirely redone at least twice now.
-Adaptability has taken the front stage, a useful renewable resource that can be used to power most of the new feats included in a way similar to turn attempts with divine feats.
-Fighter bonus feats are fewer but changeable, allowing you to interchange these new feats to give them all a try or focus on feat chains like TWF.
-Other class features are basic and small number boosts to round him out and fill in dead levels. He gets treated as bigger for tripping/disarming/bullrushing/etc, treats non-magic weapons as magic, improves ACP & Max dex on armor and gets a small bonus to init, spot and listen.
-Mettle, Battlefield mastery and the capstone are the exception to this. Mettle is as Hexblade, Battlefield mastery allows you to ignore dificult terrain and the capstone gives you a second swift action per turn to use on adaptability shenanigans or to put toward an extra move or standard action on your turn.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Weapon Aptitude:
Given appropriate time to practice with a weapon (typically an hour) a fighter can exchange all weapon specific feats to key to that weapon instead, eg from Weapon Focus (Longsword) to Weapon Focus (Warhammer). These feats must still be legal, so should the fighter in the example also have Weapon Specialization (Longsword) he must also switch that to Weapon Specialization (Warhammer).
Ayup.


Strategic Combat:
The Fighter adds his Intelligence bonus (if positive) to his CMA and CMD (for 3.5, add this bonus to Grapple checks).
For 3.5, I'd also allow it to add to disarm attempts, trip attempts, and what have you. Particularly the opposed strength checks.


Adaptability:
At the beginning of the fighters turn he gains a number of d4s that he can choose to add to any d20 or weapon damage roll that turn. Once used these dice are expended until the next turn and any dice not used on that turn are not accumulated.
For example a level 13 fighter gains 3d4 on his turn. On his first attack he opts to add 1d4 to his attack roll that barely missed, granting him a hit, which he uses his second d4 to add to damage. He does not use his 3rd d4 in hopes of using it on an AoO but never gets the chance, and he gets his full 3d4 to use on his next turn.
Where have I seen that before (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=14514029#post14514029)... obviously, I approve of this.


Mettle:
On a successful Fortitude save you suffer no ill effect instead of a reduced effect.
Standard.


Delay Damage:
The Fighter can delay up to 10 HP damage he takes until the end of the round. Every 5 levels the amount of HP he can delay increases by 10, as shown on the table. Any addition to HP (including temporary HP) can either reduce the total in the delay pool or increase the Fighter's HP normally, at his option.
This fighter is a tanky fighter, eh?


Watchful Eye:
The Fighter adds +1 to his Inititative rolls, spot and listen checks, and checks to identify actions made during combat (such as identifying a spell being cast, Maneuver being used or class ability being activated). This bonus increases every 5 levels after 6th.
This scales way too slowly.


Enhanced Vigor:
Whenever the fighter gains temporary HP, he doubles the amount gained.
Ok, I guess. Not so useful without any way on his own to get temp HP, though.


Scathing Blow:
The Fighter can reduce any miss chance on an attack roll by a % up to his fighter level.
I'd go 1/2 fighter level times 5. Or even fighter level times 5. Keep the numbers nice and round, and heck, a 20th level fighter certainly ought to be able to hit you no matter what.


Improved Mettle:
As Mettle, but on a failed save you still take the reduced effect.
Eesh. This is probably too good, considering how many effects are basically Fort/Will negates, or effectively so.


Strategic Charge:
The Fighter no longer provokes attacks of opportunity when charging.
Useful, could come a lot earlier.


Improved Vigor:
Whenever the fighter gains temporary HP, he also receives the same amount as HP healed.
This ability replaces Enhanced Vigor.
See earlier comment.


Improved Scathing Blow:
As Scathing Blow, but the fighter still deals minimum possible damage on a missed attack roll. Any other effects (such as poison or the effects of a ToB Maneuver) generated by a successful attack are not applied.
Interesting. Could use some more elaboration, though.


Capstone:
The Fighter can make a full round attack as a standard action.
A useful ability, but hardly a capstone.

Conclusion: Adaptability is cool, offering plenty of out-of-combat use. Apart from that, though, he gets nothing useful outside a fight, and his within-a-fight abilities lag behind. And what happened to his bonus feats?

[Kane0]

Cheers for the input Grod.



For 3.5, I'd also allow it to add to disarm attempts, trip attempts, and what have you. Particularly the opposed strength checks.

Oops. Editing that in.



This fighter is a tanky fighter, eh?

A little. I'm looking into baking feats based off some of the fighter's class abilities. For example, a feat that grants effects similar to the Crusader's furious counterstrike ability will be keyed off the fighters delayed damage.



This scales way too slowly.

Noted and addressed.



Ok, I guess. Not so useful without any way on his own to get temp HP, though.

Another case where I plan on putting in a feat. I'm thinking spending adaptability dice to gain temp HP, but that may lead to infinite self healing at later levels.



I'd go 1/2 fighter level times 5. Or even fighter level times 5. Keep the numbers nice and round, and heck, a 20th level fighter certainly ought to be able to hit you no matter what.

Noted and edited in.



Eesh. This is probably too good, considering how many effects are basically Fort/Will negates, or effectively so.

Will saves still stop the fighter cold, it only applies to fort.
Besides, I think for the most part it's how the spells work rather than how the saves work. Evasion and reflex work well, but there is less balance between fort and will save spells.



Useful, could come a lot earlier.

Trying to stave off the uberchargers for as long as possible :smallbiggrin:



Interesting. Could use some more elaboration, though.

I'll see if i can clear it up.



A useful ability, but hardly a capstone.

I still doubt that a character will be a level 20 fighter. The other thing I was thinking was allowing additional actions, but that isn't much use. Any suggestions?



Conclusion: Adaptability is cool, offering plenty of out-of-combat use. Apart from that, though, he gets nothing useful outside a fight, and his within-a-fight abilities lag behind. And what happened to his bonus feats?


Thanks :smallsmile:
He does get a few more skills now, and watchful eye is applicable out of combat too. There are few ways to make him a more powerful combatant out of the box without magic, ToB or other means that drop his ease-of-play.
And I don't know about his feats. I guess i figured that now that he has real class abilities he doesn't need them as a crutch anymore.

[Belial_the_Leveler]

He's supposed to be capable of contributing to most situations, right? How about the following;

1) Flying enemies. Especially those flying beyond longbow range and lobbing fireballs.

2) Invisible enemies. Negating miss chance wouldn't allow a fighter to guess what square an opponent was in. Especially someone that blasted/sniped and then took a move action.

3) Mirror image if fighting casters.

4) Mind Control. Lots of creatures and casters have that, even in low levels. Your 7th lvl fighter with his +2 will save (+6 after items/buffs) will be the very first target of a Succubus with her DC 22-25 charm monster/suggestion (dc depending on feats/items). Not that he'd actually mind what the Charisma 27 demon girl will do to him, now, will he?

5) Being ignored. What does the fighter do if an enemy ignores him and goes after the squishier party members that are offensively more dangerous?

6) Contribution. How much does this fighter contribute to the group's success compared to the guy who heals and buffs everyone while debuffing the enemy and being able to fight or the guy who blasts the opposition apart in 3 rounds?


7) Noncombat ability. Every other class can do things outside of combat. Wizards use divinations/illusions/enchantments, clerics use divinations/healing/planar magic, rogue-type PCs use their skills in social, subterfuge and similar situations. What does the Fighter do in the 75% of the game time that isn't combat?

[Kane0]

Hey Belial, thanks for the input.

1) Not much, unless he is built to be an archer. A flying mount perhaps?
2) Take a guess, or try some handy mundane equipment like flour or alchemist fire. Possibly use the terrain/battlefield so he has a better chance of guessing right.
3) Watchful Eye may or may not be helpful,
4) Adaptability will be very handy here
5) Charge after them, or if you want to directly prevent this take a few feats that give you ToB Crusader lockdown capabilities.
6) Delay damage allows him to take greater risks as he can stave off some damage for a while, mettle allows him to keep on kicking and adaptability can be used for a lot of things, while Watchful Eye is handy for knowing what is going on. He should be able to find a role in the party that is not already taken, and provide more help than your average summoned creature to boot.
7) Your DM may allow you to use adaptability for almost anything requiring a roll. Otherwise just roleplay your character.

I can see what you are getting at here, but I don't believe that making the fighter perfectly capable of dealing with every challenge makes the game any more balanced than a full party of T1s. He has to have his shortcomings too, striking a fine balance where he can do well but not too well and not well at everything. I don't know what tier I'm aiming for, but high T4 sounds appropriate.

[Grod_The_Giant]

At the very least, I'd give him back some bonus feats, if not all of them, and perhaps also some lockdown abilities of his own. Also, perhaps, some upgrade to Adaptability-- not as much as my fix eventually gets up to, but a handful of d6's at 20th level is nothing to be ashamed of.

[Network]

Improved Vigor:
Whenever the fighter gains temporary HP, he also receives the same amount as HP healed.
This ability replaces Enhanced Vigor.
If it is supposed to be an inconvenient, it for sure is. Most of the abilities that grant temporary hit points also allow you to recover your health, and this would mean you loose Enhanced Vigor except for the few that don't. Still a waste if you're at full health, and the party's cleric has no reason to give you temporary hit points otherwise.

The class lacks proper customisation though, which the original class at least had. Ranged attackers would definitely benefit more from bonus feats than from Delayed Damage, Strategic Charge and Strategic Combat. The capstone needs a proper name too.

[Kane0]

Okay, I'm thinking of rehauling this slightly.
Essentially the fighter gains only a couple of the above class features as set in stone: Weapon Aptitude, Adaptability, Mettle/Improved Mettle, Full attack as standard action and one more thing, automatically confirming critical hits.
All the other feature become options to take, or choose a Fighter Bonus Feat every second level, as stock fighter. My aim is to take the stock fighter, add in adaptability and support for it while keeping the feat/option feel to customize the fighter.

[Clericzilla]

Just a few suggestions...

A: How about at level one allowing the fighter to choose between Int and Wis for his class features.

Int based would have more skills and the Wis based would have a better will save. This shows the difference between the tactical genius and the gritty veteran.

B: d4 is a bit low, how about the handy d6? "Rolling" a standard d4 is a but weird and clunky (never liked them).

C: How about a way for the Fighter to give himself temp hp? Healing isn't all about magic, you could give him something akin to ToB healing (inspiration/adrenaline ).

D: This reminds me of a Gestalt Fighter/Warblade/Rogue I played once (skills, class features, heavy armor, and a ton of feats).

E: To combat flying creatures... How about working the jump skills for fighters and stuff where it is an insane mode of transportation (I mean come on... dragons should not be able to fly due to their mass ...). I would love to see heavy armored "dragoons" jumping all over the place.

Pretty dang good job though :P

[Kane0]

A. Ideally a fighter would be both a tactician and veteran, but it would be a neat little ability to add in.

B. I'm not sure if that is pushing it a little too far numbers wise. a d4 is a little push when you need it, a d6 could be enabling you to do more than intended. Can give it a try though.

C. He can, it's one of the new feats.

D. Thats the goal, but also provide an archer or dex-fighter path for those that want it.

E. It may break the mundane nature a little too much, and I'm tempted to leave flying enemies as a 'weakness'. He can still use a ranged weapon and dump all his adaptability into damage or put it for ride checks on a flying mount of his own though. It's a matter of the right in game choices rather than me granting him a win button.

Thanks :smallsmile:

[Network]

The minimum level requirement for the fighter abilities doesn't match the levels at which he gains a new one. It makes it impossible to select a fighter ability at first level, because of the level requirement. Maybe you should switch the odd progression of Fighter Ability with the even progression of Adaptability, but that's just a thought.

[Grod_The_Giant]

B. I'm not sure if that is pushing it a little too far numbers wise. a d4 is a little push when you need it, a d6 could be enabling you to do more than intended. Can give it a try though.
I don't think it's something you need to worry too much about. 5d6 at 20th level? That's an average of 17.5. Added to damage? That's nothing. Attack? Still worse than True Strike. A saving throw? Shrugging off one save/round is no biggie for a tank-focused class like this one, at least at 20th level. Skills? Well, barring a few really silly exploits and (arguably) stealth, physical skills don't break things no matter how many points you put into them. The worst you wind up with is a bit of Bardic Knack type skillmonkeying... hardly the end of the world.



Also, FYI: Mettle is an established 3.5 ability, and it affects both Fort and Will-- see the Hexblade. I'd suggest renaming it something like "Grit" or "Iron Body."

[Kane0]

@ Network.
True, fixed up the minimum levels to match the table.

@ Grod.
Alright, I'll keep it as it for now. Tweaking numbers is often what I'm most unsure about.
Unfortunately Grit is a PF thing too, I'll check through my thesaurus and see what I can find.

[freduncio]

Dangerous Threat
Enemies of the Fighter treat all spaces within the fighter's weapon range as difficult terrain.
I guess you mean all threatened spaces by the fighter's weapon, not range. Or someone will pull out a longbow and then Boom!, 100 ft. radius difficult terrain.:smallamused:

[Clericzilla]

I guess you mean all threatened spaces by the fighter's weapon, not range. Or someone will pull out a longbow and then Boom!, 100 ft. radius difficult terrain.:smallamused:

Why not? I could see this being a level 10 feature!

Perhaps...

Level 10: 25% Bow's Range

Level 12: 50% Bow's Range

Level 14: 75% Bow's Range

Level 16: 100% Bow's Range

Level 18: 125% Bow's Range

Level 20: 150% Bow's Range

Make this a PC only ability of course... Or not :smallamused:

Give this to all Fighters so that if a fighter isn't focused with ranged feats then the Fighter can still be extremely useful :D.

I highly doubt this will be broken since there are tons of ways to stop chargers if you are a higher tier character... And for once the Fighter will be able to battlefield control without needing to be right up in an enemy's face.

[Kane0]

OK, tweaked that ability. Ranged weapons now grant threatened area and thus difficult terrain in a 20' radius, which you can increase by taking the ability more times.

[Clericzilla]

OK, tweaked that ability. Ranged weapons now grant threatened area and thus difficult terrain in a 20' radius, which you can increase by taking the ability more times.

How about with make it a 30' cone? This would cut down on the area that is threatened but still make it a pretty awesome ability. You could make it a free action to set up (meaning you have to be able to take actions) that follows the Fighter and always stays in front of him.

Also this is how you can put a bit of facing (old school) but at the same time keep it with current rules and such. :smallcool:

You could always then let the added abilities increase the cone or even shape the cone differently. Having it be a radius may be a bit strong, at least at first.

[Kane0]

I totally changed the layout and abilities again, and took a lot of leaves out of Grod's & Ziegander's books doing so. I hope you guys don't mind.

I'm liking how fast this is evolving.

Edit: Added a bunch more feats designed to be taken as fighter bonus feats, all powered by Adaptability dice in a similar way as how divine feats are powered by turn attempts.

[Kane0]

Bump.

I'm trying to make the whole lot less busy, and I have two options sitting there for the Deny Opportunity class ability. Also added another feat or two.

What do you guys think?

[Kane0]

Update: Tweaks and edits, mostly spelling/grammar and shuffling abilities. Save progression has been fixed (Fort: good, Will & Ref: Poor) and fighter bonus feats brought forward one level.

I'm working on simplifying the base chassis, so i'm making as many things as possible progressions. Mettle, Battlefield mastery and the capstone should be the only exceptions, the rest have been made into new feats.

Some (if not most) of the feats may need further balancing, but i'm still hopeful for feedback.

Edit: Bit of a thread necro, sorry. This is still an unfinished work.