In-game rewards for living a real life

[Calimehter]

So, there are a lot of things that people like in "real life" that characters get no reward for pursuing in-game. Characters will therefore not bother pursuing these things, since there is no reward in terms of XP or gold or some other measurable metric, and in fact pursuing such things are often seen as a "trap" for the DM to mess with you. For example:

- Realizing that a real life hot bath is probably better than Prestidigitation, in much the same way that a porterhouse steak is better than a protein-analagous tofu substitute, and seeking one out in spite of the 'obvious' disadvantages (removal of protective gear, interaction with the real world outside of one's Genesis bubble, etc.). Every time I hear about Prestidigitation taking the place of some creature comfort or other, I keep flashing back to a Bablyon 5 scene where the characters are longingly describing taking "real" showers instead of the "sonic" ones, even though the latter ostensibly accomplish the same thing.

- Admiration of other people

- Fulfillment of one's own personal philosophy

- Love, sex, and marriage, however seperated those may end up being at any given moment (there's an additional element of required maturity from your roleplaying group to avoid having this devolve and detract from the RP session, so maybe not the best example, but still an important one IMO).

Is there anything besides ad-hoc "roleplaying XP" that people have tried to help out characters who act out on realistic desires and dreams above and beyond killing stuff for power and profit? I remember toying with the idea of attaching negative modifiers to interacting with members of the opposite sex for PCs who had been away doing nothing but monster-hunting (i.e the "sailors on shore leave" syndrome), but never did anything with that idea. Any thoughts, or just not worth the trouble?

[Flickerdart]

Mechanical benefits are not likely to coerce people into roleplaying. If people don't want to take a bath when a spell does the trick, don't terribly want to roleplay fanboying, and don't feel like cybering with the DM, trying to make them do these things is going to be disastrous even if you somehow manage to convince them to do them.

[limejuicepowder]

Hmm I would urge extreme caution, if for no other reason than it REALLY makes the XP system insane; why would you become a better fighter/mage/sneak-thief because you went to a hot springs instead of using a spell to clean yourself?

Answer this: do you think such a system is worth it? Are you perhaps looking to provide more incentive for your players to immerse themselves, thus becoming better roleplayers?

If the answer is yes, I think this is a very ham-handed approach. IMO, good roleplaying and story is the "point" of the game, and should be sought for it's own sake. If your players are there to just smash things up (nothing inherintly wrong with this btw), you and they are playing different games. Showing them the joys and RL rewards of roleplaying though example is the way to go.

If the answer is no, why bother with a system like that in the first place? The players are already doing what they should be doing; handing them a little ad-hoc XP as a thank-you is nice, but not necessary.

[Story]

Or it might just make them play Warforged or Necropolitan.

[ArcturusV]

Well, not all of those are necessarily no mechanical reward. Like if I take the Tantric feat I could get +2 Int (untyped) for a day for having sex. Suddenly creature comforts and someone else gets mechanically important.

But honestly I tend to work these as in character rewards rather than strictly obvious mechanical stuff. Like if a character buys new clothing and such rather than just keeping the same singular outfit he's slogged through caves, sewers, dungeons, battlefields, etc, I give them bonus on things like Diplomacy (Presuming people are indifferent to you instead of hostile because you are covered in sewage and blood stained clothing. Cleaning with Prestidigitation probably doesn't fix stains that even normal cleaning wouldn't).

Similarly having appropriate attire for where you are, showing up at court in noble's clothing rather than your battlescarred armor. Unless it's a place who values the battlescarred armor more than "civilized" looks.

If you have someone you look up to, and they KNOW you look up to them (or find out), they might be inclined to do you a favor once or twice. Playing nice with NPCs can result in them helping you out in times of need. For example actually treating the innkeeper with respect and not just throwing money at his face and breaking all his stuff in barroom brawls means he'll probably go, "Hey... psst.. wake up... I saw some guys sneakin' around outside your window." instead of having to go, "Okay, the cleric dies to a Coup De Grace, and you hear his deathcry to wake you all up".

[avr]

More screen time is its own reward. If some guy wants to play the battle-hardened warrior with no human weaknesses they're likely to get less of that outside combat.

[Azoth]

I gotta say that it also depends on the character.

I have played decadent rogues that groaned after a few days in the woods about what they would give for a venison steak instead of jerky, a real bed instead of a bedroll, a heated bath instead of a cold lake, or some non-bloodsoaked clothes, who always shared his bed with some woman when in town even if he had to pay.

On the other hand I have played a wild child primal shaman who entangled the party and threatened to flamestrike anyone who tried to make him sleep indoors or bathe again.

Sometimes ya just gotta roll with punches.

[Calimehter]

why would you become a better fighter/mage/sneak-thief because you went to a hot springs instead of using a spell to clean yourself?

Probably the same way that a bookworm gets better at studying by killing things. :smallwink:

But yeah, good feedback all around. I'll probably stick with keeping the in-game rewards/interactions realistic and just assigning some small RP XP awards here and there.

[Belial_the_Leveler]

One question;

Aren't there people in real life that eschew what creature comforts they have to acheive their goals, become better at their jobs (especially athletes and warriors) or pursuit of political and monetary power?




I don't see how the exact same thing happening in a game is unrealistic. In fact, it is more realistic for people that make the amount of enemies PCs do to eschew creature comforts the way some people IRL might live in their private fortress, subterranean bunker or other bolthole and use body-doubles for everything in their social appearances.
In fact, it should be more prevalent in Fantasy; a Balor or Dragon is far smarter and wiser and skilled than any real-world enemy could hope to be while also concentrating the firepower of a small army into something with the ability to instantaneously appear anywhere on the planet.

[Greenish]

Be warned that it can get ugly fast (http://www.goblinscomic.com/01202007/).

[ArcturusV]

Yes. But also note in real life the people who give up creature comforts often don't necessarily reach the highest levels. Doors tend to open more for the guy who dresses smartly, looks good, and socializes properly than it does for the guy who spends 20 hours a day working their asses off and living like a monk, or hiding in a hole in the ground and doing all their business and human contact through remote contacts and relays. Well, typically. Right or wrong as you may consider it.

Note that I didn't suggest punishing people otherwise. Only if they did, they were rewarded. Now... this can be construed as the same thing, depending on your point of view. But lack of a Reward is not actually the same as Punishing.

Plus I think the lethality of DnD worlds is often overplayed to justify player paranoia. Yes, theoretically a dragon can just appear and wipe out an entire village at any moment. In truth it doesn't. And when it does, it's usually an unusual event like, "It's been 200 years since a dragon came and just leveled a town! Wow... crappy luck." It'd be like justifying walking around in bulletproof armor, and driving around in a version of the Popemobile every day of your life because sometimes a city will get strategically bombed/terror raided. Not often, but it happens.

I mean to adventurers it might seem like it happens all the time. But in part because they go and seek it out. Most campaigns don't really screw with "Home base" so much (Outside of the rare one time "Horde is marching on your hometown" plot). So it's not like the one moment you put down your sword and peel off your armor as you take a bath in your favorite inn and have that cute barmaid serving you drinks that a demon is going to planeshift in right on top of you.

... unless your DM is unusually dickish. But again, exception instead of rule.

I mean yeah, we can make a case for being bitter paranoid bastards as being healthy. And it might be justified. But it's not something I ever see actually being factually justified in game. Other than a few key examples like... if you go on an ocean voyage you are probably going to get attacked by pirates... twice... and a giant squid. And maybe a dragon. And get rocked by a hurricane. Something about ocean crossings makes DMs sadistic.

[SiuiS]

I've goin the secret is to not punish people for it. If you're playing a game where you have a genesis bubble, it's already too late, but players only forsake loved ones because they're an obvious leverage point. So don't leverage them.

I've seen players have sessions of in character philosophical debates, or play things like a Carroll healer who raises and sells canaries for a living. I've seen players who were murder hobos despite others trying for philosophy and character. The difference was the kin of games they were used to.

Get players used to lower power stuff. You can have a less optimized character if they are still "good enough". Set a minimum threshold for the campaign and say "this is how good you need to be, but you won't really gain much by being even better, so we can all relax" and see what happens. Some groups just don't go in for that level of immersion, period.

[Belial_the_Leveler]

It'd be like justifying walking around in bulletproof armor, and driving around in a version of the Popemobile every day of your life because sometimes a city will get strategically bombed/terror raided. Not often, but it happens.
It'd be like walking around in armor and driving around in a version of the Popemobile every day of your life because a significant percentage of an entire nation wants you dead for some reason or other. Sometimes a significant percentage of multiple nations.


Wait, aren't there people who actually do that IRL?

[navar100]

So the next time my character gets it on with the barmaid the DM & I need to step into the bedroom?

[Flickerdart]

Yes. But also note in real life the people who give up creature comforts often don't necessarily reach the highest levels. Doors tend to open more for the guy who dresses smartly, looks good, and socializes properly than it does for the guy who spends 20 hours a day working their asses off and living like a monk, or hiding in a hole in the ground and doing all their business and human contact through remote contacts and relays.
PCs don't get places by schmoozing up to people with power. PCs get places by becoming people with power. When a barbarian chieftain drops a dragon's head on your carpet, you will respect him even if he's wearing furs and hasn't had a shave in months.

For that matter, different races and cultures will consider different things to be "looking good" and "socializing properly".

[Agincourt]

Is there anything besides ad-hoc "roleplaying XP" that people have tried to help out characters who act out on realistic desires and dreams above and beyond killing stuff for power and profit? I remember toying with the idea of attaching negative modifiers to interacting with members of the opposite sex for PCs who had been away doing nothing but monster-hunting (i.e the "sailors on shore leave" syndrome), but never did anything with that idea. Any thoughts, or just not worth the trouble?

For me, the best reward a DM can give me is a smile, a laugh, or other encouragement. When I say something about how I'm going to indulge in a hot bath, a change of clothes, and a good brew as soon as I get back to town, some DMs look at me like I am trying to derail the game. The implication is clear: why are you bothering me this this mundane stuff? Other DMs love it, and it's clear from their reactions. Even if I get no experience for this stuff, I know in which game I'm going to describe my more mundane wants and desires.

[Rubik]

I've tried to engage in such things, and I must've gotten the short end of the DM stick, because I always get hosed.

Schmooze a cute and obviously interested serving boy into spending a romantic evening on the town? Assassin attack, where he was the bait.

Write in my backstory that I'm an orphan baby gold dragon whose purpose has become protecting the last clutch of his parents' eggs? They get smashed, with the last one being held for ransom so I'll have to perform evil deeds for the perpetrator.

It's happened virtually every time, under different DMs.

I hate getting shafted for trying to make my characters well-rounded, so I try to limit myself to things that can't even vaguely be justified for a screw-over.

And even then it doesn't always work.

[Slipperychicken]

- Realizing that a real life hot bath is probably better than Prestidigitation, in much the same way that a porterhouse steak is better than a protein-analagous tofu substitute, and seeking one out in spite of the 'obvious' disadvantages (removal of protective gear, interaction with the real world outside of one's Genesis bubble, etc.). Every time I hear about Prestidigitation taking the place of some creature comfort or other, I keep flashing back to a Bablyon 5 scene where the characters are longingly describing taking "real" showers instead of the "sonic" ones, even though the latter ostensibly accomplish the same thing.


+1 Roleplaying bonus on saving throws for 24 hours after you roleplay or somehow acknowledge or detail your character's living conditions and his feelings about it. Even if your character lives a spartan lifestyle without material comforts. Or is normally accustomed to luxury and is peeved about his current accommodations.



- Admiration of other people


Players do this OOC when the NPC is actually worthy of their respect ("This guy is totally awesome. We should hang out with him more often"). In-character admiration just makes it seem like you're brown-nosing or generally being a loser.



- Fulfillment of one's own personal philosophy


Ask players for the bare bones of the character's moral attitudes, beyond "she's a good person", or "she likes shiny-things and is a murderer".



- Love, sex, and marriage, however seperated those may end up being at any given moment (there's an additional element of required maturity from your roleplaying group to avoid having this devolve and detract from the RP session, so maybe not the best example, but still an important one IMO).


+1 Morale bonus on saving throws for 24 hours after successfully and maturely RPing encounters which demonstrate the character's commitment, lust, or passion for a person (whether dead or alive), activity, organization, faith, creed, or ideal. This allows for single characters (like a chaste monk, a spartan warrior, or a skirt-chasing bachelor), or otherwise nonsexual ones (like a robot or spirit) to gain the benefit without feeling forced to sexualize. Even something as simple as gazing into a photograph, re-reading an old letter, or making a phone call can suffice for this purpose.

[HalfQuart]

For me, the best reward a DM can give me is a smile, a laugh, or other encouragement. When I say something about how I'm going to indulge in a hot bath, a change of clothes, and a good brew as soon as I get back to town, some DMs look at me like I am trying to derail the game. The implication is clear: why are you bothering me this this mundane stuff? Other DMs love it, and it's clear from their reactions. Even if I get no experience for this stuff, I know in which game I'm going to describe my more mundane wants and desires.
I totally agree with this.

There's really no need for XP awards for this sort of thing; this kind of stuff just makes D&D more fun. Fun is its own reward.

[Shining Wrath]

Don't know if it helps, but when playing a Warforged I make fun of the others because they must sleep, eat, poop, bathe, breath, etc.

[Greenish]

Don't know if it helps, but when playing a Warforged I make fun of the others because they must sleep, eat, poop, bathe, breath, etc.http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/sharn_gallery/84575.jpg

You're why we can't have nice things. :smallannoyed:

[JusticeZero]

Hah!

When you're using Prestidigitation showers and summoned food and the like, you don't get any adventure hooks. You go to town, stick to yourself and leave uneventfully.

The one who flirts with the serving-boy and goes out for a night on the town gets attacked by an assassin, sure - but the serving-boy flanks the assassin bravely and tries to help with his puny level 0 abilities, and after the assassin is killed (The cutie jumped behind the Black Knife?? I told him to run - whatever - these assassin guys don't wear anything more than a chain shirt so full attack, TWO WEAPON SNEAK ATTACK, :haley:TCH!!) there's this dead and fully equipped assassin there to loot, and they get to deal with guards and family and stuff and the guards are saying "We saw someone with a knife like this in this case here, i'll tell you all about it", and maybe there's other rewards and such - in any case, the guys who don't do any RP stuff are "Bleah, this town is boring and we didn't get any clues" and the rogue comes back 10,000 XP and a couple of items richer with a whole lot of clues and adventure hooks and owed favors by two or three people in the town.

[Psyren]

If you have Prestidigitation, why would you bother with a bath except for luxury? Especially while out in the field? :smallconfused:

It's vainglorious and impractical. If anything, they should get roleplaying XP for doing what a mage(/psion) with the ability to clean everyone's clothes and bodies at-will - quietly and in seconds - WOULD actually do in that situation.

[Shining Wrath]

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/sharn_gallery/84575.jpg

You're why we can't have nice things. :smallannoyed:

Au contraire, as a good-aligned Warforged I *am* a "nice thing". Or at least, a pleasant Living Construct.

[Slipperychicken]

It's vainglorious and impractical. If anything, they should get roleplaying XP for doing what a mage(/psion) with the ability to clean everyone's clothes and bodies at-will - quietly and in seconds - WOULD actually do in that situation.

Charge a fee? :smallbiggrin:

[Psyren]

Charge a fee? :smallbiggrin:

To keep the rest of the party from stinking to high heaven? No, my mages* would gladly offer that service free of charge. :smalltongue:

*warforged and necropolitans notwithstanding

[Slipperychicken]

To keep the rest of the party from stinking to high heaven? No, my mages* would gladly offer that service free of charge. :smalltongue:

*warforged and necropolitans notwithstanding

Well, I would charge a fee to make people taste like candy, anyway. Imagine how awesome that would be; you could make the inside of your mouth taste like chocolate. And you could do it at-will in PF, changing the flavor on a whim, from mango, to peppermint, to strawberry...

You could even make Iron Rations taste like the finest delicacies. Definitely worth a few coppers, at least.

[Gnome Alone]

Or it might just make them play Warforged or Necropolitan.

Take a bath? Take a bath?! I'd rather be... a robot! I'd rather be dead!

[Greenish]

Well, I would charge a fee to make people taste like candy, anyway.Given the amount of creatures that already like nomming on people, that doesn't seem conductive to survival. Unless, of course, you use it on other party members. :smallamused:

[Story]

Being dead has lots of advantages in D&D, though it comes with a few major weaknesses of it's own. But an all Warforged or All Necropolitan party can trivialize 90% of the typical challenges you face.

Oh hai Mindflayer, hope you weren't planning to eat today.

[Psyren]

Given the amount of creatures that already like nomming on people, that doesn't seem conductive to survival. Unless, of course, you use it on other party members. :smallamused:

I had the same reaction, but I think he meant to say "people's food." :smalltongue:

And yes, I could reasonably see asking for a slightly larger percentage of the treasure in reward for convenience like that. Though doing it for free would just be a nice gesture.

[Marnath]

If you have Prestidigitation, why would you bother with a bath except for luxury? Especially while out in the field? :smallconfused:

It's vainglorious and impractical. If anything, they should get roleplaying XP for doing what a mage(/psion) with the ability to clean everyone's clothes and bodies at-will - quietly and in seconds - WOULD actually do in that situation.

Strictly speaking, prestidigitation being able to clean people is a house-rule. The spell says it can clean items. No mention of creatures, so technically you can only wash your clothes with it.

[Sith_Happens]

Strictly speaking, prestidigitation being able to clean people is a house-rule. The spell says it can clean items. No mention of creatures, so technically you can only wash your clothes with it.

A Fighter isn't an item?:smallconfused:

[ArcturusV]

It is if they're dead. A corpse is no longer a "Creature". :smallbiggrin:

[Haluesen]

Wow, prestidigitation for the win then. :smallcool:

Honestly though I kinda see the point here. I mean it is nice to realistically roleplay just a bit, and it isn't hard to integrate into a campaign. And there can still be plenty of plot hooks in mundane situations that don't lead to screwing over players. But it shouldn't really be required, and definitely not rewarded unless it is done exceptionally- then cookies are earned for that. :smalltongue:

And @Rubik just...dang. :smalleek: I can't even possibly imagine messing with my players to that degree. Especially the dragon egg thing...that's just crappy.

All of this is making me want to start up another game...curses all you people! :smallwink:

[Rubik]

And @Rubik just...dang. :smalleek: I can't even possibly imagine messing with my players to that degree. Especially the dragon egg thing...that's just crappy.Oh, that's nothing. Same game, same DM, same character: a baby gold dragon. I used the Dragon Magazine article that gave stats and roleplaying tips for baby metallic dragons, which said that wyrmlings and other young dragons tend to act without thinking and tend to be less thoughtful and far more liable to act on impulse, so I made my gold wyrmling a Chaotic Good alignment. The DM didn't like that so he had my baby raped by a gang of hill giants.

...I quit after that.

[Flickerdart]

Well, I would charge a fee to make people taste like candy, anyway. Imagine how awesome that would be; you could make the inside of your mouth taste like chocolate. And you could do it at-will in PF, changing the flavor on a whim, from mango, to peppermint, to strawberry...

You could even make Iron Rations taste like the finest delicacies. Definitely worth a few coppers, at least.
No you can't - not only is your mouth not a pound of nonliving material, but it's also too small to draw line of effect into.

[Slipperychicken]

No you can't - not only is your mouth not a pound of nonliving material, but it's also too small to draw line of effect into.

Yeah, that does seem like an obstacle. You could be delicious as an undead :smallbiggrin: Maybe you could flavor some water you happen to be drinking, or some edible paste like peanut butter or something. Similar effect..

Maybe you could flavor a retainer or similar contrivance, then put it in your mouth.

[Flickerdart]

Maybe you could flavor a retainer or similar contrivance, then put it in your mouth.
I could see that - an oil of prestidigitation set to flavour mode would, for 25 gp, give you a flavourful calorie-free chewy snack that lasts an hour. Casting it on the cork of the oil bottle means that you don't need to carry any external bits, either. It's too expensive for average Joe peasant who wouldn't be concerned with maintaining a figure anyway, but a wealthy noblewoman with an artificer or wizard on staff could easily permit herself these things. If she has a magical education, she could get scrolls of prestidigitation for a quarter of the cost (rolled up and smoked like a cigar for maximum classiness), but conspicuous consumption probably means that the more expensive oils would be favoured by those who can afford them.

[Haluesen]

Oh, that's nothing. Same game, same DM, same character: a baby gold dragon. I used the Dragon Magazine article that gave stats and roleplaying tips for baby metallic dragons, which said that wyrmlings and other young dragons tend to act without thinking and tend to be less thoughtful and far more liable to act on impulse, so I made my gold wyrmling a Chaotic Good alignment. The DM didn't like that so he had my baby raped by a gang of hill giants.

...I quit after that.

:smalleek: Dang that is just f'ed up. You need a good DM, seriously. I only know a handful (myself included) and none of them would have subjected a player to that just because they didn't like a player's choice, or for any reason at all really. Good on you getting out of that.

[Rubik]

Yeah, that does seem like an obstacle. You could be delicious as an undead :smallbiggrin: Maybe you could flavor some water you happen to be drinking, or some edible paste like peanut butter or something. Similar effect..

Maybe you could flavor a retainer or similar contrivance, then put it in your mouth.Sell tongue-piercings which you then charge a small fee to make taste like anything you want.

"Stick out your tongue and say AAAAH!"

[Venger]

Well, not all of those are necessarily no mechanical reward. Like if I take the Tantric feat I could get +2 Int (untyped) for a day for having sex.

1) tantric gives an enhancement bonus, not an untyped bonus
2) you only need 20 minutes of sex for each +2 of the bonus (since you can take the feat a maximum of 3 times) since the writers of the boef apparently don't know what tantric sex is

[Hunter Noventa]

since the writers of the boef apparently don't know what tantric sex is

Fixed that for you.

I guess my group is lucky. Both the players and the DM enjoy taking the time to let our characters relax and do more mundane things. hell, our current campaign has contained copious amounts of PAPERWORK and we're enjoying it.