Bleach VII: "Ichigo, you're a [scrubbed]."

[Morph Bark]

Ha! Spoilered!

Previous thread can be found here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=258585).

So since this is the last arc, can we assume this will also be the last power set/upgrade Ichigo will get?

[Maugan Ra]

So since this is the last arc, can we assume this will also be the last power set/upgrade Ichigo will get?

Don't be silly. Ichigo can't do Kido yet :smalltongue:

More seriously, though, this could maybe sort-of work, if it turns out that he's just really good at being a Quincy, and thus steals the powers and Reaitsu of everything he comes in contact with.

Granted, that explanation still leaves several gaping plot holes, but less than there otherwise might have been. So, you know, one step at a time...

[thethird]

Wait, he will get a power up because he is human, and after all humanity triumphs.

[Infernally Clay]

I'm not so sure... Ichigo is in a unique position. His reiatsu was empowered using that Royal Guard technique and he is himself technically a Quincy with both Shinigami and Hollow powers. I'm pretty sure he's as close to the Spirit King right now as any being can be, so he may yet "transcend" these individual sources of power and awaken the original, pure, source. I can't think of any other reason everyone is so interested in him.

[HandofShadows]

I wonder how much of this was all planned ahead of time for Ichiogo. :smallconfused:

[Tvtyrant]

It seems like he got his hallow sealed inside him by his parents, since the hallow attacking his mom a few chapters back was clearly his long haired bull form. I wonder if it got sealed into his mother and he got it from her?

[Kaez]

For once I want to know what's going on more than ever before (last two times I felt similarly was when Ichigo was doing Jinzen, and when Genocide was using Bankai)....

Hurry up 2 weeks >.>

(Also, a flu, and now a trip to Germany... I want more than 2 chapters a month :P)

[Infernally Clay]

This isn't Nardo. :smalltongue:

As I see it, Fullbring is when the Hollow who attacks a woman leaves residual reiatsu behind which is passed onto the first child born, the child's Fullbring reflecting that Hollow's power. Under normal circumstances it'd bestow a Fullbring, but Ichigo's circumstances aren't normal - not only does being the son of a Shinigami means he's born with both Shinigami and Hollow powers but, clearly, the Hollow that attacked Masaki was a Vasto Lorde and thus its reiatsu is significantly more powerful than the usual stuff left after a Hollow attack.

So Shirosaki is more like Hollow living inside Ichigo's soul than a reflection of his own. This means Ichigo's Hollow transformations are more powerful than those Visoreds can use and might even explain what happened in Hueco Mundo.

[Turalisj]

This isn't Nardo. :smalltongue:

Not cool.


Anyway, I stand by my theory that Ichigo is somehow related to the Spirit King. Maybe the Great Houses are all descended from the king's children, and Ichigo happens to be a descendant that he particularly likes.

I would say, or she, but this is Bleach.

[thethird]

This isn't Nardo. :smalltongue:

:smalleek: What is Nardo? Other than Spanish slang for the male sexual organ.


As I see it, Fullbring is when the Hollow who attacks a woman leaves residual reiatsu behind which is passed onto the first child born, the child's Fullbring reflecting that Hollow's power. Under normal circumstances it'd bestow a Fullbring, but Ichigo's circumstances aren't normal - not only does being the son of a Shinigami means he's born with both Shinigami and Hollow powers but, clearly, the Hollow that attacked Masaki was a Vasto Lorde and thus its reiatsu is significantly more powerful than the usual stuff left after a Hollow attack.

So Shirosaki is more like Hollow living inside Ichigo's soul than a reflection of his own. This means Ichigo's Hollow transformations are more powerful than those Visoreds can use and might even explain what happened in Hueco Mundo.

That makes sense.

Also after rereading the whole fullbringer arc yep, it has "sword arms" in its second fullbring form, at first it gets a black energy cross emanating from the badge, then it becomes the shinigami clothes shrouding him and it covers part of his arm forming a sword, finally the final form is the tight skeleton looking armor (which by the way reminds me of the hollow body).

[Turalisj]

:smalleek: What is Nardo? Other than Spanish slang for the male sexual organ.

According to urbandictionary? Someone who is really really trashed.

[Fjolnir]

all we need now is Yammy showing up in a fake beard and overcoat with a letter to a private school to complete the set.

[Turalisj]

all we need now is Yammy showing up in a fake beard and overcoat with a letter to a private school to complete the set.

I.. what? Just.. what?

That.. I don't even...

Seriously, at least try to be reasonable with it. Obviously it'd be Grimmjow showing up in a blazer with a cocky grin on his face.

[DiscipleofBob]

all we need now is Yammy showing up in a fake beard and overcoat with a letter to a private school to complete the set.

It took me forever to get the reference you were making. I feel ashamed. I blame it on the fever headache.

But now that I think about it... this adds a new level to hypothetical versus matches involving Ichigo.

Think about. Ichigo VS Superman. Seems one-sided until we find out Ichigo's a Kryptonian and has access to all of Superman's powers.

Ichigo VS Goku. We find out that Ichigo actually has Saiyan blood.

Ichigo VS Naruto. We find out that Ichigo is actually of the Uzumaki clan (the hair's a dead giveaway), is the host to the Pi-Tailed Beast, and has both a Sharingan and a Rinnegan.

Ichigo VS Luffy. We find out that his full name is Kurosaki D. Ichigo, and he gets some random Devil Fruit power, but one that doesn't have any actual weaknesses, and that he can use all the different kinds of Haki.

Meanwhile, in all these fights, Ishida, Chad, and Inoue eat sandwiches. That's the bulk of their contribution.

[Mando Knight]

It took me forever to get the reference you were making. I feel ashamed. I blame it on the fever headache.

"Yer a wizard, Ichigo." :smalltongue:

[Morph Bark]

Ichigo's power is basically Kirby. Except he uses it passively and it only captures the essence of an ability, rather than straight-up copying it.

...perhaps Megaman is a better analogue.

[DiscipleofBob]

Ichigo's power is basically Kirby. Except he uses it passively and it only captures the essence of an ability, rather than straight-up copying it.

...perhaps Megaman is a better analogue.

No, both require that he actually DEFEAT the target first before gaining their powers.

I'd say a closer, but still not quite accurate, analogue would be Link. Right before he fights the boss, he somehow gets the power upgrade necessary to defeat them.

Hell, Inoue can even provide the annoyting faeries.

[thethird]

It is not Ichigo D. Kurosaki.

It is Ichigo M. S. Kurosaki. Sue, Mary Sue.

[Turalisj]

No, both require that he actually DEFEAT the target first before gaining their powers.

I'd say a closer, but still not quite accurate, analogue would be Link. Right before he fights the boss, he somehow gets the power upgrade necessary to defeat them.

Hell, Inoue can even provide the annoying faeries.

Orihime could BE the annoying fairy.

"Ichigo! Hey, listen! Ichigo! Hey, listen!"

[ZeroNumerous]

I wonder how much of this was all planned ahead of time for Ichiogo. :smallconfused:

Knowing Kubo? My guess is about two weeks.

[Turalisj]

I bet Kubo has this playing as he draws: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4bBD5yyT-s0

[darksolitaire]

Hey Morph, nice title :smallbiggrin: But I somehow get the vibe that the [scrubbed] actually hides some insult.


Ichigo VS Luffy. We find out that his full name is Kurosaki D. Ichigo, and he gets some random Devil Fruit power, but one that doesn't have any actual weaknesses, and that he can use all the different kinds of Haki.


At this point I laughed out loud.


Orihime could BE the annoying fairy.

"Ichigo! Hey, listen! Ichigo! Hey, listen!"


Yes, but it all would be like, Kurosaki-kun! and nothing else.

[Drolyt]

Kido

What the hell is Kido? Stop deluding yourself, there are no superpowers in Bleach that don't involve swords.

[Grinner]

What the hell is Kido? Stop deluding yourself, there are no superpowers in Bleach that don't involve swords.

Really? You know when one of the Shinigami starts praying and something explodes? That's Kido.

Or were you being sarcastic?

[ZeroNumerous]

Or were you being sarcastic?

It was this one.

[VanBuren]

Really? You know when one of the Shinigami starts praying and something explodes? That's Kido.

Or were you being sarcastic?

I feel like that last part should be a dead giveaway.

YEEEEAAAAAAHHHH

[Prime32]

I note that the sword arms resemble post-Fullbring Tensa Zangetsu.

Also, it seems vaguely possible that he got the Hollow powers from his father rather than his mother, and that this Vasto Lorde will have the original Getsuga Tensho.

[Drolyt]

Really? You know when one of the Shinigami starts praying and something explodes? That's Kido.
I can't remember this ever happening. What bad guys have been defeated this way?

Or were you being sarcastic?
Maybe. :smallwink:

[Dante & Vergil]

I can't remember this ever happening. What bad guys have been defeated this way?

Barragan, though indirectly.

[Morph Bark]

No, both require that he actually DEFEAT the target first before gaining their powers.

He's defeated Quincies and Hollows before gaining their powers though. Forgot about the Fullbringers. Stabbing Rukia could technically count, too.

Curiously enough though, this does not extend to anime filler. He never gained Bount powers, for instance.

[Starwulf]

nothing to add right now, just posting so I have the thread marked ^^

[DiscipleofBob]

He's defeated Quincies and Hollows before gaining their powers though. Forgot about the Fullbringers. Stabbing Rukia could technically count, too.

Curiously enough though, this does not extend to anime filler. He never gained Bount powers, for instance.


Ichigo, Chad, and Inoue spent the whole Bount arc running around with superpowered dolls at their sides.

Didn't he? :smallamused:

[Fjolnir]

It took me forever to get the reference you were making. I feel ashamed. I blame it on the fever headache.

Meanwhile, in all these fights, Ishida, Chad, and Inoue eat sandwiches. That's the bulk of their contribution.

I thought cosplay Yammy would be better than having hagrid show up.

You are missing the one part where they each defeat a minor enemy to obtain the materials to make the sandwiches

[Frozen_Feet]

I can't remember this ever happening. What bad guys have been defeated this way?

Barragan is the only example who was dealt the killing blow with Kido.

On the flipside, Aizen used Danku to prevent himself from being defeated, and Byakuya prevent Rukia from doing assisted suicide when fighting with the sea urchin guy. So Kido has not been entirely useless.

[darksolitaire]

Renji was defeated by Kido by Byakuya. Aizen trolled captain Fox with Kido.

[jindra34]

Barragan, though indirectly.

Kinda. His defeat was more about turning his own powers against him. Kido was simply the tool used to do it.

[danzibr]

For once I want to know what's going on more than ever before (last two times I felt similarly was when Ichigo was doing Jinzen, and when Genocide was using Bankai)....
Is it bad I forgot what Jinzen was and read this thinking Jinzen was a person?

[thubby]

Renji was defeated by Kido by Byakuya. Aizen trolled captain Fox with Kido.

so ya, kido can curbstomp

[LaZodiac]

He's defeated Quincies and Hollows before gaining their powers though. Forgot about the Fullbringers. Stabbing Rukia could technically count, too.

Curiously enough though, this does not extend to anime filler. He never gained Bount powers, for instance.

It's almost like the anime filler isn't 100% stupid or something :smalltongue:

[Valwyn]

nothing to add right now, just posting so I have the thread marked ^^

Your Zel avatar is reason enough to post. :smallbiggrin:


so ya, kido can curbstomp

Don't forget that Soi Fong and Catwoman can use Kido to power up, though I'm not sure that counts.

[Kaez]

Is it bad I forgot what Jinzen was and read this thinking Jinzen was a person?

Nope, simply because Jinzen was used once for like 7 chapters and NEVER mentioned again lol.

Jinzen sounds like it should be Aizen's half brother and slightly less effective evil mastermind....

[thubby]

Your Zel avatar is reason enough to post. :smallbiggrin:



Don't forget that Soi Fong and Catwoman can use Kido to power up, though I'm not sure that counts.

hasn't been used since they attacked each other iirc.

[Somewhere]

Though unfortunately it seems more often than not that kido curbstomps in the wrong direction.

[Infernally Clay]

Renji was defeated by Kido by Byakuya. Aizen trolled captain Fox with Kido.

Urahara beat Aizen with Kido, as well, and Ichigo trolled Aizen's Kido.

[The Troubadour]

Urahara beat Aizen with Kido, as well, and Ichigo trolled Aizen's Kido.

Byakuya defeated Ichigo with a simple level 4 Kido. And Yamamoto lost his left arm by using a sacrificial Kido against Aizen.

[Turalisj]

Nope, simply because Jinzen was used once for like 7 chapters and NEVER mentioned again lol.

Jinzen sounds like it should be Aizen's half brother and slightly less effective evil mastermind....

So a completely ineffective evil mastermind?

[VanBuren]

Nope, simply because Jinzen was used once for like 7 chapters and NEVER mentioned again lol.

Jinzen sounds like it should be Aizen's half brother and slightly less effective evil mastermind....

Jinzen is Blade Zen/Sword Meditation. We've seen Hitsugaya and Ikkaku use it in the Arrancar arc. It's about communicating with the Zanpakutō, Ichigo just used it in a special way.

[ZeroNumerous]

I dunno why you guys are talking about Ichigo like he doesn't have kido.

He frequently casts the Sword spell at his enemies.

[Hadrian_Emrys]

Sui Feng (Soifon), and Yoruichi, use Shunko in a manner akin to a feat that can be used to converts prepared spells into a buff. It is described as needing knowledge of kido in order to use it, but I'm not sure it's actually kido itself.

[LaZodiac]

I dunno why you guys are talking about Ichigo like he doesn't have kido.

He frequently casts the Sword spell at his enemies.

What's funny is that from a purely technical standpoint, that's completely true. Kido is concentration of reiatsu worked into spells. Getsuga Tenshou is just a huge amount of reiatsu slashed from a sword. It is, in effect, casting sword.

[ZeroNumerous]

What's funny is that from a purely technical standpoint, that's completely true. Kido is concentration of reiatsu worked into spells. Getsuga Tenshou is just a huge amount of reiatsu slashed from a sword. It is, in effect, casting sword.

Thank you (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DontExplainTheJoke) for explaining that.

[danzibr]

Nope, simply because Jinzen was used once for like 7 chapters and NEVER mentioned again lol.

Jinzen sounds like it should be Aizen's half brother and slightly less effective evil mastermind....
I meant to say I thought you said Ichigo was doing someone named Jinzen.

[ZeroNumerous]

I meant to say I thought you said Ichigo was doing someone named Jinzen.

I imagine that would make Bleach substantially more interesting to watch.

[LaZodiac]

Thank you (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DontExplainTheJoke) for explaining that.

I wasn't aware that, specificly, was the joke, though. I thought the joke was something else.

Sorry.

[Hadrian_Emrys]

Ichigo's energy wave is to kido what an eldritch blast is to a spell.

[ZeroNumerous]

I wasn't aware that, specificly, was the joke, though. I thought the joke was something else.

Sorry.

Don't worry about it. I was just taking a chance to pothole a TVTropes link to see how many schmucks would click it.


Ichigo's energy wave is to kido what an eldritch blast is to a spell.

If by that you mean "they're both magic", then you are correct. The end result is different, but the key component is the same. In your example, magic. In this example, Bleach's version of magic.

[Frozen_Feet]

Ichigo's energy wave is to kido what an eldritch blast is to a spell.

Does this mean Ichigo is to a Shinigami what Warlock is to a Wizard?

Because I heard an analogy where Wizard is the one who studied hard, Sorcerer was the twit who breezed through with natural talent, and Warlock was the one who gave teacher a blowjob in the coffee room to get better grades.

[thubby]

that whole line of reasoning is like arguing that someone with a model rocket can use aircraft.

not only is his sword at best the only kido he knows, he doesn't even understand the mechanics at anything beyond a rudimentary level.

[VanBuren]

that whole line of reasoning is like arguing that someone with a model rocket can use aircraft.

not only is his sword at best the only kido he knows, he doesn't even understand the mechanics at anything beyond a rudimentary level.

Yeah, but I'm willing to cut him some slack when he's had to crash course four different powersets in a two year span, when bankai alone is supposed to take ten years to master (even after you've finally managed to obtain it).

[Tenno Seremel]

Yeah, but I'm willing to cut him some slack when he's had to crash course four different powersets in a two year span, when bankai alone is supposed to take ten years to master (even after you've finally managed to obtain it).

So, Ichigo got all these templates stacked and got a few lists of special abilities, and said, this one, it looks cool and powerful. I'll use only this attack, there is no way in hell I'm going to remember all of them anyway. Passive abilities, however, are handled by DM…

[VanBuren]

So, Ichigo got all these templates stacked and got a few lists of special abilities, and said, this one, it looks cool and powerful. I'll use only this attack, there is no way in hell I'm going to remember all of them anyway. Passive abilities, however, are handled by DM…

"So wait, you're telling me that all these bonuses stack?"

"Well, I mean, I guess. I mean it's not like anyone's ever gonna have.... all of... them... I hate you."

[thubby]

Yeah, but I'm willing to cut him some slack when he's had to crash course four different powersets in a two year span, when bankai alone is supposed to take ten years to master (even after you've finally managed to obtain it).

i wouldnt say it to be disparaging, but it is a fact that he cant really use kido.

[Morph Bark]

Sui Feng (Soifon), and Yoruichi, use Shunko in a manner akin to a feat that can be used to converts prepared spells into a buff. It is described as needing knowledge of kido in order to use it, but I'm not sure it's actually kido itself.

It is. Shunkou combines kido with hand-to-hand techniques, but is not counted as a spell. Rather, it is described as conversion of kido into a pure, condensed, physically-strengthening form. It's probably only because it requires a lot of training to use it even remotely properly that it hasn't been openly taught to others by the few who know it (we know Yoruichi and Soifon know it, but presumably others before them, likely also commanders of the ninja squad, have come up with it).

Presumably it also cannot be combined with swordfighting, else it would undoubtedly have been so that Genryuusai would've told Soifon to teach others it as soon as he found out about the ability.

[darksolitaire]

It is. Shunkou combines kido with hand-to-hand techniques, but is not counted as a spell. Rather, it is described as conversion of kido into a pure, condensed, physically-strengthening form.

So basically, you sacrifice a spell kido slot in exchange for bonus modifier to unarmed strikes. Got it.

[Ramza00]

Does this mean Ichigo is to a Shinigami what Warlock is to a Wizard?

Because I heard an analogy where Wizard is the one who studied hard, Sorcerer was the twit who breezed through with natural talent, and Warlock was the one who gave teacher a blowjob in the coffee room to get better grades.

Exactly, the teacher is hot and cogs.

[KnightDisciple]

So, Ichigo got all these templates stacked and got a few lists of special abilities, and said, this one, it looks cool and powerful. I'll use only this attack, there is no way in hell I'm going to remember all of them anyway. Passive abilities, however, are handled by DM…


"So wait, you're telling me that all these bonuses stack?"

"Well, I mean, I guess. I mean it's not like anyone's ever gonna have.... all of... them... I hate you."

No, clearly what he did is find a feat or two that lets him sacrifice all the other active special abilities/attacks, to boost his base stats and the 1 attack he has left.

On top of stacking all the template bonuses, yes.

[Somewhere]

Passing along some words from someone at Arlong Park who was in the audience at Kubo's Q&A at Leipzig Book Fair:

http://apforums.net/showthread.php?t=36560&p=2846836&viewfull=1#post2846836
"You probably know something more about this. Among the many questions on the convention, one was about the amount of assistants of Kubo. He said that he has 4 who are mostly responsible for the background. Now, this may sound like sarcasm but it is not, why the heck does Kubo need 4 assistants for backgrounds that are mostly non-existent?
Something i also never noticed, apparently, the only thing the assistants are not allowed to draw at all are not the characters which would be my first thought but the explosions every character causes at one point because they are supposed to be characteristic for each and every character."

And a couple of posts down from that...
"Another interesting thing: Somebody in the audience asked why Shiba Kaien and Ichigo look so similar. Kubo had to speak to the German editor first, probably for 2-3 minutes before leisurely answering "that is answered in the current Japanese chapter". Other trivial information: Gin is definitely dead, both Aizen and Grimmjow? are gonna be reintroduced and will have a slightly important role. Funny thing, he was asked why he used German names for the Quincies, his answer was that Quincies are rather cold-blooded, that´s why. Was not the smartest thing to say considering that the convention was/is in Germany "

[darksolitaire]

Funny thing, he was asked why he used German names for the Quincies, his answer was that Quincies are rather cold-blooded, that´s why. Was not the smartest thing to say considering that the convention was/is in Germany "

Implying cold-blooded is an insult :smallamused: Now that I push my brain cells around, Bounts from anime filler also used German terms.

Edit: Gin is dead... :smallsigh:

[Morph Bark]

I wonder what he said in Japanese that got translated as "cold-blooded". It could've been translatable as something more easily understood as something more benign.

[LaZodiac]

So...Ichigo IS, infact, related to Shiba Kaein. Okay...so then Juha likely meant the symbolic "son".

[Somewhere]

I wonder what he said in Japanese that got translated as "cold-blooded". It could've been translatable as something more easily understood as something more benign.

One possibility comes to my mind about a more benign intent would be... well, what would the opposite of hot-blooded be? As apparently his reasoning for giving the Arrancar Spanish names is because they're 'more passionate and hot-blooded'.

[LaZodiac]

So what he's saying is that he gave the Quincy's german names since the german's are much more calm and collected, like the Quincies.

*insert picture of all the whacky ass, totally hot blooded quincy soldiers here*

Yup. I totally agree with Kubo's statement.

[Morph Bark]

In that sense, German names are pretty appropriate, though British likely would've been even better. Then again, that would mean English names, which likely would get associated with America more, plus English is already used a lot in manga and anime. Using German and Spanish was a pretty great choice of him, even if the so-called "Japanese meanings" of the names are entirely faulty and made-up.

[LaZodiac]

Using German and Spanish was a good idea. His execution was less then steller. Arrancar means, if I recall, "To Start Up".

[thethird]

Arrancar means either to start up (an engine), dig out (as in harvest), pull up, or even start out (a journey).

Yeah, Kubo's application of Spanish is certainly lacking.

[VanBuren]

Arrancar means either to start up (an engine), dig out (as in harvest), pull up, or even start out (a journey).

Yeah, Kubo's application of Spanish is certainly lacking.

I'm not sure he believes in conjugation.

[thethird]

He doesn't believe in genders either.

It is actually quite funny to hear people try Spanish, specially when they try it for the "cool" factor.

[ZeroNumerous]

I'm not sure he believes in conjugation.

Conjugation is for weaker, lesser mangaka who do not have Kubo's... charm.

[Anteros]

Who cares? I just don't bother to translate anything that I see in manga...it almost always translates into something silly even when it makes sense.

*mostly just posting to mark this thread.*

[SlyGuyMcFly]

Arrancar means either to start up (an engine), dig out (as in harvest), pull up, or even start out (a journey).

Yeah, Kubo's application of Spanish is certainly lacking.

You missed the meaning Kubo was going for and got right. To tear off.

[thethird]

Certainly, I wasn't trying to make an exhaustive list, just mentioning some of the meanings of "arrancar". It can also mean boot up and a few other things.

On not caring to translate, it is really hard when the language is one of your mother tongues, it is really hard to segregate the written word from the meaning. It is easier when it is spoken, specially when the accent is awful :smalltongue:

[SlyGuyMcFly]

On not caring to translate, it is really hard when the language is one of your mother tongues, it is really hard to segregate the written word from the meaning. It is easier when it is spoken, specially when the accent is awful :smalltongue:

Very true! When I first saw Menos Grande in the manga I thought "Less Big? What the hell, Kubo?". Took me a few minutes to twig that he meant Big Minus. :smallbiggrin:

[thethird]

That remains to date one of my funniest moments with Bleach. Chad's backstory is also really... funny I guess.

[VanBuren]

Very true! When I first saw Menos Grande in the manga I thought "Less Big? What the hell, Kubo?". Took me a few minutes to twig that he meant Big Minus. :smallbiggrin:

What would that be, like "Gran Minus"?

[Frozen_Feet]

Kubo wasn't totally off when he picked the word Arrancar (to tear, to pluck off etc.). The problem is using a verb as a substantive.

I strongly suspect Kubo uses Google translator as his foreign tongue advisor.

[darksolitaire]

Kubo wasn't totally off when he picked the word Arrancar (to tear, to pluck off etc.). The problem is using a verb as a substantive.

I strongly suspect Kubo uses Google translator as his foreign tongue advisor.

Kubo's editor isn't off the hook either :smallamused:

...they do have editors?

[LaZodiac]

Kubo wasn't totally off when he picked the word Arrancar (to tear, to pluck off etc.). The problem is using a verb as a substantive.

I strongly suspect Kubo uses Google translator as his foreign tongue advisor.

This, basically. Arrancar could of been used as like, a term for the PROCESS of becoming one who has torn off their mask, but not the organization itself.


Kubo's editor isn't off the hook either :smallamused:

...they do have editors?


They do. I feel really bad for Bleach's editor.

[SlyGuyMcFly]

What would that be, like "Gran Minus"?

Menos Grande is actually correct, but ambiguous due to how adjectives work in Spanish (that and menos meaning both less and minus). Gran Menos would be the better way to say it.

[The Troubadour]

This, basically. Arrancar could of been used as like, a term for the PROCESS of becoming one who has torn off their mask, but not the organization itself.

Because a writer playing with language is doubleplusungood, right? :-)

[Somewhere]

Someone else put up a recap of the Q&A:
http://bleach.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Chitamachii/Tite_Kubo_in_Germany_2013

When the recap gets to the part where Kubo does some sketches, it does leave out one thing which stood out to the poster at Arlong Park:
"One thing i was really surprised about Kubo´s drawings. He is extremely fast. He drew a picture of Toshiro? and Nel in child form in like 2 minutes without even correcting anything and it looked just like in the manga. Considering that he pretty much has no backgrounds that would need any details, why does he take so long to finish one chapter i wonder? "

[LaZodiac]

Because a writer playing with language is doubleplusungood, right? :-)

I'm not saying playing with language is bad, what I'm saying is that one of the chapters in Bleach is called Super Chunky From Hell. Kubo's not playing with language, he's picking what sounds cool.

[VanBuren]

I'm not saying playing with language is bad, what I'm saying is that one of the chapters in Bleach is called Super Chunky From Hell. Kubo's not playing with language, he's picking what sounds cool.

Incidentally, I loved that chapter title. Kubo didn't care. Kubo didn't care if you cared. Kubo didn't care if you didn't care.

Also, I'm sad that the character's official name wasn't Superchunky.

EDIT: From another forum: Bleach is "kind of a seinen trapped in a shonen's body". More applicable to the manga than the anime.

EDIT2: From the interview:


Jo Kaps: "Many readers are wondering why you tend to draw minimalistic to no backgrounds and focus on the characters instead."

Kubo: "Backgrounds distract the reader from what's going on inside the character. Whenever I leave backgrounds out, this is to allow my readers to see the heart of the character."

THE HEART

[Somewhere]

Yea, so when we get a page with nothing but THE HEART, that's Kubo doing us a favour and removing all distraction so we can see THE HEART of the manga itself.
...
:smallfurious:

So what do his four assistants do all week; just the lining/inking/typical grunt work?

Anyway, as for this issue's Panda comparison...
Eh, nothing much again. Just a couple of minor quirks from me being nitpicky due to relative lack of easy material to snipe at.

Although, I finally noticed this issue that the clean up job by Panda of the raw images washes out a lot of the rain and clouds. And Masaki's hair is a lot darker than it should be, if you compare to either the raw or Viz's version.
At times, I'd say that the raw looks better, despite clearly being printed on very cheap newsprint.

Page 12, upper right panel
Viz: "You believe happiness is a requirement in a Quincy marriage."
Panda: "..thinks that weddings among Quincy should be based on love."
Original: "Kuinshii no konin ni yorokobi ga hitsuyou da to okangaenanodesune."

File this under minor surprise given how literal panda usually is. Literally it's something like 'You think that, for Quincy marriages, happiness is required'.

Middle left panel
Viz: "That.. ..kindness of yours is.. ..enough to make miss Masaki happy."
Panda: "I think.. ..that your kindness.. ..will certainly make Masaki-sama happy."
Original: "Sono bocchama no yasashisa dake de jyuubun ni Masakisama wa oyorokobi ni nararemasuyo."

Katagiri's saying that just the young master's kindness is enough to make Masaki happy. It's close, but I feel that there's just enough difference in the message being sent and tone to note this.

[KnightDisciple]

You know, the more I think on it, the more I'm not only not really satisfied with the "reveal" on Unohana's "true personality" (or that she's dead), I'm really disappointed by her Bankai.

Her shikai is a giant flying manta ray with healing spit.

Her bankai? Poorly drawn...blood? Acid? I don't even know.

This is one thing I think Hammered Down did much better; her Bankai in that fic is awesome. I mean, a five-headed fire breathing dragon? Oh yeah.

This though, this feels rushed.

[LaZodiac]

The problem is that we got, literally, the inverse of Yammamoto's bankai, in terms of explanation. Yammamoto explained every single little thing about his bankai. Unohana just grinned and used it.

[thubby]

You know, the more I think on it, the more I'm not only not really satisfied with the "reveal" on Unohana's "true personality" (or that she's dead), I'm really disappointed by her Bankai.

Her shikai is a giant flying manta ray with healing spit.

Her bankai? Poorly drawn...blood? Acid? I don't even know.

This is one thing I think Hammered Down did much better; her Bankai in that fic is awesome. I mean, a five-headed fire breathing dragon? Oh yeah.

This though, this feels rushed.

the more i think about it, the more i think it was supposed to be ink. the thing she was holding looked like a calligraphy brush.

[thubby]

Yea, so when we get a page with nothing but THE HEART, that's Kubo doing us a favour and removing all distraction so we can see THE HEART of the manga itself.
...
:smallfurious:


why is that something to be angry over?
backgrounds can make something visually noisy. even in live action it's very common to remove it from focus when the creators want you to focus on the character.

[VanBuren]

why is that something to be angry over?
backgrounds can make something visually noisy. even in live action it's very common to remove it from focus when the creators want you to focus on the character.

It's a stylistic choice, really. Honestly, I've never found myself thinking that Bleach really suffered for not always having them.

[LaZodiac]

why is that something to be angry over?
backgrounds can make something visually noisy. even in live action it's very common to remove it from focus when the creators want you to focus on the character.

That's what happens when someone who is bad at using backgrounds goes to work at it. Someone who's good at it can make backgrounds add to the expierance. Kubo's just taking the lazy way out.

[Anteros]

That's what happens when someone who is bad at using backgrounds goes to work at it. Someone who's good at it can make backgrounds add to the expierance. Kubo's just taking the lazy way out.

I emphatically disagree. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Sometimes people on this thread are negative out of habit. (and because it's become the "cool" thing to do. I don't mind valid criticism, but I wish people would stop trying to turn this into the Dominic Deegan thread.)

How long would adding a background realistically take Kubo? He's reportedly a super-fast artist, and he apparently has 4 assistants to draw things like that. It's far, far, far more likely that he made a stylistic decision rather than trying to save himself a minute or two or drawing time.

Besides, as mentioned earlier...it's something that has been around in art forever.

[VanBuren]

I emphatically disagree. I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Sometimes people on this thread are negative out of habit. (and because it's become the "cool" thing to do. I don't mind valid criticism, but I wish people would stop trying to turn this into the Dominic Deegan thread.)

How long would adding a background realistically take Kubo? He's reportedly a super-fast artist, and he apparently has 4 assistants to draw things like that. It's far, far, far more likely that he made a stylistic decision rather than trying to save himself a minute or two or drawing time.

Besides, as mentioned earlier...it's something that has been around in art forever.

I imagine if Oda decided to eschew backgrounds, people would be bending over backwards to not only defend it but to extol it. What starts off as praise or criticism based on talent eventually becomes self-sustaining and not at all based on merit.

[Somewhere]

Eschewing backgrounds so that people can focus on the characters is in itself not something I have an issue with.
But then when you deliberately put the spotlight on the art of the characters, the 'six faces' facial structure jokes and relative lack of detail go from 'haha, funny' to 'waiiiit a sec, something's off here'.

For Oda, if he gave up on backgrounds, my response would be something more along the lines of 'oh hey, guess he isn't sleeping 3 hours a day anymore'.

[VanBuren]

Eschewing backgrounds so that people can focus on the characters is in itself not something I have an issue with.
But then when you deliberately put the spotlight on the art of the characters, the 'six faces' facial structure jokes and relative lack of detail go from 'haha, funny' to 'waiiiit a sec, something's off here'.

For Oda, if he gave up on backgrounds, my response would be something more along the lines of 'oh hey, guess he isn't sleeping 3 hours a day anymore'.

It's a shame, really. The six faces thing really only started to happen as Kubo's style became more homogenized--possibly to enable his speed-drawing. That said, it doesn't seem to be terrible uncommon in anime. Dragon Ball was rife with this, for instance.

Tezuka sort of had this issue (only replace six with ~40) but he embraced it and turned into his "star system" (as in, it was like the same actors playing different parts in different series kind of thing. IIRC he even kept a list of how much each "performer" was "paid" for their performances based on character popularity)

I seem to recall Oda having an issue with it back in the day, oddly enough. Only with female characters that tended to look like Nami, though. Haven't kept up in a while, so I don't know if he ever managed to get around that or not.

[LaZodiac]

It's a shame, really. The six faces thing really only started to happen as Kubo's style became more homogenized--possibly to enable his speed-drawing. That said, it doesn't seem to be terrible uncommon in anime. Dragon Ball was rife with this, for instance.

Tezuka sort of had this issue (only replace six with ~40) but he embraced it and turned into his "star system" (as in, it was like the same actors playing different parts in different series kind of thing. IIRC he even kept a list of how much each "performer" was "paid" for their performances based on character popularity)

I seem to recall Oda having an issue with it back in the day, oddly enough. Only with female characters that tended to look like Nami, though. Haven't kept up in a while, so I don't know if he ever managed to get around that or not.

Oda's always had trouble with women, and in a way still does. The harpy lady is Nami with wings.

However, the Amazon Lilly arc is clearly a sign that he's trying to improve on that. And really, from what I recall, Nami was based off his wife. If you have a female subject to take inspiration off of that is THAT smokin', you're kind of excused for making women a bit similer.

[Somewhere]

I think that it's the other way around; Oda met his wife when she cosplayed as Nami at a Jump Festa.

[Frozen_Feet]

I think that it's the other way around; Oda met his wife when she cosplayed as Nami at a Jump Festa.

This.

Though it's been suggested that the increase in fanservice in OP is because Oda is constantly horny for his wife, and it's seeping into his drawing. :smalltongue:

[VanBuren]

This.

Though it's been suggested that the increase in fanservice in OP is because Oda is constantly horny for his wife, and it's seeping into his drawing. :smalltongue:

I can't source it, but I think it's beyond theory. I'm almost certain that Oda has said so in almost exactly those words. Which is... open, I guess? Hopefully Mrs. Oda doesn't mind everyone knowing that.

[Infernally Clay]

Getting back to Bleach (:smalltongue:), the only thing we know about Unohana's Bankai is that it kills both Unohana and her opponent by stripping everything from their bones. Her Kido was what kept her and Zaraki alive, as she said herself. The chapter didn't seem metaphorical, after all, and we know she kept killing Zaraki only to bring him back with her Kido.

I'm pretty sure Unohana isn't dead, anyway, (Byakuya was barely more than a puddle and he survived) so we may see it again with a proper explanation.

[HandofShadows]

I agree. I don't think Unohana is dead. Well, not dead yet. If she survives I think it will be the "how" that is interesting. Anyone hoping that Zaraki saves her?

[LaZodiac]

Zaraki saving Unohana would be...interesting. I'm pretty sure she's gonna be dead though.

[Turalisj]

I agree. I don't think Unohana is dead. Well, not dead yet. If she survives I think it will be the "how" that is interesting. Anyone hoping that Zaraki saves her?

Bleach seems to be slowly killing off characters, starting with the older ones.

So no, I don't think she's alive. If only because the manga is ending.

[darksolitaire]

Zaraki saving Unohana would be...interesting. I'm pretty sure she's gonna be dead though.

Bit out of character for Zaraki. Saving someone is like, exact opposite of killing them.

[Calemyr]

Bit out of character for Zaraki. Saving someone is like, exact opposite of killing them.

Only if it doesn't lead to a better fight down the road. For the sake of a good fight Zaraki has sprung people out of prison, stepped in to a fight before an ally could be killed, and spared individuals he deems likely to be more interesting in the future.

[VanBuren]

Only if it doesn't lead to a better fight down the road. For the sake of a good fight Zaraki has sprung people out of prison, stepped in to a fight before an ally could be killed, and spared individuals he deems likely to be more interesting in the future.

I got the impression that this was one of the attributes we was being trained out of in that fight, though I could be wrong.

[Somewhere]

So I just realized that Uryuu's behavior throughout the series strikes me as if Ishigrandpa never told him during their Quincy training about this Kurosaki clan of Quincies or this Masaki girl whom he had adopted into the Ishida household.

[LaZodiac]

So I just realized that Uryuu's behavior throughout the series strikes me as if Ishigrandpa never told him during their Quincy training about this Kurosaki clan of Quincies or this Masaki girl whom he had adopted into the Ishida household.

It's almost as if something happened that would make them not want to talk about it. Like say, her hitching up with a shinigami, forcing their son (Ishidad) having to go with the maid.

Alternatively, maybe her dying is the cause?

[Olinser]

You know, the more I think on it, the more I'm not only not really satisfied with the "reveal" on Unohana's "true personality" (or that she's dead), I'm really disappointed by her Bankai.

Her shikai is a giant flying manta ray with healing spit.

Her bankai? Poorly drawn...blood? Acid? I don't even know.

This is one thing I think Hammered Down did much better; her Bankai in that fic is awesome. I mean, a five-headed fire breathing dragon? Oh yeah.

This though, this feels rushed.

I thought it looked like Acid - and that was actually my secondary guess for her Zanpakuto was. If you recall, when she pulled out Minazuki, she specifically said that it's STOMACH ACID was what was healing the people.

My main guess was actually just that it was an ultra-powerful healing Bankai - something along the lines of Tsunade's Genesis Rebirth from Naruto. For those of you unfamiliar, it essentially lets her recover any wound she receives as long as her Chakra (or Reiatsu, in this case) holds out.

Either that, or there are plenty of ways that overhealing somebody is actually a TERRIBLE THING.

For example - white blood cells are a body's main defense against infection an disease. You know what happens when white blood cells multiply out of control? It's called Leukemia - and it's 100% fatal without treatment. Similarly, do you know what happens when certain cells multiply out of control? CANCER.

But sadly, that is obviously not it.

I really she isn't dead and we get an explanation of her Bankai though, to have her pull it out and die immediately would just be bad writing.

[LaZodiac]

I really she isn't dead and we get an explanation of her Bankai though, to have her pull it out and die immediately would just be bad writing.

I don't mean to come as a little harsh on this point but...

*cough*Yamamoto*cough

[VanBuren]

I don't mean to come as a little harsh on this point but...

*cough*Yamamoto*cough

Yeah, but we got a full explanation of his bankai. At this point, I think we have a more comprehensive understanding of Zanka no Tachi than any other bankai.

Well, I guess if Yamamoto is right about the way the Medalize works, then a bankai has to be completely analyzed and understood to be stolen. Which from a meta perspective mostly means that all the ones that are taken are going to be ones that Kubo's explained to us (Kōkō Gonryō Rikyū doesn't count; Chōjirō Sasakibe wasn't a character so much as a well-hidden plot device)

[Olinser]

Yeah, but we got a full explanation of his bankai. At this point, I think we have a more comprehensive understanding of Zanka no Tachi than any other bankai.

Well, I guess if Yamamoto is right about the way the Medalize works, then a bankai has to be completely analyzed and understood to be stolen. Which from a meta perspective mostly means that all the ones that are taken are going to be ones that Kubo's explained to us (Kōkō Gonryō Rikyū doesn't count; Chōjirō Sasakibe wasn't a character so much as a well-hidden plot device)

Exactly. Sure he kicked the bucket, but there is no question about what his Bankai was capable of. Also - Bach stole his Bankai, so it's an almost 100% sure bet that we're going to see it again.

[LaZodiac]

I was thinking more that Genryusai brought his bankai out and then immediately died, thus fulfilling the spirit of what was said. However, you do have a point that since we DID get an explanation, and Bach DID totally steal the crap out of it, that it's much better then Unohana's.

Untill it turns out that like, Kenpachi's sword will be the same as hers or something, he becomes leader of the fourth division instead of the 11th (and lets baldman become the new leader). That's just something I'm throwing out as a possibility.

[Olinser]

I was thinking more that Genryusai brought his bankai out and then immediately died, thus fulfilling the spirit of what was said. However, you do have a point that since we DID get an explanation, and Bach DID totally steal the crap out of it, that it's much better then Unohana's.

Untill it turns out that like, Kenpachi's sword will be the same as hers or something, he becomes leader of the fourth division instead of the 11th (and lets baldman become the new leader). That's just something I'm throwing out as a possibility.

My pet epileptic tree theory is that Yachiru (tiny Yachiru) actually is a physical manifestation of his Zanpakuto.

[LaZodiac]

My pet epileptic tree theory is that Yachiru (tiny Yachiru) actually is a physical manifestation of his Zanpakuto.

That's another one of the theories I've got running. Originally I thought the twist would be that Kenpachi was, himself, a zanpakuto. I defended this using the fact that the Phoenix dude in heaven showed us his "lovelies" which were all made out of swords.

[Morph Bark]

Zanpakuto-lovelies have given me a whole new perspective on the Iron Throne.

[LaZodiac]

I've never thought of that, but that's hilarious and I love it.

[LaZodiac]

New chapter!

...what's this, a predominantly german cultured people having an obsession over keeping the pure blooded safe and the mixed bloods killed? What subtlty!

And then we learn that Aizen was the one who wounded Isshin, thus causing him to meet Masaki and fall in love. God DAMNIT Aizen really IS behind EVERYTHING.

Also, something I noticed that should be really obvious. When we see inside the Hollow's mouth, we can see a second, human set of teeth in it's mouth. That, plus Aizen's talking about it, proves that this is a shinigami turned into a hollow. Probably.

[Olinser]

New chapter!

...what's this, a predominantly german cultured people having an obsession over keeping the pure blooded safe and the mixed bloods killed? What subtlty!

And then we learn that Aizen was the one who wounded Isshin, thus causing him to meet Masaki and fall in love. God DAMNIT Aizen really IS behind EVERYTHING.

Also, something I noticed that should be really obvious. When we see inside the Hollow's mouth, we can see a second, human set of teeth in it's mouth. That, plus Aizen's talking about it, proves that this is a shinigami turned into a hollow. Probably.

See below for Aizen's Plan:

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/36322690.jpg

http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/250x250/32205463.jpg

[thubby]

New chapter!

...what's this, a predominantly german cultured people having an obsession over keeping the pure blooded safe and the mixed bloods killed? What subtlty!

And then we learn that Aizen was the one who wounded Isshin, thus causing him to meet Masaki and fall in love. God DAMNIT Aizen really IS behind EVERYTHING.

Also, something I noticed that should be really obvious. When we see inside the Hollow's mouth, we can see a second, human set of teeth in it's mouth. That, plus Aizen's talking about it, proves that this is a shinigami turned into a hollow. Probably.

it's not a uniquely german thing you know. from dogs to royalty, the "pure blooded" have always been more valued for breeding stock.

and to be fair, they're part of a race facing extinction. preserving a pure-blooded line could be the only thing keeping quincy from being wiped off the face of the earth.

also worth note: that cloak looks an awful lot like the ones used by urahara to save the vizard.

[Kaez]

it's not a uniquely german thing you know. from dogs to royalty, the "pure blooded" have always been more valued for breeding stock.

and to be fair, they're part of a race facing extinction. preserving a pure-blooded line could be the only thing keeping quincy from being wiped off the face of the earth.

also worth note: that cloak looks an awful lot like the ones used by urahara to save the vizard.


You know, Aizen and Urahara have been in a race of intellect for a while. That being said, until we find out what time frame this is, we won't know if Urahara came up with the cloaks or if Aizen did.

I'm betting Aizen just took the idea for himself though.

Also, we learn what Engestu sorta does.... fire.... seems theres a lot of that these days XD

[HandofShadows]

New chapter!

And then we learn that Aizen was the one who wounded Isshin, thus causing him to meet Masaki and fall in love. God DAMNIT Aizen really IS behind EVERYTHING.


Seems to have been totaly an accident though. Aizen saw an oportunity and used it to his advantage.

[Prime32]

Also, something I noticed that should be really obvious. When we see inside the Hollow's mouth, we can see a second, human set of teeth in it's mouth. That, plus Aizen's talking about it, proves that this is a shinigami turned into a hollow. Probably.No, all Hollows have that.

[thubby]

You know, Aizen and Urahara have been in a race of intellect for a while. That being said, until we find out what time frame this is, we won't know if Urahara came up with the cloaks or if Aizen did.

I'm betting Aizen just took the idea for himself though.

Also, we learn what Engestu sorta does.... fire.... seems theres a lot of that these days XD


i was actually implying that he may have stolen the design from quincy.

[Anteros]

Kinda makes sense it was Aizen. Who else has the power to take down a Captain? Plus we already knew he was active at the time. Makes a lot more sense than a random vastro lorde leaving hueco mundo and wandering into town.

I thought it was a good chapter. The pure blood thing makes sense, considering that they're trying to preserve their race. Plus, we learn that Engetsu is a least somewhat different from Zangetsu. I would have argued that we already knew that based on appearance alone, but apparently some people felt that wasn't sufficient.

How sloppy is soul society that 4 captains can just leave out with no one noticing? Aren't they stated to monitor things like that?

[Kaez]

Kinda makes sense it was Aizen. Who else has the power to take down a Captain? Plus we already knew he was active at the time. Makes a lot more sense than a random vastro lorde leaving hueco mundo and wandering into town.

I thought it was a good chapter. The pure blood thing makes sense, considering that they're trying to preserve their race. Plus, we learn that Engetsu is a least somewhat different from Zangetsu. I would have argued that we already knew that based on appearance alone, but apparently some people felt that wasn't sufficient.

How sloppy is soul society that 4 captains can just leave out with no one noticing? Aren't they stated to monitor things like that?

They probably didn't notice because of the cloaks Aizen and co. were wearing. And that Aizen probably has his Shikai running on them all to make it look like he's still there.

[Olinser]

Kinda makes sense it was Aizen. Who else has the power to take down a Captain? Plus we already knew he was active at the time. Makes a lot more sense than a random vastro lorde leaving hueco mundo and wandering into town.

I thought it was a good chapter. The pure blood thing makes sense, considering that they're trying to preserve their race. Plus, we learn that Engetsu is a least somewhat different from Zangetsu. I would have argued that we already knew that based on appearance alone, but apparently some people felt that wasn't sufficient.

How sloppy is soul society that 4 captains can just leave out with no one noticing? Aren't they stated to monitor things like that?

Not necessarily, remember this is a flash back. Perhaps things like the power limiting tattoo and monitoring captains and vice captains was put in place BECAUSE of this incident.

[Anteros]

They probably didn't notice because of the cloaks Aizen and co. were wearing. And that Aizen probably has his Shikai running on them all to make it look like he's still there.

Well they didn't notice Ichigo's dad leaving either. It's kind've been a running theme that soul society is corrupt and inept, so I'm just going to assume that.

[LaZodiac]

it's not a uniquely german thing you know. from dogs to royalty, the "pure blooded" have always been more valued for breeding stock.

and to be fair, they're part of a race facing extinction. preserving a pure-blooded line could be the only thing keeping quincy from being wiped off the face of the earth.

also worth note: that cloak looks an awful lot like the ones used by urahara to save the vizard.


I know, I know, I just find it funny is all :smallamused:

And yes, that's completely true.


Seems to have been totaly an accident though. Aizen saw an oportunity and used it to his advantage.

Bah, it's Aizen. You can never be too sure.


No, all Hollows have that.

Right! Forgot! It's been awhile since we've seen an actual honest to god Hollow.


Not necessarily, remember this is a flash back. Perhaps things like the power limiting tattoo and monitoring captains and vice captains was put in place BECAUSE of this incident.

That seems completely reasonable a guess. Since Isshun is probably classified as "KIA" because of this.

[Anteros]

Seems counter-intuitive on the tattoo part. "Hey, a Captain just died in the field. We should totally limit their power in the future so they're even more vulnerable!"

[DiscipleofBob]

Seems counter-intuitive on the tattoo part. "Hey, a Captain just died in the field. We should totally limit their power in the future so they're even more vulnerable!"

I'm pretty sure the limiting of power is so they don't accidentally destroy a city with the collateral damage of their bankais.

[Olinser]

Seems counter-intuitive on the tattoo part. "Hey, a Captain just died in the field. We should totally limit their power in the future so they're even more vulnerable!"

We haven't seen what happened yet - but I think the most likely course of action is that Aizen has to explain Isshin's disappearance somehow - and he's going to pin the deaths of the Shinigami on him, say that Isshin went crazy, and claim he had to kill Isshin to stop him. Especially if Aizen throws in some nice damage to the town they are in that happened during the 'battle'.

This explains both the fall of the Shiba house (having your house head go crazy and have to be put down like a mad dog isn't exactly good for your reputation), and the reason for limiting Captains/Vice-Captains.

[thubby]

my guess is that someone is going to point out that there was a spike of power from a captain in an area followed by an overwhelmingly powerful hollow showing up and killing everyone.

we already know that spirit energy attracts hollows, limiting high powered members of the court guard squad would prevent them from being walking death magnets that endanger every civi around.
we also know that powerful spirits are bad for the humans around them. yamamoto was always in control, but he nearly crushed a vice captain with his ambient power alone when he stopped being nice.

also, if this thing is ichigos inner hollow, doesn't that make him less than 1/2 hollow? since this thing is already part hollow/part shinigami?

[Somewhere]

Say, can anybody refresh my memory on Soul Society's reaction to the disappearance of the Vizard crew back in TBTP?

---

Kubo's ToC comment for issue #18:
"Doitsu kara kikoku! Bukkufea tanoshikatta! Doitsu no fan ni iyasarete kima****a."

He has returned from Germany! He had fun at the book fair! And... something about being healed by the German fans.

[darksolitaire]

Say, can anybody refresh my memory on Soul Society's reaction to the disappearance of the Vizard crew back in TBTP?


I think that the reaction wasn't shown. We do see that Yamamoto isn't all that hostile towards Shinji when they appear in the battle of Karakura Town.

Also, picture is related to this chapter.

http://lolbot.net/pix/4130.jpg

[Morph Bark]

The only thing that bothered me about this chapter is that "echt" means "real", not "pure".

And apparently Ryuu-chan is Iron Man. But, like, with a bow.

[Olinser]

The only thing that bothered me about this chapter is that "echt" means "real", not "pure".

And apparently Ryuu-chan is Iron Man. But, like, with a bow.

Grammar Nazi?

AIZEN PLANNED IT!

[LaZodiac]

Say, can anybody refresh my memory on Soul Society's reaction to the disappearance of the Vizard crew back in TBTP?

---

Kubo's ToC comment for issue #18:
"Doitsu kara kikoku! Bukkufea tanoshikatta! Doitsu no fan ni iyasarete kima****a."

He has returned from Germany! He had fun at the book fair! And... something about being healed by the German fans.

That REMINDS me. Where can you even read Turn Back the Pendulum? I can't find it at all.


The only thing that bothered me about this chapter is that "echt" means "real", not "pure".

And apparently Ryuu-chan is Iron Man. But, like, with a bow.

My guess is that either Kubo's not really thinking about it, OR he's trying to show a message of how these guys are so self aggrandizing that only those with pure blood are even considered REAL Quincies?

[Infernally Clay]

The thing I'm most curious about is what happens... We know Masaki kills the Black Hollow, but this isn't where Isshin loses his Shinigami powers and it doesn't look like Masaki does either (and if she's strong enough to kill that thing, Grand Fisher wouldn't stand a chance against her without her losing her powers first). So can we assume this flashback is a lot longer than it seems?

On the subject of the Black Hollow, I think it "infected" Ichigo's Shinigami power. Isn't it strange how Ichigo's Zanpakuto, including its Getsuga Tensho, in Bankai is pure black? The one thing that has been made apparent from the start is that Ichigo's Hollow powers come from the same "source" as his Shinigami powers, so what if Shirosaki's very existence is due to that Hollow's reiatsu merging with Ichigo's? That'd explain why Ichigo's Hollow powers are so much stronger than they should be.

[LaZodiac]

Oh, oh! I have a terrible, horrible idea! Kaien Shiba, when he died, had his body (instead of being buried) brought to Aizen, who then experimented with Hollowfication on it. In the process of fighting the Black Hollow, who is Kaien, it is defeated, by absorbed the bother of their powers (to a degree). The mixture of purification caused by the Zanpakuto, mixed with the destruction of the Quincy powers, created a new life, a new child. This is Ichigo.

ALTERNATIVELY: Grand Fisher was MUCH more deadly then he appeared, and Isshun lost his powers when he used his Final Getsuga Tenshou on it in revenge for killing his wife and horrifically scaring his son. This had the duel properties of him losing his power, and wounding Grand Fisher enough that he's at the power we see when Ichigo fights him.

[VanBuren]

The thing I'm most curious about is what happens... We know Masaki kills the Black Hollow, but this isn't where Isshin loses his Shinigami powers and it doesn't look like Masaki does either (and if she's strong enough to kill that thing, Grand Fisher wouldn't stand a chance against her without her losing her powers first). So can we assume this flashback is a lot longer than it seems?

On the subject of the Black Hollow, I think it "infected" Ichigo's Shinigami power. Isn't it strange how Ichigo's Zanpakuto, including its Getsuga Tensho, in Bankai is pure black? The one thing that has been made apparent from the start is that Ichigo's Hollow powers come from the same "source" as his Shinigami powers, so what if Shirosaki's very existence is due to that Hollow's reiatsu merging with Ichigo's? That'd explain why Ichigo's Hollow powers are so much stronger than they should be.

Aww... I don't wanna let go of my pet theory about the "Hollow and Shinigami powers coming from the same source" being a revelation about the nature of all powers in the Bleach-verse and not something unique to Ichigo.

I hate you, Kubo. :smallfrown:

[danzibr]

The only thing that bothered me about this chapter is that "echt" means "real", not "pure".

And apparently Ryuu-chan is Iron Man. But, like, with a bow.
Haha yeah, I wonder about that armor.

The thing I'm most curious about is what happens... We know Masaki kills the Black Hollow, but this isn't where Isshin loses his Shinigami powers and it doesn't look like Masaki does either (and if she's strong enough to kill that thing, Grand Fisher wouldn't stand a chance against her without her losing her powers first). So can we assume this flashback is a lot longer than it seems?

On the subject of the Black Hollow, I think it "infected" Ichigo's Shinigami power. Isn't it strange how Ichigo's Zanpakuto, including its Getsuga Tensho, in Bankai is pure black? The one thing that has been made apparent from the start is that Ichigo's Hollow powers come from the same "source" as his Shinigami powers, so what if Shirosaki's very existence is due to that Hollow's reiatsu merging with Ichigo's? That'd explain why Ichigo's Hollow powers are so much stronger than they should be.
I'm thinking it'll be long. Either that or he's going to pack a lot of information into just a couple chapters. In any case there are a lot of questions to answer.

BUT! I don't think Masaki is in touch with her Quincy powers at all. Or she was being humble.

[Olinser]

The thing I'm most curious about is what happens... We know Masaki kills the Black Hollow, but this isn't where Isshin loses his Shinigami powers and it doesn't look like Masaki does either (and if she's strong enough to kill that thing, Grand Fisher wouldn't stand a chance against her without her losing her powers first). So can we assume this flashback is a lot longer than it seems?

On the subject of the Black Hollow, I think it "infected" Ichigo's Shinigami power. Isn't it strange how Ichigo's Zanpakuto, including its Getsuga Tensho, in Bankai is pure black? The one thing that has been made apparent from the start is that Ichigo's Hollow powers come from the same "source" as his Shinigami powers, so what if Shirosaki's very existence is due to that Hollow's reiatsu merging with Ichigo's? That'd explain why Ichigo's Hollow powers are so much stronger than they should be.

And how exactly do we 'know' that Masaki does anything of the sort? The only thing we 'know' is that Masaki was running towards Isshin when he's on the ground. Her 'saving' him could simply be her healing him after the fight.

Isshin isn't necessarily down, he's only taken one sword strike.

[Haruspex_Pariah]

I guess we can confirm that Katagiri is Uryruu's mom. She has a name, she's part Quincy...all the necessary ingredients are there. :smallamused:

As to what happens next, didn't Ryuuken's dialogue after Masaki left imply that he was going out too? Maybe that's how he met Isshin.

[Olinser]

I guess we can confirm that Katagiri is Uryruu's mom. She has a name, she's part Quincy...all the necessary ingredients are there. :smallamused:

As to what happens next, didn't Ryuuken's dialogue after Masaki left imply that he was going out too? Maybe that's how he met Isshin.

Would definitely explain why Uryruu spent so much time with his grandfather (probably Katagiri's father) rather than Ryuuken. From what his mother looked like, the second she found out about it she would have kicked Katagiri to the curb.

[VanBuren]

I know it's probably too late for a thread rename, but "Shake yo Äs Nödt, but YWACH yourself" would have been a good choice.

[Frozen_Feet]

Aww... I don't wanna let go of my pet theory about the "Hollow and Shinigami powers coming from the same source" being a revelation about the nature of all powers in the Bleach-verse and not something unique to Ichigo.

I hate you, Kubo. :smallfrown:

But they do come from the same source! They come from the heart.:smallcool:

Hollows just have theirs become a fancy mask.

[Thrawn183]

Actually, considering how similar the horns on the hollow's mask are to the ones Ichigo had when he was fighting Ulquiorra, I'm guessing this may have been a template for Ichigo. Heck, it may have even been Ichigo.

Throw in some power absorption, which we already know Aizen was experimenting with, and you have a being with a sword like Engetsu and Quincy powers.

The only question left would be how Masaki ended up his/its mother... you know, I think I'm done with this line of reasoning. Move along, nothing to see here.

[HandofShadows]

ALTERNATIVELY: Grand Fisher was MUCH more deadly then he appeared, and Isshun lost his powers when he used his Final Getsuga Tenshou on it in revenge for killing his wife and horrifically scaring his son. This had the duel properties of him losing his power, and wounding Grand Fisher enough that he's at the power we see when Ichigo fights him.

Grand Fisher did know who Isshin was when they met. (And Isshin easily took Grand Fisher out).

[Olinser]

Oh, oh! I have a terrible, horrible idea! Kaien Shiba, when he died, had his body (instead of being buried) brought to Aizen, who then experimented with Hollowfication on it. In the process of fighting the Black Hollow, who is Kaien, it is defeated, by absorbed the bother of their powers (to a degree). The mixture of purification caused by the Zanpakuto, mixed with the destruction of the Quincy powers, created a new life, a new child. This is Ichigo.

ALTERNATIVELY: Grand Fisher was MUCH more deadly then he appeared, and Isshun lost his powers when he used his Final Getsuga Tenshou on it in revenge for killing his wife and horrifically scaring his son. This had the duel properties of him losing his power, and wounding Grand Fisher enough that he's at the power we see when Ichigo fights him.

It was never stated or even implied that Isshin used his Final Getsuga Tenshou on Grand Fisher. Hell, he didn't even have to pull out his SHIKAI to one-shot an Arrancar-powered Grand Fisher.

[Frozen_Feet]

It's pretty clear Isshin and Masaki were powerless when Grand Fisher attacked. Otherwise, things would not have progressed as they did.

[LaZodiac]

It was never stated or even implied that Isshin used his Final Getsuga Tenshou on Grand Fisher. Hell, he didn't even have to pull out his SHIKAI to one-shot an Arrancar-powered Grand Fisher.

It is implied, in that Isshin lost his powers. The Final Getsuga Tenshou gets rid of your powers. Additionaly, my theory is that the final Getsuga Tenshou weakened Grand Fisher to the point where, even after Arrancaring, he was still weaker then Isshin.

Though I will note that I actually hate that Isshin killed Grand Fisher like a punk, especially because he was such a good personal villain for Ichigo.

[Infernally Clay]

And how exactly do we 'know' that Masaki does anything of the sort? The only thing we 'know' is that Masaki was running towards Isshin when he's on the ground. Her 'saving' him could simply be her healing him after the fight.

Isshin isn't necessarily down, he's only taken one sword strike.

Read it again. Isshin plainly says "How did you manage to kill that thing?"

[Olinser]

It is implied, in that Isshin lost his powers. The Final Getsuga Tenshou gets rid of your powers. Additionaly, my theory is that the final Getsuga Tenshou weakened Grand Fisher to the point where, even after Arrancaring, he was still weaker then Isshin.

Though I will note that I actually hate that Isshin killed Grand Fisher like a punk, especially because he was such a good personal villain for Ichigo.

He uses the final Getsuga Tenshou, I agree, but my point is that nowhere is it implied that he used it on Grand Fisher.

And to not kill him, but weaken him to the point that he was weaker than a pre-shikai Ichigo (meaning he was weaker than a LIMITED Vice-Captain)? That's a stretch, man.

Also - we have no idea what level of power Masaki may or may not possess at this time. It it totally possible (likely even - given her current situation), that she has no real power to speak of and that she's only valuable as breeding stock for the Kurosaki family.

It's more likely that Isshin uses the Final Getsuga Tenshou to eliminate the Vasto Lorde here and drive off Aizen - and then Masaki comes along and heals him up.

[Olinser]

Read it again. Isshin plainly says "How did you manage to kill that thing?"

Hmmm, I must have read a different translation - the one I read Isshin said, "At least that thing is dead".

[Somewhere]

If it's the panel I'm thinking of*, Isshin said 'Shikashi... aitsu wo hitori de yacchimau to wa... jouchan ittai nanimono da...?'
'But... to defeat that guy alone... what is this girl..?'

*the one immediately right of the close-up of Masaki saying "I'm Kurosaki Masaki" at the end of ch 528

[Olinser]

If it's the panel I'm thinking of*, Isshin said 'Shikashi... aitsu wo hitori de yacchimau to wa... jouchan ittai nanimono da...?'
'But... to defeat that guy alone... what is this girl..?'

*the one immediately right of the close-up of Masaki saying "I'm Kurosaki Masaki" at the end of ch 528

If that's the case (I don't speak Japanese, so I'll trust your word), then it seems likely he's talking about the Vasto Lorde.

[danzibr]

If it's the panel I'm thinking of*, Isshin said 'Shikashi... aitsu wo hitori de yacchimau to wa... jouchan ittai nanimono da...?'
'But... to defeat that guy alone... what is this girl..?'

*the one immediately right of the close-up of Masaki saying "I'm Kurosaki Masaki" at the end of ch 528
Hmm. I had no idea yacchimau could be translated as defeat. The only time I saw it before was in Breath of Fire III, saying something like, "You'll regret it."

[Infernally Clay]

Ezackly. Isshin was wounded by Aizen (and we can't forget Aizen took out several Captains, including Shinji and Kyoraku, with a single slash), meaning he couldn't continue fighting the Hollow... That Masaki pulls it off is crazy, particularly because it implies she's quite a bit stronger than your average Captain even without using Letz Stil.

[Somewhere]

Hmm. I had no idea yacchimau could be translated as defeat. The only time I saw it before was in Breath of Fire III, saying something like, "You'll regret it."

Right, I short circuited it in my head without realizing it.

Yacchimau is usually translated as to do something one regrets. I think that it's a slurring together of yatteshimau. As I understand, -teshimau makes a verb a regrettable action (or, an unintentional action), and the verb yaru is usually a casual way of saying to do. It can also be used as another way to say to kill someone. In the raw, it's just hiragana, so there's ambiguity. From the context, I interpreted the usage here to be 'to do someone in'.
If the usage was the more usual 'to do', then the sentence wouldn't really make sense. The 'aitsu wo' at the start makes 'aitsu' ('that guy') the subject of the verb 'yacchimau'. I don't think that 'to do that guy' would fit there.

Edit: Looking a bit further into this... another usage of -teshimau is to finish something completely.
Which in this particular example probably makes more sense; 'to do that guy in completely'.

[KnightDisciple]

And apparently Ryuu-chan is Iron Man. But, like, with a bow.
This is now my canon.

Also, this is how I imagine the end of this flashback going, between Isshin and Ichigo:
"No Ichigo," Isshin said. "You are The Bankai."

And then Ichigo was a Vizard.

Incidentally, I was thinking about it, and at this point the only "template" not applied to Ichigo is "Bount", and that's a filler thing. So....

[Morph Bark]

Oh, oh! I have a terrible, horrible idea! Kaien Shiba, when he died, had his body (instead of being buried) brought to Aizen, who then experimented with Hollowfication on it. In the process of fighting the Black Hollow, who is Kaien, it is defeated, by absorbed the bother of their powers (to a degree). The mixture of purification caused by the Zanpakuto, mixed with the destruction of the Quincy powers, created a new life, a new child. This is Ichigo.

It's crazy enough to be plausible, but I don't think the Kaien-Ichigo relation is that strong. Plus he already made a return as one of the faces of the Ninth Espada.

[Mando Knight]

That Masaki pulls it off is crazy, particularly because it implies she's quite a bit stronger than your average Captain even without using Letz Stil.

She's a full-blooded Quincy. In an arc where a secret group of Quincies has shown the ability to roflpwn Captains.

And since Ichigo being a Quincy is the point of the flashback, she's probably not "just" a Quincy, but a Ywach-like "super-Quincy."

[darksolitaire]

Hardly spoiler worthy stuff. But it makes you think how did the Shinigami supposedly win against Quincies in the first place. The strong ones just retreated to North Pole and alllowed rank and file to die for lulz, or are some parts of the Shinigami-Quincy war retconned? :smallconfused:

[Olinser]

Hardly spoiler worthy stuff. But it makes you think how did the Shinigami supposedly win against Quincies in the first place. The strong ones just retreated to North Pole and alllowed rank and file to die for lulz, or are some parts of the Shinigami-Quincy war retconned? :smallconfused:

My impression was that their strength is about the same it was last time, but the ability to steal Bankai is new.

Honestly most of the Captain fights we saw were pretty even or the Captain was at a bit of a disadvantage... but at Shikai level. If they were actually able to Bankai the fights would have been heavily in the Captain's favor (except maybe Soi Fon, whose Bankai isn't really that useful 1v1).

Zaraki, who is basically at Bankai level already, completely slaughtered the Quincy he fought. Yamamoto likewise 1-hit KO the Quincy that tried to jump him.

The only two that seem to be serious threats to Bankai level captains are Bach and his little blond hanger-on (who by the way, is totally the one REALLY running the show, Bach is just a front for him!)

[Anteros]

We haven't seen what happened yet - but I think the most likely course of action is that Aizen has to explain Isshin's disappearance somehow - and he's going to pin the deaths of the Shinigami on him, say that Isshin went crazy, and claim he had to kill Isshin to stop him. Especially if Aizen throws in some nice damage to the town they are in that happened during the 'battle'.

This explains both the fall of the Shiba house (having your house head go crazy and have to be put down like a mad dog isn't exactly good for your reputation), and the reason for limiting Captains/Vice-Captains.

I like this theory. It's well thought out and logical. However, since I wasn't the one who thought of it, and we're on the internet I have no choice but to rabidly and vehemently oppose it.

[Infernally Clay]

Hardly spoiler worthy stuff. But it makes you think how did the Shinigami supposedly win against Quincies in the first place. The strong ones just retreated to North Pole and alllowed rank and file to die for lulz, or are some parts of the Shinigami-Quincy war retconned? :smallconfused:

Remember what Quilge said? Quincy need Blüt to compete with a Shinigami's Bankai, but they never had that two hundred years ago when the war took place. They also had Letz Stil instead of Vollständig, meaning their only way to fight Bankai-wielding Captains on equal terms was to sacrifice their powers.

Basically, we can assume pretty much everything Quincy have access to now was specifically to prevent a repeat of what happened two hundred years ago - Vollständig, Blüt, the Medallions...

[danzibr]

Right, I short circuited it in my head without realizing it.

Yacchimau is usually translated as to do something one regrets. I think that it's a slurring together of yatteshimau. As I understand, -teshimau makes a verb a regrettable action (or, an unintentional action), and the verb yaru is usually a casual way of saying to do. It can also be used as another way to say to kill someone. In the raw, it's just hiragana, so there's ambiguity. From the context, I interpreted the usage here to be 'to do someone in'.
If the usage was the more usual 'to do', then the sentence wouldn't really make sense. The 'aitsu wo' at the start makes 'aitsu' ('that guy') the subject of the verb 'yacchimau'. I don't think that 'to do that guy' would fit there.

Edit: Looking a bit further into this... another usage of -teshimau is to finish something completely.
Which in this particular example probably makes more sense; 'to do that guy in completely'.
Ahh that makes total sense. I never realized it was a contraction, like nakya is of nakereba. Thanks.

Alright, back on topic, I wonder if there's a difference between pure Quincy and non, strength-wise. If there is then Ishida should be weaker than pures because he's the maid's son.

[Frozen_Feet]

Also, Yhwach heavily implied Gotei 13 has grown softer/weaker in the past 1000 years.

[Somewhere]

Page 15, upper right panel
Viz: "You gotta be kiddin' me.. he ain't no hollow! He fights like a Menos!"
Panda: "What the hell... that's not a hollow... that's not how a Menos fights...!!"
Original: "Joudan janeezo. Hollow janee... Menos no tatakai kata janeeka..!!"

As I understand it, janee is ja nai spoken with an accent or casual slurring. Ja nai itself being more casual form of ja arimasen, which turns a noun to the negative. So you can see how Panda can think that it's both 'not a Hollow' and 'not how a Menos fights'.
But, there is a usage for ja nai where it turns the statement into a positive instead of negative. It's sort of like ending a statement with ', isn't it' in English. I think that it's this usage because of the 'ka' at the end, which usually turns statements into questions. So it felt to me like a '(blah blah blah), isn't it?' for the latter part.

Page 16, random note!
Engetsu is the crescent moon, continuing the moon theme of Isshin and Ichigo. But, the kanji used for en here is not the one normally used in crescent moon. The en used here means sharp/sharp-pointed/sharpen. Not the en I was expecting for the wordplay here either; I would've expected the kanji for en/homura (flame/blaze). But hey, maybe sharp moon will have more significance as a name than I'd figure.

----

Ryuken talking about how the Quincies should act after the shinigami dies reminds me of something. Way back when Quincies were introduced, wasn't it stated that their proposition to Soul Society was that they, the Quincies, act as a first response to the threat of Hollows until a shinigami can get there?

[LaZodiac]

I don't quite recall what the Quincy proposition is, unfortunately, but I THINK that's correct. Anyone else remember?

Also, seeing as how, as far as we can tell, Isshin's sword is fire power based, using the fire version of en would be much more appropriate. Silly Kubo, I wonder what you're planning.

[Maugan Ra]

On the new chapter...

Yup. I can easily believe that this is Ichigo's mother. Somehow, the idea of deliberately letting your enemy hit you so that they are too close (and immobile) to dodge your next attack is... exceptionally Kurosaki.

Might also explain why their clan is nearly dead though :smalltongue:

[HandofShadows]

So Ichigo gets his "unusual" fighting style form BOTH sides of the family. :smalleek: This also very explains why Ichigo's mask looks the the way to does and his inner hollow in general. And since that hollow was made from a Soul Reaper it adds more of a twist to things. And this also cleary shows that Aizen did NOT plan for this. Hot and Clogs even showed up so this really was a good chapter IMO.

[danzibr]

So Ichigo's soul came from the one inside the Hollow?

And I wonder if Isshin uses his bankai anyway but his body can't handle it so he loses his powers.

[LaZodiac]

Boom, headshot.

Also, glad to see Masaki, for all her Orohime esque playing around, is actually as badass as Kenpachi. I'm confused why all you guys are talking about how the Hollow is Ichigo though. Yha, it has a shinigami soul, but a Quincy killed it. That soul is destroyed.

[Olinser]

Boom, headshot.

Also, glad to see Masaki, for all her Orohime esque playing around, is actually as badass as Kenpachi. I'm confused why all you guys are talking about how the Hollow is Ichigo though. Yha, it has a shinigami soul, but a Quincy killed it. That soul is destroyed.

2 possibilities:

1) The whole 'destroys the Soul' could simply be Shinigami propaganda. From what we've seen and heard, the first Shinigami v Quincy Blood War was pretty much a case of Evil vs Evil. Unohana freely admits that they were nothing but a band of thugs and killers.

What if the war started because Quincy were ABSORBING the Souls of the Hollows they killed - and were getting more powerful because of it? I could see a preemptive strike happening there - the Shinigami assault and destroy the Quincy, because they realized they might not be able to kill them if they let them get stronger.

After the war, they don't want to admit why it REALLY started, so they made up a BS story about 'upsetting the balance' to try and convince everybody that they were the good guys.

2) Could simply be Masaki's special ability. Each Quincy (except for Ishida - and even then we don't really know, it could be that he doesn't have an ability because he's very probably a half-breed) seems to have 1 unique special ability - fear, transformation, etc. Masaki's may simply be like Sternritter 'O', when she kills an enemy she absorbs it.

[HandofShadows]

I think it is something else. The Soul Reapers certainly belive that Quincies kill souls. Even Ishida belives it and he has every reason NOT to belive it. And the SS's resident mad scientist certainly acts as if he knows its the truth (and has no reason to fake it). But what if it is that Quincies don't have to destroy souls to kill a hollow, but they CHOOSE to do it?

[danzibr]

Well, okay. Supposing Ichigo's soul really was the soul of the shinigami used to make that hollow... whose? Are there any good candidates?

[LaZodiac]

Well, okay. Supposing Ichigo's soul really was the soul of the shinigami used to make that hollow... whose? Are there any good candidates?

My only guess is some fragment of Kaein survived that encounter with the Absorbing Hollow.

[Olinser]

Well, okay. Supposing Ichigo's soul really was the soul of the shinigami used to make that hollow... whose? Are there any good candidates?

From the way Tousen gets pretty miffed at the way Aizen is talking about them being useless, it would not be unreasonable to think that they used the soul of Tousen's friend (the one that had her husband kill her).

[danzibr]

From the way Tousen gets pretty miffed at the way Aizen is talking about them being useless, it would not be unreasonable to think that they used the soul of Tousen's friend (the one that had her husband kill her).
Hmm, good catch. That would be very disappointing, however.

[Morph Bark]

Hot and Clogs

:smallamused:


2 possibilities:

1) The whole 'destroys the Soul' could simply be Shinigami propaganda. From what we've seen and heard, the first Shinigami v Quincy Blood War was pretty much a case of Evil vs Evil. Unohana freely admits that they were nothing but a band of thugs and killers.

What if the war started because Quincy were ABSORBING the Souls of the Hollows they killed - and were getting more powerful because of it? I could see a preemptive strike happening there - the Shinigami assault and destroy the Quincy, because they realized they might not be able to kill them if they let them get stronger.

After the war, they don't want to admit why it REALLY started, so they made up a BS story about 'upsetting the balance' to try and convince everybody that they were the good guys.

2) Could simply be Masaki's special ability. Each Quincy (except for Ishida - and even then we don't really know, it could be that he doesn't have an ability because he's very probably a half-breed) seems to have 1 unique special ability - fear, transformation, etc. Masaki's may simply be like Sternritter 'O', when she kills an enemy she absorbs it.

Third option: due to it being made out of a shinigami's soul, it has slightly different properties, thus allowing it to survive in essence.

[Infernally Clay]

Why do people keep mentioning absorption? We had an entire arc dedicated to Fullbring, which was VERY clear on the fact that Hollows leave a trace of reiatsu behind when they attack humans but don't kill them. That reiatsu is passed onto the child if the victim was female and later becomes pregnant. The only difference with this situation is that, thanks to Isshin, Ichigo was born with Shinigami powers. Shinigami powers that were basically changed by that residual Hollow reiatsu, the "White" becoming Shirosaki (manifesting as a Hollow mask) and the "Black" changing Tensa Zangetsu (it's worth remembering that Ichigo's Bankai has a different, Cero-like, Getsuga Tensho).

[Somewhere]

Kubo's ToC comment for issue #19:
"Hisabisa ni tantou ga kawatta. Otsukaresama Onodera-san! Yoroshiku Kawashima-san!"

It's the first time in a long while that he changed editors. Thank you for your work, Onodera-san! He is in your care, Kawashima-san.

[danzibr]

Why do people keep mentioning absorption? We had an entire arc dedicated to Fullbring, which was VERY clear on the fact that Hollows leave a trace of reiatsu behind when they attack humans but don't kill them. That reiatsu is passed onto the child if the victim was female and later becomes pregnant. The only difference with this situation is that, thanks to Isshin, Ichigo was born with Shinigami powers. Shinigami powers that were basically changed by that residual Hollow reiatsu, the "White" becoming Shirosaki (manifesting as a Hollow mask) and the "Black" changing Tensa Zangetsu (it's worth remembering that Ichigo's Bankai has a different, Cero-like, Getsuga Tensho).
I suspect at this point that Isshin already got Masaki pregnant.

[The Troubadour]

It's the first time in a long while that he changed editors. Thank you for your work, Onodera-san! He is in your care, Kawashima-san.

"He"? Not "I"?
I know nothing of Japanese, but using the 3rd person there seems strange to me.

[Somewhere]

Well, I've been inconsistent in translating these ToC comments directly with the speaker as first person, or paraphrasing it with the speaker as third person, so I see why it feels off.
To be more straightforward, I should've put it as: "It's the first time in a long while that I've changed editors. Thank you for your work, Onodera-san! I am in your care, Kawashima-san"

[The Troubadour]

Ah, I see. Thanks! :-)

[Infernally Clay]

I suspect at this point that Isshin already got Masaki pregnant.

They haven't even met yet and there's such a thing as too eager! D:

[Olinser]

They haven't even met yet and there's such a thing as too eager! D:

Well on TvTropes they refer to this as Standard Hero Reward (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StandardHeroReward).

It boils down to:

Masaki saved him, so Masaki gets to ravish him. :smallbiggrin:

[Turalisj]

Well on TvTropes they refer to this as Standard Hero Reward (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StandardHeroReward).

It boils down to:

Masaki saved him, so Masaki gets to ravish him. :smallbiggrin:

*Isshin wakes up after fainting from blood loss*

Isshin: Urrgg... what happened... Wait! Where's my pants!

[danzibr]

So it looks like... perhaps... since that one zero captain dude knows every asauchi ever made (and he's indeed the creator), and so he knows every zanpakutou ever, and he made that comment about Ichigo not knowing himself, maybe Ichigo inherited Zangetsu from the shinigami's soul used to make that hollow?

Okay. So Ichigo somehow came equipped with a zanpakutou, something no shinigami does, though it wasn't until getting Rukia's powers that it manifested or something. Unless, as others said, maybe it's a Quincy weapon, though I don't think we've seen anything to support this. That is, Quincy weapons and zanpakutou are totally different, and Zangetsu certainly seems like the latter.

Hmm, I think I'm just confusing myself. So an asauchi is just a blank zanpakutou. It takes a shinigami spending time with the asauchi for the asauchi to become a zanpakutou, and the zanpakutou reflects the shinigami. So if Ichigo really did his soul from that hollow, maybe Zangetsu was exactly an older shinigami's zanpakutou.

But this doesn't explain how Ichigo's and Isshin's things are similar. Or maybe they're not as similar as we think. Still haven't seen Isshin's bankai, and the command word was burn or something, which doesn't seem fitting of Zangetsu.

[thubby]

Well on TvTropes they refer to this as Standard Hero Reward (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StandardHeroReward).

It boils down to:

Masaki saved him, so Masaki gets to ravish him. :smallbiggrin:

2 enter, 3 leave? :smallwink:

[Olinser]

So it looks like... perhaps... since that one zero captain dude knows every asauchi ever made (and he's indeed the creator), and so he knows every zanpakutou ever, and he made that comment about Ichigo not knowing himself, maybe Ichigo inherited Zangetsu from the shinigami's soul used to make that hollow?

Okay. So Ichigo somehow came equipped with a zanpakutou, something no shinigami does, though it wasn't until getting Rukia's powers that it manifested or something. Unless, as others said, maybe it's a Quincy weapon, though I don't think we've seen anything to support this. That is, Quincy weapons and zanpakutou are totally different, and Zangetsu certainly seems like the latter.

Hmm, I think I'm just confusing myself. So an asauchi is just a blank zanpakutou. It takes a shinigami spending time with the asauchi for the asauchi to become a zanpakutou, and the zanpakutou reflects the shinigami. So if Ichigo really did his soul from that hollow, maybe Zangetsu was exactly an older shinigami's zanpakutou.

But this doesn't explain how Ichigo's and Isshin's things are similar. Or maybe they're not as similar as we think. Still haven't seen Isshin's bankai, and the command word was burn or something, which doesn't seem fitting of Zangetsu.

Well, we don't really know how or where Quincy get their weapons. They might have to go through a similar process.

[ZeroNumerous]

I suspect at this point that Isshin already got Masaki pregnant.

Do we have any concrete proof that Isshin is Ichigo's father? They really don't look-a-like aside from Kubo being unable to draw more than one kind of masculine face.

How do we know Masaki isn't already pregnant with Ryuuken's child? After all, looking at Ichigo (http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120327213850/bleach/en/images/thumb/c/c4/Ichigo_Another_option.png/290px-Ichigo_Another_option.png)'s face beside Ryuuken (http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20111122224118/bleach/en/images/6/6c/Ep345RyukenIshida1.png)shows us that Ichigo looks substantially more like him than like Isshin (http://media.animevice.com/uploads/2/25307/586123-209931-21674-isshin-kurosaki_large.gif). Further, this neatly explains how he's become a Hollow-Shinigami-Quincy-Fullbringer-Lightning Warrior: He's a pure Quincy whose soul comes from a Shinigami-Hollow.

My theory: Masaki absorbs the hollow somehow, and gets hurt/screwed up/whatever else because Kubo hates writing strong females. Isshin cares for her just in time for Ryuuken to come in and be like "That's my woman, now get your hands off her". Masaki hears this, condemns his actions, then runs off with Isshin out of whatever contrived reason Kubo makes up to make me not like Masaki anymore.

Beyond all the jaded sarcasm: My point is that Ryuuken is actually Ichigo's father, and his sisters are Isshin's kids. He dotes on his own daughters, but is always a bit stand-offish to Ichigo because he doesn't know how to bond with the kid. Regardless, he ends up taking Ichigo in because he's part of Masaki, and thus Isshin loves him even if he doesn't express it well.

[Morph Bark]

Beyond all the jaded sarcasm: My point is that Ichigo is actually Ryuuken's father, and his sisters are Isshin's kids. He dotes on his own daughters, but is always a bit stand-offish to Ichigo because he doesn't know how to bond with the kid. Regardless, he ends up taking Ichigo in because he's part of Masaki, and thus Isshin loves him even if he doesn't express it well.

I like that theory.

[Frozen_Feet]

Hello again. Crossposting this from the recruitment area:


"They say that this isn't just a war anymore; it's the war. It's the last one that really matters, and the last one that will ever matter."

~ Anonymous Shinigami trooper, Killed-in-Action by Low-Level Hollow.

50 years ago, the Menos retreated. After their last great assault against Soul Society, they dropped off the map completely. They no longer assaulted either afterlife or the mortal realm. The thirteen Court Guards thought they'd struck the decisive blow against their foe and finally won their ageless feud.

As peace persisted, winds of change began blowing through the antediluvian streets of Seireitei. Seeing as no great military threat existed to threaten them, the 13 Divisions were pared down to 6. The old Captains retired to the ranks of Division 0, handing down the command to younger generations.

Sadly, the Shinigami were wrong.

They should have never become so complacent.

The Menos came back with a vengeance. They cut swathe through the Outer Districts - one of them, District 78, saw a massacre so bad it became known as the "Scarlet Garden". Once the jewel of outer Soul Society, it was reduced to a smoldering wreck. Among the casualties were two most powerful Captains remaining, as well as the venerable Suou house of minor nobles.

The commander of Gotei, Izanagi-no-Mikoto, left for Soul King's palace to seek aid from the elder Captains. He has not been seen since. His replacement, Sally Sparrow, has proven to be an ill fit for the position, and remaining Captains might have to ask her to step down. Gotei 6 is in disarray, and finding itself woefully undermanned and underequipped to face down its enemy.

Fortunately for them, the Hollow rampage has halted in its tracks. The former King of Hollows, Dainichi Nyoria, has either gone missing or been assassinated by his successor and former right-hand mand, Jehoel Yurius. Seeing this as their chance to regroup, the aged Captain of Medicine & Logistics has layed out their next goal:

Refounding of the 13 Court Guards!

Yet, while their enemy is intimidating, Hollows might not be their sole problem. How could the Hollows plan their assault unnoticed for 50 years? It seems unlikely they could've done so without inside help. There could be a traitor among their ranks... but who? And why?

Elsewhere, perhaps the most powerful mortal medium of the century has made acquitance with Jehoel Yurius. What these two devils will do is yet to be seen, but it won't be good for either the worlds of the living or those of the dead...

---

Q: So what is this?

A: BleachITP: Renewed Resolution is a freeform roleplay hosted on these forums. It's been running since the end of October 2012. It's based on an alternative take on Tite Kubo's famous manga setting. We're picking up speed, and would like to see a lot of new players in our ranks. :smallsmile:

Our OOC thread is here. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=252085)
Our IC thread is here. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=259773)
You can browse existing characters and lore here. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=255986)

Q: Okay, so what kind of characters do you need or want?

A: All kinds, of course! But more specifically, we are in need of prospecting Captains and Vice-Captains to fill all the 13 guards. At the moment of writing, we only have 6 working Divisions, and even they are often undermanned. And we're seeking to found 7 more!

Secondly, we need Hollows of all kinds! Our antagonist faction is even more lacking in manpower, ironic as they are supposed to outnumber their counterparts.

Q: So how do I apply?

A: There is a character template in the Registry (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=255986) thread. Write up a character and post it either there or here. Do note: you don't need to have 100% finished bio before you put it in the registry! Just remember to work out the kinks of your character and let other players know s/he exists before jumping into play. :smallwink: Please don't discuss characters in the registry, that's what the OOC is for.

Q: So what kind of a game can I expect?

A: Currently we're still in the build-up phase - a lot of interesting and potentially setting-altering changes are in the horizon, but we're not quite there yet. Here's a short breakdown of what the game looks like for different factions:

Shinigami: Politics! The current major plots of this faction are 1) selecting a new Commander General, 2) finding new recruits to form the new Divisions and 3) investigating the causes and reasons that lead to the "Scarlet Garden" incident and the extermination of the Suou. This is somewhat reminescent of Soul Society arc era Bleach, with its murder mystery feel.

Hollows: Boredom! I wish I was kidding, but this is how things stand. With their leadership dawdling, Espada are forced to wait and are holding arena contests for their underlings to pick worthy Fraccion. Maybe your character can spice things up a bit?

Mortals: Confusion... and, oh, school. Mortals, in our game, are in a similar situation as Ichigo was at the start of Bleach - everything is brand new and odd to them, and they might find themselves serving as unwitting pawns to other factions. They might be the force that will yet turn the tide of battle, as it's certain mortal world will not escape unscathed as the forces of afterlife clash!

I hope some of you are interested. :smallsmile: The recruitment thread itself is here. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=279537)

[ZeroNumerous]

I like that theory.

Whatever, you know what I meant.

[Olinser]

Interesting.

So if I am understanding correctly, in the newest chapter,

When Masaki defeated the Hollow, it detonating was supposed to Hollowify her, like the Vizard. This explains a lot about Ichigo.

[LaZodiac]

Interesting.

So if I am understanding correctly, in the newest chapter,

When Masaki defeated the Hollow, it detonating was supposed to Hollowify her, like the Vizard. This explains a lot about Ichigo.

I think that was the idea. Which would mean Isshin is a vizard now, apparently maybe? I have no idea. Bleach is kind of incomprehensible at times.

Only problem I actually really have with this is, if Masaki can kill THIS THING, how'd Fisher King get her?

[Olinser]

I think that was the idea. Which would mean Isshin is a vizard now, apparently maybe? I have no idea. Bleach is kind of incomprehensible at times.

Only problem I actually really have with this is, if Masaki can kill THIS THING, how'd Fisher King get her?

I understood it as MASAKI being the Vizard now.

With regards to Fisher King - Isshin lost his powers, so it's probable that Masaki did as well.

Exactly HOW that happened is anybody's guess.

It's possible that when they had Ichigo, because of the Hollow's influence, their powers drained into him and left them powerless.

[LaZodiac]

I understood it as MASAKI being the Vizard now.

With regards to Fisher King - Isshin lost his powers, so it's probable that Masaki did as well.

Exactly HOW that happened is anybody's guess.

It's possible that when they had Ichigo, because of the Hollow's influence, their powers drained into him and left them powerless.

Or, since Ichigo is a quincy mixed with shinigami mixed with all that other nasty stuff, he absorbed it all in the womb. There was still a faint trace of spiritual power left, thus why the oldest sister is able to see spirits, and the youngest isn't able to at all, more or less.

[Morph Bark]

Well, I got no words for this.

I like the little interaction of Masaki with her friends though, and Katagiri's expressions.

[Olinser]

Well, I got no words for this.

I like the little interaction of Masaki with her friends though, and Katagiri's expressions.

Katagiri is totally Ishida's mother. Who else thinks this?

[ZeroNumerous]

The more and more I see of Isshin, the more and more I'm convinced that he cannot possibly be related to Ichigo.

[Olinser]

The more and more I see of Isshin, the more and more I'm convinced that he cannot possibly be related to Ichigo.

Ichigo looks almost exactly like Kaien, who is either Isshin's brother or at least a close relative. What more proof do you need?

[ZeroNumerous]

Ichigo looks almost exactly like Kaien, who is either Isshin's brother or at least a close relative. What more proof do you need?

Aside from the fact that Kubo can't draw more than one masculine face?

Genetics simply don't work that way. For Ichigo to look so similar to Kaien he would need to be a closer relative than merely a nephew, or if Kaien isn't Isshin's brother then it's simply ludicrous to imply that he would inherit Kaien's appearance.

Comparatively: Ichigo looks like a mashup between Masaki and Ryuuken. But, again, that runs into problems with Kubo being unable to draw masculine faces.

[Morph Bark]

Aside from the fact that Kubo can't draw more than one masculine face?

Genetics simply don't work that way. For Ichigo to look so similar to Kaien he would need to be a closer relative than merely a nephew, or if Kaien isn't Isshin's brother then it's simply ludicrous to imply that he would inherit Kaien's appearance.

Comparatively: Ichigo looks like a mashup between Masaki and Ryuuken. But, again, that runs into problems with Kubo being unable to draw masculine faces.

If Kubo can't draw more than one masculine face, either there are a lot of males with feminine faces in Bleach, or he looks like both Isshin and Ryuuken, thus there being no proof of relation to one above the other.

If it comes down to personality, there are a lot of people who differ from their parents in personality, especially during early adulthood.

[LaZodiac]

I'm thinking Isshin IS actually Ichigo's father now. Urahara will probably set em up on a date or something.

[Morph Bark]

I'm thinking Isshin IS actually Ichigo's father now. Urahara will probably set em up on a date or something.

oh god I am picturing him obsessing all fangirly-like over it

[Frozen_Feet]

Younger Isshin looks quite a bit like both Kaien and Ichigo. As I look near-identical with both my uncle and my father when he was young, I have no trouble swallowing the idea. On the other hand, my father as he is now looks nothing like me, which would easily hold true for Isshin too. (Hint: it's the beard). Remember, Ichi-boy is just 17.

As much as I'd like the irony of Ichigo and Uryuu being half-brothers, everything in the comic points to Isshin being Ichigo's dad, from the beginning to the end.

[danzibr]

Of *course* Urahara's involved somehow.

[Frozen_Feet]

Hey, he is the criminal mastermind behind everything. Somehow. :smalltongue:

[Olinser]

Aside from the fact that Kubo can't draw more than one masculine face?

Genetics simply don't work that way. For Ichigo to look so similar to Kaien he would need to be a closer relative than merely a nephew, or if Kaien isn't Isshin's brother then it's simply ludicrous to imply that he would inherit Kaien's appearance.

Comparatively: Ichigo looks like a mashup between Masaki and Ryuuken. But, again, that runs into problems with Kubo being unable to draw masculine faces.

The artistry resemblence isn't the reason - the point is that numerous characters in-comic have stated flat-out that he looks like Kaien.

[Fjolnir]

Hat-n-clogs was a ridiculous inventor during his time as the second seat for the stealth division and would probably have advanced to being a squad 0 member by now if he hadn't been forced to abandon soul society during the creation of the vizards.

[LaZodiac]

Urahara is Good Guy Aizen, he's got his fingers in all the pies.

[ZeroNumerous]

If Kubo can't draw more than one masculine face, either there are a lot of males with feminine faces in Bleach, or he looks like both Isshin and Ryuuken, thus there being no proof of relation to one above the other.

If it comes down to personality, there are a lot of people who differ from their parents in personality, especially during early adulthood.

It's mostly the first one. The one masculine face Kubo draws is an upside down tear shape with the pointy chin being rather prominent.

Nonetheless, as much as I would like to blame Kubo's art: It doesn't change the fact that Isshin and Ichigo, despite apparently being related, really look nothing alike aside from the generic pointy chin. And even then: Isshin's chin is flat and broad versus the dagger hiding just beneath the skin of Ichigo's face.


The artistry resemblence isn't the reason - the point is that numerous characters in-comic have stated flat-out that he looks like Kaien.

Which points less to Isshin being the father and more to Kaien being the father. As I said before: Genetics do not work out to make you look like your uncle/random non-direct relative.

[Turalisj]

Genetics simply don't work that way. For Ichigo to look so similar to Kaien he would need to be a closer relative than merely a nephew, or if Kaien isn't Isshin's brother then it's simply ludicrous to imply that he would inherit Kaien's appearance.

My youngest brother and our second cousin look alike enough that you would think that they were twins.

So speaking from experience? Yes, it could be possible.

edit: Half my brothers don't look anything like my father either. You don't need to look like a spitting image of your father to be related to him.

[Olinser]

Urahara is Good Guy Aizen, he's got his fingers in all the pies.

Aizen planned it all.

This thread, and this discussion, were all part of Aizen's plan.

It not existing is also planned.

[LaZodiac]

Aizen planned it all.

This thread, and this discussion, were all part of Aizen's plan.

It not existing is also planned.

Well, we even learned in this chapter that things that aren't planned are explicitly planned in Aizen's plan. Things that happen that are outside the plans are just happy accidents that then become planned.

[DiscipleofBob]

Tsukishima planned it all.

This thread, and this discussion, were all part of Tsukishima's plan.

It not existing is also planned.

Fixed it for you. :smallbiggrin:

[LaZodiac]

I want Tsukishima to find Aizen, sitting in his gimp suit in prison, stab him, and then have Aizen say "Exactly as planned".

[Fjolnir]

When did this happen? Isshin left the SS before Hat-n-clogs did, and wasn't mayuri in prison prior to that?

[Mando Knight]

...What if Tsukishima is Aizen's Bankai? :smalltongue:

[Turalisj]

When did this happen? Isshin left the SS before Hat-n-clogs did, and wasn't mayuri in prison prior to that?

Isshin left AFTER. Not before. AFTER.

[LaZodiac]

...What if Tsukishima is Aizen's Bankai? :smalltongue:

Well, Fullbrings are caused by Hollows, so it's entirely possible that Aizen took a bit of his spiritual power, shoved it into a hollow, created a shinigami hollow hybrid, which then caused Tsukishima to become a Full Bringer. So that's entirely possible!

[Morph Bark]

When did this happen? Isshin left the SS before Hat-n-clogs did, and wasn't mayuri in prison prior to that?

Urahara left around a century ago. Isshin left just before Ichigo was born. Ichigo isn't over a century old. Ergo,

[HandofShadows]

Really, I wonder how much has been planned and how much the upper levels of the SS let slide or even helped with. Old Man Yama seems to suspect something in this chapter. And looking back, how much did he turn a blind eye to over the years. Ukitake and Kyoraku seem to involved at the very least.

Even Rukia's assignment to the area where Ichigo lives might have been part of it. (Ichigo looks like Kaien Shiba and anyone that knew Rukia would know that would certainly get a reaction out of her). You also have Soul Reapers going and getting stuff from Urahara who is supposed to be in big trouble with the SS. How deep does this rabbit hole go?

[Fjolnir]

I am mistaken then. Wouldn't Aizen then consider the experiments a success and be hunting for the magic-wishball rather than experimenting in hollowfication?

[HandofShadows]

I am mistaken then. Wouldn't Aizen then consider the experiments a success and be hunting for the magic-wishball rather than experimenting in hollowfication?

He can do more than one thing at a time of course. :)

[Kaez]

Well Aizen made his own too, so maybe he was still running tests with it.

We know he made past attempts at variations. The closest "attempt" prior to White was the Hollowfication of several captains and VC's that we know of.

Also, the fact he used a dead Shinigami was interesting to note. It WOULD explain why it couldn't talk, similar to Ichigo's Guardian form, and why it ran off blind rage/instincts.

I wonder though, if the look of both means they are connected (Odds are ridiculously high that this is the case given the events of the last few chapters) or if being dead forms the same "hollow" template.

Unless they somehow used Kaiens body with White (which then throws continuity out the window.... unless Espada 9 lied the entire time)

[LaZodiac]

Well Aizen made his own too, so maybe he was still running tests with it.

We know he made past attempts at variations. The closest "attempt" prior to White was the Hollowfication of several captains and VC's that we know of.

Also, the fact he used a dead Shinigami was interesting to note. It WOULD explain why it couldn't talk, similar to Ichigo's Guardian form, and why it ran off blind rage/instincts.

I wonder though, if the look of both means they are connected (Odds are ridiculously high that this is the case given the events of the last few chapters) or if being dead forms the same "hollow" template.

Unless they somehow used Kaiens body with White (which then throws continuity out the window.... unless Espada 9 lied the entire time)

Well, let's be fair. If there was any Hollow to lie about something like this, specifically to screw with your mind, it'd be this one.

[Olinser]

Well, let's be fair. If there was any Hollow to lie about something like this, specifically to screw with your mind, it'd be this one.

I agree.

I put that right there with Yammy's claim that he was the '0th Espada', despite being taken down ridiculously easily by Zaraki and Byakuya. Zaraki didn't even have to use his kendo swing.

[HandofShadows]

Aizen seems to have based his ranks of the Espada on how much raw spiritual power they had. NOT on how dangerouse they where or how well they fought.

[danzibr]

I want Tsukishima to find Aizen, sitting in his gimp suit in prison, stab him, and then have Aizen say "Exactly as planned".
Man I'd love this.

[Starwulf]

Aside from the fact that Kubo can't draw more than one masculine face?

Genetics simply don't work that way. For Ichigo to look so similar to Kaien he would need to be a closer relative than merely a nephew, or if Kaien isn't Isshin's brother then it's simply ludicrous to imply that he would inherit Kaien's appearance.

Comparatively: Ichigo looks like a mashup between Masaki and Ryuuken. But, again, that runs into problems with Kubo being unable to draw masculine faces.

Don't have much to add, just want to point out that not only am I the spitting image of my father, I also bear a very close resemblance to two of my uncles, who also look a fair amount like my father.


I agree.

I put that right there with Yammy's claim that he was the '0th Espada', despite being taken down ridiculously easily by Zaraki and Byakuya. Zaraki didn't even have to use his kendo swing.

Actually, I kind of view Yammy and the whole 0th Espada bit in a bit of a different light: In terms of raw power, just power, not speed, not skill, he probably was the 0th Espada, but because he was such a dunce, and so monumentally huge, he not only had no speed, but also not a lick of skill in which to use that power. It's like 5'8 150lb Black Belts beating up guys that are 6'6 and 250lbs and muscular as all get out. Sure the big guy has strength, but strength means nothing if you lack the skill to back it up.

[Somewhere]

Kubo's ToC comment for issue #20:

"Doitsu de moratte kutta okagede kokontoko bokkusu de kau gurai HARIBO ni hamatteru."

Hmm, okay, I think I get the gist of it, but putting it together in clean English might be a bit hard for me.

"Thanks to eating what I received in Germany, recently I am addicted to HARIBO to the extent of buying a box."

Hmm, Haribo's the first producer of gummi bears. So he calls Germans cold-blooded, while Germans get him addicted to gummi candy? :P

[Kaez]

I'd probably place the espada based off combat prowess, over raw power. Aizen is smarter than that so I wonder why he did it.

Honestly I would leave Stark/Lynette at 1 because they were powerful and because they were adept at combat and learned techniques on the fly (how to play the Zanpaktou's game, deal with the reflective cero shot zanpaktou, fought with Vizards)

Ulquiorra I'd rate next, simply because he had the Secunda Etapa and was very adapt at combat, had high speed regen (with a flaw... for plot), and was smart.

After that, for it's a wash up between arrogance of the rest of the espada, which to me fit the other 8 :P.

[Starwulf]

I'd probably place the espada based off combat prowess, over raw power. Aizen is smarter than that so I wonder why he did it.

Honestly I would leave Stark/Lynette at 1 because they were powerful and because they were adept at combat and learned techniques on the fly (how to play the Zanpaktou's game, deal with the reflective cero shot zanpaktou, fought with Vizards)

Ulquiorra I'd rate next, simply because he had the Secunda Etapa and was very adapt at combat, had high speed regen (with a flaw... for plot), and was smart.

After that, for it's a wash up between arrogance of the rest of the espada, which to me fit the other 8 :P.

I was actually going through a mental ranking of them myself. For me, I think I'd probably put Barragan at the top. His death ability is nigh unstoppable, I can't imagine Stark/Lilinette managing to figure out the only way to kill him is by infecting him with is own power. I mean, he took a point blank shot with whats-her-names Bazook Bankai and was still perfectly capable of fighting.

For me, I think the rankings theoretically should have looked like this:

1. Barragan 2. Stark/Lilinette 3. Ulquoirra 4. Harribel 5. Crazy dude that Kenpachi fought(my mind is really blanking today ><) 6 and on, ehh, not really sure. Maybe Yammy can be #6. Maybe! He's a moron, so good possibility that the science guy with the S name that I can not begin to pronounce or spell could take him. If we include Neliel, I'd probably displace the guy Kenpachi fought with her.

[Kaez]

I was actually going through a mental ranking of them myself. For me, I think I'd probably put Barragan at the top. His death ability is nigh unstoppable, I can't imagine Stark/Lilinette managing to figure out the only way to kill him is by infecting him with is own power. I mean, he took a point blank shot with whats-her-names Bazook Bankai and was still perfectly capable of fighting.

For me, I think the rankings theoretically should have looked like this:

1. Barragan 2. Stark/Lilinette 3. Ulquoirra 4. Harribel 5. Crazy dude that Kenpachi fought(my mind is really blanking today ><) 6 and on, ehh, not really sure. Maybe Yammy can be #6. Maybe! He's a moron, so good possibility that the science guy with the S name that I can not begin to pronounce or spell could take him. If we include Neliel, I'd probably displace the guy Kenpachi fought with her.

My problem with Barragan being at the top, while his ability was way powerful, it made him arrogant. He would take blasts to the face, degrade limbs and potentially kill a person off by just around them. But all he did was sit there playing "games" with his opponents. That's why he lost to the kido vizard, who thought about it rationally. Strategy can and does beat out brute force sometimes, and to me Barragan felt more "brute" force without the brute.

If you move everyone around and take Barragan out and place him down the line, sure.

Barragan is better than Yammy though, I'm thinking 1. Stark/Lynette 2. Ulquiorra 3. Noitra 4. Barragan 5. Halibel 6. Grimmjow 7. Sazyal 8. Aaronarreo 9. Eyeball dude and 10. Yammy

Though we are entitled to our opinions so I'm curious to see others PoV's.

[Anteros]

Don't have much to add, just want to point out that not only am I the spitting image of my father, I also bear a very close resemblance to two of my uncles, who also look a fair amount like my father.



Actually, I kind of view Yammy and the whole 0th Espada bit in a bit of a different light: In terms of raw power, just power, not speed, not skill, he probably was the 0th Espada, but because he was such a dunce, and so monumentally huge, he not only had no speed, but also not a lick of skill in which to use that power. It's like 5'8 150lb Black Belts beating up guys that are 6'6 and 250lbs and muscular as all get out. Sure the big guy has strength, but strength means nothing if you lack the skill to back it up.

I don't think that's a very good example. In a real fight, the 6'6 250lb man is going to beat the 150lb black belt into paste roughly 99% of the time. Unless they live in a movie, or a shonen manga of course.

[LaZodiac]

Man I'd love this.

I can even think about how it'd work. Tsukshime strikes Aizen, adding himself to Aizen's backstory. But Aizen in those backstories manages to take advantage of Tsukishima, ending up cutting him with his own Book of End, thus allowing Aizen to essentially mold him into a second Aizen.

So, in truth, the actually quote would be "Exactly as we planned"