Party with Little Healing [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

pbdr

2013-03-14, 12:28 PM

So, the group I DM is healing poor. They have Warlock, Barb, Ranger, and Fighter. They are all a bit new and not very optimized.

As it stands the ranger is the "healer" with a wand of CLW.

They are 5th lvl now and about to head out for a decent trek away from civilization. They have the favor of a local nomadic Sheikh (I posted a thread about an encounter I was planning that went pretty well by the way).

I'm thinking about "gifting" them a healing item of some sort for party use. The Warlock has enough UMD for most spell trigger items.

So, questions: Is this a bad idea in general and, if not, what items (beyond standard wands) would be useful?

I'm thinking a Rod of Bodily Restoration (MIC), because ability damage can be tough over the long run (and they are about to fight some wyverns). Any other suggestions?

Callin

2013-03-14, 12:39 PM

Remind them about the joys of Healing Potions. Since nobody wanted the roll of heal bot then they should all take some self responsibility.

Deadline

2013-03-14, 12:44 PM

Healing Belts from the Magic Item Compendium. 750gp each, 3 charges, each heals 2d8. And the best part is that anyone can use them without UMD. Perhaps the Sheik gifts them with one each? (Flavor them as fine silk sashes embroidered with healing runes that are tied about the waist).

King Atticus

2013-03-14, 12:45 PM

I think that you don't have to make that many accomodations for them. Every once in a while throw a CLW wand in with the loot. Eventually they will figure out that it's not enough and maybe the next person to die will draw up a Cleric. Might sound harsh but you didn't pick their classes for them to force them into no healing (I'm assuming) so there's not really a reason to take it easy on them because they didn't plan well as a team. These things have a way of working themselves out.

Fouredged Sword

2013-03-14, 01:15 PM

The big ones you miss without a cleric are
Ability damage - Lots of use
Ability drain - By demand
Hp damage - Lots of use
Negative levels - Lots of use, or not at all, tends to happen all at once.
Disease and Poison - Useful

Now of these
-HP heals on it's own given time
-Ability damage heals on it's own
-Poison goes away after 10 rounds
-Disease can be fought off with fort saves or heal checks (give or have the warlock make some scrolls of guidance of the avatar he can use for +20 to the heal check. It will make curing sickness and poison child's play even without ranks)
-Negative levels CAN be healed over time, but that fort save is harsh if failed. Scrolls of restoration are in order
-Ability Drain - DOES NOT HEAL, intervention is REQUIRED to cure. Restoration will do this.

So in conclusion, the party should be fine with some easy to get loot.

Minimum - wand of CLW, 1 or 2 scroll of restoration PER character, Rod of body restoration, 1 scroll of guidance of the avatar PER character, or a wand thereof (it is a REALLY useful spell).

Person_Man

2013-03-14, 01:16 PM

Yeah, I generally go with the gift of healing wands as well. There's no reason to punish people for not playing a mostly thankless roll. You could also just hand wave it away - when they rest, they heal all damage. Done.

Morphie

2013-03-14, 01:21 PM

I think this (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871786/A_Players_Guide_to_Healing_(And,_why_you_will_be_J ust_Fine_without_a_Cleric_to_heal)) could help a bit. But if you think they will have problems in the long run suggest them some multiclassing. Or maybe when one of them dies, bring a cleric or a druid to the table, they are so much more than mere healing bots :)

pbdr

2013-03-14, 01:38 PM

They are all a bit new to the game, and getting someone to play a caster cleric would be difficult. Getting one to play the warlock took arm twisting.

They tend toward hack and slash, but I want to start them thinking about long term survival and tactics (and maybe eventually someone will be more open to a full caster).

They already know to stock up on wands of CLW (cheap and out of battle they can basically heal all the damage they have as long as the charges hold out). I think for now I will go with the Rod of Bodily Restoration and thrown in a couple extra scrolls.

The first time they get hit with with ability drain or negative levels, I'll make friendly encounter with a cleric or some such, but hen suggest that the friendly encounter won't necessarily happen again.

Daer

2013-03-14, 01:51 PM

Perhaps sheik offers them healer npc. One that is mute except when praying/casting and would follow PCs commands.

But then again if everyone handles their own health then its no problem. Perhaps even better when without cleric they need to bit consider if they want fight at every chance or use other means .

killem2

2013-03-14, 02:00 PM

I would give them syringes.

These are located in the age of worms module, in the dragon magazines.

Basically they allow loaded potion to be administered as a free action. Once per round. If nothing is loaded it takes a standard action I beleive to reload it.

Uses ANY potion. That would be some great gifts too :).

yougi

2013-03-14, 02:39 PM

They tend toward hack and slash, but I want to start them thinking about long term survival and tactics (and maybe eventually someone will be more open to a full caster).

Usually, "They prefer X, but I don't" does not translate to a positive gaming experience. But then again, that's not the topic at hand.

There are two schools of thought about "incomplete" parties, as you've realized: some will say "it's your job to make up for it", and some will say "it's their problem, these suckers decided not to have a cleric". I'm from the latter, and when my party rerolled Ranger, Warmage, Scout and Wizard, I banged my head on the desk. Second session, they find a locked chest, and they go "Well, we'll bring it back to town, and when the DM finally gives us a Rogue as henchman, he'll unlock it." "What Rogue? Who said I'd give you a Rogue?" "Well we don't have one! What are we going to do without a Rogue! And a Tank, and a healer!" "I TOLD YOU THAT WHEN YOU WERE MAKING YOUR CHARACTERS!". What I'm saying is that you should make your position on that clear to your players.

That being said, I personally make healing wands and potions rather common in loot, and I'd suggest that too. Also, taking the load off of the Ranger, maybe by giving them a Hairshirt of suffering, or a Healing belt, in order to have an "off-healer", to use WoW terminology.

Gerrtt

2013-03-14, 04:00 PM

Talk the warlock into going Eldritch Disciple?

gorfnab

2013-03-14, 05:52 PM

Band-Aids for Dummies Handbook (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=1520.0)

Seer_of_Heart

2013-03-14, 06:04 PM

Remind them about the joys of Healing Potions. Since nobody wanted the roll of heal bot then they should all take some self responsibility.

The school of thought among optimizers on forums typically is that healbots is a silly role for clerics when they are more useful in other ways. The only thing that could be a problem is the lack of restoration to heal negative levels/ability drain, otherwise a wand of CLW is plenty for out of battle healing. Maybe the dm should recommend they buy a couple of scrolls of restoration just in case.

killem2

2013-03-14, 06:26 PM

The school of thought among optimizers on forums typically is that healbots is a silly role for clerics when they are more useful in other ways. The only thing that could be a problem is the lack of restoration to heal negative levels/ability drain, otherwise a wand of CLW is plenty for out of battle healing. Maybe the dm should recommend they buy a couple of scrolls of restoration just in case.

There is also a potion hat, I wish I can remember the damn issue it was from. It basically loads up 12 potions 6 on each side, free action for one, full round action for both or something like that.

Anyone know what I am talking about? Thing is awesome.

Seer_of_Heart

2013-03-14, 06:34 PM

There is also a potion hat, I wish I can remember the damn issue it was from. It basically loads up 12 potions 6 on each side, free action for one, full round action for both or something like that.

Anyone know what I am talking about? Thing is awesome.

This is a real item :smallconfused:. This sounds like putting a beer hat on your head and drinking potions out of it :smallamused:. Too bad my dm never let me do that he really liked giving us potions... I should totally make this some loot available in my game :smallbiggrin:.

sleepyphoenixx

2013-03-14, 06:37 PM

The school of thought among optimizers on forums typically is that healbots is a silly role for clerics when they are more useful in other ways. The only thing that could be a problem is the lack of restoration to heal negative levels/ability drain, otherwise a wand of CLW is plenty for out of battle healing. Maybe the dm should recommend they buy a couple of scrolls of restoration just in case.

Restoration is a 3rd level spell for the Healer so you can get a wand for 16250gp.
Even with a Cleric in the party it's a good investment since if you can be sure that you need restoration you usually need more than one.
The cost can be shared by the party, making it affordable.

killem2

2013-03-14, 06:39 PM

This is a real item :smallconfused:. This sounds like putting a beer hat on your head and drinking potions out of it :smallamused:. Too bad my dm never let me do that he really liked giving us potions... I should totally make this some loot available in my game :smallbiggrin:.

You are right in your thinking, it was from an april version of dragon mag, and it looks VERY much like that hat.

and I found it..

in Dragon #294, page 81

the Ready-Drink Helm holds 6 potions, allowing you to drink one as a free action.

I was off, but it is pretty cool.

Slipperychicken

2013-03-14, 06:41 PM

The school of thought among optimizers on forums typically is that healbots is a silly role for clerics when they are more useful in other ways.

They can Cure spontaneously, meaning they don't lose anything when they prepare spells to fill other roles. Every group should have scrolls of Remove Curse, Remove Disease, and Restoration when they need them, just in case it's urgent and the Cleric didn't prepare it that day.

Healing and all those condition-removing spells are still needed, just usually not in combat, and usually not worth a memorization (scrolls are fine though, and if you know you'll run into such ailments, prepare it). You also can easily make do without an entire character devoted to healing.

Psyren

2013-03-14, 07:10 PM

Remind them about the joys of Healing Wands.

Fixed that for you. The Warlock should have no trouble using them even before he gets Deceive Item, and the Ranger can use them too.

Callin

2013-03-14, 07:14 PM

Psyren

2013-03-14, 07:18 PM

Yes but not every class can use a wand. Every class can drink a potion and I feel that each person should be responsible for some of the personal healing in a party. Even if you have a Cleric or other Divine Caster who can heal.

The problem with potions is that they are horribly inefficient for their cost, take too many actions to use (retrieval + drinking), and provoke AoO when you try to use them, which typically negates their effect.

If you want players to be in control their own healing, get them Healing Belts.

J-H

2013-03-14, 08:46 PM

Healing belts, and wands of Lessor Vigor (Druid item, cures 1hp/rd for 10 or 15 rds) for out of combat healing. Warlock should be able to UMD it most of the time.

lsfreak

2013-03-15, 12:10 AM

In-combat, except in extremely unoptimized groups, doing damage is going to be a better use of actions (to say nothing of knocking people out with battlefield control, suck-of-X, etc). In such an unoptimized group, potions (at reasonable, rather than by-the-book-insane, costs) and wands should be plenty for normal healing tasks.

Out of combat, wands of lesser vigor. Healing belts are useful both out and in.

If this is not enough, allow the heal skill to actually heal.

Any of these could reasonably be given endlessly; allowing unlimited out-of-combat healing does little to affect the game negatively unless a key tenant is being unable to completely rest/heal (zombie apocalypse games, very gritty games, etc).

Yes, a free rod of bodily restoration sounds like a good plan, unless you're willing to make your players work hard due to their class choices (but I wouldn't do this unless it was agreed upon before the campaign started).

Rubik

2013-03-15, 02:48 AM

In addition to being generous with healing items, you may wish to show your group's meatshields Tome of Battle, and get them interested in using it. If someone dips crusader, they could easily get some good in-combat healing there.

You could also provide a ToB maneuver item that grants the Martial Spirit stance, which grants an ally within 30' 2 points of healing for every melee attack the wielder makes. This includes attacks of opportunity, two weapon fighting, and so on.

There's also Crusader's Strike, which grants just slightly less than a Cure Light Wounds' worth of healing with a melee attack. Still not too bad, considering how much you'd have to pay for a potion thereof.

pbdr

2013-03-15, 08:44 AM

HP healing is not the main issue, they do know to stick up on CLW wands, and have some potions.

It's more the ability damage at this point, and later ability drain and negative levels, etc.

I think for now, I will suggest they invest in some appropriate divine scrolls and will also arrange for a Rod of Bodily Restoration to be available.

Fouredged Sword

2013-03-15, 08:55 AM

A wand of restoration would be 13500 GP. It should handle any ability drain/level drain the party runs across.

4 Belts of healing will handle any self healing needs. 1 wand CLW will take care of out of combat healing. 1 rod of body restoration will handle ability damage.

Venger

2013-03-15, 09:12 AM

Band-Aids for Dummies Handbook (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=1520.0)

in a similar vein (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871786/A_Players_Guide_to_Healing_(And,_why_you_will_be_J ust_Fine_without_a_Cleric_to_heal))

Rubik

2013-03-15, 10:05 AM