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View Full Version : Need to make a tank: Strengths and Weaknesses



DontEatRawHagis
2013-03-14, 08:41 PM
I am having trouble coming up with ways to kill a tank. I get to rocket launcher, hack it, and attack the treads and that's it. What else can you do?

Short description:
Smart Tank, Cyberpunk theme.

Long Description:
Military tank designed for a war that didn't happen. It holds an AI that is designed for stealth and cyber warfare. It was a prototype/one of kind tank, meant as transport and support for special forces soldiers.


Summary:
The players are not equipped with anti-vehicle weapons as far as I know.

They are currently on top of a Cafe which is most likely going to be leveled. One sniper on a building overlooking the scene. Nothing else was described. So I am willing to add any environmental hazards for the tank

ArcturusV
2013-03-14, 08:51 PM
Well, it all depends. Knocking out the treads is a first step. It turns a Tank into a Pillbox, effectively. Still hard to take out, but it's not going anywhere. And you don't even really need a rocket launcher to do that. Even a good hand grenade could do it.

The important thing to remember is that the classical weakness of the tank isn't massive firepower necessarily, it's Infantry. A tank without infantry to back it up can be taken out fairly easy by infantry. Tanks just aren't designed to take on small human targets. Even during the "Machine Gun" craze era of Tank Design that was still a problem, when tanks were mounting like 8-12 machineguns on it.

It takes some guts, but with the tank tracked? It's dead meat. You can get up to it pretty easily with some daring use of terrain and flanking it. Once you are close to it? Hell, even doing something as "Low tech" as smearing mud over it's viewblocks/sensors is going to basically defeat the tank. It might be able to blindfire at you. But it won't be acquiring you anytime soon.

Wait out it's blindfire fury, then you got a VERY large, heavy paperweight.

Brother Oni
2013-03-15, 03:25 AM
The problem is that the infantry weakness of tanks is well recognised and most sci-fi versions have quite effective point defence weapons, from the simple (claymore mines or sentry guns mounted on the hull) to the fancy (electrified hull) to the hi-tech (omnidirectional sonic emitter).

If the tank doesn't have any of those then it's not likely to have any close proximity sensors, in which case I agree with ArcturusV - sneak up on it using terrain/environment, then damage its sensor ports or tracks.
Shaped charges on maintenance/access hatches, then grenades to finish it off. If your PCs are crazy enough (and by virtue of being players, they should be), then they could try getting something down the cannon barrel (don't be afraid to injure them with the main cannon shockwave if they're too close to it when it fires).

One question - is the tank designed to be controlled by AI from the start and not retrofitted? If the former, then it's not going to have inconvenient crew spaces inside, thus it's going to have a significantly smaller profile and probably better armour.

Bouregard
2013-03-15, 04:43 AM
Another nice weakness, heat:

Stop it and make a nice fire under it or next to it. AI controlled or human crewed doesn't matter here.


Water:

Lure the tank into a canyon or somewhere with large amounts of water and then flood it.

Rhynn
2013-03-15, 04:49 AM
In a dramatic twist, it turns out the tank was based on the Soviet T-34 and has external fuel containers on the back - one shot and a match and the whole thing turns into an inferno on tracks. Everything melts and overheats as burning fuel makes its way inside, and the AI shuts down and eventually is destroyed for ever as its poor circuits warp, melt, and burn...

... what?

genmoose
2013-03-16, 07:03 PM
Easiest way to engage armor without dedicated anti-tank weapons is to go for the optics/sensors. You've got a sniper that could feasibly make short work of them.

If you have something with a little punch, you could try to obstruct the main gun barrel. A very lucky shot (natural 20) with a heavy round (12.7mm BMG) could get stuck in the tube and catch the round on its way out. Realistically you won't get a tube detonation since most HE rounds are designed to arm after they've exited the tube. But if you can jam a round in the tube, you've effectively disabled it.

As the last 10 years has demonstrated over and over again, even a small explosion from the bottom of the tank can be devastating. If you're willing to throw the PC's a bone you could have the tank run over something like a car with a large battery pack or half a tank of gas.

Also since the tank is computer controlled, you could try hitting it with a large amount of electricity (down a power pole, expose an underground line, etc).

One point to make is that you said the tank was designed for stealth and special forces support. For me that means lightweight and fast. Lightweight means low armor. The only armored combat vehicle I've ever heard anyone call 'quiet or stealthy' is a Stryker. Generally treads = noisy and heavy unless they're all rubber (think small construction equipment).

One last idea. Chances are the tank's sensors are going to be at least partially thermal and tuned to a specific range (to detect vehicles and bodies against a cool background). The PC's could possibly overload or at least blind the tank by producing a very large local heat source. Low tech: set the thing on fire. High tech: drop an incendiary right on or near the sensors. A marking flare, or some folks might have a 40/25mm grenade with thermite or white phosphorus. Think of trying to see across a moonlit field when someone holds a flashlight two inches in front of your eyes.

LibraryOgre
2013-03-16, 08:27 PM
Easiest way to engage armor without dedicated anti-tank weapons is to go for the optics/sensors. You've got a sniper that could feasibly make short work of them.


This should be especially true of an AI-controlled tank. It depends on the complexity of AI in your world, but reducing its means of gathering data may introduce unacceptably large margins of error into its decision making processes, slowing or even stopping its actions.

Slipperychicken
2013-03-17, 03:59 PM
Tanks can't drive through buildings, or thin alleyways, or obstructed traffic. Not easily, anyway. Clever players can use the terrain to their advantage. Pop out, a shot or two, pop back behind cover.

If they can trap it with rubble or traffic, it's a sitting duck. Would require a fair bit of explosives to take a building down, though. Maybe they could trick the tank into shooting the building down on top of itself.

Worst case, if they can go underground or move from one building to another, they can escape.

Hiro Protagonest
2013-03-17, 04:21 PM
Best you can do is improvised explosives. Unprepared soldiers cannot fight tanks. No small arms infantry weapon except the rocket launcher and HEAT ammo can take down a tank, and the latter really only works on a machine gun and requires a lot of good hits. Any demoman worth his salt knows how to make explosives, but it still requires time.

Kane0
2013-03-17, 08:05 PM
Short description:
Smart Tank, Cyberpunk theme.

Long Description:
Military tank designed for a war that didn't happen. It holds an AI that is designed for stealth and cyber warfare. It was a prototype/one of kind tank, meant as transport and support for special forces soldiers.


Stealth tank you say (http://cnc.wikia.com/wiki/Stealth_tank_(Tiberium_Wars))?
It might not have a cannon, it could have rocket launchers or something.

Anyway, something underneath it would put it out of commission, as your blinding it or disrupting its electronics/software such as via EMP or junk data overload. Can be much more delicate than you think. Even if you coat your laptop in shock reducing armor plating you drop it and there is a good chance it won't be turning on again.

Also, if it was meant to transport soldiers then getting inside could be a possibility. Destroying it once your inside it would be easy.

Other options include airstrikes, extreme heat/cold, getting rid of its power source and getting it stuck somewhere where it is of little threat.

Lord Torath
2013-03-17, 09:14 PM
Does it have any way of communicating with "Home Base" for further instructions? Hack the signal and take it over. This will, of course, require specialized hacking and transmitting/receiving equipment. And skills. But one of your Cyberpunk guys should be the Skill Monkey, right? And he just might be packing his laptop (it's got to be a cyber cafe, right? I mean, is there any other kind, especially in Cyberpunk?)

Rhynn
2013-03-17, 09:24 PM
Stealth tank you say (http://cnc.wikia.com/wiki/Stealth_tank_(Tiberium_Wars))?

Stealth tank you say (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tachikoma)?

Kane0
2013-03-17, 10:56 PM
Stealth tank you say (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tachikoma)?

Touche, my good man.

Slipperychicken
2013-03-18, 12:07 AM
Can anyone EMP the tank? I'm not an expert, but that should fry its systems.

Rhynn
2013-03-18, 12:11 AM
Can anyone EMP the tank? I'm not an expert, but that should fry its systems.

If a cyberpunk military tank isn't EMP shielded/hardened, it does not deserve to exist.

Worth a try, though.

avr
2013-03-18, 03:08 AM
Given what the AI is designed for this may be taking it on in the area of its' strength, but hacking whatever if uses to identify friends & foes might be possible in a cyberpunk world, especially if the tank is a bit out of date.

Greenish
2013-03-18, 05:46 AM
It was a prototype/one of kind tank, meant as transport and support for special forces soldiers.Is it a prototype as in "still some kinks to work out", or prototype as in "unexplainably stronger than any later versions"?

Raimun
2013-03-18, 12:42 PM
You might need more than one guy for this:

1) Force the entrance hatch open. Is anyone really strong? If so, try to get on top of the tank and do it by hand. If not, shooting might be trickier and you'd need a big gun.

2) Drop/throw an explosive charge of your choice. Anyone inside is dead. Applies for AIs too. Use a timer.

3) Get away.

4) Watch the fireworks.

Granted, the above tactic was executed by our Space Marine characters in a game of Deathwatch but cyberpunk-types might be able to pull it off.

Wardog
2013-03-20, 07:21 PM
One point to make is that you said the tank was designed for stealth and special forces support. For me that means lightweight and fast. Lightweight means low armor.

Especially is it is also functioning as a transport / IFV.

It sounds like this is a highly specialised hybrid vehicle, that will be extremely effective in the situations it is designed for (infiltrating special forces and/or attacking targets that aren't expecting to be facing armour), but much weaker in other roles, and particularly vulnerable in a stand-up fight against either a normal tank, or normal anti-tank weapons.

ArcturusV
2013-03-20, 07:29 PM
i.e.: Like someone bringing an M5 Stuart to a King Tiger fight.

DontEatRawHagis
2013-03-20, 10:08 PM
Is it a prototype as in "still some kinks to work out", or prototype as in "unexplainably stronger than any later versions"?

First one.

So what ended up happening is I took a lot of the feed back I got here before Sunday and used it to help create the tank and the encounter.

What did I do?
I gave one of the players a sheet with a technical spec of what the tank was. As well as a list of weaknesses. Even if they didn't know what to do I said they could use what is on the sheet to probably take it out.

The Tank was armored and I let the players know that just hacking and slashing it wouldn't be a one shot kill, but it could weaken it. I even allowed the sniper to shoot through a fire point into the main computer system.

I even had stats prepared for the team to take it on as a new transport.

What actually happened?
The guy who knew about the tank wanted it for himself, while everyone else wanted to blow it to kingdom come. He didn't inform anyone about the technical specs and instead relied on himself and one other player to hack the tank.

I even said the Tank was weak to wireless hacking attacks, but they thought it meant they had to get inside the tank.

One of the players took C4 on Acid as an equipment pick. Strapped it to the hacker and threw him at the tank. The Hacker managed to get inside the tank. Which was overheating because the Sniper was damaging the tank's CPU. The tank was about to melt to slag, but the hacker managed to shut it all down before it blew up.

Then the Guy with C4 flipped the switch and blew up the tank. In all honesty I believe he was trying to kill the Hacker for something he did when they played Pathfinder the friday before(Tic for Tac as it were). Ingame the Hacker survived the explosion(Even a direct Tac-Missile strike wouldn't kill a character like this in 1-hit). He was a Supersoldier Cyborg so I could hand wave it as well.

In the end the players had a great discussion about not telling each other all the information. And how they need to trust each other more.

Sadly the tank was destroyed in the process. But on the plus side I have a kidnap storyline to run because the players Kidnapped an NPC who figured out who the Hacker is.