3.0 PRC's that you still consider using

[RedDragons]

what sort of 3.0 prc;s that are not in 3.5 do you still consider using?

[questionmark693]

I DM a campaign where a guy took Deepwood Sniper from masters of the wild, it's a pretty ok PrC from what I can tell.

[Greenish]

what sort of 3.0 prc;s that are not in 3.5 do you still consider using?Archery ones. 3.0 Order of the Bow Initiate, while not stellar, is at least better than the abomination that the 3.5 version is. Deepwood Sniper is pretty decent.

There might be other 3.0 PrCs worth using, but I'm not really familiar with most of them.

[herrhauptmann]

I still like the Devoted Defender.
In place of the Exotic Weapon Master, there's the Master of Chains and the Lasher.

[Psyren]

Planar Vanguard (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20031219a)

9/10 manifesting, and you turn your psicrystal into a sentient demiplane while getting a second psicrystal to replace it. What's not to like?

[Karnith]

I quite like Iaijutsu Master (from Oriental Adventures) on a Factotum, even though it's not terribly good at advancing skills (or even being effective at combat, if I'm honest). One Strike, Two Cuts combined with Cunning Surge is so tantalizing, though.

[ArcturusV]

Void Disciple, very nice. A very Scary PrC due to its Void Sense. DCs for it are ricockulously low, and while it can't cross planar boundries it does mean that I can be sitting 1000 miles away and smite you with a touch spell, etc.

I like the Eunich Warlock but I never got a chance to use it. So it's always just been kinda sitting there in a 3.0 book taunting me. Either because a DM said no or said "No 3.0" the very few times I've gotten to play a character who might eventually qualify for it.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Lasher. Hexer. Thrall of Juiblex. Disciple of Asmodeus. Disciple of Dispater. Soul eater. Warrior of Darkness. Cancer Mage. Vermin Lord. I see a theme energies

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Hexer, from Masters of the Wild, especially on an Archivist (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20051007a&page=3).

[ksbsnowowl]

Peerless Archer, DWS, and OotBI especially.

Pretty much anything that isn't stupid.

[Pickford]

what sort of 3.0 prc;s that are not in 3.5 do you still consider using?

Seems a shame the Devoted Defender isn't in 3.5; Gladiator looks interesting...only had sword and fist on hand but the 3.0 prcs look terrible compared to the 3.5 ones.

[Tvtyrant]

I like Thrall of Jubilex for at will polymorph.

[herrhauptmann]

Void Disciple, very nice. A very Scary PrC due to its Void Sense. DCs for it are ricockulously low, and while it can't cross planar boundries it does mean that I can be sitting 1000 miles away and smite you with a touch spell, etc.

I like the Eunich Warlock but I never got a chance to use it. So it's always just been kinda sitting there in a 3.0 book taunting me. Either because a DM said no or said "No 3.0" the very few times I've gotten to play a character who might eventually qualify for it.

Eunuch Warlock? Which book is that?

Also, there's Planar Champion.
After it was updated for 3.5 you got:
3 Favored Planes (meh)
See invisible at level 2
Attack ethereal at level 3
An EX "avoid planar effects spell"
Ethereal Jaunt at level 6. CL 13, 3/day.
Create and Sunder Portals
DR. This one is pretty bad, 10/magic, at level 9 (used to be 20/+1)

A shame it requires Weapon Spec.

[WhatBigTeeth]

Eunuch Warlock? Which book is that?
Oriental Adventures, updated the 3.5 in some dragon issue.

The original printing has an interesting spell mechanic that adds spell slots and spell levels without a "+1 level existing spellcasting class" progression. It sucked for normal casters, but it could open some tricks like advancing PrCs or certain half-casters to higher level spell slots than they normally provide.

The dragon magazine update got rid of that nifty bit, and just left it a generic spellcasting class with strong enough ties to the Leadership feat to never expect to see it in play.

[Waker]

Devoted Defender, Ghost Walker and Foe Hunter.

[Greenish]

I like the Eunuch Warlock but I never got a chance to use it.Ah, the only PrC in 1st party 3rd edition that requires you to be male.

[ksbsnowowl]

Ah, the only PrC in 1st party 3rd edition that requires you to be male.

Well, part male...

[ArcturusV]

I shall trade my balls for POWAAAAAAR!

But yeah. It was already covered. The concept always seemed fun, just never got to use it.

Interestingly enough some third party stuff that is a lot more broken I HAVE gotten to use like Disciple of Aalarun and Dominator.

[Skysaber]

Spelldancer, definitely. Full casting, evasion, and by an interesting quirk of the way it's abilities are written, you can throw every metamagic feat you've got on a spell once a day.

[RedDragons]

Nothing makes the table roll over dead with laughter, when you start doing gangam style with your character so you can extend Animalistic Power

[inuyasha]

assassin, blighter, shadowdancer, changeling, and many more :p

[kardar233]

Spelldancer, definitely. Full casting, evasion, and by an interesting quirk of the way it's abilities are written, you can throw every metamagic feat you've got on a spell once a day.

I still use Spelldancer, as it hasn't been updated. If you can get around the Constitution damage and fatigue from using its ability (simple enough with Sheltered Vitality) and stomach the four-feat tax, then you can put as much metamagic as you want on as many spells as you want daily. Excellent for Persistomancy.

[Ageir]

Weapon master from the fist and sword. plus in my group we stack keen and imp crit. We also play gestalt so barbarian fighter with weaponmaster and frenzied beserkers are popular .

[Thurbane]

Hexer is pretty awesome if you can swing the requisites. Full casting, full BAB, bonus spells known...

[Zaq]

Far from the first to say this, but I love the concept of the Devoted Defender.

The Candle Caster is also really cool. Bizarre as hell and weird on balance (also, ridiculous prerequisite with the whole "stockpile o' tindertwigs" thing), but neat.

[sonofzeal]

Void Disciple, very nice. A very Scary PrC due to its Void Sense. DCs for it are ricockulously low, and while it can't cross planar boundries it does mean that I can be sitting 1000 miles away and smite you with a touch spell, etc.
Void Disciple is completely friggin borked. And not just one kind of borked too - you've got Planar Sheppard level godly power borked, and Truenamer level poorly written borked, all in one bundle of borked borkiness.

There is very little banned at my tables, but Void Disciple is on the list. No, not even if you promise to play nice with it. Its borkitude has passed the event horizon, and I seriously can't imagine any circumstance where I'd permit use of it when perfectly viable alternatives exist.

[ArcturusV]

OH, I know... I know. I've always wanted to use it for a PC. I have used it for villains. But never in an optimal way. More like pissing off the PCs way and petty harassment. Just having a PC get randomly Shocking Grasped out of seemingly "nowhere" will freak them out.

Because not all villain I run are optimized. Some are just sadistic bullies that like to see you in pain, confused, and scared. :smallcool:

[jywu98]

Planar Vanguard (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20031219a)

9/10 manifesting, and you turn your psicrystal into a sentient demiplane while getting a second psicrystal to replace it. What's not to like?

Dang, that's cool.

[Yora]

I like the Demon Thralls from BoVD. Purely for fluff, but every class choice should be made purely for fluff.

[Essence_of_War]

Hexer is the principle motivation for being a Shugenja! :smalltongue:

I'd make some of the OA/d20 Rokugan PrCs available too.

[jedipilot24]

Outlaw of the Crimson Road, Royal Explorer, Master Samurai.

Anyone think that the 3.0 specialization rules for Wizards were better than the 3.5?

[Darius Kane]

Any that are not updated, and sometimes even those that are.

[herrhauptmann]

Outlaw of the Crimson Road, Royal Explorer, Master Samurai.

Anyone think that the 3.0 specialization rules for Wizards were better than the 3.5?

How were they different in 3.0 again?
I remember in 2nd ed, your banned schools depended on your specialization...

[prufock]

I just discovered the 3.0 Virtuoso trick from Song & Silence. Easy entry (Perform 10 ranks, Intimidate or Diplomacy 6 ranks, able to cast 0-level arcane spells) and grants you all bardic music abilities at 1st level (though the text contradicts itself - it says "all" then lists them but leaves out a few). Bardic music is now based purely on your ranks in perform, not class levels.

This is good for a) multiclass bards, to catch up on bardic music and b) any class with Perform as a class skill. You dip one level of Virtuoso, and you gain all bardic music abilities, then go back to whatever your base class was. Basically free stuff. Oh, and if you are a multiclass bard, you double up on bardic music uses per day. One level is all you need (and honestly the rest of the class isn't worth it).

My DM is allowing me to take this for my multiclassed bard/marshal next level to catch up on my bardic music abilities. NOTE: We're using a limited list of primary sources - Core + PHB2, Miniatures Handbook, Song & Silence, and Sword & Fist. He's ruling that the list of bardic music abilities granted is incomplete, and that "all" means ALL, and that levels stack for your IC bonus.

[ZamielVanWeber]

How were they different in 3.0 again?
I remember in 2nd ed, your banned schools depended on your specialization...

Exactly like 2nd ed. Also Divination was bannable in 3.0 because Read Magic was untyped.

[ArcturusV]

How were they different in 3.0 again?
I remember in 2nd ed, your banned schools depended on your specialization...

Kind of similar. In 2nd Edition, as I recall, you had locked in your banned schools based off a wheel arrangement (The two schools opposite of your specialization where automatically banned).

In 3.0 it was a range of options things. Like, a specialist Conjurer could choose the ban one of the following options:

1) Evocation
2) Transmutation
3) Two from either Abjuration, Enchantment, and Illusions.
4) Any three schools.

If I wanted to be a specialist necromancer I had to choose only a single school, any other school, to ban. Possibly because they thought Necromancy was weak, like they do Divination. Then again they also think spells like Fireball and Ice Storm were the bee's knees.

[ksbsnowowl]

Hexer is the principle motivation for being a Shugenja! :smalltongue:

I'd make some of the OA/d20 Rokugan PrCs available too.

I've always wanted to play a Bhuka* Archivist/Hexer.

*Bhuka are a desert goblin race from Sandstorm.


Any that are not updated, and sometimes even those that are.This. The argument not to allow 3.0 classes because 3.0 was less balanced than 3.5 is just ridiculous. I use 3.0 Incantatrix, then use 3.5 Incantatrix as the epic progression.

[hamishspence]

Actually that's bhuka:
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/sand_gallery/87588.jpg

Bhuts are something else, in Fiend Folio:
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/ff_gallery/50115.jpg

[ksbsnowowl]

Actually that's bhuka:
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/sand_gallery/87588.jpg

Bhuts are something else, in Fiend Folio:
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/ff_gallery/50115.jpg

Ack! You are correct, sir.

[dysprosium]

+1 for the devoted defender. it is the ultimate bodyguard style class through its harm's way ability

[Zeb]

Masters of the Wild's Forsaker

Useful for maxing out your armor, all without magic.

[ksbsnowowl]

Masters of the Wild's Forsaker

Useful for maxing out your armor, all without magic.

Forsaker with Vow of Poverty....

Specialize in sundering. Sunder the bad guy's magic sword to power up your Forsaker abilities.

[LeshLush]

I just discovered the 3.0 Virtuoso trick from Song & Silence. Easy entry (Perform 10 ranks, Intimidate or Diplomacy 6 ranks, able to cast 0-level arcane spells) and grants you all bardic music abilities at 1st level (though the text contradicts itself - it says "all" then lists them but leaves out a few). Bardic music is now based purely on your ranks in perform, not class levels.

This is good for a) multiclass bards, to catch up on bardic music and b) any class with Perform as a class skill. You dip one level of Virtuoso, and you gain all bardic music abilities, then go back to whatever your base class was. Basically free stuff. Oh, and if you are a multiclass bard, you double up on bardic music uses per day. One level is all you need (and honestly the rest of the class isn't worth it).

My DM is allowing me to take this for my multiclassed bard/marshal next level to catch up on my bardic music abilities. NOTE: We're using a limited list of primary sources - Core + PHB2, Miniatures Handbook, Song & Silence, and Sword & Fist. He's ruling that the list of bardic music abilities granted is incomplete, and that "all" means ALL, and that levels stack for your IC bonus.
In 3.0, all bardic music was based only on ranks in perform. You didn't need to dip Virtuoso, just one level of bard. That said, Inspire Courage also never advanced passed +1, so it was a little pointless to abuse the 3.0 bard in this manner.

[RedDragons]

Make a rust monster abilties all EX, and then awaken the creature and have it take forsaker classes.

[Amphetryon]

Oozemaster. . . .

What? :smallbiggrin:

[ksbsnowowl]

Oozemaster. . . .

What? :smallbiggrin:

That and Slime Lord are the two prestige classes I flat out bar, simply on a "that's stupid" rule.

Yep, I'm a snob.

[Darius Kane]

Where's Oozemaster ans Slime Lord from?

[ksbsnowowl]

Where's Oozemaster ans Slime Lord from?

Oozemaster... Masters of the Wild? (one of the 3.0 splats, if not MotW)
Slime Lord... Player's Guide to Faerun?

[123456789blaaa]

That and Slime Lord are the two prestige classes I flat out bar, simply on a "that's stupid" rule.

Yep, I'm a snob.

Why do you think they're stupid? :smallconfused:

[Person_Man]

Church Inquisitor from Defenders of the Faith. Easy entry requirements, full divine caster progression, Detect Evil at will, Inquisition Domain, Immune to Charm, Compulsion, and Possession, auto-pierce illusions, force creatures to revert to their true form (negating Polymorph, Shapechange, Wildshape, Alternate Form, etc), Discern Lies, and force people to tell you the truth.

The aformentioned Slime Lord from the Player's Guide to Faerun is also cool. Paralyzing touch attack, Supernatural Alter Self at will with no cap on duration or number of uses, DR 5/slashing or piercing, and Extraordinary Blindsight, and a ton of immunities (sleep, polymorph, critical hits/sneak attack, poison, paralysis, stunning). It's 3.5 material though, not 3.0.

[ksbsnowowl]

Why do you think they're stupid? :smallconfused:

I just do. The subject matter is dumb, IMO.


Church Inquisitor from Defenders of the Faith. Easy entry requirements, full divine caster progression, Detect Evil at will, Inquisition Domain, Immune to Charm, Compulsion, and Possession, auto-pierce illusions, force creatures to revert to their true form (negating Polymorph, Shapechange, Wildshape, Alternate Form, etc), Discern Lies, and force people to tell you the truth.

The best way to play a sorcerer in 3.0 was Sorcerer/Divine Oracle/Church Inquisitor. You got 18 bonus spells known from the two domains.

They changed the way bonus domains worked in 3.5.

[Tvtyrant]

That and Slime Lord are the two prestige classes I flat out bar, simply on a "that's stupid" rule.

Yep, I'm a snob.

Some people like oozes... Seems a little odd to outright ban something based on your own personal dislike.

[ksbsnowowl]

Some people like oozes... Seems a little odd to outright ban something based on your own personal dislike.

Odd, perhaps. But I'm also running a homebrew campaign setting. I don't want absolutely everything that falls under the D&D umbrella represented in said world.

But, this starts to divert into another topic, so I'll just leave it at that.

[Ryu_Bonkosi]

Church Inquisitor from Defenders of the Faith. Easy entry requirements, full divine caster progression, Detect Evil at will, Inquisition Domain, Immune to Charm, Compulsion, and Possession, auto-pierce illusions, force creatures to revert to their true form (negating Polymorph, Shapechange, Wildshape, Alternate Form, etc), Discern Lies, and force people to tell you the truth.

I'm pretty sure that Complete Divine's Church Inquisitor is the exact same thing.

[ksbsnowowl]

I'm pretty sure that Complete Divine's Church Inquisitor is the exact same thing.
Unless you are a sorcerer... :smallwink:

[kardar233]

I'm pretty sure that Complete Divine's Church Inquisitor is the exact same thing.

Yeah, I looked at the abilities you listed and the CD version has all the same ones. You can also enter it by 4th level without any early entry tricks, and you could enter at third with them.