Why isn't there an orc/elf hybrid?

[gurgleflep]

To start things off... Hello, how are all of you today?

Now for the question:
I know the books say they can't happen for some reason or another, but lets just go with the typical "A wizard did it!" argument. Would magic allow this combination? Is there already one made that I'm unable to find?

Thank you to anybody and everybody who helps me out with this!

[Acanous]

Dependingon the lore, Orcs ARE elves, changed through magic/evolution/the curse of an angry god.
They definately are in Tolkien based lore.

[Waker]

There are manly half-breeds that aren't represented for one reason or another. No Half-Gnomes running around to my knowledge.
Anyways, magically speaking it could happen I guess, since magic can do everything. I don't know of a Half Elf/Orc, but the stats probably wouldn't be that far off from a human. It probably would have better senses and a slightly longer lifespan. You'll probably have to make the race yourself or you can try poking around in Homebrew.

[gurgleflep]

Dependingon the lore, Orcs ARE elves, changed through magic/evolution/the curse of an angry god.
They definately are in Tolkien based lore.

Is the curse be why they're unable to breed with one another?


There are manly half-breeds that aren't represented for one reason or another. No Half-Gnomes running around to my knowledge.
Anyways, magically speaking it could happen I guess, since magic can do everything. I don't know of a Half Elf/Orc, but the stats probably wouldn't be that far off from a human. It probably would have better senses and a slightly longer lifespan. You'll probably have to make the race yourself or you can try poking around in Homebrew.

Half-gnome? This strikes my fancy. Here's a half-breed for ya: half-kobold/giant. Thanks for bringing up the Homebrew section, I tend to forget about it.

[Zetapup]

I think someone has made a race of the half orc/half elf in the homebrew section. I believe they were called the voldur? Sorry I can't be more specific, but it's been a while since I've ventured into the homebrew section.

Edit: Ah, here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=238557) it is.

[gurgleflep]

I think someone has made a race of the half orc/half elf in the homebrew section. I believe they were called the voldur? Sorry I can't be more specific, but it's been a while since I've ventured into the homebrew section.

I'll have to look said race up. Thank you for hinting towards one that's already been made :smallsmile:

[Hand_of_Vecna]

At least by some old lore Black/Grey Orcs are half (or less) Drow. Basically Drow that give birth to babies with deformities leave them where Orcs will find them instead of just killing them as part of the general Drow Eugenics program.

one the other hand if we followed the example of other races elorcs would end up a really boring race. Orc Physicality/dumbness would cancel out Elf Frailty/Intellegence leaving a vanilla race with no distinctive abilities.

+2Dex, -2 Wis, -2 Cha
Elven Frailty cancels out Orcish Strengh, -2 Wis instead of Int to reflect elven intellect and whimsicalness and just to be more distinctive from Half-Orc.
Immunity to magic sleep effects, and a +2 racial saving throw bonus against enchantment spells or effects.
Half Elves have this so they retain it
DarkVision 60ft
Like, Half Orc.
Both Orcblood and Elfblood
Choose: Elven language and Proficiencies or Orcish Language and proficiencies.

[ArcturusV]

Also means like some Half Races their racial Paragon Path would probably have at level 1 "Choose Elf or Orc, you can also gain levels in the Paragon Class of the race you choose".

[Laserlight]

More importantly, why are there no halfling hybrids? Other than the difficulty of what to call them. Three-quarterlings?

[Greenish]

More importantly, why are there no halfling hybrids? Other than the difficulty of what to call them. Three-quarterlings?If you halve a half, you don't get three quarters. :smallconfused:

[gurgleflep]

If you halve a half, you don't get three quarters. :smallconfused:

By three-quarterling, I think he was meaning it would be right between a human and a halfling's height (just a guess as to the other race).

[Gnome Alone]

Chief Krongkrong try make orc/elf hybrid, but pretty elf ladies not seem find Chief Krongrkrong attractive.

[gurgleflep]

Chief Krongkrong try make orc/elf hybrid, but pretty elf ladies not seem find Chief Krongrkrong attractive.

I can't stop laughing at this. This will be cycling through my head for many fortnights.
Mind if I sig this?

[dantiesilva]

Actually there is a book that goes over this. I believe it is third party and not a written story by WotC but the title is Half-Orc blood. And it is a story about two brothers who find out there farther was an elf and only there mother was a orc. One becomes a very deadly necromancer in the first book while the other is a menacing barbarian. not sure if that helps for making the class, but you may be able to find it easier with the name of the book with them in it.

[John Campbell]

:thog: Elf too weak to bear orc child. Also too weak to get child on orc woman.

Try human. Human breed with anything. /:thog:

[Gnome Alone]

I can't stop laughing at this. This will be cycling through my head for many fortnights.
Mind if I sig this?

'Twould be mah pleasure to provide you with yon sig quote. Go for it.

[gurgleflep]

Actually there is a book that goes over this. I believe it is third party and not a written story by WotC but the title is Half-Orc blood. And it is a story about two brothers who find out there farther was an elf and only there mother was a orc. One becomes a very deadly necromancer in the first book while the other is a menacing barbarian. not sure if that helps for making the class, but you may be able to find it easier with the name of the book with them in it.

I'm going to have to locate this book. Do you, by chance, know the author?


:thog: Elf too weak to bear orc child. Also too weak to get child on orc woman.

Try human. Human breed with anything. /:thog:

That's friggin' hilarious :smallbiggrin: holding back a lot of jokes on that one!

[Jeff the Green]

I study evolutionary biology and genetics, so I've actually thought about this. My solution is that there are two species of humanoids: the big group (humans, elves, and orcs) and the little group (dwarves, gnomes, and halflings). In the big group, phenotype (race, effectively) is polygenic—it has multiple genes controlling it—so when two races mate they produce a blend. So an orc mates with a human, it produces a half-orc. Human-elf produces half elf. When an elf mates with an orc, it produces a human.

The small group has phenotype controlled by a single gene. Most dwarves have two copies of the dwarf version (call it D), most gnomes have two copies of the gnome version (G), and most halflings have two copies of the halfling version (G). When two races breed, you get something like DG or GH. H is dominant over G, and D is dominant over both G and H, so DG would be a dwarf, as would DH or DD, while GH is a gnome and only HH is a halfling. So occasionally two dwarves might have a gnome or a halfling child (because the parents are both DH or DG) or two gnomes might have a halfling, or a dwarf and a halfling might have a gnome, etc.

[yougi]

I once played in a game where all Elves were enslaved by an Orcish warlord, and because of their... feminine build, were usually employed as sex slaves. Which led to Orc-Elf, Goblin-Elf, Bugbear-Elf, Troll-Elf, Minotaur-Elf and Ogre-Elf. I once took a quick look at a large (LARGE) table of inter-breeding results that DM had created, with some made up races. IIRC, goblin-elf and halfling-orc gave the same result, but goblin-half-elf gave a different one. Some of the stuff got WAAAAAAAAAAAY weird.

[gurgleflep]

I study evolutionary biology and genetics, so I've actually thought about this. My solution is that there are two species of humanoids: the big group (humans, elves, and orcs) and the little group (dwarves, gnomes, and halflings). In the big group, phenotype (race, effectively) is polygenic—it has multiple genes controlling it—so when two races mate they produce a blend. So an orc mates with a human, it produces a half-orc. Human-elf produces half elf. When an elf mates with an orc, it produces a human.

The small group has phenotype controlled by a single gene. Most dwarves have two copies of the dwarf version (call it D), most gnomes have two copies of the gnome version (G), and most halflings have two copies of the halfling version (G). When two races breed, you get something like DG or GH. H is dominant over G, and D is dominant over both G and H, so DG would be a dwarf, as would DH or DD, while GH is a gnome and only HH is a halfling. So occasionally two dwarves might have a gnome or a halfling child (because the parents are both DH or DG) or two gnomes might have a halfling, or a dwarf and a halfling might have a gnome, etc.

I've not been in school for a little over a year, and I just read some science. I understand it, but hadn't expected it. I love the explanation by the way :smallsmile:


I once played in a game where all Elves were enslaved by an Orcish warlord, and because of their... feminine build, were usually employed as sex slaves. Which led to Orc-Elf, Goblin-Elf, Bugbear-Elf, Troll-Elf, Minotaur-Elf and Ogre-Elf. I once took a quick look at a large (LARGE) table of inter-breeding results that DM had created, with some made up races. IIRC, goblin-elf and halfling-orc gave the same result, but goblin-half-elf gave a different one. Some of the stuff got WAAAAAAAAAAAY weird.

Would you happen to have a copy of said table?

[Gildedragon]

Surprised no one's suggested this yet:

Human is the half-orc half-elf

so on an orc to elfishness scale you get:

Orc - .5 Orc - Human - .5 Elf - Elf

[Jeff the Green]

Surprised no one's suggested this yet:

Human is the half-orc half-elf

so on an orc to elfishness scale you get:

Orc - .5 Orc - Human - .5 Elf - Elf


I study evolutionary biology and genetics, so I've actually thought about this. My solution is that there are two species of humanoids: the big group (humans, elves, and orcs) and the little group (dwarves, gnomes, and halflings). In the big group, phenotype (race, effectively) is polygenic—it has multiple genes controlling it—so when two races mate they produce a blend. So an orc mates with a human, it produces a half-orc. Human-elf produces half elf. When an elf mates with an orc, it produces a human.

Someone did. :smallcool:

[Gildedragon]

Lovely. My bad. I didn't notice the pretty lovely and thorough explanation.

[Kelb_Panthera]

From the supernatural perspective; their progenitor gods have been at odds since the beginning of time and made sure their creations couldn't interbreed when they first made them.

[ddude987]

Dependingon the lore, Orcs ARE elves, changed through magic/evolution/the curse of an angry god.
They definately are in Tolkien based lore.

Do you mean ogres were Elves that got cursed? Becuase that is what I always thought it was... also thought I read that in someplace in the dragonlance saga. Can't remember what book, there are so many.

[Fouredged Sword]

You are thinking of the old ogres. They got mostly cursed with uglyness and stupidity for being evil. A few where LN at the time and avoided the curse. They became tropical island changelings that live on the dragonisles.

[Pancritic]

More importantly, why are there no halfling hybrids? Other than the difficulty of what to call them. Three-quarterlings?I seem to recall and old joke idea of a race that was half a halfling.

Obviously, it was called a farthing.

[Tragak]

This could actually be a good way to have a non-human PC mock a human NPC that was annoying them.

For example: if a human were insulting orcs by saying that half-orcs only exist because orcs are evil and violent, raise the question about why half-elves are more commonly half-human than half-orc, or why half-ogres are more commonly half-human than orc or elf, or why half-giants are more commonly half-human than orc, elf, or ogre, or why half-dragons [and then take a 1d3+2 HP punch to the face before finishing the sentence]

[Callin]

Bastards and Bloodlines by Green Ronin has some weird half races and combos.

Blinkling= Halfling/Blinkdog
Burrower= Gnome/Umberhulk
Kestrel= Halfing/Harpy
Lasher= Dwarf/Roper
Lurker= Gnome/Cloaker
Watcher= Dwarf/Gargoyle

Just to name some of the more funny ones.

[Answerer]

Doesn't Planescape have a race that's a mix of dwarves and celestial badgers, of all things?

[Gnome Alone]

Blinkling= Halfling/Blinkdog

Yikes.

Unrelated question, how much does it cost to have someone cast Dispel Disturbing Mental Image?

[Zubrowka74]

Doesn't Planescape have a race that's a mix of dwarves and celestial badgers, of all things?

GIven that dwarves are often portrayed as having a scottish accent I would have expected celestial sheep.

[Eldan]

In our group it was a joke that a halfling was already a hybrid.

Between humans and lings. Sadly, lings had since died out, and no one knows what they were like.

[Callin]

Yikes.

Unrelated question, how much does it cost to have someone cast Dispel Disturbing Mental Image?

that post goes so well with your Avatar. LOL

[LTwerewolf]

A party was in a forest, being tracked by orcs. They find they can't escape and they're hopelessly outnumbered. The elf shrugs.

Paladin "Why are you shrugging?"
Elf "The orcs will kill me on sight, because they hate me with a passion. You, they'll rape, torture, and eat you over the next few days because they have no real enmity with you."

[hymer]

Dependingon the lore, Orcs ARE elves, changed through magic/evolution/the curse of an angry god.
They definately are in Tolkien based lore.

I don't know if you're saying all lore based on Tolkien has this setup, or that Tolkien himself had this setup for his lore.
In either case, it isn't quite so. I have several examples of lore based on Tolkien, and in none of them did Orcs come from Elves (or vice versa for that matter). And Tolkien himself never settled on just where Orcs came from. The 'corrupted Elves' theory is one of several, all of which he was not entirely satisfied with. He had some drafts where this is the favoured explanation, but he also had some drafts where Gondolin was assaulted with tanks. :smallsmile:
Let's leave out the 'definitely' and not write these rumours near tops of threads, ok?

@ Jeff: Cool explanation! Can you account for hobgoblin/goblin/orc interbreeding too?

[Jeff the Green]

@ Jeff: Cool explanation! Can you account for hobgoblin/goblin/orc interbreeding too?

Sure, if you wanted to. You mean like hobgoblins and goblins can breed with orcs? Depends on what you want the hybrid to be. Let's say a goblin x orc cross is a hobgoblin. Goblins are orcs with two mutant versions in the gob gene, which causes stunted growth and facial malformations but also a larger brain. When an orc and a goblin mate, they produce offspring with one mutant version and one wildtype version. These don't have the same degree of stunting as goblins but do have the facial malformations and larger brain.

A caveat, though. I'm postulating single genes with large effects, which would be rather unusual in real life. Most mutations with large effects generally just cause diseases, but this conjecturing is possible, if highly unlikely.

Another possibility is something like a ring species, which is a little more plausible. Basically, we have orcs start on one side of a mountain range. As they spread around it both ways, they differentiate. As they go one way they become humans and then elves, one way they become hobgoblins and then goblins. When the goblins and elves meet up on the other side, they're completely different species and can't mate, though a goblin can mate with a hobgoblin which can mate with an orc which can mate with a human which can mate with an elf. This actually happens fairly frequently; a good example is gull species around the arctic circle.

[Eldan]

Hm. I've always just postulated an array of quantitative genes for the orc-elf spectrum, with the definition "human" making up a large part of the middle of the spectrum and a wide array of phenotypes.

[hamishspence]

Another possibility is something like a ring species, which is a little more plausible. Basically, we have orcs start on one side of a mountain range. As they spread around it both ways, they differentiate. As they go one way they become humans and then elves, one way they become hobgoblins and then goblins. When the goblins and elves meet up on the other side, they're completely different species and can't mate, though a goblin can mate with a hobgoblin which can mate with an orc which can mate with a human which can mate with an elf. This actually happens fairly frequently; a good example is gull species around the arctic circle.

Wikipedia goes into more detail
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_species

though apparently in the case of gulls, it gets a bit more complicated for at least some of the species in that region.

[Jeff the Green]

Hm. I've always just postulated an array of quantitative genes for the orc-elf spectrum, with the definition "human" making up a large part of the middle of the spectrum and a wide array of phenotypes.

Yeah, that's basically what I said. Though the idea of human diversity is interesting. You could imagine a graph where the x-axis is the orc/human/elf phenotype and the y axis is diversity in other phenotypes. You might get something like a normal curve, with the mode at human. (Though for the most part there aren't human subraces, but there are quite a few elf ones.) I don't know what might cause that, though. Maybe just humans occupying a much more diverse range of habitats.

[Callin]

Race Evolution like how we have Black, White, Indian, ect and maybe a dash of Inbreeding lol.

[Unusual Muse]

Here's what my gaming group came up with:

Elf-Orc Halfbreed:
• +2 strength, +2 Dexterity, -2 Constitution, -2 charisma.
• Medium: no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
• base land speed is 30 feet.
• +1 racial saving throw bonus against enchantment spells or effects.
• Darkvision out to 60 feet.
• +1 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks.
• Automatic Languages: Common, Elven or Orc.
• Favored Class: ranger

[Answerer]

That looks really weak. I know Orc is a fairly-weak race, but that's just really bad.

[gurgleflep]

From the supernatural perspective; their progenitor gods have been at odds since the beginning of time and made sure their creations couldn't interbreed when they first made them.

While the gods are enemies, Lolth and Gruumsh have teamed up IIRC. Couldn't that lead to them creating some foul, evil, strong and smart race just to further torment other races?


Bastards and Bloodlines by Green Ronin has some weird half races and combos.

Blinkling= Halfling/Blinkdog
Burrower= Gnome/Umberhulk
Kestrel= Halfing/Harpy
Lasher= Dwarf/Roper
Lurker= Gnome/Cloaker
Watcher= Dwarf/Gargoyle

Just to name some of the more funny ones.

I've got this book! I'm currently DMing a (practice) game with the watcher and the quadruped elf/centaur hybrid (sorry, the name escapes me)


Doesn't Planescape have a race that's a mix of dwarves and celestial badgers, of all things?

Badgers..? I love badgers... The only badgeresque race I can think of though is in the Planar Handbook.

[ArcturusV]

Hmm. Seems decent.

So taking a stab at an Elorc Paragon Class:

Class Skills: Balance, Climb, Heal, Jump, Listen, Search, Spot, Survival, Use Rope.

Skill Points at level one: 4 + Intelligence Modifier x 4.
Skill Points per level: 4 + Intelligence Modifier.

1st Level:
+0 BAB, +2 Reflex Save, +0 Will Save. +0 Fort Save.
2nd Level:
+1 BAB, +3 Reflex Save, +0 Will Save, +0 Fort Save.
3rd Level:
+2 BAB, +3 Reflex Save, +1 Will Save, +1 Fort Save.

An Elorc Paragon is proficient with all Simple Weapons and Light Armor. Choose 2 Martial Weapons to be proficient in.

Adaptive Bloodline: At level 1 choose Elf or Orc. You may take levels in the Paragon Class of the chosen race.

Heart of the Wilds: At Level 1, the Elorc may Ki Frenzy 1/day, as per the Sohei Class. This daily use stacks with other classes that grant Ki Frenzy.

Spellcasting: At level 2 and again at level 3, add +1 Spellcasting to an existing divine spellcasting class for the effects of spells known, spells per day, and caster level. This has no effect if you were not already a member of a divine spellcasting class prior to taking the level in Elorc Paragon.

Stat Bonus: At level 3, the Elorc Paragon gains a +2 untyped bonus to either Strength or Dexterity.

[gurgleflep]

Just realized there was a second page!


Yikes.

Unrelated question, how much does it cost to have someone cast Dispel Disturbing Mental Image?

What did you picture, the outcome, or the "making of?"


GIven that dwarves are often portrayed as having a scottish accent I would have expected celestial sheep.

Somewhere, there's a group of people playing banjos... (no offense to anybody here who plays banjos, ya'll're awesome!)


A party was in a forest, being tracked by orcs. They find they can't escape and they're hopelessly outnumbered. The elf shrugs.

Paladin "Why are you shrugging?"
Elf "The orcs will kill me on sight, because they hate me with a passion. You, they'll rape, torture, and eat you over the next few days because they have no real enmity with you."

I like this, but why do I feel as though I've heard it before?

[gurgleflep]

Here's what my gaming group came up with:

Elf-Orc Halfbreed:
• +2 strength, +2 Dexterity, -2 Constitution, -2 charisma.
• Medium: no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.
• base land speed is 30 feet.
• +1 racial saving throw bonus against enchantment spells or effects.
• Darkvision out to 60 feet.
• +1 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks.
• Automatic Languages: Common, Elven or Orc.
• Favored Class: ranger

I like it. :smallsmile:
Shouldn't it have (in cases where blood's a big deal) orc and elven blood lines?


Hmm. Seems decent.

So taking a stab at an Elorc Paragon Class:

Class Skills: Balance, Climb, Heal, Jump, Listen, Search, Spot, Survival, Use Rope.

Skill Points at level one: 4 + Intelligence Modifier x 4.
Skill Points per level: 4 + Intelligence Modifier.

1st Level:
+0 BAB, +2 Reflex Save, +0 Will Save. +0 Fort Save.
2nd Level:
+1 BAB, +3 Reflex Save, +0 Will Save, +0 Fort Save.
3rd Level:
+2 BAB, +3 Reflex Save, +1 Will Save, +1 Fort Save.

An Elorc Paragon is proficient with all Simple Weapons and Light Armor. Choose 2 Martial Weapons to be proficient in.

Adaptive Bloodline: At level 1 choose Elf or Orc. You may take levels in the Paragon Class of the chosen race.

Heart of the Wilds: At Level 1, the Elorc may Ki Frenzy 1/day, as per the Sohei Class. This daily use stacks with other classes that grant Ki Frenzy.

Spellcasting: At level 2 and again at level 3, add +1 Spellcasting to an existing divine spellcasting class for the effects of spells known, spells per day, and caster level. This has no effect if you were not already a member of a divine spellcasting class prior to taking the level in Elorc Paragon.

Stat Bonus: At level 3, the Elorc Paragon gains a +2 untyped bonus to either Strength or Dexterity.

What exactly is the point of a Paragon? I've never really understood them.

[ArcturusV]

Well, most of them carry stat benefits. They don't count for Multiclassing XP purposes either so if you have room to dip it's not bad. Particularly if you rolled fairly crappy and need the Stat boost. Usually have other bonuses like free feats, skill lists, etc. Most races that make decent spellcasters also have 2/3 Spellcaster progression so you don't lose TOO much by taking it. Though yes, you do lose a bit.

[gurgleflep]

Well, most of them carry stat benefits. They don't count for Multiclassing XP purposes either so if you have room to dip it's not bad. Particularly if you rolled fairly crappy and need the Stat boost. Usually have other bonuses like free feats, skill lists, etc. Most races that make decent spellcasters also have 2/3 Spellcaster progression so you don't lose TOO much by taking it. Though yes, you do lose a bit.

This is an explanation I can easily understand. Thank you for helping me out :smallsmile:

[Anium]

I always though it was just like eye color thing, strongest genes win, so if an orc rapes an elf, she just gives birth to a less ugly orc.

[dantiesilva]

The Weight of Blood (The Half-Orcs, Book 1)

David Dalglish is the author, the way they described it in the book was their were the elves at the beginning and they had two gods that were all about justice and such, kind of like Hextor and Heirnous. Humans somehow found a way to their land and they became friends. The elfs helped them like is the normal story humans start warring with each other like they always do.

Some of the elfs choose to side with the humans, creating the first fight between the two brothers ever. It created a bloody war were undead were brought into existence and such and ended with the evil brothers followers being cursed to look like they acted on the inside, thus becoming orcs.

Basically as the story went on you learned that they looked exactly like an Orc and only magic was able to find out that they were not half orcs, but half orc/ Half elf.

The mother was an Orc and the farther was an elf who had self esteem issues. I believe he felt pitty for his fallen breathen and so yea he made love to an orc then ran away. They showed all the tendieces of Orcs, but with the ability to control/Use magic items as if they were elves. I hope this helps you out with deciding. I would put it at

+2Str, -2Dex, +2Int,-2 Cha

Showing that though they retain the strength of the orcs they are not as nimbul as the elves nor as beautiful. But they have some reasoning skills and are not stupid like most orcs.

[John Campbell]

A party was in a forest, being tracked by orcs. They find they can't escape and they're hopelessly outnumbered. The elf shrugs.

Paladin "Why are you shrugging?"
Elf "The orcs will kill me on sight, because they hate me with a passion. You, they'll rape, torture, and eat you over the next few days because they have no real enmity with you."

:thog: Elf not be so smug when find out how we kill on sight. /:thog:

[gurgleflep]

The Weight of Blood (The Half-Orcs, Book 1)

David Dalglish is the author, the way they described it in the book was their were the elves at the beginning and they had two gods that were all about justice and such, kind of like Hextor and Heirnous. Humans somehow found a way to their land and they became friends. The elfs helped them like is the normal story humans start warring with each other like they always do.

Some of the elfs choose to side with the humans, creating the first fight between the two brothers ever. It created a bloody war were undead were brought into existence and such and ended with the evil brothers followers being cursed to look like they acted on the inside, thus becoming orcs.

Basically as the story went on you learned that they looked exactly like an Orc and only magic was able to find out that they were not half orcs, but half orc/ Half elf.

The mother was an Orc and the farther was an elf who had self esteem issues. I believe he felt pitty for his fallen breathen and so yea he made love to an orc then ran away. They showed all the tendieces of Orcs, but with the ability to control/Use magic items as if they were elves. I hope this helps you out with deciding. I would put it at

+2Str, -2Dex, +2Int,-2 Cha

Showing that though they retain the strength of the orcs they are not as nimbul as the elves nor as beautiful. But they have some reasoning skills and are not stupid like most orcs.

Actually, this is quite helpful :smallsmile: Aaaaand I've got yet another book (series?) to read!


:thog: Elf not be so smug when find out how we kill on sight. /:thog:

Sir, I love these quotes. If you knew who to send it to, you could make some fair money with them.

[Frozen_Feet]

...so if an orc rapes an elf...

Why do you think it will go that way? :smalltongue: Maybe young elf-maidens just have a thing for well-muscled orc lads, instead of limp-wristed elf-boy nerds.

[gurgleflep]

Why do you think it will go that way? :smalltongue: Maybe young elf-maidens just have a thing for well-muscled orc lads, instead of limp-wristed elf-boy nerds.

The image this comment has put into my head is slightly disturbing. I thank you...

[ArcturusV]

Thus why I like that OotS page about the "Suggested ugly backstory" behind the half orc.

[gurgleflep]

Thus why I like that OotS page about the "Suggested ugly backstory" behind the half orc.

Would you be able to link to that? I'm curious.

[ArcturusV]

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0555.html

There's the link to it.

[gurgleflep]

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0555.html

There's the link to it.

Thank you very much :thog:

[ShurikVch]

Please, check the desription of wood elf subrace. Isn't it nearly perfect mechanical mix of elven and orcish traits? Even favored class (ranger) can count as mix of barbarian and wizard...


Dependingon the lore, Orcs ARE elves, changed through magic/evolution/the curse of an angry god.
They definately are in Tolkien based lore.
Orcs appeared in mithos way before the Tolkien. Grendel from the "Beowulf" was an orc. Completely unrelated to any elves...

In the world of Chronicles of Siala elves are subspecies of orcs. In this world Orcs called Firstborn (Wrongly, ogres arose earlier, but even they weren't the first!..) Anyway, local elves have strong orcish looks (tusks and all), just more slender and graceful then "true" orcs.

In the series "Странные приключения Ингви, короля-демона из Харькова" (Strange adventures of Ingvi, the king-demon from Kharkov) orcs are product of crossbreeding between childrens of local dark god from human, elven and dwarwen females. If local orcs will crossbreed with some of aforementioned races, childrens also will be orcs, just more alike to other parent. (Orcs hate dwarves and elves with fiery passion, so actually never interbreed with them. But share absolutely human standards of beauty, and in fact steal human females at every possibility. They are sorta forced to do it with sex ratio 4 females on 10 males. Virtually all orcish aristocracy are half-orcs, or, at least, human-blooded...)

[gurgleflep]

Please, check the desription of wood elf subrace. Isn't it nearly perfect mechanical mix of elven and orcish traits? Even favored class (ranger) can count as mix of barbarian and wizard...


Orcs appeared in mithos way before the Tolkien. Grendel from the "Beowulf" was an orc. Completely unrelated to any elves...

In the world of Chronicles of Siala elves are subspecies of orcs. In this world Orcs called Firstborn (Wrongly, ogres arose earlier, but even they weren't the first!..) Anyway, local elves have strong orcish looks (tusks and all), just more slender and graceful then "true" orcs.

In the series "Странные приключения Ингви, короля-демона из Харькова" (Strange adventures of Ingvi, the king-demon from Kharkov) orcs are product of crossbreeding between childrens of local dark god from human, elven and dwarwen females. If local orcs will crossbreed with some of aforementioned races, childrens also will be orcs, just more alike to other parent. (Orcs hate dwarves and elves with fiery passion, so actually never interbreed with them. But share absolutely human standards of beauty, and in fact steal human females at every possibility. They are sorta forced to do it with sex ratio 4 females on 10 males. Virtually all orcish aristocracy are half-orcs, or, at least, human-blooded...)

What book will I find this race in?
I've got to look up Chronicles and Strange Adventures... By the way, how in the world are you able to pronounce/translate that, and do they have a version of that in english?

[ShurikVch]

What book will I find this race in?Wood elves? Monster Manual, pg. 104

I've got to look up Chronicles and Strange Adventures... By the way, how in the world are you able to pronounce/translate that, and do they have a version of that in english?
THE CHRONICLES OF SIALA (http://www.alexeypehov.com/books.html)
"Strange Adventures..." appearently wasn't translated, at least for now. Author's homepage (http://ingvi.narod.ru/) even haven't an English version, just Deutsch one
(I translated the name with electronic translator)

[gurgleflep]

Wood elves? Monster Manual, pg. 104

THE CHRONICLES OF SIALA (http://www.alexeypehov.com/books.html)
"Strange Adventures..." appearently wasn't translated, at least for now. Author's homepage (http://ingvi.narod.ru/) even haven't an English version, just Deutsch one
(I translated the name with electronic translator)

One of the main books? I've passed that over on many occasions, so I feel rather unintelligent at the moment.
Thank you for linking :smallsmile: I'll take a look at them ASAP.

[Shining Wrath]

More importantly, why are there no halfling hybrids? Other than the difficulty of what to call them. Three-quarterlings?

Same reason you don't see many Gnome half-breeds. They are too small for the necessary activities with normal sized races. Now, a halfling-gnome could be very nice, and I propose someone create one.

[gurgleflep]

Same reason you don't see many Gnome half-breeds. They are too small for the necessary activities with normal sized races. Now, a halfling-gnome could be very nice, and I propose someone create one.

I second this, but with the addition of the halfling/goblin and the gnome/blue.
Thanks to a template somebody made though, we could do it ourselves! I've fiddled with it a little bit. If you want to use it, here's the link for it: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=276074
Remember to thank him!

[The Random NPC]

Human: "Hey, elf, you look like a girl!"
Elf: "You're a human, everything must look like a girl to you."
Human: "What's that supposed to mean?"
Elf: "Half-elves, half-orcs, half-dragons, half-celestials, half-fiends..."
Human: "Shut up."
Elf: "Half-fey, half-elementals, half-giants, half-ogres, half-trolls, half-vampires, half-golems..."
Human: "SHUT. UP."
Elf: "..."
Human: "..."
Dwarf: "..."
Elf: "Centaurs."

Here's something from our very own moderator, Glyphstone.

[gurgleflep]

He's got quite the sense of humor. The elf in that has a good point though, humans'll get with anything.
These are the only forums I use (for anything), and I find the community to be rather nice here. Homebrew, 4E players, PF and 3.5 players, etc. Ya'll're nice :smallsmile:

[Tanuki Tales]

Orcs appeared in mithos way before the Tolkien.

No. No they didn't. The etymology for what would eventually evolve into the word predated Tolkien's work, but he is the creator of the concept of Orcs as a race of anything.


Grendel from the "Beowulf" was an orc. Completely unrelated to any elves...

No, he wasn't. Technically, Grendel was a human being since he and his mother are called "descendants of Cain".

[Cerlis]

There are half breeds of all kinds. the reason why they arent statted out is because they arent common enough to require stats. Humans interact with Elves and Orcs frequently. becaues of good or bad reasons.

No reason why they couldnt with others but in every genre i've never seen any of the small races even make a pass at a tall lady.


Also bastards and bloodlines does have a Elf/Hobgoblins combo. Think its just under Half Goblin, in which it has stats for a Goblin/halfing, Hobgoblin/elf, and Bugbear human i think.

and the book is better than anyone who mentions it makes it seem. because of the fact that most of the combos are achieved via magic or whatnot. For instance a Watcher is a Dead dwarf soul put INTO a gargoyle. not a gargoyle Dwarf hybrid. A blinkling is a halfing fused with a blink dog by Yondalla to give them powers to defend their tribe..

The half Dwarf, half Winter wolf is very unfortunate though...

[gurgleflep]

Also bastards and bloodlines does have a Elf/Hobgoblins combo. Think its just under Half Goblin, in which it has stats for a Goblin/halfing, Hobgoblin/elf, and Bugbear human i think.

and the book is better than anyone who mentions it makes it seem. because of the fact that most of the combos are achieved via magic or whatnot. For instance a Watcher is a Dead dwarf soul put INTO a gargoyle. not a gargoyle Dwarf hybrid. A blinkling is a halfing fused with a blink dog by Yondalla to give them powers to defend their tribe..

The half Dwarf, half Winter wolf is very unfortunate though...

I actually quite like the book, other than one race: Mindripper. I read through it's "How it came to be" thing, and flipped a biscuit over it.
I'll have to remember the Watcher thing, somebody in a practice campaign I'm running is playing as one. Winter Wolf/Dwarf? Wendigo, I think is the name of it. I'll have to look it up, I've got the book on hand fortunately.

[Kelb_Panthera]

While the gods are enemies, Lolth and Gruumsh have teamed up IIRC. Couldn't that lead to them creating some foul, evil, strong and smart race just to further torment other races?

Doubtful. While they may, on occasion, work together toward the downfall of the surface elves, Grumsh and Lloth certainly don't trust one another anywhere near enough to co-create a new race. Lloth may not even be capable of such. The lore says that she "created" the drow by altering her elven followers that were created by Correlon when she was still known as Araushnee.

Completely unrelated note: the badger-dwarves are known as wildren, IIRC. Their official 3.X stats are in the planar handbook.

[ArcturusV]

Huh. Last I heard the rewrite of Drow Lore was currently that the Drow were a subset of elves, which got attacked by other elves. The Drow then went into War Mode since they were under attack. Killed other elves. Then Correlon, being a ****, cursed all the "Drow" into actual Drow. THEN Lolth moves in as their patron goddess.

Not that Drow Backstories keep getting rewritten or anything. :smallsigh:

Also the Gruumsh/Lolth Alliance apparently was just the result of a WotC encounters session campaign in 4th edition from what I've been able to find out. And it wasn't so much "Alliance" as "A group of Drow guided by Lolth enslaved some Orcs who worship Gruumsh into being their chump blockers/expendable troops".

Not that I'm saying it's impossible that such a thing would have happened. Just that it wasn't really so much an "Alliance" as one side exploiting the other.

Interestingly if I was going to use Drow I'd peg it more on that Male Drow God of Thieves who's name I always forget... Vaesomething, because I'm bad with names.

Mostly because one of his goals is taking over the surface world. And one of his follower's methods HAS been breeding drow with surface elves and humans, because they tend to breed true to Drow. But even the ones who are not pure drowish are kept by them.

[ShurikVch]

More importantly, why are there no halfling hybrids? Other than the difficulty of what to call them. Three-quarterlings?
Actually, there are numerous templates half-<something> and all of them allicable to halflings!
Half-Celestial
Half-Doppelganger
Half-Dragon
Half-Elemental – Air
Half-Elemental – Earth
Half-Elemental – Fire
Half-Elemental – Water
Half-Fey
Half-Fiend
Half-Golem – Brass
Half-Golem – Clay
Half-Golem – Dragonflesh
Half-Golem – Flesh
Half-Golem – Iron
Half-Golem – Stained Glass
Half-Golem – Stone
Half-Machine
Half-Illithid
Half-Janni
Half-Minotaur
Half-Nymph
Half-Ogre
Half-Rakshasa
Half-Satyr
Half-Scrag
Half-Troll
Half-Vampire
Katane (another half-vampire)
Hivebrood (half-Formian)


Human: "Hey, elf, you look like a girl!"
Elf: "You're a human, everything must look like a girl to you."
Human: "What's that supposed to mean?"
Elf: "Half-elves, half-orcs, half-dragons, half-celestials, half-fiends..."
Human: "Shut up."
Elf: "Half-fey, half-elementals, half-giants, half-ogres, half-trolls, half-vampires, half-golems..."
Human: "SHUT. UP."
Elf: "..."
Human: "..."
Dwarf: "..."
Elf: "Centaurs."
Mention of half-golems are unfair, because they are not from crossbreeding. Otherwise... "Family Gathering" (http://www.elfwood.com/u/andersson2/image/4d134a30-23da-11e4-9fb0-6fd3a883da45/family-gathering)

[Clistenes]

The Kalamar Campaing Setting offers stats for orc/elf hybrids the tel-amhothlan: +2 Dexterity, -2 Intelligence, -2 Charisma, Medium size, base speed is 30 feet, Low-light vision, +1 racial bonus on saving throws against enchantment spells and effects, +1 racial bonus on Listen, Search and Spot checks, Orc Blood, Favored Class: Fighter.


They are said to be extremely rare, and the elves vehemently deny their existance, and they are never raised among elves. Even elven mothers tend to abandon them, and even if one of them would raise her hybrid baby, the other elves will never accept them and drive them away.
When one of them pops out, people usually just mistakes them for skinny half-orcs.

[Answerer]

There are half breeds of all kinds. the reason why they arent statted out is because they arent common enough to require stats. Humans interact with Elves and Orcs frequently. becaues of good or bad reasons.
[Citation Needed]

I have never seen any indication in any book that this is the case.

[hamishspence]

No. No they didn't. The etymology for what would eventually evolve into the word predated Tolkien's work, but he is the creator of the concept of Orcs as a race of anything.
The creatures called that, pre-Tolkien, tended to be more like demons or ogres.

[ShurikVch]

... but he is the creator of the concept of Orcs as a race of anything.
Please, check fantasy novels The Princess and the Goblin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Princess_and_the_Goblin) and The Princess and Curdie (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Princess_and_Curdie), and find 10 differences between local goblins and Tolkien's orcs. And no, name doesn't count, because in The Hobbit (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hobbit) they still called goblins! :smalltongue:

In the book series "Наемники Судьбы" orcs are magically-altered, cursed folk. Their ancestors was goblins.

[Clistenes]

No. No they didn't. The etymology for what would eventually evolve into the word predated Tolkien's work, but he is the creator of the concept of Orcs as a race of anything.

"Orco" means "ogre" in italian and other european languages.

[Jeff the Green]

"Orco" means "ogre" in italian and other european languages.

Which comes from the Latin "Orcus," a god of the underword and, in later parlance, a demon. Orc/ork also means "demon" in Old English and Old Saxon.

[gurgleflep]

Doubtful. While they may, on occasion, work together toward the downfall of the surface elves, Grumsh and Lloth certainly don't trust one another anywhere near enough to co-create a new race. Lloth may not even be capable of such. The lore says that she "created" the drow by altering her elven followers that were created by Correlon when she was still known as Araushnee.

Completely unrelated note: the badger-dwarves are known as wildren, IIRC. Their official 3.X stats are in the planar handbook.

Okay, if they weren't willing to trust each other, could I just go with the typical "A wizard did it!" response?
Planar Handbook? I actually own this one! One of the three I personally own :smallsmile:


Also the Gruumsh/Lolth Alliance apparently was just the result of a WotC encounters session campaign in 4th edition from what I've been able to find out. And it wasn't so much "Alliance" as "A group of Drow guided by Lolth enslaved some Orcs who worship Gruumsh into being their chump blockers/expendable troops".

Not that I'm saying it's impossible that such a thing would have happened. Just that it wasn't really so much an "Alliance" as one side exploiting the other.

Interestingly if I was going to use Drow I'd peg it more on that Male Drow God of Thieves who's name I always forget... Vaesomething, because I'm bad with names.

Mostly because one of his goals is taking over the surface world. And one of his follower's methods HAS been breeding drow with surface elves and humans, because they tend to breed true to Drow. But even the ones who are not pure drowish are kept by them.

So, would it be safe to have them allied in a campaign? Not necessarily the deities as much as their followers (Cleric of Gruumsh and a High Priestess of Lolth).
The drow deity you're thinking of is one of Lolth's children IIRC. Eilistraee is Araushnee/Lolth and Corellon's daughter, Vhaeraun is their son.


Actually, there are numerous templates half-<something> and all of them allicable to halflings!
Half-Celestial
Half-Doppelganger
Half-Dragon
Half-Elemental – Air
Half-Elemental – Earth
Half-Elemental – Fire
Half-Elemental – Water
Half-Fey
Half-Fiend
Half-Golem – Brass
Half-Golem – Clay
Half-Golem – Dragonflesh
Half-Golem – Flesh
Half-Golem – Iron
Half-Golem – Stained Glass
Half-Golem – Stone
Half-Machine
Half-Illithid
Half-Janni
Half-Minotaur
Half-Nymph
Half-Ogre
Half-Rakshasa
Half-Satyr
Half-Scrag
Half-Troll
Half-Vampire
Katane (another half-vampire)
Hivebrood (half-Formian)


Mention of half-golems are unfair, because they are not from crossbreeding. Otherwise... "Family Gathering" (http://andersson.elfwood.com/Family-Gathering.2524339.html)

Wow, there's a lot more templates than I had realized :smalleek: On that note, does anybody have a link to the master template list?


The Kalamar Campaing Setting offers stats for orc/elf hybrids the tel-amhothlan: +2 Dexterity, -2 Intelligence, -2 Charisma, Medium size, base speed is 30 feet, Low-light vision, +1 racial bonus on saving throws against enchantment spells and effects, +1 racial bonus on Listen, Search and Spot checks, Orc Blood, Favored Class: Fighter.


They are said to be extremely rare, and the elves vehemently deny their existance, and they are never raised among elves. Even elven mothers tend to abandon them, and even if one of them would raise her hybrid baby, the other elves will never accept them and drive them away.
When one of them pops out, people usually just mistakes them for skinny half-orcs.

Rare would make sense, seeing as the two races don't get along with one another. Thanks for the racial stuff by the way :smallsmile:


As for all of the other infomation that's orc related, thank you all. I'm learning! :smallbiggrin:

[John Campbell]

They are said to be extremely rare, and the elves vehemently deny their existance, and they are never raised among elves. Even elven mothers tend to abandon them, and even if one of them would raise her hybrid baby, the other elves will never accept them and drive them away.
:thog: Thing like this why hate elfs. Elfs jerks. Then say they good ones. Orcs not drive away baby for be half-breed. Lots of half-breed in tribe. I half-breed. Raise as orc warrior! If strong, will thrive!

But probably not, for elf blood make weak. My blood human, make strong, fast, and smart. /:thog:

[ShurikVch]

Wow, there's a lot more templates than I had realized :smalleek: On that note, does anybody have a link to the master template list? Master Template List (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19869266/Master_Template_List) List not complete, missing entries from magazines:
Half-Doppelganger (DR313 p93)
Half-Machine (DU91 p106)
Half-Minotaur (DR313 p94)
Half-Nymph (DR313 p95)
Half-Ogre (DR313 p94)
Half-Rakshasa (DR313 p96)
Half-Satyr (DR313 p96)
Katane (another half-vampire) (DR313 p64)
Hivebrood (half-Formian) (DU127 p31)
Also, a little more "halves":
Fetch (half-ghost) (DR313 p62)
Gheden (half- mindless undead) (DR313 p63)
Alu-Demon (half-succubus) (DR355 p010)
Lemorian (half-fiend variant) (DU143 p55) (DU146 p66)
More half-fiends (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060630a)
Even more half-fiends (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/eo/20070209a)
Half-Farspawn

[Themrys]

Why do you think it will go that way? :smalltongue: Maybe young elf-maidens just have a thing for well-muscled orc lads, instead of limp-wristed elf-boy nerds.

And I am sure there is some bard with fair elvish face and gentle manners out there who can easily seduce the orc-maidens who are fed up with the dumb and brutish orc men. :smalltongue:

:elan: Seducing female enemies is part of my job!

[Coidzor]

Same reason you don't see many Gnome half-breeds. They are too small for the necessary activities with normal sized races. Now, a halfling-gnome could be very nice, and I propose someone create one.

Not really. Considering that humans are able to give birth to half-ogres with at least the offspring surviving with enough consistency for them to be a thing, there's some precedent against halflings being unable to handle a fetus with human parentage due to it being too large.

As for the other thing, D&D is a world where humans are capable of having sex with pixies, dog, cats, dragons, manticores, celestial badgers, unicorns, ogres, aboleths, illithids, demons, and angels which are just sapient balls of light tooling around in illusory bodies. There's some non-trivial overlap between halflings that can schtup a human and humans who can schtup a halfling.


And I am sure there is some bard with fair elvish face and gentle manners out there who can easily seduce the orc-maidens who are fed up with the dumb and brutish orc men. :smalltongue:

I think there's some confusion about orcish culture going on here. :smalltongue:


Huh. Last I heard the rewrite of Drow Lore was currently that the Drow were a subset of elves, which got attacked by other elves. The Drow then went into War Mode since they were under attack. Killed other elves. Then Correlon, being a ****, cursed all the "Drow" into actual Drow. THEN Lolth moves in as their patron goddess.

Not that Drow Backstories keep getting rewritten or anything. :smallsigh:

I believe the Joker sums it up pretty well.
Sometimes I remember it one way, sometimes another... If I'm going to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!


Not that I'm saying it's impossible that such a thing would have happened. Just that it wasn't really so much an "Alliance" as one side exploiting the other.

Given the sophistry inherent in D&D evil, it's about 50-50 whether they'd call it an alliance though.

[gurgleflep]

As for the other thing, D&D is a world where humans are capable of having sex with pixies, dog, cats, dragons, manticores, celestial badgers, unicorns, ogres, aboleths, illithids, demons, and angels which are just sapient balls of light tooling around in illusory bodies. There's some non-trivial overlap between halflings that can schtup a human and humans who can schtup a halfling.

They don't sex-up illithids. Those are created through the tadpole eating the brain of the human and turning them into a full illithid.

[hamishspence]

The half-illithid template (Underdark, in its most recent form) may be what's referred to- though that makes it clear that it's usually experimentation that's the cause.

However, there's an "illithid-blooded" feat in Dragon, as well, and an Illithid Heritage feat in Complete Psionic- for those with "an illithid ancestor somewhere in their bloodline."

[Coidzor]

They don't sex-up illithids. Those are created through the tadpole eating the brain of the human and turning them into a full illithid.

Maybe I'm misremembering where half-illithids come from then, since I definitely remember them as *NOT* coming from botched attempts to make regular old, boring mind flayers.

In any event, at some point a human has successfully sexed up an illithid somehow or vice-versa. Offspring does not necessarily need to occur, given that wasn't the point I was making with that particular subpoint, as I was arguing against the idea that humans and halflings are incapable of hanky-panky simply because of the size difference.

[gurgleflep]

Maybe I'm misremembering where half-illithids come from then, since I definitely remember them as *NOT* coming from botched attempts to make regular old, boring mind flayers.

In any event, at some point a human has successfully sexed up an illithid somehow or vice-versa. Offspring does not necessarily need to occur, given that wasn't the point I was making with that particular subpoint, as I was arguing against the idea that humans and halflings are incapable of hanky-panky simply because of the size difference.

Half-illithids are created when the tadpole is placed inside the ear of any race that's non-human (that can aquire the template) such as dragons, orcs, trolls, elves, dogs, lizardfolk, etc.
I'm still wondering if the tadpole could be placed into the ear of an illithid - if they do indeed have ears - and take the place of the previous tadpole after devouring it.

Edit: I've seen nothing saying that Half-Illithid can't breed. Maybe that's how they occur?

[hamishspence]

Half-illithids are created when the tadpole is placed inside the ear of any race that's non-human (that can aquire the template) such as dragons, orcs, trolls, elves, dogs, lizardfolk, etc.?

That's Fiend Folio half-illithids- though that template's limited to humanoids other than humans (so no animals, dragons, giants, etc).

Underdark half-illithids, however, can be "any corporeal creature that's not a construct":

"Half-illithids are the progeny of mind flayers and various other creatures. Most often, such progeny are formed through magical tampering with the reproductive processes of the host creature, rather than direct mating."

And "most often" is not "always".

You can have half-illithid humans, using those rules.

(Technically, you could even have half-illithid undead- after all, it doesn't say Living Creature).

[Clistenes]

Same reason you don't see many Gnome half-breeds. They are too small for the necessary activities with normal sized races. Now, a halfling-gnome could be very nice, and I propose someone create one.

There are stats for half-gnomes in Kalamar: +2 Wisdom, -2 Strength, Medium size (but shorter than most humans), Base speed of 25 feet (movement when encumbered by armor counts as 15 feet), Low-light Vision, Gnome Blood, +1 racial bonus on saving throws against illusions, +1 racial bonus on Listen and Craft (alchemy) checks, Favored Class: Bard.

At least in Faerun halflings/human hybrids belong to the race of either parent. The children of halfling women and male humans are always halflings, but the children of human women and male halflings can go either way.

There are half-kenders in the sourcebook "Races of Ansalon": Medium Sized, kender subtype (I guess that works like "Kender Blood"), base land speed is 30 feet, +4 racial bonus on saving throws against fear, +1 racial bonus on Spot checks, +1 racial bonus on Open Locks and Sleight of Hand checks (half-kender can use these two abilities as though they were trained, even if they have 0 ranks in the skills), +2 racial bonus on all Bluff checks to taunt someone, Weapon Familiarity (kender weapons), Favored Class: Any.

[Flame of Anor]

Please, check the desription of wood elf subrace. Isn't it nearly perfect mechanical mix of elven and orcish traits? Even favored class (ranger) can count as mix of barbarian and wizard...

Did someone say Barbarian Wizard? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195049)

[gurgleflep]

Did someone say Barbarian Wizard? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195049)

This link has piked my interest. I'm going to enjoy this!

[Squirrel_Dude]

Half-orcs are one of the more looked-down-on/disliked species on among humans, partly because of how rare consensual pairings between the two species are. It would only be less so for elves and orcs. Their hatred isn't just racial, it's also religious. Corellon's most hated enemy is Gruumsh. I can hardly imagine how horrible life would be as a half-elf/half-orc. That would be one of the worst childhoods all time.

The next runner-up would probably be half-orc/half-dwarf.

[Greenish]

If half-orcs are one of the more looked-down-on/disliked species on among humans, partly because of how rare consensual pairings between the two species areYay for Eberron and less squick!

[Cerlis]

[Citation Needed]

I have never seen any indication in any book that this is the case.

I guess i can just read through every DnD book i've ever read.....

[hamishspence]

I have never seen any indication in any book that this is the case.

Mongrelfolk in Fiend Folio and Races of Destiny- an example of the ultimate in mixed heritage, they can automatically emulate any humanoid race.

[dantiesilva]

Half-orc meets half elf makes
Half human/ 1 4th elf/ 1 4th orc

In essence it could very easily happen.

[aphoticConniver]

Hopefully nobody has brought it up yet so I don't feel foolish, but why isn't there a system, homebrew or otherwise, for creating any half-breed? Have traits for each half, and combine them. If one trait conflicts with another, such as a half-halfling/half-giant being large and small, either compromise, if possible, or choose one side to be the dominant side. Is there anything out there like this?

[gurgleflep]

Hopefully nobody has brought it up yet so I don't feel foolish, but why isn't there a system, homebrew or otherwise, for creating any half-breed? Have traits for each half, and combine them. If one trait conflicts with another, such as a half-halfling/half-giant being large and small, either compromise, if possible, or choose one side to be the dominant side. Is there anything out there like this?

Actually, there is! It was created about three days ago, and so far it's working rather nicely for me and the few others who've used it. Here's a link to it, if you'd like to dabble: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=276074
It's still having some bugs worked out of it, but otherwise it's pretty interesting. I've made a drow/orc in it, somebody made a pixy/nixy, gnome/troll, kobold/goblin, aasimar/tiefling, high elf/drow, and a warforged/illithid. These are just a few examples of what it can be used for.

[gurgleflep]

Yay for Eberron and less squick!

What's squick?


Half-orcs are one of the more looked-down-on/disliked species on among humans, partly because of how rare consensual pairings between the two species are. It would only be less so for elves and orcs. Their hatred isn't just racial, it's also religious. Corellon's most hated enemy is Gruumsh. I can hardly imagine how horrible life would be as a half-elf/half-orc. That would be one of the worst childhoods all time.

The next runner-up would probably be half-orc/half-dwarf.

Orc and dwarf? Not a very pleasing mental image, but it would be strong and hearty. Aaaaand it could drink with little to no problem.


Half-orc meets half elf makes
Half human/ 1 4th elf/ 1 4th orc

In essence it could very easily happen.

What would it be called? Humorlf? :smalleek:

[hymer]

Squick (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Squick): Possibly a contraction of "squeamish" and "Ick!" A negative emotional response, more specifically a disturbed or disgusted one.

[gurgleflep]

Squick (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Squick): Possibly a contraction of "squeamish" and "Ick!" A negative emotional response, more specifically a disturbed or disgusted one.

Thank you :smallsmile:
Looks like people really do learn things every day!

[aphoticConniver]

Orc and dwarf? Not a very pleasing mental image, but it would be strong and hearty. Aaaaand it could drink with little to no problem.


Yeah, but it would have the worst childhood. Like, ever. Imagine Dorc being the actual name of your race? Ouch. Orf is almost worse, in a way.

[ArcturusV]

Heh. Not to mention the Dorc or Orf would probably be "combat practice" for all the Dwarflings it is raised with. I mean they gotta learn their bonus against goblinoids and such from somewhere....

[gurgleflep]

Yeah, but it would have the worst childhood. Like, ever. Imagine Dorc being the actual name of your race? Ouch. Orf is almost worse, in a way.


Heh. Not to mention the Dorc or Orf would probably be "combat practice" for all the Dwarflings it is raised with. I mean they gotta learn their bonus against goblinoids and such from somewhere....

Yes and no to both parts. Depending on how he's raised, he could actually be looked up to. He'd be stronger than a dwarf (possibly), but weaker than an orc (most likely). Dwarves - regardless of the fact he's part orc - would tolerate him if nothing else, as family seems to be important to their culture.
On the name matter.. how about dworc?

[Silvanoshei]

Here's my Elf/Orc layout:

Elf/Orc Racial Traits

• +2 Strength, +2 Dexterity, -2 Wisdom: Elorcs are strong and graceful, but very egomaniacal. An Elorc's physical combat prowess make them excellent fighters and assassins.

• Medium: As Medium creatures, Elorc's have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.

• Elroc base land speed is 30 feet.

• Immunity to magic sleep effects, and a +2 racial saving throw bonus against enchantment spells or effects.

• Darkvision out to 60 feet.

• Light Sensitivity: Elorcs are dazzled in bright sunlight or within the radius of a daylight spell.

• Automatic Languages: Common, Orc, and Elven.

• Favored Class: Fighter.


End Notes: If you take the best of an Elf and best of an Orc, this is the balanced version of what I think is reasonable. If you leave the +4 Strength, you're looking at a +1 Level Adjustment.

♦ I think Orc blood would cancel the -2 Con and Elf blood would cancel out the -2 Int.

♦ Elf blood would also negate the -2 Cha, but in turn would reduce the +4 Str and dilute it to -2 Str.

That leaves the +2 Str, +2 Dex, and foolhearty -2 Wis. Left out the racial bonus on listen search and spot due to dilution. And then I did not forget the Light Sensitivity because of balancing reasons, and I don't think the Elf blood would get rid of it completely due to the fact Elven blood can turn into Drow, who have a similar weakness. :durkon:

[ArcturusV]

I dunno. I mean standard dwarves, as in right out of the Player's Handbook? They're kind of defined by a few things. The relevant ones to this:

They are very clannish and prefer Dwarves to all other company. Which suggests that they might not accept "outsiders" who don't necessarily fit in with everyone else. Tolerate, yes. Accept, not really.

And secondly, they are defined as a race as having a natural Hatred in a way that most races aren't. In their case against various goblinoids and giants. So not only do they merely "tolerate" thing that are not dwarfy, they actually have a deep seeded cultural hatred of some other things.

So I can't imagine that a Dworc raised by Dwarves would naturally have a good go of it. At the very least you'd have something like Naruto going on. I mean how the manga/anime starts out where the title character is naturally an outcast, everyone shuns him. No one really knows WHY they do (At least among his own generation, they are merely copying the elders who do know why they shun him). So he probably has a truckload of issues and has been more a target and a victim for others than a happy, well adjusted member of the society.

Oddly the Dworc raised by Orcs probably wouldn't have that problem. Orcs are portrayed as far more accepting of other races. They don't care if you're Half-Orc...

"Chief half-orc too. Other half is orc as well!"

Or if you're some full blooded human, etc. Pretty much as long as you're not an elf, they're cool hanging out with you as long as you can keep up with them. They are more likely to respect the half-breed because of their strengths rather than shun them on the particulars of birth and bloodline.

Least as the races are written.

[gurgleflep]

Here's my Elf/Orc layout:

Elf/Orc Racial Traits

• +2 Strength, +2 Dexterity, -2 Wisdom: Elorcs are strong and graceful, but very egomaniacal. An Elorc's physical combat prowess make them excellent fighters and assassins.

• Medium: As Medium creatures, Elorc's have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size.

• Elroc base land speed is 30 feet.

• Immunity to magic sleep effects, and a +2 racial saving throw bonus against enchantment spells or effects.

• Darkvision out to 60 feet.

• Light Sensitivity: Elorcs are dazzled in bright sunlight or within the radius of a daylight spell.

• Automatic Languages: Common, Orc, and Elven.

• Favored Class: Fighter.


End Notes: If you take the best of an Elf and best of an Orc, this is the balanced version of what I think is reasonable. If you leave the +4 Strength, you're looking at a +1 Level Adjustment.

♦ I think Orc blood would cancel the -2 Con and Elf blood would cancel out the -2 Int.

♦ Elf blood would also negate the -2 Cha, but in turn would reduce the +4 Str and dilute it to -2 Str.

That leaves the +2 Str, +2 Dex, and foolhearty -2 Wis. Left out the racial bonus on listen search and spot due to dilution. And then I did not forget the Light Sensitivity because of balancing reasons, and I don't think the Elf blood would get rid of it completely due to the fact Elven blood can turn into Drow, who have a similar weakness. :durkon:

Thank you for this, it turned out quite nicely :smallsmile:
But what about the bonus languages?


I dunno. I mean standard dwarves, as in right out of the Player's Handbook? They're kind of defined by a few things. The relevant ones to this:

They are very clannish and prefer Dwarves to all other company. Which suggests that they might not accept "outsiders" who don't necessarily fit in with everyone else. Tolerate, yes. Accept, not really.

And secondly, they are defined as a race as having a natural Hatred in a way that most races aren't. In their case against various goblinoids and giants. So not only do they merely "tolerate" thing that are not dwarfy, they actually have a deep seeded cultural hatred of some other things.

So I can't imagine that a Dworc raised by Dwarves would naturally have a good go of it. At the very least you'd have something like Naruto going on. I mean how the manga/anime starts out where the title character is naturally an outcast, everyone shuns him. No one really knows WHY they do (At least among his own generation, they are merely copying the elders who do know why they shun him). So he probably has a truckload of issues and has been more a target and a victim for others than a happy, well adjusted member of the society.

Oddly the Dworc raised by Orcs probably wouldn't have that problem. Orcs are portrayed as far more accepting of other races. They don't care if you're Half-Orc...

"Chief half-orc too. Other half is orc as well!"

Or if you're some full blooded human, etc. Pretty much as long as you're not an elf, they're cool hanging out with you as long as you can keep up with them. They are more likely to respect the half-breed because of their strengths rather than shun them on the particulars of birth and bloodline.

Least as the races are written.

Well that seems pretty reasonable.
How do you think they'd be treated if, just for an example, they were abandoned at birth in some empty field and a elf stumbled upon them and decided to raise it? I can't imagine that would be a pleasant childhood.

[ArcturusV]

Hard to imagine a normal elf would raise it. Maybe a half-elf depending on setting, as Half-Elves either suffer from Outcast Syndrome or "everyone loves me" syndrome in equal amounts, based entirely on setting.

But I mean, best case scenario? You have someone who feels like an outcast because they don't fit into the society. They wouldn't have the elf's natural grace and aptitudes, would struggle to get along with anyone. They would be an "Adult" at a time where elven society would still consider them a little kid. They'd never fit in. Which means even if it's well intentioned, probably going to result in a maladjusted Dworc who is struggling to find their place in the world, only knowing that "home" isn't where they belong.

Natural adventurer fodder.

Worst case scenario it's no better than Dwarf Society, particularly as it shows traits of two societies/races that elves do not get along with. The dwarf that they philosophically disagree with, and the Orc that they have a blood feud hatred of.

[Gnome Alone]

After careful consideration, I have decided that the name for an elf/orc hybrid should be... Eolrfc. It's pronounced something like "Yol-urf-kh."

Human/halfling? Alfalfling, of course. Pronounced "a-FAPH-ling."

Elf/gnome? Phlegnome.

Gnome/dwarf? Gnarf.

[Preaplanes]

Well if you don't mind dialing the "freaking AWKWARD" up to 11, the BoEF (I can't even bring myself to spell it out, such an unholy abomination) probably has the answers.

[Eldan]

Hm. I'd have gone for the classics, for elf/gnomes.

Namely, Gnelf.

[Preaplanes]

Hm. I'd have gone for the classics, for elf/gnomes.

Namely, Gnelf.

Ooh, Deep Gnome/Elf

Svelfneblin.

[Eldan]

:smallbiggrin:

I like that one. Let's do a few more subraces.

Tallfellorc should be quite good. (Tallfellow/Orc)
How about the dreaded Bluman (Blue/Human).
Or the Dwow. (Drow/dwarf).

[Preaplanes]

:smallbiggrin:

I like that one. Let's do a few more subraces.

Tallfellorc should be quite good. (Tallfellow/Orc)
How about the dreaded Bluman (Blue/Human).
Or the Dwow. (Drow/dwarf).

A halfling with a penchant for coffee with cream in it with a celestial/fiendish/draconic parent.

A Half-and-Halfling.

[ArcturusV]

A tauric minotaur half celestial:

Angelfood

A tauric minotaur half devil:

Devilfood

Half Unseelie Fey, half Wight:

Night Wight

[Silvanoshei]

Nice example of an Elorc.

http://images.community.wizards.com/community.wizards.com/user/darklordofbunnies/stuffs/26d441ec22e6b112da8d45d48147bfc7.jpg?v=134550

[Preaplanes]

Nice example of an Elorc.

http://images.community.wizards.com/community.wizards.com/user/darklordofbunnies/stuffs/26d441ec22e6b112da8d45d48147bfc7.jpg?v=134550

I swear, if I see ONE sparkle...

[Silvanoshei]

I swear, if I see ONE sparkle...

You could write about it, and make a fortune? lol

[Ursus the Grim]

Nice example of an Elorc.

http://images.community.wizards.com/community.wizards.com/user/darklordofbunnies/stuffs/26d441ec22e6b112da8d45d48147bfc7.jpg?v=134550

Funny you should mention that, considering this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=238557) was linked back on page one.

[Silvanoshei]

Funny you should mention that, considering this (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=238557) was linked back on page one.

It is the 5th image of a google search orc elf hybrid, so not surprised it's used in his creation of a fusion. It is a good example, I don't mean to use it as my own, just simply saying Elorc and a Elf/Orc short name, nothing orginal from that or the picture, it was googled.

I don't really agree with "The Voldur" race creation. I'd much prefer something way more simple like I'd suggested.

[ShurikVch]

So I can't imagine that a Dworc raised by Dwarves would naturally have a good go of it. At the very least you'd have something like Naruto going on. I mean how the manga/anime starts out where the title character is naturally an outcast, everyone shuns him. No one really knows WHY they do (At least among his own generation, they are merely copying the elders who do know why they shun him). So he probably has a truckload of issues and has been more a target and a victim for others than a happy, well adjusted member of the society.
And now I want to see an anime about young dwarf/orc ninja pranking his bearded compatriotes and running away from axe-waving mobs :smallsmile: Note to self: in case I meet friendly djinni, wish for it plus "Gangsters of the Underdark" saga... :smallbiggrin:

On a bit more serious note, dwarf/orc hybrid can be raised at the community of fireblood dwarves (from Dragon Magic). They hate mostly dragons, so, if he isn't dragon, he will be mostly OK.

And about orc/elf... Actually, Benn'joon from Looking for Group webcomic can (or can not) be one http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs47/i/2009/231/6/3/Benn__joon_by_KraeHi.jpg

[gurgleflep]

And now I want to see an anime about young dwarf/orc ninja pranking his bearded compatriotes and running away from axe-waving mobs :smallsmile: Note to self: in case I meet friendly djinni, wish for it plus "Gangsters of the Underdark" saga... :smallbiggrin:

On a bit more serious note, dwarf/orc hybrid can be raised at the community of fireblood dwarves (from Dragon Magic). They hate mostly dragons, so, if he isn't dragon, he will be mostly OK.

And about orc/elf... Actually, Benn'joon from Looking for Group webcomic can (or can not) be one http://fc08.deviantart.net/fs47/i/2009/231/6/3/Benn__joon_by_KraeHi.jpg

I quite like the picture there, it has nice colors and is easy on the eyes (in more ways than one!)