Durkon's calm acceptance despite Knowledge (Religion)

[Callista]

Durkon seems to be rather okay with being a vampire, for someone who knows so much about them.

We know he's got a high Wisdom (i.e., common sense), and he's fighting Xykon. He has absolutely no reason not to take max Knowledge (Religion) ranks. By now, it doesn't matter if his INT is average, since he's mid-high level and he'll be easily able to make checks to know what a vampire is and what it does even if he hasn't got an INT bonus.

It makes sense that he could be fooled by disguises and magical protection, because Malack knows what he's doing and he's more than a match for Durkon. However, once Durkon knows that Malack is a vampire, shouldn't he be a little more worried about the prospect of becoming one himself?

Durkon would know that becoming a vampire turns you into a blood-sucking fiend without a conscience. Not necessarily one without manners, but certainly without any desire to protect others or do the Right Thing.

So Durkon would also know that returning home posthumously, as a vampire, means that he'll probably be responsible for the deaths of more than a few of his people. Why is he happy (or at least content) about this? We can all agree that Durkon is a badass who's not afraid of dying; but in this situation, it seems like he'd be more likely to be stoic than content.

One resolution for it, that I can think of, is that Durkon's knowledge about the undead tells him that his soul isn't going to be involved in whatever bloodsucking hijinks his vampire self gets up to--that he doesn't think of his body as really part of himself so much as just a vehicle to carry his soul around. In which case, I suppose it means that he believes, thanks to the prophecy, that the vampire Durkon will be destroyed and the dust remaining will be buried with his ancestors, because the vampire Malack creates will not count as Durkon's corpse again until the vampire is destroyed (a rational guess considering that Resurrection type spells don't work on undead, but do work on undead that have been re-killed, is that an undead creature doesn't count as being the body of the person it used to be). Or maybe Durkon believes that he'll return to his homeland as a disembodied spirit?

Thoughts? Why is Durkon so cool about getting killed by Malack?

[Kish]

We know he's got a high Wisdom (i.e., common sense), and he's fighting Xykon. He has absolutely no reason not to take max Knowledge (Religion) ranks.
And yet, the one time he mentioned Knowledge (Religion), it was clear that he did not have maximum ranks in it.

There has been no indication that he started maxing it between then and now.

[Tragak]

Durkon does not have Knowledge (Religion) ranks. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0052.html)

http://www.giantitp.com/FAQ.html#faq7

[KillianHawkeye]

Yeah, remember that Durkon didn't know enough about religion to recognize the NAME of his god's archrival. It's pretty obvious his 2 skill points per level have been going into something else.

[Tragak]

Ninjas!!!!!!!!!!!

[Vinyadan]

You are underestimating how unoptimized this party is. And, as already noted, we have good reasons to think that he doesn't really know much about religion. This explains why he actually asked for help by Thor, he didn't know how his god works.

[Analytica]

More importantly, when you are being killed by something under those circumstances, you might not be at your best to succeed at any skill check. I.e. circumstance penalties could well lead him to fail even if, under ideal circumstances, he would not have. It's not like someone in the real world will remember everything they know that is relevant to a situation they are in, particularly if that situation is stressful or otherwise strongly emotionally charged.

[GigaGuess]

Remember that Durkon is only aware of the prophecy that he will return home post-humously. NOT the prophecy that states he'll be resonsible for the death and destruction of those in his homelands. So yeah, I see this as him being resigned to his fate (he most certainly put up a good fight...) and at least thankful for the small mercy that this vampire is Lawful enough that he'd be willing to heed Durkon's last request. Combine that with his knowledge that he'dbe able to go home, I think that's the recipe for his calm exit.

[ZerglingOne]

Being a character of average int, and a cleric that knows he's casting spells in combat frequently, he'd much more want to be maxing Spellcraft (for epic magic and understanding what his enemies have cast) and Concentration to safely cast spells in combat.

[King of Nowhere]

plus, durkon had no way of surviving when he accepted it. he would have been vampirized whatever he did, and at this point, dieing with dignity was the best he could achieve. plus, we fear to die, but the moment death becomes certain, there's nothing to fear anymore. many people, when confroned with inescapable death, react with calm acceptance. kicking and screaming is for those who can still try to escape that fate.

[F.Harr]

Are D&D vampires known for freaking out when they wake up?

[Incom]

^I'm assuming he's referring to Durkon's death scene, not Durkula.

I suppose Durkon assumes nobody will hold Durkula's actions against his living self.

[NerdyKris]

Um, guys and gals? Durkon didn't think Malack was going to turn him into a vampire. Re-read that. Malack doesn't make the decision until the next strip, after Durkon died. Durkon assumed Malack was simply going to kill him.

Also, as noted, he doesn't have Knowledge(Religion). He didn't even know Loki was Thor's chief rival.

[Mutant Sheep]

Um, guys and gals? Durkon didn't think Malack was going to turn him into a vampire. Re-read that. Malack doesn't make the decision until the next strip, after Durkon died. Durkon assumed Malack was simply going to kill him.

Also, as noted, he doesn't have Knowledge(Religion). He didn't even know Loki was Thor's chief rival.

No, he clearly understands the basics of vampires. He even says "dreaded vampire bite". He knows a bite turns you into a vampire, and Malack wasn't exactly concealing his "compromise". And he doesn't decide to turn him into a vampire in that strip.... He decides to speed it up instead of waiting three days and a burial.:smallconfused:

He doesn't have ENOUGH ranks. "If I had more ranks", not "i have never put a single point in it". Not to mention that was strip like, 58. Was still joke heavy plot-light. Knowing vampires bite but not knowing the bite spreads the condition makes no sense.

Edit: Blood lose of course helps, but one of Durkon's worries was being eaten by a wild beast (He wasn't eaten, specifically...:smallwink:). Taking solace in that not happening instead of going "i wonder what Vampire Me will be like and will focus on the hilariously painful negative" is only reasonable.

[Callista]

Are D&D vampires known for freaking out when they wake up?No, but I would expect at least some freaking out (or at least taking an axe to something) if the vampire in question were a formerly-LG cleric with an itchy Turn-Undead trigger finger.

Durkon does know that vampires can create spawn:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0872.html
He knows that Belkar can "wake up with crazy evil vampire powers" if he dies.
He knows that they drain the blood of their victims--he immediately identifies Malack as one when he sees him draining Belkar.
He knows about their Dominate ability, sunlight vulnerability, and status as undead.
He identifies vampires as evil creatures who kill innocents.
He knows what the vampire's bite does, because he knows that Death Ward protects against it.

Vampires are very common monsters; the DC to know about them is pretty low, as low as 11 if you take a 1-HD vampire as the base creature and leveled ones as being more powerful versions of the same.

So I still conclude that Durkon would know that he is likely to return as a vampire himself and that as a vampire he would kill the innocent. Even lacking full Knowledge (Religion), he'd know that.

So the question remains... why so happy? Calm, I can see. Durkon's a stoic. But happy?

[oppyu]

Maybe Durkon also accepts the Buffy argument; once you're vamped, you're dead, and don't have to worry about whatever your corpse is doing.

[panko]

Durkon does not have Knowledge (Religion) ranks. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0052.html)



Yep, he does seem to lack a very basic piece of info at this point. However, it was said that he never put more ranks into it. However, he seems to gain knowledge of the gods eventually.

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0501.html

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0737.html

It would make sense that he would know about Loki before any of those gods.

That being said, of course, I know it's only a throwaway joke in the early days... but well... overanalyzing is fun.

[KillianHawkeye]

Vampires are very common monsters; the DC to know about them is pretty low, as low as 11 if you take a 1-HD vampire as the base creature and leveled ones as being more powerful versions of the same.

Except minimum level for a vampire is 5 (or 4 Hit Dice for a vampire spawn).

[GigaGuess]

So the question remains... why so happy? Calm, I can see. Durkon's a stoic. But happy?

He was focused on the prophecy, saying he's going to get to go home once he kicks it. He wasn't, likely, thinking about the immediate potential ramifications (ie.//Posthumous meaning Durkula's raiding the family tree for a snack or three) just that after a long, long journey, even if just in spirit, he gets to go home.

[Feddlefew]

He was focused on the prophecy, saying he's going to get to go home once he kicks it. He wasn't, likely, thinking about the immediate potential ramifications (ie.//Posthumous meaning Durkula's raiding the family tree for a snack or three) just that after a long, long journey, even if just in spirit, he gets to go home.

The blood lose was probably "helping". I think Durkon was just rambling at that point as his train of though slowly came to a halt.
8^(

[MoleMage]

He actually might not have a terrible number of ranks in it, and just got by on general vampire knowledge. By rules as written, Durkon (a dwarf with a holy symbol and a whole lot of conviction in it), would have been able to keep Malack at bay (no save) by presenting it strongly. If that isn't key knowledge in your quest to not die, I don't know what is (that said, 'tis a silly rule and I'd be completely okay with it if Rich decided that particular one doesn't count).

But as for what Durkon does have ranks in: he's demonstrated a fair amount of ranks in heal in the last couple dozen strips (identifying how long the bodies had been dead, identifying how they were preserved, and of course checking them for likely causes of death), and as has been mentioned, Concentration is a must for him (at least until he can reliably cast his spells defensively). Spellcraft he's got a few ranks in most likely (spell research) but then he did fizzle his spell a fair amount while working on it so that might not be maxed either.

[Mike Havran]

I'm in the camp that thinks Durkon's soul is already in the afterlife and Durkula is an entirely different person. He empbraced his death because all that mattered was he died with honor (fighting to the death with a powerful opponent, and making his last act a protection to his friends) and his body will return home sometime and somehow.

[rodneyAnonymous]

I'm in the camp that thinks Durkon's soul is already in the afterlife and Durkula is an entirely different person.

Why would vampires have a different mechanic for that than other intelligent undead? (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0639.html) The only evidence that disagrees is (IMO, odd) particular interpretations of things people have said, which may be interpreted differently.