AD&D ways of stopping a teleport

[Lvl45DM!]

Ok so I am a 14th level Cleric of Joramy. I have picked up an arch nemesis, a really annoying Cleric of Iuz. Problem is I fight him, I kick his ass and then he finds a way to teleport. Last night I HELD him and his pet demon grabbed him and teleported out. The time I had set my self on fire and was strangling him? He Word of Recalled. The list goes on. Next time I see him I wanna kill him! Any advice on ways to prevent a teleport?

[Jay R]

Silence spell. He can't cast spells if he can't speak - even a Word of Recall.

[Lvl45DM!]

I did that, the demons teleport is innate so no magic words needed.

[Hopeless]

Cast a protection from evil on him so his pet demon can't get into physical contact?

What kind of pet demon is it?

[Jay R]

I suspect that your arch nemesis will last as long as the game does.

[Rhynn]

Use spells that get around the problem: maze the demon (or maze the nemesis, then disintegrate or kill the demon), death spell or finger of death the nemesis, use imprisonment... obviously, you'll need the help of a high-level wizard, but I should hope you have one in your group or count one among your allies.

Of course, all this might force your DM into fudging saves, but if your DM is willing to do that, you can't win anyway.

[Toofey]

dimensional anchor, 4th level priest spell, Players option: spells and magic


also if he's a demon throw in a dimensional translocation to cut off his magic ability (I think that's in the Tome 5th level?)

[Lapak]

Well, at the very least you'll be able to use Holy Word in two more levels. That'll no-saving-throw his demon buddy back to its home plane. Combine that with Silence and you should be able to pin him down.

Now that I think about it, you could Dispel Evil right now. That gives a saving throw, but it's a relatively strong option to get rid of the demon.

[Rhynn]

Well, at the very least you'll be able to use Holy Word in two more levels.

That's not exactly "right around the corner" in AD&D 1E. :smalleek: He's going to need another 225,000-450,000 XP to make 16th.

Is this 1E or 2E, though? In 2E, he's already got 7th level spells at 14th level.

[Hopeless]

Its a shame you can't pepper the nemesis with something like multiple glyphs of warding so that if he is teleported they go off doing damage to both of them or at least him if the demon's spell resistance works but make the clincher being it reacts to the demon's presence so you're using its attempt to teleport its master away as the trigger for the multiple spell effects...

I wonder is there anything the demon can't perceive through?

if it can't find its master it can't teleport off with him can it?

Shame you don't have chain fireball and just have multiple arrows shot around the wizard and then fire the spell off so he could be caught by all of them then again energy substitution might work better...

Still think hitting the wizard with multiple spells that detonate when the demon grabs him sounds so much better... explosive runes anyone?

Best part it only works if the demon or someone with the same alignment makes contact with the target...

[Lord Torath]

I actually like the idea of Protection from Evil on the Cleric of Iuz. There's no saving throw (although you do need to touch him), and it will keep his pesky demon at bay. And it only provides AC and Saving Throw bonuses for attacks/spells from an evil source, so it doesn't help him against you (assuming no one in your party is evil). Follow up with Silence on a thrown rock, and you may just have him trapped...

Dimensional Translocation (5th Level PO:Spells & Magic) could be a good way of killing the demon permanently as well.

[Lvl45DM!]

Its a different demon everytime. Last time it was an Avatar of Iuz. Prick.
Protection from Evil 10' radius would work though...
Problem is I would have to get close enough so the silence spell would affect me. While I am his physical superior two high level clerics swatting at each other with maces would take forever.

What is this "Players option" of which you speak?

[Lord Torath]

What is this "Players option" of which you speak?
The "2.5" series of Books put out at the end of 2nd Edition. They changed the game to be much closer to what 3rd Edition would eventually become. Really should have called them all DM's option. (My option in generally to ignore they exist at all).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Editions_of_Dungeons_%26_Dragons#Advanced_Dungeons _.26_Dragons_2nd_edition_Player.27s_Options I'm a little slow. You're not really asking what it is...:smallredface:

Of course, if you're close enough for Protection from Evil, you're also close enough for Harm. You really need to hit him with Protection from Evil, and then nail him with Silence. But while you're casting Protection, he'll probably be doing something nasty.

Okay, change of plans. Protection from Evil 10' on you. Silence 15' radius on you (no risk of him making his save), then engulf yourself in flames and grab him again. Demon can't grab him, because it can't get close to you. And the cleric is within your sphere of Silence, so he can't Word of Recall out. Bonus points if you can cast Protection from Fire on yourself beforehand.

[ken-do-nim]

I did that, the demons teleport is innate so no magic words needed.

Is there a magic-user in the party that can stun him?

[Lvl45DM!]

Of course, if you're close enough for Protection from Evil, you're also close enough for Harm. You really need to hit him with Protection from Evil, and then nail him with Silence. But while you're casting Protection, he'll probably be doing something nasty.

Okay, change of plans. Protection from Evil 10' on you. Silence 15' radius on you (no risk of him making his save), then engulf yourself in flames and grab him again. Demon can't grab him, because it can't get close to you. And the cleric is within your sphere of Silence, so he can't Word of Recall out. Bonus points if you can cast Protection from Fire on yourself beforehand.

I can't cast Harm I'm Good. But this plan has merit... I'm already Immune to Fire and I'll need to stock up on some more oil. I can use a Withdraw spell and get off a bunch of buffs to help my grappling rolls, break it with Silence and charge in. On fire. Love it.


Is there a magic-user in the party that can stun him?

I got off a hold person last time. He STILL got away. I really hate that guy.

[Lord Torath]

I can't cast Harm I'm Good. Actually, I meant that while you're hitting him with Protection from Evil 10', he could be hitting you with Harm. Which is why I suggested hitting yourself with Protection from Evil and Silence, rather than him.

[Rhynn]

I can't cast Harm I'm Good.

Can you clarify? Is this a 1E thing or something? I'm not seeing anything in the 2E PHB (including the explanation on reversible priest spells under Magic - Spell Descriptions - Name) that suggests this. It says if the spell choice is at variance with your alignment, there can be penalties - but nothing suggests that harm would be at variance with Good alignment.

[Drumbum42]

Well, depending on how much time/money/preparation you can afford I have a few options:
1) Some how drop him into a pit of snake sigils(via a friendly magic user of appropriate level). He has to fail his saving throw eventually...... Then he's trapped till the end of time.

2) Have a clay golem stick a portable hole into a bag of holding, BOOM.
Or the arrow version as seen here:
http://unicorn.us.com/alex/dnd/superweapon_arrowhead.gif

3) Have 1-4 clay golems break wands of wonder. BOOM, everything dies.

4)I really don't advise this one, but capture a Demi-lich and have it eat his soul.

5) Incinerate him, via Magic-User/Artifact/Item/etc... Save or be-not.

6) Have him eat something with a minimize spell on it. Not fun to clean up, but it's not the first time a cleric has just "Exploded."


Hope one of those helps!!

ps: This is assuming 1E AD&D.

[Lvl45DM!]

Awesome Insanity.

:vaarsuvius:: Those ideas are reprehensible, depraved and most importantly highly impractical!

No Im kidding. But i dont just have wands of wonder and clay golems lying around. And even if i did it still wouldnt solve the problem of him running away when he sees 4 clay golems charging him.


Can you clarify? Is this a 1E thing or something? I'm not seeing anything in the 2E PHB (including the explanation on reversible priest spells under Magic - Spell Descriptions - Name) that suggests this. It says if the spell choice is at variance with your alignment, there can be penalties - but nothing suggests that harm would be at variance with Good alignment.

I dunno if its a houserule or what but Cause Wounds, Harm, Cause Blindness etc. are all no go zones for good people in our game. Twas always thus. Makes sense doesnt it? A spell literally called Harm being off limits for shiny good people?


Actually, I meant that while you're hitting him with Protection from Evil 10', he could be hitting you with Harm. Which is why I suggested hitting yourself with Protection from Evil and Silence, rather than him.

Protection from Evil wont stop him getting touch attacks off but a Dispel Evil gives me -7 to AC and i can cast that in the Withdraw spell.

[Lapak]

Can you clarify? Is this a 1E thing or something? I'm not seeing anything in the 2E PHB (including the explanation on reversible priest spells under Magic - Spell Descriptions - Name) that suggests this. It says if the spell choice is at variance with your alignment, there can be penalties - but nothing suggests that harm would be at variance with Good alignment.


I dunno if its a houserule or what but Cause Wounds, Harm, Cause Blindness etc. are all no go zones for good people in our game. Twas always thus. Makes sense doesnt it? A spell literally called Harm being off limits for shiny good people?
From the 1e PHB, p. 43, 'Notes Regarding Cleric Spells':

The reversal of some spells might well place the cleric in a questionable position with respect to alignment. The use of spells which promote weal must be shunned by evil clerics in many cases. Likewise, spells which are baneful may be used only at peril by clerics of good alignment. Incautious use of spells will change the cleric's alignment, if such usage continues unchecked, and it is up to the player to guard his or her alignment with care. In any event, the cleric must decide which application of a reversible spell be used prior to learning it, i.e. it is not possible to have one spell both ways. In like manner, the mere request for a spell (or its opposite) through prayer will not guarantee that the spell will be given to the cleric. As the spell level becomes higher, confidence will decrease that the deity will concur.
Long story short: 1e clerics CAN prepare and cast reversed versions of helpful spells by the book, including Slay Living and Harm - but they can't/shouldn't be doing so regularly, only in extreme circumstances. And the higher-level the spell is the less likely it is that that they'll be granted it in the first place. Heal/Harm being in the 6th out of 7 cleric spell levels in 1e, it's definitely not a 'pull this out and use it whenever' tactic.

EDIT: The flip side of this is that the enemy cleric cannot/should not be dropping Cure Critical and Heal all over the place, even on himself, as his deity is just as unlikely to be excited about providing THOSE spells by the book.

[Hopeless]

Summon Xorn or whatever that earth elemental that likes eating gems and so on and have it collapse the ground beneath said wizard and then slam said hole shut... lets see that demon grab someone whose buried beneath 10'+ of solid rock or earth...

[Jay R]

I dunno if its a houserule or what but Cause Wounds, Harm, Cause Blindness etc. are all no go zones for good people in our game. Twas always thus. Makes sense doesnt it? A spell literally called Harm being off limits for shiny good people?

It makes exactly as much sense as swords being off limits for Paladins.

The good guys are supposed to harm the bad guys.

[Lapak]

It makes exactly as much sense as swords being off limits for Paladins.

The good guys are supposed to harm the bad guys.Good Clerics are kind of a special case under the 1e system. (Indeed, it's one of the few things that separates them from Paladins thematically, as they are just variations on Holy Warrior if you ignore it.) Clerics of Good alignment are supposed to prioritize helping their friends/allies/dependents first and hurting their enemies/opponents second. It's not totally consistent with the rest of the rules surrounding them, I'll grant you, but it's brought up often enough to make it a definite theme.

In pretty much any other edition, it's significantly less true - in OD&D they ARE the only Holy Warrior type and in post-1e they open up the field to a variety of specialty priests, including head-breakers of various stripes.

[Lvl45DM!]

Summon Xorn or whatever that earth elemental that likes eating gems and so on and have it collapse the ground beneath said wizard and then slam said hole shut... lets see that demon grab someone whose buried beneath 10'+ of solid rock or earth...

First i can't summon a Xorn. Second the demon teleports without error next to him teleports out. Third Word of Recall

And in regards to the Good/Evil Cleric thing can clerics in 3.X or 4th edition cast negative energy spells?

[Lapak]

And in regards to the Good/Evil Cleric thing can clerics in 3.X or 4th edition cast negative energy spells?They can, yes. (Well, in 4th edition things change so drastically the question is kind of meaningless.) The Good Cleric/Evil Cleric divide in 3e is what you can cast spontaneously - Good Clerics can give up another spell they have memorized to cast a Cure spell of the same level without preparing it first, and Evil Clerics can do the same thing with Inflict spells. But there's nothing at all stopping a Good Cleric from preparing Inflict Light Wounds or an Evil one from preparing a Cure Serious.

EDIT: Well, that requires some clarification. There ARE spells in 3e that carry the descriptor of [Good] or [Evil], and clerics can't cast spells that carry an opposing alignment. But Cure and Inflict spells don't carry those tags.

[Rhynn]

I dunno if its a houserule or what but Cause Wounds, Harm, Cause Blindness etc. are all no go zones for good people in our game. Twas always thus. Makes sense doesnt it? A spell literally called Harm being off limits for shiny good people?

Maybe, although how flame strike differs functionally from harm is a bit vague...

It's can understand it; the whole "negative energy" thing (if you turn undead, you can't cast cause wounds, etc.). And I think there's OD&D tradtions, too - only anti-clerics (Chaotic) could use the reversed versions (including darkness) of cleric spells.

I'm all for limiting which gods grant which spells, too.

[Lvl45DM!]

Flame Strike summons a blast of flame. Flame that could be used to destroy a derelict building start a bushfire start a controlled bushfire that burns away old growth or hurt someone.
Harm can only hurt someone and it does so with negative energy. Capital E Evil.

[Lord Torath]

But this plan has merit... I'm already Immune to Fire and I'll need to stock up on some more oil. I can use a Withdraw spell and get off a bunch of buffs to help my grappling rolls, break it with Silence and charge in. On fire. Love it.
Glad I could help! Let me know how it turns out.:smallamused:
(what this forum needs is an Evil Grin smiley. As in "the Grinch got a wonderful, awful idea")

[Lvl45DM!]

Use :belkar:
Unfortunately i dont think this will come to fruition for a while. But when it does ill let ya'll know :D

EDIT: If people are still having fun helping me feel free to suggest spells to cast in a Withdraw. For those who don't know Withdraw allows me to cast 1 spell/level in one round as long as they only target me and aren't attacks. Well actually thats just how we play it.
So 14 cleric spells from 1st to 6th level! GO!
1: Protection from Evil 10'R
2: Prayer
3: Bless (do they stack?)
4: Dispel Evil (-7 to AC woot!)
5:Spell Immunity for Dispel Magic
6: Slow Poison
7:
8:
9:
10:
11:
12:
13:
14: Silence 15'R

[Drumbum42]

:vaarsuvius:: Those ideas are reprehensible, depraved and most importantly highly impractical!

No Im kidding. But i dont just have wands of wonder and clay golems lying around. And even if i did it still wouldnt solve the problem of him running away when he sees 4 clay golems charging him.

Thank you, I was quite fond of some of those ideas. I've generally played with VERY creative DMs and it has forced me to come up with plans that were totally unexpected and thus unplanned for. (Once killed myself trying to put a fireball in a bag of holding. Lesson Learned)

Back to the main point though, removing the Cleric of Iuz. Now, a fun little side note in the "Matrix For Clerics Affecting Undead" pg 75 DMG, at the bottom of the chart you'll notice Special**/, this is for "Evil creatures from lower planes such as minor demons, lessor devils, etc.." I assume his pet demon falls into this category, in which case a level 14 needs to roll a 13 or better to turn it. Then silence the cleric, and now it's a fair fight.

If that fails you can always fall back to sticking a portable hole in a bag of holding. (If you had an invisible straw golem [pg 39 UA] with a silence spell on it......)

[Lord Torath]

Use :belkar:
Unfortunately i dont think this will come to fruition for a while. But when it does ill let ya'll know :D

EDIT: If people are still having fun helping me feel free to suggest spells to cast in a Withdraw. For those who don't know Withdraw allows me to cast 1 spell/level in one round as long as they only target me and aren't attacks. Well actually thats just how we play it.
So 14 cleric spells from 1st to 6th level! GO!
1: Protection from Evil 10'R
2: Prayer
3: Bless (do they stack?)
4: Dispel Evil (-7 to AC woot!)
5:Spell Immunity for Dispel Magic
6: Slow Poison
7:
8:
9:
10:
11:
12:
13:
14: Silence 15'R
Okay, I Suggest you use these spells.... (most of which are from the Tome of Magic)

Call Upon Faith (Lvl 1: +3 to one die roll)
Draw Upon Holy Might (Lvl 2: +1/3 levels to either Str, Dex, or Con for 1 round/level – rest for 4d6 turns after spell ends (con check for 2d6 turns)
Choose Future (Lvl 3: roll twice, pick best once during next round)
Probability Control (Lvl 4: +3 +1/5 levels to one action specified at time of casting)
Chaotic Commands (Lvl 5: protection from and possible reversal of: Taunt, Forget, Suggestion, Domination, Geas, Demand, Succor, Command, Enthrall, Quest, Exaction, and similar spells)
Trueseeing (Lvl 5)

[Lvl45DM!]

(Cleric dude, I save vs Suggestion :smalltongue:) Ok the Tome of Magic has several problems first and foremost I don't have it and I can't find it. Second the DM says he would have to personally check every spell I bring in anyway.

But duh! Trueseeing!

Oh and in regards to the Turning ability. I turned his pet succubus once but turning an Avatar is just a leetle beyond my power. It only works on minor demons so usually it won't work since normally he has a Glabrezu with him

[Lord Torath]

(Cleric dude, I save vs Suggestion :smalltongue:) Ok the Tome of Magic has several problems first and foremost I don't have it and I can't find it. Second the DM says he would have to personally check every spell I bring in anyway.

But duh! Trueseeing!

Oh and in regards to the Turning ability. I turned his pet succubus once but turning an Avatar is just a leetle beyond my power. It only works on minor demons so usually it won't work since normally he has a Glabrezu with him
<stupid clerics with their stupid high wisdoms and stupidly good saving throws vs stupid mind-affecting magic!>:smallannoyed:
Okay, in that case, I Suggest to your DM that he allow the Tome of Magic. (Of course, DM's get even better saves than clerics...:smallyuk:)

[Drumbum42]

Oh and in regards to the Turning ability. I turned his pet succubus once but turning an Avatar is just a leetle beyond my power. It only works on minor demons so usually it won't work since normally he has a Glabrezu with him

Well I see nothing in the Monster Manual talking about a TypeIII (Glabrezu) Demon with Teleport, so it seems that your DM wants this "arch nemesis" thing to go on a while. But you should still be able to turn the Demon, from how I'm reading this he is still a lesser demon (but not by much).

DMG pg 76: "any creature with an AC of -5 or better, 11 or more HD and 66% or greater magic resist will be unaffected" Glabrezu has AC of -4, 10 HD and 60% Magic resist. It's not alot, but you should be able to make the argument to your DM.

Unless he beefed him up w/ extra hit die or AC, then I'd suggest having a magic user scry for him. If you manage to get a weapon or article of clothing during the fight a crystal ball will give a 25-50% chance to find him. Then YOU could surprise HIM. Or even follow him after a fight.

[Jay R]

It appears my earlier guess is correct: I suspect that your arch nemesis will last as long as the game does.

Superman will never get rid of Lex Luthor.

Batman will never get rid of the Joker.

The Fantastic Four will never get rid of Dr. Doom.

And as long as your DM is telling stories about your character, you will never get rid of your arch nemesis with the unbeatable escape.

Stop trying to kill him, and start considering each time you force him to leave as a victory over his current evil plan. That's when the current comic ends.

It doesn't matter if he or somebody else is the villain in the next issue.

[Lvl45DM!]

Well I see nothing in the Monster Manual talking about a TypeIII (Glabrezu) Demon with Teleport, so it seems that your DM wants this "arch nemesis" thing to go on a while. But you should still be able to turn the Demon, from how I'm reading this he is still a lesser demon (but not by much).

DMG pg 76: "any creature with an AC of -5 or better, 11 or more HD and 66% or greater magic resist will be unaffected" Glabrezu has AC of -4, 10 HD and 60% Magic resist. It's not alot, but you should be able to make the argument to your DM.

Unless he beefed him up w/ extra hit die or AC, then I'd suggest having a magic user scry for him. If you manage to get a weapon or article of clothing during the fight a crystal ball will give a 25-50% chance to find him. Then YOU could surprise HIM. Or even follow him after a fight.

Daaaaaaaamn thats good statistics. But yeah its only the most common by which i mean out of 5 fights its been there twice. He usually just has a demon around. Still Have the problem of if i Turn the Demon he Word of Recalls away.



It appears my earlier guess is correct: I suspect that your arch nemesis will last as long as the game does.

Superman will never get rid of Lex Luthor.

Batman will never get rid of the Joker.

The Fantastic Four will never get rid of Dr. Doom.

And as long as your DM is telling stories about your character, you will never get rid of your arch nemesis with the unbeatable escape.

Stop trying to kill him, and start considering each time you force him to leave as a victory over his current evil plan. That's when the current comic ends.

It doesn't matter if he or somebody else is the villain in the next issue.


Frodo beat Sauron Buffy kills a Big Bad per season and my game is not a comic book. It totally matters if its him cos he bugs me and I'm playing a cleric of Joramy, the goddess of wrath and fire. I've gotta try to kill him and if I force my DM to cheat I totally win.

[MeeposFire]

Daaaaaaaamn thats good statistics. But yeah its only the most common by which i mean out of 5 fights its been there twice. He usually just has a demon around. Still Have the problem of if i Turn the Demon he Word of Recalls away.





Frodo beat Sauron Buffy kills a Big Bad per season and my game is not a comic book. It totally matters if its him cos he bugs me and I'm playing a cleric of Joramy, the goddess of wrath and fire. I've gotta try to kill him and if I force my DM to cheat I totally win.

Yes Frodo defeats Sauron (well sort of anyway) but remember that was the end of that particular story. Comics are the same the big difference is that they tend to try to not end it any time soon whereas novels tend to have a predetermined ending point. In both cases the main villain usually is defeated at the end of a story arc. I have a feeling that if the DM wants this to be a recurring villain then he will always find a way to make it happen and in fact many books from that time advocating doing this such as the Dragonlance series.

Now if you want to try to force the final confrontation one way is to be proactive. Do you know anything about this enemies goals? Does this enemy have anything it absolutely needs? If so go for that if it is important enough as that will force the enemy to stay. As an example if Sauron knew where the ring was he would send everything, including himself if that was possible, to retrieve it and protect it from the heroes. If the heroes had the power to defeat such odds (they did not so this was not viable for them) then this strategy would have worked in forcing a confrontation with the enemy.

[illyrus]

Its been a long time since I've played AD&D and oD&D so my knowledge on specific spells etc is rusty. I don't remember if something as simple as pickpocketing his holy symbol would cause him to be unable to cast word of recall or if focus dependent spells was a 3.x thing.

When does this guy tend to teleport out? After he has had a bit of a beating, near death, or at the first sign of trouble?

Could you possibly split them up? Maybe run away at the first sign he shows up and then kill the faster one (I'd assume it would be the demon) then focus on the cleric with your silence in place.

Do you have any way to predict when you'll encounter him where you could setup a trap before hand?

[Jay R]

Frodo beat Sauron Buffy kills a Big Bad per season and my game is not a comic book. It totally matters if its him cos he bugs me and I'm playing a cleric of Joramy, the goddess of wrath and fire. I've gotta try to kill him and if I force my DM to cheat I totally win.

Frodo beat Sauron and that ended his adventures. Buffy kills a Big Bad at teh end of the season and then doesn't fight again for months. If the game continues, it is similar to a comic.

In any event, I'm not suggesting that this is your motivation, but the DM's. If this guy is supposed to be your continuing rival or nemesis, then you won't succeed in killing him.

I could easily be wrong. But if I'm right, then you aren't going to kill this guy. So stop thinking like a murder-hobo and start thinking like a cleric. Each day's victory is sufficient unto itself.

If that is the case, consider each time you chase him away a victory, bank the xps, and move on to the next game.

[Drumbum42]

In any event, I'm not suggesting that this is your motivation, but the DM's. If this guy is supposed to be your continuing rival or nemesis, then you won't succeed in killing him.

I could easily be wrong. But if I'm right, then you aren't going to kill this guy. So stop thinking like a murder-hobo and start thinking like a cleric. Each day's victory is sufficient unto itself.

If that is the case, consider each time you chase him away a victory, bank the xps, and move on to the next game.

I would tend to agree. Given the capabilities of the cleric (and his demons), he most likely isn't SUPPOSE to be killed. You can force the issue by finding him when his pet demon is away or he's not wearing armor, ext.. But what would you're character do? I'm not familiar with Joramy, but what would he expect your cleric to do? After all you're not a Paladin.

You can test this by total over kill. Have a magic user special craft some fireball grenades so the Cleric of Iuz will take 200 damage, or break a rod of power (8 damage per charge) or something like that. Either he'll die and you can sleep better, or he'll live and you proved that he can't die till your "Final Confrontation" when ever that is.

Or you can just play and see where the DM leads you.

[Lvl45DM!]

I am thinking like a cleric and I resent the implication that I'm not. I'm thinking like a Cleric of the Goddess of righteous wrath and anger, a goddess of fire and volcanoes.
If my game is a comic, I'm feeling like Batman wanting to outright kill the Joker. Even if I've stopped his plans he's done some damage. His god sent an avatar to protect him so he's a big cheese. Killing him is a really important thing to do.

DrumBum I don't know what kind of games you play but in 1st Edition we don't just have mages sitting around willing to make uber grenades for us. And he's a personal rival so noone is gonna lend me all their gear to kill him. AND it gets into the running away issue.

Illyrus....This is also a great plan. The thief owes me one so taking his holy symbol is my backup idea next time

[Jay R]

If my game is a comic, I'm feeling like Batman wanting to outright kill the Joker.

Not really. You're feeling like Batman being upset that he can't outright kill the Joker because the writer wants to keep telling Joker stories. That feeling makes your adventures a long series of frustrating defeats.

You'll be a lot less upset if you start thinking like Batman wanting to stop the Joker's plan and chase him away. That would make the exact same adventures a long series of triumphant victories.


Even if I've stopped his plans he's done some damage. His god sent an avatar to protect him so he's a big cheese. Killing him is a really important thing to do.

It may be important, but if I'm right about your DM, it's also impossible. Calm down and start enjoying the game.

[Lord Torath]

Illyrus....This is also a great plan. The thief owes me one so taking his holy symbol is my backup idea next time
Sadly, Word of Recall has only a verbal component, so he doesn't need his holy symbol to cast it. It will probably stop him from casting several other spells (at least until he can go get another one. They're only like 25 gp each).

As for spells to cast during your Withdrawal, how about Commune: "Does the evil cleric have any way to escape other than Word of Recall and his pet Demon?" "Does the Evil Cleric of Iuz have anything protecting him from Fire?" (You have pulled that trick on him once before.) Or maybe: "Is this evil cleric of Iuz protected by Plot Armor?:smallfurious:"Though that may be a little too metagamey... :smallwink:

Could you cast "Glyph of Warding" on your shield? Or is that too far from targeting yourself?

[MeeposFire]

Sadly, Word of Recall has only a verbal component, so he doesn't need his holy symbol to cast it. It will probably stop him from casting several other spells (at least until he can go get another one. They're only like 25 gp each).

As for spells to cast during your Withdrawal, how about Commune: "Does the evil cleric have any way to escape other than Word of Recall and his pet Demon?" "Does the Evil Cleric of Iuz have anything protecting him from Fire?" (You have pulled that trick on him once before.) Or maybe: "Is this evil cleric of Iuz protected by Plot Armor?:smallfurious:"Though that may be a little too metagamey... :smallwink:

Could you cast "Glyph of Warding" on your shield? Or is that too far from targeting yourself?

Well that would be why you want the silence spell around.

[Lvl45DM!]

Not really. You're feeling like Batman being upset that he can't outright kill the Joker because the writer wants to keep telling Joker stories. That feeling makes your adventures a long series of frustrating defeats.

You'll be a lot less upset if you start thinking like Batman wanting to stop the Joker's plan and chase him away. That would make the exact same adventures a long series of triumphant victories.



It may be important, but if I'm right about your DM, it's also impossible. Calm down and start enjoying the game.

I love my game. Getting personally involved in a character and feeling strong emotions is a GOOD thing. If I didn't enjoy it i'd be bored, or be bitching about the DM. This is my way of enjoying the game. Especially since its totally in character. None of my other characters would care so much since they don't have a righteous anger angle. This guy pisses my character off. I'd love to kill him. I thoroughly enjoy failing as well since its so intense. And giving up would be so freakin boring


And Lord Torath, good call on the Verbal component. I have tried the Glyph on the shield trick DM considers it an attack. Fair call i reckon

[Greylond]

One of my favorite aspects of AD&D spell system is the ability to Research custom spells. So, research a spell that protects an area from Teleports. Your DM has the rules for Spell Research in the DMG.

[Lord Torath]

Or a ranged version of Protection from Evil 10' Radius to force his fiend friend to keep its distance from him. But that's likely to be a 5th or 6th level spell, and gives it a very high opportunity cost. You only get so many high-level spell slots, and that might not be worth it.

Do you by chance have any low-level clerical follower who can cast Chant while you cast Prayer? Those stack nicely! There are also a bunch of co-operative spells in the Tome of Magic (if you can get your DM to approve it) you can cast if you have a fellow cleric of Joramy.

Who's in your party, and which of them owe you favors/would be willing to help out with spells/special abilities? Or are they likely to be tied up fighting minions and cohorts?

Commune is probably a good idea to cast during your Withdrawal and not before, lest you risk tipping your hand to your DM. It can also give you an idea of any magic items your thief friend needs to 'liberate' before you ignite and charge in.

6th Level Spells(2):
5th Level Spells(3): Commune, Dispel Evil, Truesight
4th Level Spells(5): Spell Immunity (Abjuration-Dispel Magic), Protection from Evil 10'
3rd Level Spells(6): Prayer
2nd Level Spells(6): Withdraw, Silence 15' Radius, Slow Poison
1st Level Spells(6): Bless, Orison, Sanctuary

@ Jay: Yes, this may be a Recurring Villain, and he may not be able to take him out, but accepting that fact is very meta-gamey, and rather out of character...

[Drumbum42]

I am thinking like a cleric and I resent the implication that I'm not. I'm thinking like a Cleric of the Goddess of righteous wrath and anger, a goddess of fire and volcanoes.
If my game is a comic, I'm feeling like Batman wanting to outright kill the Joker. Even if I've stopped his plans he's done some damage. His god sent an avatar to protect him so he's a big cheese. Killing him is a really important thing to do.

DrumBum I don't know what kind of games you play but in 1st Edition we don't just have mages sitting around willing to make uber grenades for us. And he's a personal rival so noone is gonna lend me all their gear to kill him. AND it gets into the running away issue.

Sorry, it was not my intent to insult you. I simply did not know WHO your cleric was. My high level cleric is a bit of a floater and not really big on "seeking out evil", it's just not his thing. As for the magic user issue, I assumed that you are playing in the World of Greyhawk (given that your enemy is a cleric of Iuz). And Greyhawk is a really big city, and has high-level magic users. Depending on how your DM/DMs have run the games at 14th level you should have a fair amount of gold, and can hire one of these magic users to assist in some manner.

Given that your character is driven to eliminate this evil, I'd throw everything at your disposal at him. This cleric is a slippery character (or even NPC!), so it's what your character is willing to do to kill him. And we're not telling you what to do, just giving new "out-of-the-box" ideas to help. :smallbiggrin: