Rhino's Rush

[Zsaber0]

I'm playing a mounted paladin in a campaign and he is focusing heavily on ride-by-attack. He uses a lance, and as such deals double damage as per these rules.


A lance deals double damage when used from the back of a charging mount. It has reach, so you can strike opponents 10 feet away with it, but you can’t use it against an adjacent foe.

While mounted, you can wield a lance with one hand.

The spell Rhino's Rush from the Spell Compendium is a first level paladin spell that causes your charge attack to deal double damage.


This spell allows you to propel yourself in a single deadly charge. The first charge attack you make before the end of the round deals double damage on a successful hit.

My question is whether or not I use normal multiplier rules for d&d and deal x3 damage or if the spell doubles the damage as a whole at the end of the charge and I double the x2 damage done by the lance?

[Kazyan]

It's generally accepted that they're both charge multipliers, so the two doublings make a tripling.

[StreamOfTheSky]

It would follow "D&D math" and be x3 damage. When you eventually pick up Spirited Charge, it would be a grand total of x4 damage.

If you crit on the Rhino's Rush with your lance (a x3 crit weapon), it would deal x5 damage (or x6 with spirited charge).

[Magnera]

I had a build like this once.

TWF
ITWF (from an item)
Paladin Level 8+ Pounce
Lance +Horse X2
Spirited Charge X3
Rino's Rush X4
Some second or third level paladin spell that also doubled damage as a Per round basis X5
Valorus Lance X6
Riding Boots (DM ruled it to not effect crits but normal charge damage) X7

He then charged and used pounce with his mount for a full attack. He dual wielded twin lances for each attack. This lead up to four attacks that all dealt X7 damage!

I had fun with him, smiting evil deities left and right!

[Zsaber0]

Thank you all very much. I kinda figured that was the answer, but the wording of the spell was a little lost on me.

[Carth]

If you'd like, there exists the valorous weapon property, a +1 enchantment that causes a weapon to deal double damage on a charge.

[Sugashane]

I had a build like this once.

TWF
ITWF (from an item)
Paladin Level 8+ Pounce
Lance +Horse X2
Spirited Charge X3
Rino's Rush X4
Some second or third level paladin spell that also doubled damage as a Per round basis X5
Valorus Lance X6
Riding Boots (DM ruled it to not effect crits but normal charge damage) X7

He then charged and used pounce with his mount for a full attack. He dual wielded twin lances for each attack. This lead up to four attacks that all dealt X7 damage!

I had fun with him, smiting evil deities left and right!

Did all attacks do x7 or the first only and the following from pounce were x6? As Rhino's Rush only effects the first attack, unless a magical item was made to persist the effect or I am misunderstanding the spell, in which I just wasted everyone's time. lol

[andromax]

There's probably an argument that can be made that Rhino's Rush won't work while mounted, since it states "This spell allows you to propel yourself
in a single deadly charge."

But yea, if you do stack Lance + Rhino's Rush, it's x3. Add mounted combat for x4, add Valorous Weapon for x5, etc etc.

Uber chargers have been done to death.

[Zsaber0]

But yea, if you do stack Lance + Rhino's Rush, it's x3. Add mounted combat for x4, add Valorous Weapon for x5, etc etc.



A lance with Rhino's Rush will only do x2 since you need to be mounted for the lance to deal double damage. So...

Mounted with Lance x2 > Rhino's Rush x3 > Spirited Charge x4 > Valorous x5

[andromax]

A lance with Rhino's Rush will only do x2 since you need to be mounted for the lance to deal double damage.

I meant spirited charge not mounted combat, whatever. And yea I was talking about being mounted, since that's what you asked, and we were discussing.

Personally though, and I'm sure some may agree, Rhino's Rush wouldn't work while mounted.

[tiercel]

The obvious thing to combine with Rhino's Rush would seem to be the Charging Smite ACF (PHB II), at +3 damage/level (or would be, if the conventional wisdom wasn't just "take as few paladin levels as you can and PrC ASAP").

After all, the Charging Smite is a bonus to base damage (that doesn't use bonus dice), so it *gets multiplied* rather than just adding to a multiplier.

Now you can just charge your own darn self, adding in standard stuff like THF Power Attack, Leap Attack, whatever....

[StreamOfTheSky]

Cavalier is sexy.

That is all.

[Zsaber0]

I thought so as well and I most likely will go into that class on this character, but their abilities that multiply damage doesn't actually stack with spirited charge even though it is a prereq for the class. But it does stack with other charge multipliers.

[Magnera]

I thought so as well and I most likely will go into that class on this character, but their abilities that multiply damage doesn't actually stack with spirited charge even though it is a prereq for the class. But it does stack with other charge multipliers.

A good way to look at it is, once a certain number of times per day you get an extra X2 to your charge attacks. At tenth level you get X3 instead! Now personally I think the class would be better if deadly charge stacked with spirited charge.