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Realms of Chaos
2013-03-16, 05:07 PM
THE MAGE

Alignment: Any
Hit Die: d6

Class Skills:
Concentration, Craft, Decipher Script, Intimidate, Knowledge (All skills, taken individually), Profession Spellcraft.
Skill Points at 1st Level: (2 + Int modifier) × 4
Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 2 + Int modifier


The Mage
{table=head]Level|BAB|Fort|Ref|Will|Special |
Spell Level

1st|+0|+0|+0|+2|Bonus Feat|
1

2nd|+1|+0|+0|+3|Bonus Feat|
1

3rd|+1|+1|+1|+3|Lore +1|
2

4th|+2|+1|+1|+4|Bonus Feat|
2

5th|+2|+1|+1|+4|Lore +2|
3

6th|+3|+2|+2|+5|Bonus Feat|
3

7th|+3|+2|+2|+5|Lore +3|
4

8th|+4|+2|+2|+6|Bonus Feat|
4

9th|+4|+3|+3|+6|Lore +4|
5

10th|+5|+3|+3|+7|Bonus Feat|
5

11th|+5|+3|+3|+7|Lore +5|
6

12th|+6/+1|+4|+4|+8|Bonus Feat|
6

13th|+6/+1|+4|+4|+8|Lore +6|
7

14th|+7/+2|+4|+4|+9|Bonus Feat|
7

15th|+7/+2|+5|+5|+9|Lore +7|
8

16th|+8/+3|+5|+5|+10|Bonus Feat|
8

17th|+8/+3|+5|+5|+10|Lore +8|
9

18th|+9/+4|+6|+6|+11|Bonus Feat|
9

19th|+9/+4|+6|+6|+11|Lore +9|
10

20th|+10/+5|+6|+6|+12|Bonus Feat|
10

[/table]

Class Features:

Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: A mage gains proficiencies with simple weapons but with no forms of armor or with shields.

Spell Level: While incapable of casting actual spells, you possess a certain amount of magical power you can use to accomplish other tricks. You are treated as possessing an arcane spell prepared of the listed spell level at all times, though this spell can never truly be cast. You never risk losing this spell when returning from the dead, negative levels don't decrease its level or rob you of this spell, and the spell may not be stolen or expended by any means (even voluntarily).

and you may not be denied this spell through any means. This spell possesses all schools, subschools, and descriptors and from all domains and you utilize your Intelligence bonus to determine its save DC.

You possess a caster level equal to your level in mage. Finally, reserve feats you possess function regardless of the spell level of your prepared spell (acidic splatter will still function and deal 1d6 damage at 1st level even though you lack a 2nd level or higher spell, for example).

Bonus Feats: At 1st level, you gain Acidic Splatter, Clap of Thunder, Fiery Burst, Invisible Needle, Storm Bolt, or Winter’s Blast (complete mage) as a bonus feat, ignoring all normal prerequisites. With one hour of study, you may switch which of these feats you have access to.

At 2nd level, you may select either Sunlight Eyes, Shadow Veil, Clutch of Earth, or Hurricane breath as a bonus feat, ignoring its normal prerequisites. With one hour of study, you may switch which of these feats you have access to.

At each even level thereafter, you gain a bonus Reserve feat of your choice so long as you meet all prerequisites for that feat. These feats may not be exchanged.

Lore: As a Mage, you pick up a decent amount of lore. At 3rd level, you gain a +1 bonus to all Knowledge checks. This bonus increases by +1 at each odd level thereafter, up to a maximum of +9 at 19th level.

Before you guys say anything, this isn't really a serious attempt at fixing wizards or anything like that. It was more of a mental exercise to see something I haven't seen before. When most people think of magic as superior to everything else, they either take out the worst spells or try to pump up the noncasters. This was my attempt to do something else, to quite literally lower the wizard to the level of the fighter, to the point where they are practically interchangeable. If you want lower magic in your game or want to ensure balance between casters and non-casters, here you go. This thing is very simple and the odd thing is that it probably mostly works. Good luck convincing others to actually play it, though. :smalltongue:

Fortuna
2013-03-16, 05:39 PM
So... you cobbled together a warlock out of reserve feats? :smalltongue:

Gnorman
2013-03-16, 05:42 PM
An interesting take. I'm going to see if I can break it.

Realms of Chaos
2013-03-16, 05:43 PM
Nope. It's weaker than the Warlock. :smalltongue:

The aim of this class was literally to make a spellcaster that plays nicely with an unoptimized PHB Fighter. It still gets some nice tricks (flying, large elementals, water breathing, healing, temp hp, teleportation) but they are so reigned in and manageable that everything looks pretty good (especially as the mage can't muster more damage than a 10d6 blast).

Eldan
2013-03-16, 05:45 PM
Eeeeh. It's rather boring, isn't it? I mean, it doesn't get anything at all ever other level. You might at least give it cantrips or something. Detect and Read magic. Something to fill all those dead levels.

Gnorman
2013-03-16, 05:50 PM
Eeeeh. It's rather boring, isn't it? I mean, it doesn't get anything at all ever other level. You might at least give it cantrips or something. Detect and Read magic. Something to fill all those dead levels.

If it's supposed to be the magical equivalent of the fighter, then a mess of dead levels is appropriate.

Eldan
2013-03-16, 05:51 PM
Yeah I see that. Not a thing you should aim for though, in my opinion.

Gnorman
2013-03-16, 05:55 PM
Yeah I see that. Not a thing you should aim for though, in my opinion.

Not as a practical class, no, but as a thought experiment, it's interesting to see.

Realms of Chaos
2013-03-16, 06:00 PM
Actually, there aren't any real dead levels. At each "dead level", the spell level goes up, making all of your pre-existing reserve feats more powerful as that's what they're powered by. It's just an alternation between new abilities and more powerful abilities.

And yeah, I never said anything about this being a desirable place to be. It was mostly a thought experiment to make a "balanced caster". It may work for some people looking for weaker balance core or who want a low magic game but that's more of a bonus than anything else.

As no reserve feats require each other as prerequisites or actually serve as the prerequisites for anything at all (I'm pretty sure), I don't think this class can be broken. The closest I am getting would be this thing gestalted with a real spellcaster for all of the CL boosts but there are far better options.

Amechra
2013-03-16, 06:19 PM
A question:

Does your effective spell level allow you to get into caster PrCs?

Because if so, there are a few shenanigans that can be performed...

Realms of Chaos
2013-03-16, 06:45 PM
Oooh! Where?

Amechra
2013-03-16, 07:29 PM
Well, there are a few PrCs that require spellcasting, but don't advance it.

So this would let you get in to them without having the spellcasting!

I do also remember that there were a pair of Reserve-feat PrCs somewhere on these boards, that would increase the power level of this marginally...

Realms of Chaos
2013-03-16, 08:23 PM
I'm not sure if I would consider that to be "shenanigans". It saves you from the pain of lost CLs, sure, but that's only because you lack CL to begin with so it's not a particularly good thing. I wasn't trying to say "worst class ever. No PrCs for you" but to make a class around the same power level as the fighter... which has boatloads of PrCs.

Grod_The_Giant
2013-03-16, 09:53 PM
I actually kind of really like this. I've been looking through the list of reserve feats, and they actually cover a lot of terrain. This class actually starts looking quite nice in a low-power game.

Though it departs from the "as the fighter" format, I think that if you bumped the HD up to maybe 1d6 and filled in the dead levels with free Knowledge Focus type effects (like the Truenamer gets-- +3 to any Knowledge skill, stacks with itself) it starts looking pretty nice. Bolt on the Archivist's Dark Knowledge instead/in addition to the aforementioned Knowledge Focus, and this starts looking like a really nice low-power, cast-all-day mage class, like the Warlock.

Let's put it like this: I can totally see putting this in a lower-tier/low-magic game. He's the wizard, warlock is the sorcerer, and the other non-magic T4 classes are, well, the other class options.

So... well done on excellent fast balanced class building?

Realms of Chaos
2013-03-16, 11:34 PM
Well, I was hesitant to throw up huge bonuses (and dark knowledge seemed odd as it would be the most limited aspect of the class with its uses per day) but to make the "dead levels" feel less dead, I through in a lesser lore ability. Still pretty awesome with knowledge devotion but not too capable of giving big bonuses in a hurry (it totals out to a little less than PF Bardic knowledge).

Edit: Also upped the HD to a d6 (d4 is a bit overkill for just about anything)

nonsi
2013-03-17, 01:25 AM
If we're only talking about reserve feats, then what is spell level 10 (or even 9 for that matter) ?

Amechra
2013-03-17, 01:55 AM
Most Reserve Feats scale based off of the highest spell level you have prepped of the right type, so...

Realms of Chaos
2013-03-17, 09:47 AM
What Amechra said. Having spell level 10 makes your attack feats deal 10 dice of damage and such as all of your reserve feats are keyed to spell level.

nonsi
2013-03-17, 09:52 AM
Right. I forgot that one.

Just to Browse
2013-03-17, 02:28 PM
You should state whether it's divine or arcane "casting", 'cause right now it's neither.

It would be fun to use this for PrCs.

Realms of Chaos
2013-03-17, 02:34 PM
It has now been defined as an arcane caster.

Just to Browse
2013-03-17, 03:20 PM
Other things:
Precocious Apprentice and Extra Spell seem to work with this, as a way to give the mage real spells for PrC entries and maybe even a little real casting. Not sure if that's bad, since charop is fun, but it's not quite covered by the rules.
It wants magic missile... is there a magic missile reserve feat?
You may never be denied your spellcasting by any means, but can you lose spell level access (say, though negative levels?). Right now it seems that you could be a level 8 mage tossing around 4d6 damage fireballs even if you have 5-6 negative levels.
The last sentence of the "Spell Level" class feature is awkward. Are you saying that mages can't be denied access to their feats regardless of level loss or that you can prepare multiple reserve feats even if they shouldn't be compatible? I'm not sure.
This class is pretty crappy at low levels
EDIT: My immediate desire is to make a divine healbot version of this. Do you have any ideas floating around on the same topic?
EDIT: ONE MORE THING! A lot of the reserve feats have a clause in the benefit along the lines of "as long as you have an [X] spell of [Y] level, you can do [Z]. This means that even if you ignore feat prerequisites, level 1-2 mages still can't use feats like acidic splatter.
EDIT: (This is the last time I swear) There is a magic missile feat, it's called Invisible Needle, and it's total crap because it has a range of 5' per spell level, requires a ranged (not touch) attack, and only deals 1d4/spell level. If you have something at the bottom that buffs it or replaces it, you could get the iconic missile-ing mage.

Amechra
2013-03-17, 03:43 PM
Another thing; they should be able to sacrifice their "prepared" spell for a round or two to use feats that require that you sacrifice spell-slots.

Because that would nice.

Realms of Chaos
2013-03-17, 04:06 PM
Other things:
You may never be denied your spellcasting by any means, but can you lose spell level access (say, though negative levels?). Right now it seems that you could be a level 8 mage tossing around 4d6 damage fireballs even if you have 5-6 negative levels.

Nope. A spellthief may not steal your spell, negative levels neither reduce your spell level nor take your spell, coming back from the dead never takes your spell, you may not expend your spell, etc. The spell stays with you. Forever. Period. Updated the class feature to make this more clear.


The last sentence of the "Spell Level" class feature is awkward. Are you saying that mages can't be denied access to their feats regardless of level loss or that you can prepare multiple reserve feats even if they shouldn't be compatible? I'm not sure.
EDIT: ONE MORE THING! A lot of the reserve feats have a clause in the benefit along the lines of "as long as you have an [X] spell of [Y] level, you can do [Z]. This means that even if you ignore feat prerequisites, level 1-2 mages still can't use feats like acidic splatter.

The purpose of the last sentence is to specifically let feats function even if you lack a spell level high enough (so YES to acid splatter at 1st level, for example). Again, an example has been given in the class above to make it more clear.


This class is pretty crappy at low levels

Well, it's the magical fighter class. It has a bit more survivability now with a d6 HD but yeah, it doesn't really do much at 1st level.


EDIT: My immediate desire is to make a divine healbot version of this. Do you have any ideas floating around on the same topic?

There are two reserve feats in Complete Champion specifically for this purpose (one to heal you up to half hp and the other to temporarily patch ability damage/drain). I originally thought about making them options at 2nd level before I realized that they would be the best options by a huge margin and that everyone would be mad not to use them all of the time.


EDIT: (This is the last time I swear) There is a magic missile feat, it's called Invisible Needle, and it's total crap because it has a range of 5' per spell level, requires a ranged (not touch) attack, and only deals 1d4/spell level. If you have something at the bottom that buffs it or replaces it, you could get the iconic missile-ing mage.[/list]

Invisible needle is now available at 1st level (was unaware of how horrible it really was until now).

Amechra: I don't see any sane way to utilize that idea as expending the spell would turn off all of your feats and letting you expend it at will would lead to abuse, which would be the exact opposite purpose of why this class was created.

Amechra
2013-03-17, 04:51 PM
What about letting them power one of those feats X times per encounter or something?

I don't see how Arcane Strike is very broken.

Also, may I direct you to this (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=67.0)? I like 'em; your millage may vary.

Just to Browse
2013-03-17, 05:27 PM
Ah, those clear up a lot of things, thanks. What are you thoughts on Precocious Apprentice / Extra Spell?

I was writing the "this class is pretty crappy" thing when I was looking at invisible needle. Going back over the other reserve feats, this class is actually not bad at low levels because they have fixed ranges (15' cone, 20' line, 30' placement for a burst). It seems like it could end up weaker than an optimized fighter simply due to lacking options. I think a few brewed feats interacting with the [reserve] series would work.

Also, buff to needle?

Generic questions:
How does this interact with spell focus or ability focus?
Any hypotheticals on how well this class follows an optimized fighter build? At high levels fighters start using tactical feats, and I think this class might fall behind.
Does anybody know some compilations of homebrew reserve feats? Preferably weak-ish ones like in CMage.

Realms of Chaos
2013-03-17, 06:08 PM
Amechra: I have a feeling that there are sources out there requiring spent feat slots far more dangerous than arcane strike, even if I can't name any at the moment. Seems like the type of thing that has to exist.

Just To Browse: I'm probably not going to personally fix invisible needle but if you really want more options for reserve feats (and don't care too much about balance)...
here (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Category:Reserve_Feat) are some (likely hilariously broken) reserve feats (including a far better ranged force attack feat).
here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=149358) are some homebrew feats that are a bit better on the whole
here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192187) are 4 or 5 more (in the second post).
here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147086) and here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=149355) are a couple of reserve feat based PrCs.

As far as hypothetical builds, I'm not sure. I think that fighter wins for raw damage but this class definitely has the ability to get a bit of versatility over a raw fighter.

Octopusapult
2013-03-17, 10:33 PM
An interesting take. I'm going to see if I can break it.


If it's supposed to be the magical equivalent of the fighter, then a mess of dead levels is appropriate.


I like your style...

Prime32
2013-03-18, 08:36 PM
I have had thoughts along similar lines. (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=67)

Amechra
2013-03-18, 08:58 PM
I already linked him to it, Prime. Though it is nice to see you around here.

nonsi
2013-03-19, 07:14 AM
What about rituals ?
We need some actual spellcasting if we're gonna make this viable.

Realms of Chaos
2013-03-19, 08:02 AM
Prime32: I guess I should take it as no big surprise that similar things have been done before. You're take on it is pretty fascinating.

Nonsi: Adding rituals is kind of going against the main point. I was trying to make a low-tier mage.

nonsi
2013-03-19, 08:28 AM
Nonsi: Adding rituals is kind of going against the main point. I was trying to make a low-tier mage.


1. I'm not talking about 9th SL scale of power.
2. Rituals suppose to take a long time, not actions/rounds/minutes (a-la 4e).
3. You're not gonna cover plane travel, summoning, petrifaction, significant recovery, large scale effects... exclusively via reserve feats.

You want to tone down spellcasters, not cripple the game itself.

And it's quite ok in my view if spellcasters were on paper T2, as long as they don't get to capitalize on being T2 in the middle of an unprepared to conflict.

Realms of Chaos
2013-03-19, 09:12 AM
I'm not trying to talk about 9th spell level effects, either. If it doesn't fit into reserve feats, I am saying that this guy gets no special access to it. Again, this was never intended for normal games, only for things intentionally trying to go low tier or low magic. If that means it sees little/no use, I'm actually okay with that. I created a truly balanced mage class that plays nicely alongside a fighter and can't be broken. I am happy enough with this accomplishment.

I know that tier 2 is probably okay in the circumstances you have described but... I didn't want tier 2. At all. This wasn't made to evolve into a tier 2 mage. This is a mage that remains forever low-tiered and incapable of "big magic".


Even if it may seem weird or self-defeating, that's the entire point behind this class..

nonsi
2013-03-19, 09:54 AM
I'm not trying to talk about 9th spell level effects, either. If it doesn't fit into reserve feats, I am saying that this guy gets no special access to it. Again, this was never intended for normal games, only for things intentionally trying to go low tier or low magic. If that means it sees little/no use, I'm actually okay with that. I created a truly balanced mage class that plays nicely alongside a fighter and can't be broken. I am happy enough with this accomplishment.

I know that tier 2 is probably okay in the circumstances you have described but... I didn't want tier 2. At all. This wasn't made to evolve into a tier 2 mage. This is a mage that remains forever low-tiered and incapable of "big magic".


Even if it may seem weird or self-defeating, that's the entire point behind this class..

Yes, I get that, but maybe we could take this mental exercise and make something useful out of it on a larger scale.
Maybe we can finally capture the spirit of classic literature spellcasters and pour some substance into it.

Realms of Chaos
2013-03-19, 09:58 AM
Okay, I'd be willing to work down this line of thought with you.

As a perfunctory matter, is the plan to grant pre-existing spells with greatly prolonged casting time from a specialized spell list (to exclude obviously broken effects) or to make entirely new rituals?

If we used pre-existing spells, we could simply set all of their casting times to 1 hour (unless normally longer) and simply have the caster learn one at each level up to the maximum of his or her spell level (max 9th), all of which are effectively usable at will. Or something like that.

nonsi
2013-03-19, 10:34 AM
Okay, I'd be willing to work down this line of thought with you.

As a perfunctory matter, is the plan to grant pre-existing spells with greatly prolonged casting time from a specialized spell list (to exclude obviously broken effects) or to make entirely new rituals?

Possibly both - including tweaking where needed.




If we used pre-existing spells, we could simply set all of their casting times to 1 hour (unless normally longer) and simply have the caster learn one at each level up to the maximum of his or her spell level (max 9th), all of which are effectively usable at will. Or something like that.

One per level is definitely too little.
The availability shouldn't be capped, but obtaining a ritual supposes to take time and effort, and one cannot keep rituals in his head (you need to read them out from a book/long scroll(s)/...).

Realms of Chaos
2013-03-19, 11:32 AM
The availability shouldn't be capped, but obtaining a ritual supposes to take time and effort, and one cannot keep rituals in his head (you need to read them out from a book/long scroll(s)/...).

What do you mean by the bolded text? :smallconfused:

Are you saying that the mage shouldn't naturally learn any rituals?
Are you saying that rituals should be rewards of quests in and of themselves?
Are you saying that rituals should not be for sale on the market?
Are you saying that rituals should take time to effectively "learn" after acquiring them?
Just to be entirely clear, would rituals be something for everyone like in 4e or would it be a just mage thing?


Some of the above carry unfortunate implications so I want to be entirely clear on what you're suggesting.

nonsi
2013-03-19, 02:43 PM
Are you saying that the mage shouldn't naturally learn any rituals?

That's right.
Research: Yes.
Inertially: No.




Are you saying that rituals should be rewards of quests in and of themselves?

Could, but not just.




Are you saying that rituals should not be for sale on the market?

No, absolutely not.
Maybe not on the open market, but trading rituals seems quite intuitive to me.
It's just not something that should be available frequently or in large quantities.
Obtaining a ritual should be significant moment. You don't just "google" a ritual.




Are you saying that rituals should take time to effectively "learn" after acquiring them?

Could. Not a bad idea at all.
One doesn't want to botch his a ritual. This might carry consequences.
Rituals, like epic spells, should be difficult to carry out and dangerous, but an experienced and cautious spellcaster should be able to carry them out with reasonable chances of success and minimum risk.




Just to be entirely clear, would rituals be something for everyone like in 4e or would it be a just mage thing?

In the hands of practiced spellcasters of the appropriate type (arcane/divine) and level, they should be relatively safe.
In the hands of others, they should be quite volatile.

Amechra
2013-03-19, 04:12 PM
You know what?

If rituals are a thing that is desired, take a glance at the Incantation rules from Unearthed Arcana (http://dndsrd.net/unearthedIncantations.html)

I actually have a feat that might help...

Sympathetic Incantations [Reserve]
The magical energies that fill you allow you to duplicate dangerous rituals with greater surety and panache.
Prerequisites: Must be able to cast 4th level spells.
Benefits: As long as you have a spell slot of at least 4th level prepared, you may take 10 on all skill checks related to rituals that share a spell school, subschool, or descriptor, regardless of whether or not you would normally be able to.
--------------------

It could do with some neatening up, but this would give an 8th level Mage the ability to take 10 on the skill checks necessary to cast Fires of Dis. I'm debating whether it should also allow them to cheapen the XP cost to cast the Incantations themselves, but that one's a bit iffy.

Also, more Incantations (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?370422-Post-Your-Incantations!).

Realms of Chaos
2013-03-19, 05:37 PM
Nonsi: I... I think that I'm probably missing something here. From my perspective, it seems as though your desire to make rituals super special is kind of conflicting with their necessary nature. Let me explain what I mean.


From what I can tell, you recommend rituals because they are needed in a campaign with mages in order to claim some real sense of arcane might.
Again, from what I can tell, you have stated that gaining 20 rituals, far from being overpowered, is actually too few and that a mage should be able to theoretically learn any number of them.
Third, you seem to be saying that players should not get any automatically (even if of a magical bent) and that they should be impossible to purchase.


So, to recap, every mage in every campaign should have at least 20 by the end and every single scroll, tome, and researched revelation should be a memorable and exciting gain to express how... mythical... magic really is.

If I'm understanding everything correctly so far, this system is going to be a huge problem for a whole lot of people:

If we focus on tomes and scrolls and other physical forms of ritual, we couldn't let people craft them or else they'd logically be sold so we have players by necessity relying on the DM to effectively drop a ton of artifacts into their laps or else have to derail the campaign to chase them out.
If we focus on rituals as more of a learning process (researching in libraries and having other mages tutor you instead of lending you tomes), we instead have the problem that the mage suddenly requires a whole lot of downtime and that gets in the way of a lot of campaigns as well.


So... yeah. I don't see an easy way to keep rituals both rare in the world and common for players that doesn't copious servings of DM fiat. Of course, all of this is assuming that I understand everything so far.

nonsi
2013-03-19, 06:44 PM
From what I can tell, you recommend rituals because they are needed in a campaign with mages in order to claim some real sense of arcane might.

Yes.



Again, from what I can tell, you have stated that gaining 20 rituals, far from being overpowered, is actually too few and that a mage should be able to theoretically learn any number of them.

Yes.



Third, you seem to be saying that players should not get any automatically (even if of a magical bent) and that they should be impossible to purchase.

Errm... where did I say that.
How does "uncommon to come by" (in so many words) translate to "impossible to purchase".




So, to recap, every mage in every campaign should have at least 20 by the end and every single scroll, tome, and researched revelation should be a memorable and exciting gain to express how... mythical... magic really is.

Maybe "memorable" is too strong a word, but it shouldn't be trivial like getting into a magic shop and taking out your wallet.




If we focus on tomes and scrolls and other physical forms of ritual, we couldn't let people craft them or else they'd logically be sold so we have players by necessity relying on the DM to effectively drop a ton of artifacts into their laps or else have to derail the campaign to chase them out.

Spells are a source of power. People don't just sell them for a buck on a regular basis (not in an "ecological" gameworld anyway).




If we focus on rituals as more of a learning process (researching in libraries and having other mages tutor you instead of lending you tomes), we instead have the problem that the mage suddenly requires a whole lot of downtime and that gets in the way of a lot of campaigns as well.

Zero downtime is also bad.
A sensible DM should maintain a sane amount of balance.




So... yeah. I don't see an easy way to keep rituals both rare in the world and common for players that doesn't copious servings of DM fiat. Of course, all of this is assuming that I understand everything so far.

A DM does have a role to fill, you know.

Amechra
2013-03-19, 06:51 PM
No commentary on my post?

There is a system of incantations and rituals that already exists, you know...

nonsi
2013-03-19, 11:33 PM
No commentary on my post?

There is a system of incantations and rituals that already exists, you know...

Most of us had probably bumped into it at some point or another.
The problem with the UA incantations is that their implementation seems totally arbitrary, and they're way too risky for practical usage (no significant risk-factor reductions other than insanely high skill checks).

Plato Play-Doh
2013-03-20, 07:53 AM
I'm slightly confused. Do you only ever have one spell available, or do you have one spell of every available level? I'd go with the latter, but it's a bit unclear here. Other than that, I like it, and would be more than willing to play it in a low power game.

Realms of Chaos
2013-03-20, 08:08 AM
You have one "spell". that spell is of the level listed on the table. That spell possesses all schools, descriptors, and subschools and is treated as belonging to every domain. Furthermore, that spell isn't really any actual spell, acting only as a power source for your reserve feats.

Plato Play-Doh
2013-03-20, 10:19 AM
Okay... I wasn't familiar with reserve feats (I only have access to core and homebrew at the moment), and thus assumed that they amplified spells. I think I get it now.

Just to Browse
2013-03-20, 12:32 PM
I ran two of these in league with a demon with the [cold] subtype in a game. Totally brainless to play, which makes it a great NPC class. They spammed winter's blast and touch of healing to keep the demon up while dealing a little damage.

After a couple of rounds of raging at me, the players finally gave up attacking the demon and killed the mages first. It was good.

Realms of Chaos
2013-03-20, 01:29 PM
Well, it's good to know that it at least works as an NPC. Thanks for providing the playtest data. :smallsmile: