Evasion houserule

[Ashtagon]

RAW: Evasion changes "save for half damage" to "save for no damage". Improved evasion changes "save for half damage" to "save for no damage, half damage even if you fail".

Houserule: Evasion allows the character to roll the saving throw twice. Each successful saving throw halves the damage. If both saving throws succeed, the character takes 1/4 normal damage. Improved evasion allows the character to roll the saving throw three times. Each successful saving throw halves the damage. If all three saving throw rolls succeed, the character takes 1/8 normal damage.

Ability that allow the player to re-roll these saving throws must apply to all the dice or none of them with each use of the re-roll ability.

Perceived disadvantages: The game might degenerate into a dice-rolling festival for characters with evasion. Hopefully not too often, since evasion isn't something that gets used constantly.

Perceived advantages: It removes a "blanket immunity" ability (the inverse of "I win" buttons are "you lose" buttons). brings the character back into the "hit point game".

Opinions?

[nonsi]

With high Ref saves, you'd probably make 2 out of 3 most of the time, which is decent, but note that 1/8 damage is practically a wasted attack, unless 1/2 damage is potentially lethal.

As far as dice festival goes, you could make all 3 saves simultaneously, disregarding the order. This will ease the time consumption.

The frequency of attacks that make Evasion relevant is really in the hands of the DM.

[Ashtagon]

With high Ref saves, you'd probably make 2 out of 3 most of the time, which is decent, but note that 1/8 damage is practically a wasted attack, unless 1/2 damage is potentially lethal.

As far as dice festival goes, you could make all 3 saves simultaneously, disregarding the order. This will ease the time consumption.

The frequency of attacks that make Evasion relevant is really in the hands of the DM.

Well yes, 1/8 damage is practically a wasted attack. But zero damage actually is a wasted attack. It keeps the evasion character in the hit point attrition game by making sure they never actually suffer zero damage from this ability.

The original intention was that sequence of these saving throw d20s would be irrelevant, so rolling them simultaneously would be the standard approach.

[Jormengand]

Well yes, 1/8 damage is practically a wasted attack. But zero damage actually is a wasted attack.

The thing is, anything which allows a save to negate (hold person, almost all kill effects... in fact, almost anything which doesn't do direct damage) or requires an attack roll (scorching ray, touch of anything, hitting something in the face with a greatsword) has a chance to be an entirely wasted attack anyway. I'm not sure that chucking reflex half spells into the mix will really cause a noticable difference.

[Kish]

This is a rather heavy nerf to evasion with no upside. It's not generally my perception that most people consider rogues overpowered. If you do, fair enough; if you don't, you might want to modify the rule to add something as well as taking away.