Weird.

[jebbewocky]

I've always liked the Assassin class, but a few years ago I realized something weird. It grants spellcasting, and with Practiced Spellcasting, you can have 11 caster levels with 7 levels of Assassin. Why 11? Because that's the pre-req for Lich. Lich grants +8 to Hide, Move Silently,Listen, and Spot--all of which are standard rogue/assassin skills. Plus, they get a touch attack which deals negative energy damage. Because there's an attack roll involved, you can use that to sneak & death attack with it.

Oh, and being even dumber--being a Lich, you're immune to poison!
So, naturally, you dip your hand in it, sneak up on your target, touch them, and they have to make FOUR Fort saves-1 to halve the damage of your touch attack(meh!), 1 vs paralysis, 1 vs death attack, 1 vs poison.

Anyway, tonight I noticed something else..which I never would have thought of because I always had Assassin figured as a rogue PrC.
But..all the skill reqs are easily met by a bard.
At level 6, bards get suggestion.

So, you have ranks in perform (juggling), and fascinate a group of people. Then you propose to the noblemen (your target), that you'd like to perform at his next ball, so why don't you take a walk? You walk them down a secluded alley, and make a death attack.

Also..bard grants spells. You could totally be a Lich with 11 Bard levels, but..why would you?

I'm sure someone else has had these ideas..but it's 2 AM.

[Flickerdart]

A lich's paralyzing touch deals no damage, and thus is ineligible for Death Attack.

[Saidoro]

A lich's paralyzing touch deals no damage, and thus is ineligible for Death Attack.
Well that's why you take improved unarmed strike.:smalltongue:

Yeah, not sure where you're getting the damaging touch attack from, there's nothing like that in the lich's entry. Also, any poison that has any chance of killing someone on its own is far too expensive to actually use...

[Greenish]

So, you have ranks in perform (juggling), and fascinate a group of people. Then you propose to the noblemen (your target), that you'd like to perform at his next ball, so why don't you take a walk? You walk them down a secluded alley, and make a death attack.Rogue has Perform as a class skill. You don't need to be a bard to weaponize RP. :smalltongue:

[ArcturusV]

Maybe he's thinking of Wights who do have a negative energy touch attack, and are intelligent undead as well?

[Pickford]

Practiced Caster only works up to your HD. (Of course since Assassin is a PrC you'd have to be at least level 8 total).

[Zaq]

I'm pretty sure we've seen Xykon using a negative energy touch, so that may be where he's remembering it from. I forget if it was in the main strip or in SoD, but I'm pretty sure we've seen it. (I've misremembered creatures' abilities based on OotS myself, to my embarrassment . . . no, no matter what Qarr does, imps do not in fact have Teleport as an SLA!)

[TuggyNE]

I'm pretty sure we've seen Xykon using a negative energy touch, so that may be where he's remembering it from. I forget if it was in the main strip or in SoD, but I'm pretty sure we've seen it.

All I remember off-hand is paralyzing touch, used at least once (on O-Chul, trying to destroy the gem).

[Eurus]

A lich without natural weapons has a touch attack that uses negative energy to deal 1d8+5 points of damage to living creatures; a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 lich’s HD + lich’s Cha modifier) halves the damage. A lich with natural weapons can use its touch attack or its natural weaponry, as it prefers. If it chooses the latter, it deals 1d8+5 points of extra damage on one natural weapon attack.

So, kinda. It sucks, but it's there.

[jebbewocky]

That does suck.
But, you're a rogue/Assassin--SA is the base of your damage.
I forgot about Practiced Spellcaster only working on your HD, but that's irrelevant since you'd have at least five rogue levels anyway.

And, rogues can only talk people into following them. Bards can fascinate and suggest them, meaning they have to take a will save. And I DO need to weaponize RP. :P

Only thing is..those use your bard level, so unless there's a way of increasing the DC otherwise..Assassin-bard isn't really viable.

I also noticed: Practiced Spell-caster requires Spellcraft, which isn't a rogue or assassin class skill, but is for bard!

[Saidoro]

So, kinda. It sucks, but it's there.
And now my question becomes: why on earth do they have this in the damage section instead of the special attacks section? For that matter, why do they even have a damage section?

[Eurus]

And now my question becomes: why on earth do they have this in the damage section instead of the special attacks section? For that matter, why do they even have a damage section?

Gasp! WotC is being inconsistent and lazy with formatting again! Stop the presses! :smallbiggrin:

[TuggyNE]

Gasp! WotC is being inconsistent and lazy with formatting again! Stop the presses! :smallbiggrin:

Yes. Yes please. Stop the presses and get the editing right. :smalltongue:

[karkus]

I remember seeing it before, but where exactly is Practiced Spellcasting? Complete Arcane?

Also, it's a natural attack that can (sort of) deal more damage than the below-average-warrior's longsword does. I think it's fine just the way it is. :smalltongue:

EDIT: Never mind; I found it in Complete Arcane

[JoshuaZ]

I'm pretty sure we've seen Xykon using a negative energy touch, so that may be where he's remembering it from. I forget if it was in the main strip or in SoD, but I'm pretty sure we've seen it.

SoD. When he's lichified he plays with it with a few Goblins and makes a joke shaking Redcloak's hand.