TripleD
2013-03-18, 10:44 AM
Came across a problem the other day. If a player casts "Enlarge Person" on themselves, then decides they want to toss that annoying Kobold across the room, what happens exactly? Besides the airborn reptilian of course...
What Exists
Surprisingly little. All I could find were "Fling Enemy" and "Fling Ally" in the "Races of Stone" rulebook. In addition to costing a feat each, they have the prerequisite of another feat, "Rock Hurling", plus 19 strength and a Large size. Seems pretty wasteful and narrow for something that should require nothing more than basic motor skills.
Proposed Fix
A new special attack called "Throw Creature". Like "Trip" or "Bull Rush", any creature can do it, but only certain builds will be able to use it to their maximum potential.
Short Version
| 1.Grapple | 2.Lift | 3.Throw | 4.Land
General | Make a Grapple check with the target. If you make and maintain the grapple, move on to the next step. | If the target's weight is less than your "Lift Over Head", you lift it over your head. This provokes an attack of opportunity from any creature within reach (but not the lifting target). You lose your dexterity bonus, shield bonus, may not attack (except to throw), and your speed is reduced 5ft. | Deduct creatures weight from "Lift Over Head". For every 100lbs you may throw 5 feet (minimum 5ft). Range is twice your reach. Empty squares have AC 5. | Take normal falling damage for distance thrown. If thrown into a creature, split the damage between them and treat first d6 of damage to thrown creature as non-lethal.
Willing Target | Ignore this step | Unchanged | The target may make a DEX-based "Aid Another" to add +2 to the attack roll | If you are thrown against an enemy creature, you may make a single standard attack against them. You may not do this is you have already used your standard attack this round, and you may not make another standard attack this round.
Unwilling Target | Unchanged | You must beat another grapple check. This counts as part of the move action to lift over head. | You take a -4 penalty to your attack roll | Unchanged
Long Version
In D&D we want to keep the math as simple as possible (I have no interest in "Excel"ling the game more than it already is). So let's make it a simple function of strength and grid distance. Large, Huge, etc. sized creatures already get a bonus to weight lifting, so there's no need to factor that in.
Using "Throw Creature"
There are two kinds situations where you would want to throw a creature: you are either throwing an unwilling enemy for damage, or flinging a willing ally as part of some strategy. The different cases will be explained, but both follow the same basic pattern.
Step 1 - Preparing to Throw
Grapple with the unwilling target creature. If you can maintain the grapple move on to step two. If throwing an willing target you can skip this step.
Step Two - Lift Over Head
Check your "Lift Over Head" stat. If it is greater than or equal to the weight of the living caber you may make another grapple check with the target. Winning that grapple means you lift the creature above your head. If you are dealing with a willing target you do not have to do a grapple check.
No matter whether it is a willing or unwilling target (i.e. grapple or no grapple) this takes a single move action, as opposed to the standard action a grapple normally needs.
Lifting the creature above your head provokes an attack of opportunity from anyone within reach (but not the creature being lifted). You lose your dexterity bonus, shield bonus, may not make an attack that is not a throw (including grappling damage), and your land speed is reduced by 5ft.
If you are hit while raising the target above your head you must beat a concentration check (10 + damage dealt) or drop the target creature prone in your own square.
Aside: One or Two-Handed? If you are two size categories greater than the target creature, you may lift them with just one hand and only provoke Attacks of Opportunity from creatures that can reach the side you threw with. In addition, you may use your non-grappling hand to attack or shield as normal. If you are less than two sizes larger you must lift with both hands and the above penalties apply.
Step 3 - Le Chuck
As a standard action, throw the creature you are holding.
To discover how far you may throw, subtract the target's weight from your "Lift Over Head". For every 100lbs remaining you can throw them an additional 5 feet. This is a mostly horizontal throw. If you want, you may throw 1/2 this distance or less to throw 1/2 the maximum distance vertically. Either way, deal damage as if the maximum distance was thrown (speed of impact and all that)
For the target, make a thrown weapon attack against what you want to hit (treat an unoccupied square as having AC 5) with range being twice your reach. The normal limit of 5x your weapon's range does not apply here.
An unwilling target, due to all their kicking and fidgeting, adds -4 to your roll.
A willing target may use a DEX-based Aid Another to add +2 to your roll.
Example: Gerta the Grappling Githyanki has 18 strength and has been enlarged, thus granting her an extra +2 to strength. She reaches out and successfully grabs a slightly obese goblin weighing 50 pounds. Her "Lift Over Head" is 800 (400 x2 for Large size), meaning that she can throw it:
800 - 50 = 750
750/100 = 7
7 squares, or 35 feet.
She picks an unoccupied space 30 feet away. Her reach is 10ft (range 20ft), so she will have a -4 penalty to her throw:
d20 + 3 (BAB) - 4 (unwilling opponent) - 2 (one range increments) > 5 (AC of unoccupied space)
Thus she must roll an 8 to hit her target with the goblin.
If you fail to hit the target roll a d8. A "1" means your creature lands in the square, adjacent to the target, closest to you. 2-8 continue clockwise around the target in this fashion.
Step 3.5 - Landing
Not every throw will live up to it's potential. While there are countless things that could cut an arc short, most fall into two categories.
Softened Fall
Anything that offers you a bit of deceleration (snow, haystacks, other creature's, etc.) counts as a softened fall. Treat the first d6 of damage as non-lethal. There are some special rules for falling into water that you can find in the SRD.
Interrupted Fall
If you throw your character into something unyielding, such as a tree or stone wall, then all the energy from the fall gets absorbed by the character and they take damage as if they had fallen the full distance. This also covers throwing someone to the (hard) ground (sort of like a goo-filled bang snap).
Step 5 - Damage
There are three possible outcomes here: target is thrown against a unoccupied space, and unwilling target against a creature, or willing target against a creature.
In keeping with the K.I.S.S. principle of this post, a thrown impact is basically a sideways fall, so we'll use the rules that already exist with the added caveat that you land in a prone position.
Unoccupied Space
Deal damage normally.
Unwilling Creature Against Target
Split the damage in half. The Unwilling creature may take the first d6 as non-lethal damage, since the other creature created a softened fall. The other creature takes full lethal damage.
The thrown creature ends up lying prone in the same square as the target.
Willing Creature Against Target
Split the damage the same way as above. In addition, the willing target may choose to make one standard attack against the target before falling prone in the same square.
This attack must be taken immediately after hitting the target, and counts as the creature's standard action for the round. They may still take their move action when their turn arrives (if they have not already used it), and may not attack if they have already taken a standard action this round.
Example: Earlier, Gerta delivered 35 feet of massive internal trauma to her little green friend. According to the SRD, for every ten feet you fall it's a d6 of damage (max 20d6). Assuming that the total kinetic energy from horizontal and vertical momentum evens out in the wash:
35 / 10 = 3
So a total of 3d6 damage from the throw.
Questions
What if there's a creature between me and the target?
You may attempt to "lob" your target creature up to half the maximum horizontal distance possible. Add a -2 penalty for each creature you must throw over.
Shouldn't heavier creatures do more damage?
Yes, but like I said, we want to keep the math simple on this. If you really want to change this, a simple method is to just increase or decrease the die for falling damage. That is: Medium creatures use d6, Small creatures d4, Large creatures d8, etc.
What about Tumble Checks?
As per the SRD, beating a DC15 tumble check while being thrown allows you to arrange your body in such a way that you treat the throw as ten feet shorter than it really is. This stacks with a Softened Fall. You also do not land prone.
Can I attack as I pass by?
You know someone's going to ask to do this. If you can beat a DC30 tumble check you may attack and continue past the target to land non-prone. But you will no longer be splitting the damage and the surface may or may not Soften your Fall, so use this wisely.
Really High Strength?
In what is likely the worst day of his life, our goblin from earlier lands at the feet of Albert the Cloud Giant. Annoyed at the regurgitated goblin innards on his sandals, the purple people eater picks their owner up and throws him as far as he can. With a "Lift Above Head" of 12 800lbs, that works out to about 635 feet.
While distances like these will definitely take a character out of combat, they most likely won't be enough to kill a reasonably well built fighter or barbarian. Basically warn your players that you are using this rule so they can work on a backup plan.
What if the d8 gives me an occupied square?
Let's say that you miss your target and the d8 says your character lands in an occupied square. In that case your thrown Creature hits whatever is in that square (friend or foe). Calculate damage as per the rules earlier.
Feats
A few treats to take advantage of this new special attack and make builds a bit easier.
Improved Throw Creature (Improved Grapple) - You have become more skilled at raising a struggling creatures above your head. You no longer need to make a grapple check to lift a creature for a throw (you must still make the initial grapple however).
Greater Improved Throw Creature (Improved Grapple, Improved Throw Creature) - Despite the awkwardness and unbalanced shape of most living things, you can throw them with great accuracy. You no longer take a -4 penalty when throwing a creature against a specific target.
Bouncer (General) - When throwing a creature of the same size category as you, you may use your "Lift Off ground" value instead of your "Lift Over head".
Traveling (Improved Throw Creature) - You may move your character and raise a grappled creature above your head as a single move action. This movement must be unobstructed and in a straight line. You may use your full movement, unless the creature's weight changes your encumbrance category.
Cannonball (General) - You have become very good at positioning your body while being thrown. When you are the willing participant of a Throw Creature attack and make a softened fall, you may make a reflex save of 10 + distance/5 to take half damage.
Master Cannonball (Cannonball) - Same as Cannonball, except a successful reflex save negates all damage, and a failure results in half damage.
What Exists
Surprisingly little. All I could find were "Fling Enemy" and "Fling Ally" in the "Races of Stone" rulebook. In addition to costing a feat each, they have the prerequisite of another feat, "Rock Hurling", plus 19 strength and a Large size. Seems pretty wasteful and narrow for something that should require nothing more than basic motor skills.
Proposed Fix
A new special attack called "Throw Creature". Like "Trip" or "Bull Rush", any creature can do it, but only certain builds will be able to use it to their maximum potential.
Short Version
| 1.Grapple | 2.Lift | 3.Throw | 4.Land
General | Make a Grapple check with the target. If you make and maintain the grapple, move on to the next step. | If the target's weight is less than your "Lift Over Head", you lift it over your head. This provokes an attack of opportunity from any creature within reach (but not the lifting target). You lose your dexterity bonus, shield bonus, may not attack (except to throw), and your speed is reduced 5ft. | Deduct creatures weight from "Lift Over Head". For every 100lbs you may throw 5 feet (minimum 5ft). Range is twice your reach. Empty squares have AC 5. | Take normal falling damage for distance thrown. If thrown into a creature, split the damage between them and treat first d6 of damage to thrown creature as non-lethal.
Willing Target | Ignore this step | Unchanged | The target may make a DEX-based "Aid Another" to add +2 to the attack roll | If you are thrown against an enemy creature, you may make a single standard attack against them. You may not do this is you have already used your standard attack this round, and you may not make another standard attack this round.
Unwilling Target | Unchanged | You must beat another grapple check. This counts as part of the move action to lift over head. | You take a -4 penalty to your attack roll | Unchanged
Long Version
In D&D we want to keep the math as simple as possible (I have no interest in "Excel"ling the game more than it already is). So let's make it a simple function of strength and grid distance. Large, Huge, etc. sized creatures already get a bonus to weight lifting, so there's no need to factor that in.
Using "Throw Creature"
There are two kinds situations where you would want to throw a creature: you are either throwing an unwilling enemy for damage, or flinging a willing ally as part of some strategy. The different cases will be explained, but both follow the same basic pattern.
Step 1 - Preparing to Throw
Grapple with the unwilling target creature. If you can maintain the grapple move on to step two. If throwing an willing target you can skip this step.
Step Two - Lift Over Head
Check your "Lift Over Head" stat. If it is greater than or equal to the weight of the living caber you may make another grapple check with the target. Winning that grapple means you lift the creature above your head. If you are dealing with a willing target you do not have to do a grapple check.
No matter whether it is a willing or unwilling target (i.e. grapple or no grapple) this takes a single move action, as opposed to the standard action a grapple normally needs.
Lifting the creature above your head provokes an attack of opportunity from anyone within reach (but not the creature being lifted). You lose your dexterity bonus, shield bonus, may not make an attack that is not a throw (including grappling damage), and your land speed is reduced by 5ft.
If you are hit while raising the target above your head you must beat a concentration check (10 + damage dealt) or drop the target creature prone in your own square.
Aside: One or Two-Handed? If you are two size categories greater than the target creature, you may lift them with just one hand and only provoke Attacks of Opportunity from creatures that can reach the side you threw with. In addition, you may use your non-grappling hand to attack or shield as normal. If you are less than two sizes larger you must lift with both hands and the above penalties apply.
Step 3 - Le Chuck
As a standard action, throw the creature you are holding.
To discover how far you may throw, subtract the target's weight from your "Lift Over Head". For every 100lbs remaining you can throw them an additional 5 feet. This is a mostly horizontal throw. If you want, you may throw 1/2 this distance or less to throw 1/2 the maximum distance vertically. Either way, deal damage as if the maximum distance was thrown (speed of impact and all that)
For the target, make a thrown weapon attack against what you want to hit (treat an unoccupied square as having AC 5) with range being twice your reach. The normal limit of 5x your weapon's range does not apply here.
An unwilling target, due to all their kicking and fidgeting, adds -4 to your roll.
A willing target may use a DEX-based Aid Another to add +2 to your roll.
Example: Gerta the Grappling Githyanki has 18 strength and has been enlarged, thus granting her an extra +2 to strength. She reaches out and successfully grabs a slightly obese goblin weighing 50 pounds. Her "Lift Over Head" is 800 (400 x2 for Large size), meaning that she can throw it:
800 - 50 = 750
750/100 = 7
7 squares, or 35 feet.
She picks an unoccupied space 30 feet away. Her reach is 10ft (range 20ft), so she will have a -4 penalty to her throw:
d20 + 3 (BAB) - 4 (unwilling opponent) - 2 (one range increments) > 5 (AC of unoccupied space)
Thus she must roll an 8 to hit her target with the goblin.
If you fail to hit the target roll a d8. A "1" means your creature lands in the square, adjacent to the target, closest to you. 2-8 continue clockwise around the target in this fashion.
Step 3.5 - Landing
Not every throw will live up to it's potential. While there are countless things that could cut an arc short, most fall into two categories.
Softened Fall
Anything that offers you a bit of deceleration (snow, haystacks, other creature's, etc.) counts as a softened fall. Treat the first d6 of damage as non-lethal. There are some special rules for falling into water that you can find in the SRD.
Interrupted Fall
If you throw your character into something unyielding, such as a tree or stone wall, then all the energy from the fall gets absorbed by the character and they take damage as if they had fallen the full distance. This also covers throwing someone to the (hard) ground (sort of like a goo-filled bang snap).
Step 5 - Damage
There are three possible outcomes here: target is thrown against a unoccupied space, and unwilling target against a creature, or willing target against a creature.
In keeping with the K.I.S.S. principle of this post, a thrown impact is basically a sideways fall, so we'll use the rules that already exist with the added caveat that you land in a prone position.
Unoccupied Space
Deal damage normally.
Unwilling Creature Against Target
Split the damage in half. The Unwilling creature may take the first d6 as non-lethal damage, since the other creature created a softened fall. The other creature takes full lethal damage.
The thrown creature ends up lying prone in the same square as the target.
Willing Creature Against Target
Split the damage the same way as above. In addition, the willing target may choose to make one standard attack against the target before falling prone in the same square.
This attack must be taken immediately after hitting the target, and counts as the creature's standard action for the round. They may still take their move action when their turn arrives (if they have not already used it), and may not attack if they have already taken a standard action this round.
Example: Earlier, Gerta delivered 35 feet of massive internal trauma to her little green friend. According to the SRD, for every ten feet you fall it's a d6 of damage (max 20d6). Assuming that the total kinetic energy from horizontal and vertical momentum evens out in the wash:
35 / 10 = 3
So a total of 3d6 damage from the throw.
Questions
What if there's a creature between me and the target?
You may attempt to "lob" your target creature up to half the maximum horizontal distance possible. Add a -2 penalty for each creature you must throw over.
Shouldn't heavier creatures do more damage?
Yes, but like I said, we want to keep the math simple on this. If you really want to change this, a simple method is to just increase or decrease the die for falling damage. That is: Medium creatures use d6, Small creatures d4, Large creatures d8, etc.
What about Tumble Checks?
As per the SRD, beating a DC15 tumble check while being thrown allows you to arrange your body in such a way that you treat the throw as ten feet shorter than it really is. This stacks with a Softened Fall. You also do not land prone.
Can I attack as I pass by?
You know someone's going to ask to do this. If you can beat a DC30 tumble check you may attack and continue past the target to land non-prone. But you will no longer be splitting the damage and the surface may or may not Soften your Fall, so use this wisely.
Really High Strength?
In what is likely the worst day of his life, our goblin from earlier lands at the feet of Albert the Cloud Giant. Annoyed at the regurgitated goblin innards on his sandals, the purple people eater picks their owner up and throws him as far as he can. With a "Lift Above Head" of 12 800lbs, that works out to about 635 feet.
While distances like these will definitely take a character out of combat, they most likely won't be enough to kill a reasonably well built fighter or barbarian. Basically warn your players that you are using this rule so they can work on a backup plan.
What if the d8 gives me an occupied square?
Let's say that you miss your target and the d8 says your character lands in an occupied square. In that case your thrown Creature hits whatever is in that square (friend or foe). Calculate damage as per the rules earlier.
Feats
A few treats to take advantage of this new special attack and make builds a bit easier.
Improved Throw Creature (Improved Grapple) - You have become more skilled at raising a struggling creatures above your head. You no longer need to make a grapple check to lift a creature for a throw (you must still make the initial grapple however).
Greater Improved Throw Creature (Improved Grapple, Improved Throw Creature) - Despite the awkwardness and unbalanced shape of most living things, you can throw them with great accuracy. You no longer take a -4 penalty when throwing a creature against a specific target.
Bouncer (General) - When throwing a creature of the same size category as you, you may use your "Lift Off ground" value instead of your "Lift Over head".
Traveling (Improved Throw Creature) - You may move your character and raise a grappled creature above your head as a single move action. This movement must be unobstructed and in a straight line. You may use your full movement, unless the creature's weight changes your encumbrance category.
Cannonball (General) - You have become very good at positioning your body while being thrown. When you are the willing participant of a Throw Creature attack and make a softened fall, you may make a reflex save of 10 + distance/5 to take half damage.
Master Cannonball (Cannonball) - Same as Cannonball, except a successful reflex save negates all damage, and a failure results in half damage.