Sherlock is coming back!

[Kosmopolite]

Hey, I'm sure we've got a thread on this already, but with the new series being filmed as we speak, it seemed criminal we're not talking about it.

The latest news it the title to S03E01: The Empty Hearse (http://www.themarysue.com/bbc-sherlock-season-three-the-empty-hearse/), which will be based (however loosely) on Doyle's The Empty House. Seb Moran and all!

What are you looking forward to or hoping for in the show we'll hopefully see again soon?

[navar100]

I watch "Elementary" instead. It's a modern update, but I like it. They made Sherlock's cocaine use into a heroin addiction he's recovering from since his girlfriend Irene Adler was killed. He/we learn in the series it was by Moriarty. Watson, a female former doctor who quit when a patient died, is his sober companion hired by his father. When the term is up, Sherlock in a rare show of some emotion admits he really likes her and officially makes her his partner, to teach her how to be a detective. Instead of Scotland Yard it's the New York Police Department, and unlike the original stories, the police are competent and Sherlock acknowledges it.

[Kosmopolite]

I watch both. I don't think they have to be mutually exclusive.

[Mewtarthio]

Literally one post in and we're already arguing about the American remake?

[Socratov]

I watch "Elementary" instead. It's a modern update, but I like it. They made Sherlock's cocaine use into a heroin addiction he's recovering from since his girlfriend Irene Adler was killed. He/we learn in the series it was by Moriarty. Watson, a female former doctor who quit when a patient died, is his sober companion hired by his father. When the term is up, Sherlock in a rare show of some emotion admits he really likes her and officially makes her his partner, to teach her how to be a detective. Instead of Scotland Yard it's the New York Police Department, and unlike the original stories, the police are competent and Sherlock acknowledges it.

But... that takes the whole fun out of it... Sherlock ripping on the incompetency of Scotland Yard is one of the main funny points in the books. (and he's fairly creative about it).

But I have done a happydance since I heard Sherlock is continuing... Can't wait for herlock explaining John that he is in fact not dead.

[Kosmopolite]

It's an impressive record, to be sure.

I like Elementary. I think it's great. I wasn't sure at first, but I've really gotten into the characters.

I started this thread to talk about Sherlock news, but we can talk about both if you like. :)

EDIT: I love how Sherlock is played in Elementary as I kind of twitchy addict. I think it has a charm of its own, whereas I see Sherlock (the show) is a much closer modern adaptation. As I said before, though, I like them both.

[Grinner]

I saw a trailer for Elementary but never got around to watching it.

As for Sherlock, ... (spoilered, because of spoilers) the man's dead! We saw him jump off a freaking building! I don't care that he showed up to his own funeral. He's DEAD!

"But wait!", you say. "Could it not have been Moriarti's body that fell from the sky?" Well, unless Sherlock rolled consecutive natural 20's on his Disguise checks, no.

[BRC]

It's an impressive record, to be sure.

I like Elementary. I think it's great. I wasn't sure at first, but I've really gotten into the characters.

I started this thread to talk about Sherlock news, but we can talk about both if you like. :)

I'm tempted to give Elementary a chance....except for one thing, the Scarf.

Had they not depicted their version of Holmes wearing a Scarf, I might be willing the show was conceived on it's own merits, that an American company decided to do a Modern Sherlock Holmes show and decided to localize it in the States.
However, The Scarf, which is not an iconic part of Sherlock Holmes, but IS somewhat iconic for BBC's Sherlock, means that the existence of Elementary hits one of my personal pet peeves: Pointless American remakes of quality British stuff. I just picture some cigar-chomping producer saying "Hey, people are liking that BBC show, Shirley Lockheed or whatever. Make me one of those, but strip out all that weird english stuff"



Why yes, I am being petty.

[Temotei]

As for Sherlock, ... (spoilered, because of spoilers) the man's dead! We saw him jump off a freaking building! I don't care that he showed up to his own funeral. He's DEAD!

No, really. There was a garbage truck there. He leapt into the truck to make everyone think he died with people covering up his landing spot until he could either move there himself or have a lookalike take his place (which would be okay, since Watson got hit by the biker and was disoriented as well as miserable and panicked.).

[Kosmopolite]

I saw a trailer for Elementary but never got around to watching it.

As for Sherlock, ... (spoilered, because of spoilers) the man's dead! We saw him jump off a freaking building! I don't care that he showed up to his own funeral. He's DEAD!

"But wait!", you say. "Could it not have been Moriarti's body that fell from the sky?" Well, unless Sherlock rolled consecutive natural 20's on his Disguise checks, no.

True, but it was said that the resolution to that spoiler was filmed concurrently, and these are writers know for pulling tricky twists in situations like this. I wouldn't put it past them. Particularly Moffat. I don't think it'll be a cop-out. I trust in the Great and Powerful Moff. ;)

[BRC]

True, but it was said that the resolution to that spoiler was filmed concurrently, and these are writers know for pulling tricky twists in situations like this. I wouldn't put it past them. Particularly Moffat. I don't think it'll be a cop-out. I trust in the Great and Powerful Moff. ;)

Also, Sherlock Holmes ALWAYS survives Reichenbach Falls.

[Kosmopolite]

True. Originally because of publisher pressure, as I understand.

[BRC]

True. Originally because of publisher pressure, as I understand.
Publisher, the public, And Doyle's Mother IIRC.

He said "Fine, I'll write more if you give me [Obscenely large amount of money]"
and they said "We can do that".

[Temotei]

Doyle's Mother

Moms OP. :smallamused:

I hope this is through some sort of channeling and not just history or old letters.

[Kosmopolite]

Capitalism's one and only attempt to be a good guy. :D

I know what you mean, BRC, about the rip-off thing, and I think that cigar-smoking producer was the start of it, if you look at some interviews with the BBC team around the same time. After a couple of episodes, though, it really pulls away and becomes an entity in and of itself. I'm not sure how honest you'd be calling it an adaptation of either Sherlock Holmes or BBC's Sherlock, to be honest. It has too much original stuff going on. Honestly, I think the name was just used to get people to watch another crime show. Nonetheless, it's a bloody good crime show.

If I were to give you a recommendation, I'd say ignore that characters' names and give it a shot on its own merits. You might rather like it.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

I've seen enough theories around Tumblr that I likely won't be very surprised at the resolution to SPOILER.

F'rinstance,
Someone pointed out that Sherlock was tossing a rubber ball up and down, in a prior scene, and it's a known conjuring trick that you can brace one of those against your upper arm in order to fake having no pulse in that arm. All Sherlock had to do was predict which arm John would check.

Don't forget that he got Molly's help for something.

[huttj509]

I find it really interesting to compare and contrast various shows and such based to varying extents on Mr. Doyle's work and characters.

Let's see...

Elementary
Sherlock
House
The Mentalist
Law and Order: Criminal Intent
Psych
Monk
basically all the "socially awkward brilliant person solving crimes" shows...


I really was not expecting to like Elementary. I now catch it every week when it's a new episode. I like Sherlock as well, but for different reasons. they're really different shows, with their own merits.


REALLY looking forward to the new Sherlock episodes. Loved how in the second series it seemed to find its stride (first series was great, but felt a bit rough in the pacing, as if it hadn't quite figured out what it was yet, or how directly to reference the stories). The Reichenbach Fall made me love Moriarty's character, when I really didn't care for him after the last episode of series 1. Re-contextualized the character.

[navar100]

Literally one post in and we're already arguing about the American remake?

It's so superior anyway.

I have no issue of anyone watching both. I just happen to like Elementary.

[Helanna]

I'm so excited. I can't wait for Series 3. :smallbiggrin:

I'm pretty sure I watched an interview the other day where Martin Freeman said that even after reading the script for the first episode, he doesn't know how Sherlock did it. I don't know if he's lying or it just wasn't in the script that he read, but man we'd better find out how it was done.

[SlyGuyMcFly]

Yessssssss. *bounces around excitedly* Best news all day!




I watch "Elementary" instead. It's a modern update, but I like it. They made Sherlock's cocaine use into a heroin addiction he's recovering from since his girlfriend Irene Adler was killed. He/we learn in the series it was by Moriarty. Watson, a female former doctor who quit when a patient died, is his sober companion hired by his father. When the term is up, Sherlock in a rare show of some emotion admits he really likes her and officially makes her his partner, to teach her how to be a detective. Instead of Scotland Yard it's the New York Police Department, and unlike the original stories, the police are competent and Sherlock acknowledges it.

They Rule 63'd Watson? I'm equal parts intrigued and horrified. I'll have to check it out.

[navar100]

They Rule 63'd Watson? I'm equal parts intrigued and horrified. I'll have to check it out.

I was bothered by the idea at first. (It's StarBUCK not StarDoe) However, Watson is written well. They aren't She-Woman about it. She's played by Lucy Liu, so you can't go wrong.

I also have a bias in that I went to the same high school as Lucy Liu and only two tears junior. Never knew her, but we did attend at the same time for a bit.

[Hawriel]

I am enjoying Elementary however I am wary that they will start a romance plot between Sherlock and Watson. Hopefully they will keep it as a platonic friendship.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Somebody lemme know when Elementary does a case about a bunch of people being murdered by a Hattori Hanso blade.

[navar100]

I am enjoying Elementary however I am wary that they will start a romance plot between Sherlock and Watson. Hopefully they will keep it as a platonic friendship.

Ditto. I hope they learned the lesson of "Moonlighting". Keep the focus on the cases. It's ok to show some personal life, but never make them a couple and lose focus on the whole point of the show.

Though Moriarty hasn't been seen yet you knew they would get to him eventually. Interesting they made Irene Adler, one of the very few guilty party in the stories to get away with it, Sherlock's girlfriend. Either way, she's "that woman". I wonder when Sherlock's brother will come into play.

[turkishproverb]

It'll be fun to have back.


On "Elementary" I have to say. Ok, it's not a horrible show, but watching it I can't help but feel the network should have just paid the cost to buy do more seasons of "House". It's watches as the same show with a smaller cast and differently employed star.

[Kato]

I am enjoying Elementary however I am wary that they will start a romance plot between Sherlock and Watson. Hopefully they will keep it as a platonic friendship.

If Sherlock doesn't keep their relationship platonic why would Elementary do so? [/tumblr fangirls]


Okay, serious now. I'm excited for Sherlock season 3 but... is there really that much new to discuss apart from "they started filming"?

I've seen the pilot of Elementary. It wasn't terrible and it wasn't great... I guess I'd watch it if I had the time to spare or once I have the time to spare.

[Goosefeather]

I gave Elementary a go, but it didn't work for me. Without the Holmes branding, it would have made a perfectly average, if pedestrian, crime drama. However, it suffers terribly when put next to Sherlock. It's like having average looks and personality, but insisting on hanging around your incredibly attractive and charismatic older sibling - you suffer from the comparison more than from anything intrinsic to you.

[Das Platyvark]

2 things relevant to Sherlock:
Wild Guessing:My Personal Theory is that in addition to the various methods mentioned before, he enlists Molly to run the autopsy and proclaim him dead, and has left a document somewhere about indicating his wish for a closed casket funeral. And My personal hopes for the upcoming series: Preposterous as it might seem, my hope for the new series is that the first episode covers John slowly getting over Sherlock's death, meeting a girl (They've brought in plenty of characters from the books, but they've yet to touch on Mary Morstan) and ending with Sherlock walking in on John's wedding/other romantic event that will help him get over his friend.

[LokeyITP]

Elementary is a pretty decent CBS formula crime procedural. Cast is great except for Liu (Tarantino got a decent performance out of her, she wasn't this bad in Slevin...), production values are decent if camera-work is really boring and flat (unusual since most CBS shows are pretty good there, but I don't tend to watch much of them because omigod formulaic). I've seen most of them, and the writing and characterization probably needs some help...seems like we're watching post Reichenbach Batman-Holmes instead of early Holmes.

Not sure how long it takes to film Sherlock, would think 6-8 weeks/ep at least (they tend to be pretty to very complicated scenes)? Plus post-production, maybe early next year for air?

[Mauve Shirt]

Elementary is a mystery- a-week drama that functions perfectly as one of those, but it is missing all of the canon jokes that make Sherlock so enjoyable for me.
Also, YAY SHERLOCK IS COMING BACK!!!!!

[Renegade Paladin]

I watch "Elementary" instead. It's a modern update, but I like it. They made Sherlock's cocaine use into a heroin addiction he's recovering from since his girlfriend Irene Adler was killed. He/we learn in the series it was by Moriarty. Watson, a female former doctor who quit when a patient died, is his sober companion hired by his father. When the term is up, Sherlock in a rare show of some emotion admits he really likes her and officially makes her his partner, to teach her how to be a detective. Instead of Scotland Yard it's the New York Police Department, and unlike the original stories, the police are competent and Sherlock acknowledges it.
The police aren't universally ragingly incompetent in the original stories; Holmes is just better at it. Watson isn't a dimwit either except in some later adaptations, certainly not in the Doyle originals.

[Socratov]

The police aren't universally ragingly incompetent in the original stories; Holmes is just better at it. Watson isn't a dimwit either except in some later adaptations, certainly not in the Doyle originals.

Indeed... however, just to show off Sherlock's intellect everyone else is downplayed. Also keep in mind that the original books are written form Watson's perspective, sometimes you are granted a look in Sherlock's head when Sherlock tells John about his exploits. Since Sherlock is a genius instead of 'regular brainiac' he comes across as condecending, cocky, annoying, and as a general *******. If you reverse the POV you get that the rest are (compared to Sherlock): dimwitted, stupid, blind, deaf, slow, etc. Hence Sherlock frequently telling John: "As always John, you see but you do not observe". Same goes for the police. So, sherlock wouldn't be sherlock if the police weren't shown to be incompetent buffoons and that John Watson just seems too blind to see (for the rest smart enough though).

But honestly, I can't wait... I've been reviewing the seasons 1 and 2 before I'll ever get to watching the coming season...

[Jimorian]

My theory on the fall.
The bystanders were all Baker St. Irregulars and they used one of those canvas firefighter's catchers. Catch him, roll him onto the sidewalk, and quickly fold it up and dump it in the garbage truck (which also shields this from Watson's view).

Edit: looking at the scene again, the padding in the back of the truck is pretty obvious, and the people are a bit too scattered for my original theory.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

My theory on the fall.
The bystanders were all Baker St. Irregulars and they used one of those canvas firefighter's catchers. Catch him, roll him onto the sidewalk, and quickly fold it up and dump it in the garbage truck (which also shields this from Watson's view).

Edit: looking at the scene again, the padding in the back of the truck is pretty obvious, and the people are a bit too scattered for my original theory.
However, it is pretty clear that the one dude on the bike runs into Watson intentionally.

[Aran nu tasar]

As regards the fall, the most complete theory I've seen is here (http://finalproblem.tumblr.com/post/16308384121/hey-sherlockians-want-to-play-a-game-a-slightly), while some slightly more absurd (but scarily plausible) theories about the rest of the episode and Moriarty's plans are here (http://finalproblem.tumblr.com/theory-index).

I am really curious to see how the show manages without Moriarty to drive the plot and be generally creepy and awesome. Fully half the episodes in seasons 1/2 revolved around Moriarty in a significant way, two of the remaining had the benefit of being essentially direct adaptations of a longer story (Hound of the Baskervilles, A Study in Scarlet), and the other one was, in my opinion, terrible. Moriarty was a brilliant foil to Holmes, and I'm curious to see what they will do without him.

[Mauve Shirt]

@^ Only 2 did, really... which one did you dislike?

[Aran nu tasar]

@^ Only 2 did, really... which one did you dislike?

I wasn't a fan of the Blind Banker. It has been a while since I saw it, so I don't have a huge amount of specific reasons, but I felt that it was weak compared to the others. I felt like it was a little too action-focused, but again I haven't seen it recently.

And I'm treating A Scandal in Belgravia as being Moriarty-centric, because he does play a fairly large part, even if it is mostly concerned with Irene. I suppose on second thought that it was nowhere near as focused on Moriarty as the other two, but he drove the plot in a more immediate way than in the other episodes.

[Dienekes]

I wasn't a fan of the Blind Banker. It has been a while since I saw it, so I don't have a huge amount of specific reasons, but I felt that it was weak compared to the others. I felt like it was a little too action-focused, but again I haven't seen it recently.

And I'm treating A Scandal in Belgravia as being Moriarty-centric, because he does play a fairly large part, even if it is mostly concerned with Irene. I suppose on second thought that it was nowhere near as focused on Moriarty as the other two, but he drove the plot in a more immediate way than in the other episodes.

Blind Banker tends to be the one most like the least, and I agree, but I wouldn't call it terrible. I still enjoyed watching it myself, just not to the same extent as every other episode.

[Minitroll]

My friend and I came up with a nice and convoluted plot.

So, Sherlock asked a favor from the girl who I can't remember the name of- we never learned what it was. Sherlock knew Moriarty would pull this stunt, and Moriarty knew he planned to shoot himself. Each of them set up a fake death for themselves.

However, our theory mainly concludes in The Empty Hearse. A Hearse is a coffin, essentially. Instantly, most people, believed it was Sherlock. However, we think it's Moriarty's. Moriarty has his burial put on by the state, with gaurds. Moriarty goes 'peek-a-boo: STAYIN' ALIVE!' and puts everyone, including Watson in danger they can't get out of, knowing Sherlock would have to reveal himself to save Watson, creating a problem.

Thoughts?

[Gwyn chan 'r Gwyll]

As regards the fall, the most complete theory I've seen is here (http://finalproblem.tumblr.com/post/16308384121/hey-sherlockians-want-to-play-a-game-a-slightly), while some slightly more absurd (but scarily plausible) theories about the rest of the episode and Moriarty's plans are here (http://finalproblem.tumblr.com/theory-index).


You. You got me to waste an hour and a half at LEAST that I should have been writing this essay... but it was so fun :smallcool:

[Kato]

My friend and I came up with a nice and convoluted plot.

So, Sherlock asked a favor from the girl who I can't remember the name of- we never learned what it was. Sherlock knew Moriarty would pull this stunt, and Moriarty knew he planned to shoot himself. Each of them set up a fake death for themselves.

However, our theory mainly concludes in The Empty Hearse. A Hearse is a coffin, essentially. Instantly, most people, believed it was Sherlock. However, we think it's Moriarty's. Moriarty has his burial put on by the state, with gaurds. Moriarty goes 'peek-a-boo: STAYIN' ALIVE!' and puts everyone, including Watson in danger they can't get out of, knowing Sherlock would have to reveal himself to save Watson, creating a problem.

Thoughts?
I'd say something but I'm not sure I can follow...

The girl's name is Molly by the way.

And all crazy theories about Sherlock surviving aside... fake shooting yourself in the head is just something I can't wrap my head around.

[Fortuna]

I'm quite fond of Elementary, on the whole. It's a much more human take on the man than Sherlock, which is interesting to see (bear in mind that as a Kiwi, I'm several episodes behind, so I haven't seen most of what's aired so far).