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View Full Version : Dark Heresy: Is it worth it?



Noedig
2013-03-18, 11:37 AM
Due to a recent windfall, I came into possession of a large number of Dark Heresy books. While I'm a huge fan of the universe, some of the rules seem positively obtuse on the surface. I'm sure further study would alleviate that problem, but my question remains. Is the system worth learning?

Leon
2013-03-18, 11:59 AM
Yes. The thing to remember is that its the first game of what is now 5 similar systems to over time some of the obtuse rules have been refined

Eldest
2013-03-18, 02:19 PM
In addition, remember: Dark Heresy doesn't have the players as the heroes. Often, their victory consists of surviving long enough to call in the heroes.

But yes, do look at some of the more recent rulebooks for some of the rules, and you might consider compressing some of the skills.

holywhippet
2013-03-18, 03:42 PM
It's not entirely a hard system to learn, but it can be kind of unbalanced. To start with, beginning characters usually have low skill levels and can fail doing even simply things. Secondly, the system can be pretty brutal in combat. Don't get too attached to any given character.

Surrealistik
2013-03-18, 03:43 PM
Massively unbalanced in favour of psykers.

Aside from that it's a good system, albeit extremely lethal and with starting acolytes failing routine tasks on a fairly regular basis if you play by the RAW.

Also be sure to consult the latest errata.

holywhippet
2013-03-18, 04:52 PM
Massively unbalanced in favour of psykers.


There is a catch with that though. Whenever a psyker uses their powers the have to make a roll on the "something interesting happens" table. If they roll badly they then roll on the "something bad happens" table. If they roll badly enough on that they get possessed by a daemon.

On top of that, from a role playing point of view, psykers tend to be avoided and distrusted by everyone who isn't a psyker.

Alleran
2013-03-18, 06:55 PM
There is a catch with that though. Whenever a psyker uses their powers the have to make a roll on the "something interesting happens" table. If they roll badly they then roll on the "something bad happens" table. If they roll badly enough on that they get possessed by a daemon.
Or they insta-gib themselves, no save.

Or they summon a Greater Daemon capable of trouncing dozens of the party at once. No save.

Or they ruin everything around them in a particularly "colourful" fashion. No save.

Or... yeah, it's a long list of disasters.

The Deathwatch book, at least (not sure about Dark Heresy or Rogue Trader), includes the Rite of Sanctioning, which can minimise the effects of the "something interesting happens" table. Unless you roll really badly on it, of course. When that happens, you're boned. Sometimes literally, in the case of Slaanesh. No save.

The system can be extremely lethal. Even optimising will only provide partial mitigation to the effects.

Asmodai
2013-03-18, 08:25 PM
Ascension also has sanctioning, but Ascension is a... controversial book overall :P

Dark Heresy is great, and in my experience people tend to be too scared of the Psykers to even try playing them. Mind you, i've heard horror stories on the net.

king.com
2013-03-18, 11:28 PM
Mind you, i've heard horror stories on the net.

Literally the only time i've ever heard horror stories. Basically you need to go out of your way to make a broken psyker, on their own they come with a big risk and its generally tempered by just kinda picking as you go.

I personally never had a huge problem with most of the rules though the way the book is organised and the rules are written isn't exactly nice (the way two weapon fighting works is definitely written pretty poorly).

The system is utterly fantastic if you don't ever want to play the big damn heroes. Your playing human beings in a universe where genetically engineered super soldiers cant handle what is out there. Imagine playing the canary in the coal mine, your sent in so that someone important can learn about the situation. If you die, there is something going on, if you survive it probably wasn't a big deal in the first place.

It's a great game about investigation, horror and survival. The combat isn't the best and is extremely lethal but given the goal of the game is usually to avoid it or only engage when you have done a load of preparation its not a huge deal.

If that sounds remotely appealing you will enjoy Dark Heresy. The rules boil down to take your stat, roll 1d100 and less than. The modifiers are mostly for the GM to hand out since skill checks based on the circumstances/context.

Anything in particular thats confusing you perhaps?

ArcturusV
2013-03-19, 12:03 AM
Depends, what does a "Horror story about a Psyker" mean?

I mean when i see those words together, I think of what did happen the one time I DMed a Dark Heresy game.

The Psyker went power mad, shooting of psychic powers every round despite the rest of the team saying "no... seriously... don't tempt fate like this!"

Eventually they were sneaking through a cargo bay that was being unloaded. So none of the containers were secured as they were being moved/readied to be moved. He decides he wants to use a divination power.

He rolls two 9s, double Psychic Phenomenon. Before I even roll what they are I tell him about his vision of Failure and Misfortune, with the Imperial Acquilla in flight being shattered and the dark laughter of thirsting gods.

... so we roll.

We get Falling Upwards and Chill Winds. So the party, and all these several ton heavy containers fall UP... and get blown around. Then it all comes crashing down. And as everyone knows, randomly falling objects do not fall in neat stacks.

Which I made up some rules for it on the spot. Ones that reasonably gave the characters all a chance to survive. In fact most of them did. The Tech-Priest got his arm smashed. He said "FLESH IS WEAK!" and las gunned the arm off to remove it from the container it was pinned under and cauterize the wound. The Psyker got out unscatched. Some players took damage. Nothing too notable. Other thant he Plot NPC they were supposed to be helping got killed. Head crushed flat.

... after about 3 hours of warning this guy about power use. The players finally said screw it, and Lasgunned him to death. Psyker was PISSED. And raged at me about how (because he was a 40k Fanboy) that Psychic Powers never would have such a horrible consequence. And that divination was perfectly safe and would never create a mishap. And even high power psychic powers would never create a mishap like that.

I pointed to all the rules and said "Hey... it's what the game says."

Now THAT is a Psyker Horror Story to me.

LCP
2013-03-19, 12:25 AM
That sounds more like a player horror story than a psyker horror story to me.

I've had great fun GMing a series of Dark Heresy games over these forums. As others have said, it very much runs along the lines of the player as the little man, which I think works great as a viewpoint to present the 40K universe from. Just don't expect a non-stop rollercoaster of combat time - pretty much any group you put through too many combats in too short a time will come out the other side as mince. Which is as it should be... smart Acolytes pick their fights.

ArcturusV
2013-03-19, 12:45 AM
Oh, and adding on... Dark Heresy is also the sort of game where this can happen:

Immediately following the Psyker/Player Horror/Stupidity story. The group decides they need to loot the plot NPC to get some information and clues.

Said plot NPC was "booby trapped". He was a veteran who rigged himself up with several frag grenades to obliterate himself "Just in Case".

The players aren't taken out by it. But they are all very "WTF?!"... until they start learning a bit more about the game, how it works, and the setting. Then suddenly the idea that someone might set up an explosive suicide switch on themselves, rather than fall victim to... whatever... makes a WHOLE lot of sense.

king.com
2013-03-19, 01:42 AM
words

Nah I was more refering to the psyker with 200 willpower and every power and missing the entire point of the game kind of horror story.

I mean, there are people who play the game without rolling stats. Madness.

ArcturusV
2013-03-19, 01:45 AM
Weird. I mean it still wouldn't protect you from rolling a 9 and triggering something nasty though. So no matter how badly you build up your Psyker you're still going to do something horrible at least 10% of the time. Tick, tock, the time bomb is set.

Leon
2013-03-19, 05:53 AM
(because he was a 40k Fanboy) that Psychic Powers never would have such a horrible consequence.
He should have his Fanboy status revoked.

ShadowFighter15
2013-03-19, 07:39 AM
He should have his Fanboy status revoked.

He could be a Dan Abnett Fanboy - lots of psyker characters in the Eisenhorn and Ravenor books and no signs of anything unusual beyond frost building up on stuff when they use their powers.

Probably a good idea to point out how dangerous psychic powers are to anyone wanting to play a psyker - really hammer it home. Maybe work out the chance of summoning a daemon that's on every roll, make it clear that every power use carries that chance, regardless of what the power is.

Brox
2013-03-19, 02:45 PM
DH is mega-fun. I would recommend it to any who ask!

Doorhandle
2013-03-20, 07:30 AM
Literally the only time i've ever heard horror stories. Basically you need to go out of your way to make a broken psyker, on their own they come with a big risk and its generally tempered by just kinda picking as you go.

I personally never had a huge problem with most of the rules though the way the book is organised and the rules are written isn't exactly nice (the way two weapon fighting works is definitely written pretty poorly).

The system is utterly fantastic if you don't ever want to play the big damn heroes. Your playing human beings in a universe where genetically engineered super soldiers cant handle what is out there. Imagine playing the canary in the coal mine, your sent in so that someone important can learn about the situation. If you die, there is something going on, if you survive it probably wasn't a big deal in the first place.

It's a great game about investigation, horror and survival. The combat isn't the best and is extremely lethal but given the goal of the game is usually to avoid it or only engage when you have done a load of preparation its not a huge deal.

If that sounds remotely appealing you will enjoy Dark Heresy. The rules boil down to take your stat, roll 1d100 and less than. The modifiers are mostly for the GM to hand out since skill checks based on the circumstances/context.

Anything in particular thats confusing you perhaps?

That basically nails it, yes. Much like Call of Cthulhu, Dark Heresy is a game of survival horror.

DontEatRawHagis
2013-03-23, 09:15 AM
Rule #1: Only ask someone to roll a skill check when either a failure or a success will lead to the story moving forward. If the players MUST succeed then give it to them. Otherwise they will be running around with bags on their heads hitting every wall they come to.

The amount of fun I get from the 40k RPGs is directly proportional to how much the DM likes the Universe's Fluff and how much is he willing to let you get away with without forcing the fluff down your throat.

As well as if the DM likes the Tabletop more than the RPG. If they like the RPG more awesome. If they like the actual gameplay more watchout.

The thing about the Wargame is that everything is up for grabs rarity rarely factors in to anything and you have to spend a lot of time on tactics.

RPG's I don't want to have to deal too much on tactics. Yes, I like making plans to storm a building, but I don't want to have the DM knock my ideas down at every turn because my dice rolling wasn't good enough to come up with the idea in the first place.(Note: this happened to me in DnD a while a go)

This Website does it some what well imo:
http://www.fandible.com/category/actual-play/w40k/only-war/

Only problem is that their lengthy games make me want to play the game more than listen to whatever they are doing.

Slipperychicken
2013-03-24, 10:39 PM
Probably a good idea to point out how dangerous psychic powers are to anyone wanting to play a psyker - really hammer it home. Maybe work out the chance of summoning a daemon that's on every roll, make it clear that every power use carries that chance, regardless of what the power is.

I find it troubling that someone would play such a character without looking up the fumble tables. Especially when he has such a large chance to trigger them each time he uses his powers.

holywhippet
2013-03-25, 04:37 PM
I had one psyker I rolled up but never got to use (the campaign ended when the GM got tired of running games). I rolled extremely well on either intelligence or willpower (I forget which, it was in the 50s and meant I got to pick a lot of minor powers). The first thing I did was spend points to upgrade it even further (into the 60s). Thing was, my stat was so high I could theoretically activate certain minor powers without even needing to use the points from a power roll. I think the rules state that I'd always need to roll at least one die but I never got a ruling on it.

king.com
2013-03-25, 06:28 PM
I had one psyker I rolled up but never got to use (the campaign ended when the GM got tired of running games). I rolled extremely well on either intelligence or willpower (I forget which, it was in the 50s and meant I got to pick a lot of minor powers). The first thing I did was spend points to upgrade it even further (into the 60s). Thing was, my stat was so high I could theoretically activate certain minor powers without even needing to use the points from a power roll. I think the rules state that I'd always need to roll at least one die but I never got a ruling on it.

I believe you can activate without a roll but I get the feeling everyone just forces the roll anyway because thats kinda the point of psykers. It would be willpower you got high, thats the magic stat (kinda the reason a psyker has issues in the first place is they are a 1 stat class).

bluntpencil
2013-03-25, 06:38 PM
I believe you can activate without a roll but I get the feeling everyone just forces the roll anyway because thats kinda the point of psykers. It would be willpower you got high, thats the magic stat (kinda the reason a psyker has issues in the first place is they are a 1 stat class).

It looks like you can, in fact, roll without using any dice. At first glance, this isn't so good. Each Discipline, with Discipline Mastery has between 1 and 4 powers which could be automatically cast in this way, but they generally aren't too powerful.

The real trouble comes with invocation and a high Willpower, combined with Discipline Mastery.

I'm cool with weaker powers having no risk for more powerful psykers (they must be able to practise their gifts without too much risk, after all, or they would all be dead or irredeemably insane before any one psyker could become a Primaris Psyker, for example), but this may be too good.

LCP
2013-03-26, 07:46 AM
A bit of googling shows that this was FAQ'd by BI (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?376970-Dark-Heresy-Oh-poor-Psykers/page4&p=8405518#post8405518), but the link broke when the BI forums ceased to be. Looks like the correction didn't make it into FFG's errata.

For what it's worth, though, to me the parentheses following the sentence make it clear that the minimum number of dice you can roll when manifesting a power is 1, not 0:


They then make a Power Roll by rolling a number of dice up to their Psy Rating (typically 1-6)

If you run across any rules-lawyers who point out that 0 dice is "a number of dice", you can point out that whether that's a valid interpretation all comes down to whether you put the emphasis on "rolling a number of dice" or "rolling a number of dice".

Maugan Ra
2013-03-26, 07:58 AM
Also, if you decide to play Dark Heresy (which I recommend, as it can be rather fun) get to know and love the Fear rules. This isn't like other systems, where facing something scary imposes a slight penalty on your tests or maybe forces you to run away. Botching a Fear test in Dark Heresy tends to lead to your character vomiting uncontrollably and falling to the floor in a quivering mass. Usually just long enough for whatever caused it to completely murder you.

I think the most entertaining result my group had was in Dead Stars, where our Scum character botched a fear check when faced with a horde of demon-locusts that wanted to lay their eggs in his brain. He started hallucinating, and immediately attacked the closest target with the weapons to hand. Which, in his case, turned out to be a pair of fully-automatic assault shotguns loaded with Lathe Body-Blower rounds. The closest target happened to be an Inquisitor who was at point blank range. The rest of us were merely grateful that it wasn't one of us, and then promptly tried to think of ways to cover this up while our Guardsman subdued the raving criminal by virtue of biting his arms off.

Noedig
2013-03-26, 12:17 PM
I greatly appreciate the wealth of response you've all given me. I will investigate this system further. :smallsmile: