PDA

View Full Version : [D&D 3.5 Class substitution] Pure skill system



Xuldarinar
2013-03-18, 08:54 PM
Imagine a system for D&D in which there are no classes. Only skills. Humor me. There are kinks to work out of course, more things to address, ect. But.. this is what I got so far. Post your thoughts, advice, so on. If theres an ability you want added, say so, maybe advise a value and mechanic for it.

Base:
Hit Die: D4
Proficiency with simple weapons
No Armor Proficiencies
Poor Fort, Poor Ref, Poor Will
Poor BaB
14 + Int Mod skill points per level
Skills known: Pick any 6 to treat as known.


Hit Die: Increase by one step per 2 skill points sacrificed. Max D12
Armor proficiency: To learn a better armor type at start, sacrifice points as follows; ( light armor = 2, medium armor = 4, heavy armor = 6) (Shields 1, Tower Shields 2)
Saves: 2 skill points sacrificed to increase a poor to good
Base Attack Bonus: Sacrifice 2 to increase to average, 4 to increase to good.
Spellcasting: Sacrifice 4 to gain access to arcane spells, divine spells, manafesting, invocations or mysteries. Sacrifice an additional 2 to increase armor you may cast in by one step, up to heavy. You may sacrifice an additional 4 to add access to a second set.



Casting progression:
Caster stat: Cha, Int, Wis. Choose at creation.
Caster/manifester level = Spellcraft/Psicraft rank - 3
Spells known = Learn as wizard for prepared, or progress spells known as sorcerer for spontaneous, drawn from relevant list. Psionic users learn as psion, Mystery users learn as shadow casters, so on. You have access to abilities based on your relevant knowledge skill - 3, up to a maximum of your caster level.
Spells per day/power points/ect. = Same as above.
You may choose to delay the access to level 4, this cuts the initial cost in half but your caster level is 3 lower than it other wise would be.


Relevant Knowledge:
Arcane spells = Arcana
Divine spells = Religion or Nature (choose at 1st level)
Psionic powers = Psionics
Mysteries = The Planes
Invocations = The Planes


Sneak attacking:
to determine your sneak attack damage, treat your equivalent rogue level as follows: (Hide rank + Move Silently rank - 6)/2

Zman
2013-03-18, 09:01 PM
It's create a class... Im in favor of the idea, but not your implementation. I've actually been working on a DnD inspired RPG where there are no levels, merely "build" points which are spent on everything and the cost of further advancements increases ie opportunity cost.

Couple of major problems.

You can't even crrate any of the basic classes using this system, and there is little balance between selections.

For Instance, gaining a D12 costs 8 Skill Points, netting a good Fort Save another two, and full BAB another 4. Leaving us 0 Skill Points, no Proficiencies, and no useful abilities.

A Spontaneous Caster could cast in armor with a good Hit Dice, not balanced.

Xuldarinar
2013-03-18, 10:13 PM
It's create a class... Im in favor of the idea, but not your implementation. I've actually been working on a DnD inspired RPG where there are no levels, merely "build" points which are spent on everything and the cost of further advancements increases ie opportunity cost.

Couple of major problems.

You can't even crrate any of the basic classes using this system, and there is little balance between selections.

For Instance, gaining a D12 costs 8 Skill Points, netting a good Fort Save another two, and full BAB another 4. Leaving us 0 Skill Points, no Proficiencies, and no useful abilities.

A Spontaneous Caster could cast in armor with a good Hit Dice, not balanced.


Good point. Hmm.. well, I got a lot of kinks to work out. I'll go over it, see what I can do. If you have any advice, please say so. Maybe I can get this at least… sort of balanced.

Zman
2013-03-18, 10:34 PM
Good point. Hmm.. well, I got a lot of kinks to work out. I'll go over it, see what I can do. If you have any advice, please say so. Maybe I can get this at least… sort of balanced.

I'd start by drastically lowering the price of BAB, hd, and saves and greatly increasing the cost of Spellcasting.

I'd use points instead of skills, buying skills with points.

I'd also work at lowering the power of Spellcasting if possible.

Grod_The_Giant
2013-03-18, 10:38 PM
True20 by Green Ronin had some option rules along these lines, if I remember correctly...

invinible
2013-03-20, 12:14 PM
To me, we would need a tutorial area where each skill could be trained up to max level 3 and makes sure you know all the skills all characters should know.

Energy Drain should affect current level while Energy Damage affect max level with the later only really being used when players try to abuse the spirit of the game.

Current level for any skill should go up to level 511 while the max level for the same respective skill should go up to level 500. With the 300 - 350 level range being the Mary Sue range since having skills up that high should make typical adventures trivial.

Max level should be the furthest you earned a skill no matter how high you ever had it. Current level should be what is used to determine success of skill.

Max level is what current level of the respective skill tries to return to as long as draining and boosting of that skill isn't going on than.

Skills should have to follow the following rules:
1. Must not be big enough to be a sub-system.
2. Must be big enough for its actions to have a common theme no other skill does even if those actions require more than 1 skill to use.
3. Must be trainable.
4. Must not be a mother may I skill.
and 5. Must not assume that others are going to cooperate with your character using the skill even if requires others for your character to use the skill.

In other words I think all skills should be on the same lines as swimming.

I feel the ease of how to use the actions from the skills and the shortcuts they provide should be as follows:
Commonplace ones should be able to be able to be attempted as long as your character has access to the skill.
Easy ones should be able to be attempted as long as your character has the respective minimum require current level in spite of what the respective max level is.
Moderate ones should be able to be attempted as long as your character has the respective minimum max level in spite of what the respective current level is.
Hard ones should be able to be attempted as long as your character has both the minimum max level and current level.
Boss tier ones should only be given to major characters and than no more than one per character plus should never be considered a signature action.

And finally: I don't think and actions or shortcuts should be opened above level 500, rather, I think those levels should be used to help make the actions and shortcuts that are picked up at the end more likely to work.

Philemonite
2013-04-07, 10:02 AM
This is a nice idea, so here's what I was thinking:

Split skills in primary and secondary.

Primary skills are armor, weapons, spellcasting, saves, Hit Die, armored spellcasting, spontanious casting...
Each skill is divided in 3 tiers.
Every character starts with tier one in every skill.
When making a character you can reduce a tier 1 skill to tier 0 to get skill points to unlock tier 2 and 3.
Primary skills are set at character creation, and can not be changed later.
Splitting weapons in crushing, slashing, piercing and ranged and maybe splitting armor in martial and mystic should help the balance.

At each level you get skill points that can be used to buy secondary skills.
Instead of buying individual skills you will buy groups of skills.
Some skills can be put in multiple groups, to balance things out.

That's the basic idea, hope it is understandable.