what would you play? Gestalt combos

[magwaaf]

we mix 3.5 and pathfinder and it works fantastic.

my combo would be a warblade/factotum tho so i could do a little bit of everything and it would be utterly fantastic

what about you guys? what combos would you build? for power or for fun

also the setting is faerun

[Kane0]

For fun? Warlock/Rogue with an eldritch greatsword instead of an eldritch glaive.

Think of all those d6s!

[Kristinn]

I thought a bit about this a while back, and I thought it would be fun to play a Sorcadin, something like this:

Sorcerer 5 / Abjurant Champion 1+X //
Battle Dancer 1 / Paladin of Freedom 2 / Barbarian 2 / Cloistered Cleric 1 / Rouge X

This way you get full BAB, full Sorceror spellcasting, Cha mod to AC and saves, and a large hit die almost every level. With the Abjurant Champion boost to Mage Armor and Shield, along with Cha to AC, your Armor class will be insane at mid levels for a mage. You also have some healing with Lay on Hands, and Pounce and Improved Trip through the two levels of Barbarian for when you just want to beat something up.

Cleric 1 will give you nifty Domain powers/devotion feats (Time domain, Travel Devotion, Luck domain). Then you can also take the Divine Metamagic feat, and use it to persist Arcane buffs, on yourself or your friends. Or, maybe better, use it to Quicken spells for action economy. Lastly, Rouge skill points and Sneak attack might be fun, but not really important.

Unfortunately my gaming group doesn't want to do a Gestalt group :(

[Zman]

Battle Sorcerer/Favored Soul with a Cleric Dip for Turn Undead for DMM Persistent Spell. Also net some useful Domain Powers.

Makes a good Melee Gish. Follow up with some Abjurant Champion and maybe squeeze in Battle Caster somewhere to rock Mithril Fullplate.

[OverdrivePrime]

Ranger 2/Barbarian 2/Warblade 16 // Wu Jen 20: Everything I dream of playing, rolled into one face-wrecking package. :smallbiggrin:

[Greenish]

Duskblade//Feat Rogue. Fighter feats, casting, 8+int skills from a huge list.

Duskblade//Rogue/Wizard/Unseen Seer. Casting, skills, melee.

Ranger/Barbarian/Revenant Blade//Swordsage. TWF like few others.

Paladin/Samurai(OA)/Shiba Protector//Swordsage. Wisdom, wisdom, wisdom.

Warblade//Soulknife(PF). The weapon, and the skill to wield it.

Crusader//Bard. The leader.

Rogue//Incarnate. Skillmonkey see, skillmonkey do.

[Theprettiestorc]

...well, I guess I'm boring for sticking to archetypes. XD.

A Drunken Monk of the Sacred Mountain's Four Winds. With Snake-Style Combat, and the Tiger aspect of the Four Winds.

[Thunndarr]

I'm somewhat of a newbie to 3.5, but I did some research before starting my current campaign (the first D&D I've done in years) and was pointed toward factotum/wizard.

*I have no idea about how powerful this combo is in the grand scheme of things, but from a roleplay perspective and a game mechanics perspective, it has been a blast to play this guy.

Roleplay: Well, at level 1, he was a "Magical Theory" teacher at the local university. He had done some traveling, and was well versed in a variety of cultures and magical theories, though wasn't particularly skilled in magic himself. He was also somewhat of a know-it-all type and was generally very abrasive towards the other characters (which resulted in many hilarious shenanigans.)

Mechanics: Skill monkey + wizard=tons of options. Our monk/fighter does flurry of blows. Our ranger/sorcerer does multi-shot. My character has a "Big Book of Answers" (flavor text) to simulate the factotums broad generalized knowledge and skills. So, in game, there's a lot of "Wait a second, let me look this up. Ah, yes, basilisk, can kill with its gaze. Here's a picture of it. Don't look at it."

In any case, the factotum/wizard is good both in and out of combat, and I love the roleplay opportunities it presents as well.

[TypoNinja]

I was thinking a Warlock/Swifthunter might be a really fun support character, warlock debuffs, ranger skill points, trap finding from the scout, extra skirmish damage on every EB, tracking, enough skill points to grab plenty of skills for whatever strikes your fancy.

[Waker]

Power isn't much of a concern for me, I'd be more interested in combining classes that work together in a thematically pleasing sense.

Druid//Totemist- You are the embodiment of nature. You command storms, transform into a big, fierce animal and on top of that you wreathe yourself in the spirits of the most fearsome beasts the world has to offer.
Paladin of Freedom//Warlock-Devote yourself to one of the nicer chaotic deities like Elhonna or perhaps a Fairy Noble like Titania. You are an eldritch knight flying around hurling bolts of energy and smiting whomever displeases your patron. Alternatively you could instead choose a Paladin of Slaughter, worship Mab and lead the Wild Hunt...
Warblade//Incarnate- This combination in my opinion can help display many of the supernatural abilities a hero can display in various forms of fiction. He can wield a number of weapons with skill, fly, wreathe yourself in flame, shoot lightning and the fluff about incarnum could easily be rewritten to say that you are a reincarnated hero.

[Story]

How about something like

Factotum 1/Cloistered Cleric 1/Human Paragon 3/Dweomerkeeper 4/Mindbender 1/Incantrix 10//Wizard 3/Binder 1/Artificer 5/Factotum 10/Warblade 1

You could probably optimize the skills and saves a bit by shuffling everything around, but that's just minor details.

A gestalt is supposed to supplement your main class with passive abilities. In this case, Gestalt lets you take Human Paragon and Dweomercheater without losing levels, while dips in Artificer, Factotum, Binder and Warblade give you passive abilities (item crafting, cunning surge, ability damage healing, and autopassing saves respectively).



* I mostly made this for amusement, as noone would ever let you actually play this outside of one of those rare uberhigh OP games.

[Stormageddon]

Bard // Sorc
Bard // Fighter
Rogue // wizard
Barbarian // rogue

[Mithril Leaf]

On one side a nice Barbarian build, possible Frenzied Berserker or something of that nature. On the other, were-Desmodu Guard Bat into warshaper into Black Blood Hunter.

[Raimun]

Cleric 20//Druid 20
or
Cleric X/Contemplative X//Druid 20
or
Cleric X/Contemplative Y/Bone Knight Z//Druid 20
or
Cleric X/Contemplative Y/Ruby Knight Vindicator Z//Druid 20

Behold! The CaDzilla! The master of Divine magic.

[chaos_redefined]

Last time I played gestalt, I went Ranger 5/Master of Many Forms // Swordsage.

The diamond mind counters allowed me to troll enemy spells with my concentration. As a troll, because there's no better way to troll them.

[Jon_Dahl]

Fighter/Rogue would be my choice.

[Gnorman]

Generally, I find combining the factotum or the warblade with either the wizard or psion to be a very effective combination.

I played a warforged shaper/warblade to great effect in one game. Diamond Mind synergized extremely well with high Concentration, and Share Pain + Vigor was just gravy. The character was an unstoppable juggernaut of pain and ectoplasm.

In core, a Wizard // Ranger is surprisingly effective, resulting in a very solid chassis.

[Silvanoshei]

I'd play a Monk/Samurai, then go shoot myself. :smallconfused:

[Silva Stormrage]

Lets see, for a solo game I always have wanted to try a Spell To Power Erudite/Sha'ir/Theuruge Classes//Vampire +Vampire Lord. Goal is to collect every spell in the world. Would be too strong to use in any non super high op setting though.

In a group game, Dread Necromancer 20//Paladin of Slaughter 2/Hexblade/3/Horned Harbinger 10/ XXX 5

Lets you have a ludicrously high undead army at your command (At level 20 it is (10 + Charisma modifier) * (20 + Charisma) Total HD (Double if you have an item). And 100 HD of rebuked undead.

Take Landlord and build the ultimate crypt!

[Krazzman]

Cloistered Cleric/Prestige Paladin/XXX//Crusader

With Knowledge and Travel Devotion... on this note where does it is written that you sacrifice the domain (and spells) for the devotion feat? Or is this a rule somewhere to trade the Domain for it?

[Amphetryon]

Crusader//Dread Necromancer: Fear my melee. No, really! FEAR is my melee.

or

Psychic Warrior//Wilder: Yo dawg, I heard you liked psionic archers.

or

Totemist//Binder: I didn't know a tentacle could do that. . . .

[Soranar]

for sheer power

spell to power erudite//factotum

for fun

glaivelock//Paladin of tyranny (with travel devotion to move around)

[Shred-Bot]

Druid/Monk could be a fun combo... monk becomes basically SAD due to wildshape, flurry of blows becomes actually useful (assuming I read the alternate form rules correctly and you can actually use it), wis increases AC and spellcasting, and... you can be a kung-fu panda!

(Or I guess unarmed swordsage if you want better crunch, but making the monk useful is always fun)

[Jigokuro]

Malconvoker//DFI bard, Summon powerful minions, then make them even more powerful

Best flavor though, that I'll do that the first opportunity I have to gestalt (which is never:smallfrown:): Take a warforged, give it the multiheaded (2) template (validity arguable, but many DMs could be talked into it at least) then Incarnate Construct it. You get a fairly powerful 2RHD 0LA humanoid... with 2 heads. Then go barbarian//wizard(or archivist). Play it that each head is separate and the barb head is still illiterate, etc.

[Tragak]

Rogue/Ranger, taking Favored Enemies that are normally immune to sneak attacks.

[Zero grim]

How about something like

Warlock 20//Evolved+++++++++++Vampire

Does this work, never played a gestalt character, always wondered how templates interact with it.

For a more serious setting

wizard//healer

at level 20 in two standard action you can have someone from being dead to being fully functional at full hit points, and for everything else there's wish-gate.

[Fouredged Sword]

Dread necromancer // bard / dirge singer.

Whopa Hissssssssssssssssssssss.

[mangosta71]

For mobility, a thri-kreen psion (nomad) going into elocater on one side, with the warblade variant that trades medium armor proficiency for access to Shadow Hand maneuvers on the other (focusing primarily on Tiger Claw).

As an alternative, half-giant unarmed swordsage/scout//psychic warrior.

If you want a full caster, Batman wizard on one side with psion (kineticist) on the other for blasting. Or cleric/psychic warrior for full casting + face-smashing. Plus the mental image of a black, tentacled horror emblazoned with holy symbols of Heironeous is hilarious.

Something else that just came to mind - warblade/soulknife. Not even close to optimal - the two don't complement each other's weaknesses at all - but could be amusing.

You may have noticed the "I like psionics" theme here. Mixing them with ToB classes may not be completely optimal, but the combos tend to be competitively powerful (except against heavy optimizers) AND fun. I also dislike 1- and 2-level dips from a stylistic point of view.

[Icewraith]

I had some convoluted ranger/rogue/scout/swashbuckler/lion totem barb 1 build that had almost full favored enemy, sneak attack, skirmish, and I don't even remember what else at later levels. Basically I tried to grab as many of the daring outlaw type feats as possible and stack them together on a gestalt chassis, then two-weapon fight. Also, I had a ton of alternate class features that ended up synergizing pretty well.

At some point before level 10-11 the character would ideally charge into a flanking position and be able to deal skirmish+sneak attack damage on a two-weapon full attack (and deal half precision damage to normally crit immune targets when flanking due to careful ACF and favored enemy selection).

The ridiculous base movement rate the character had (I even picked up the swift trait on a whisper gnome) meant even against a solo opponent with reach I would reliably be able to get a charge off every other round.

I only got to run it in one session, before the build really came together, but it was a ton of fun even so. You'd get far more power with far less effort with an arcane caster, but in the end, once you get past the complicated nonsense that was the level progression and feat tree, you have the satisfaction of playing a two-weapon fighter that's actually effective, a rogue with the HP and BAB to melee, reliable precision damage, and you still have a ton of skill points to be tricksy both in and out of combat.

I've also had a hankering to play a bard/warblade recently, although I've considered warblade/factotum. Both characters never run out of things to do, in combat or out.

Edit: I did a Goliath int-monk/warblade that was basically as close as I could get to Zasalamel from the later Soul Calibur games, complete with gigantic scythe and ridiculous tripping. At high levels it would have had something like 15 attacks off a time stands still+raging mongoose+flurry+ scythe/unarmed strike full attack routine, 11 or so of them at highest attack bonus - 2.

[Techwarrior]

I always wanted to play a Barbarian/Champion of Gwynnharf//Swordsage with the Serenity feat. The fluff and the crunch line up so well.

[Slipperychicken]

[PF]

Pyromaniac Gnome Arcane Bomber Wizard//Grenadier Alchemist.

Massive bomb damage (1d6/level + 1d6 + Int). Use Gnome favored class for extra bombs. Feat selection would look like: Point-Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Arcane Strike (I think it applies to bombs RAW), Extra Bombs. Spells provide non-damage CC and utility options.

Also PF:
Pyro Gnome Wizard (Admixture Evoker)//Crossblooded Wildblooded (Primal [Fire]/Orc) Sorcerer

Ludicrous spell damage (+2 per dice, extra CL from Pyro and others, +1/2 level from Evocation), and Versatile Evocation changes damage type, but not the descriptor, letting me switch the damage type to [fire/acid/cold/electricity] while still keeping all the bonuses from fire-specialization. Feats into Mage's Tattoo, metamagics, and Spell Penetration. Buy metamagic rods of empower spell for true ridiculousness, and boost CL wherever possible. Favored class bonus goes into using Admixture more times per day.

And with Evoker Wizard, I'm not even worried about Crossblooded crippling the Sorc spells known progression :smallbiggrin: If 3.5 material is allowed, I pick up Orb spells and stop caring about saves and SR (which the boosted CL and Spell Penetration were hopefully taking care of anyway). In the exceedingly rare event that something's immune to my trick, I grudgingly cast the old control/buff/routine.

[Deepbluediver]

Are there any limits on the Gestalting? I know that in 3.5 a lot of the prestige classes are sub-optimal, because the entry requirements are such a pain, but when you Gestalt you can pick up more skills and advance other dual aspects (BAB, spells, multi-type casting, etc) all at the same time.
Pathfinder also tweaks some of the PrCs, but a lot are still either bland, overly focused, or mechanically not worth it for anything more than a dip.


One combination that I've always wanted to try, though, is to start with Paladin/Bard and use it to access Mystic Theurge, both for gits and shiggles and because it helps keep the Melee-class' more moderate spellcasting up to par. Plus I have an soft spot for traditional low-men on the totem pole of class design.
But in a normal game, this level of sub-optimization would probably be pushing poorly-built fighter levels (I'd still be beating monk if only because of full BAB). Gestalting though, opens up otherwise difficult possibilities...


Now I just need something to pair with the MT beyond regular old Pally to keep my BAB up. Any thoughts?

[ddude987]

scout 10/Deepwood Sniper 10//Ranger 10/Order of the Bow Initiate (3.0 version) 10
I'm sure I could have minmaxed this more but I am currently playing this in a 3.5 campaign and it is awesome. I added the dark template (with buyoff) Also my DM made a feat that works exactly like powerattack but at range.

[Gazzien]

scout 10/Deepwood Sniper 10//Ranger 10/Order of the Bow Initiate (3.0 version) 10
I'm sure I could have minmaxed this more but I am currently playing this in a 3.5 campaign and it is awesome. I added the dark template (with buyoff) Also my DM made a feat that works exactly like powerattack but at range.

Except that you can't have a prestige class on both sides of the Gestalt at the same time.

[ddude987]

Except that you can't have a prestige class on both sides of the Gestalt at the same time.

Oh... I guess were doing more of a homebrewed gestalt then... oops

[Story]

You also can't use Dual Progression Prcs like Mystic Theurge at all.

[Deepbluediver]

Except that you can't have a prestige class on both sides of the Gestalt at the same time.


You also can't use Dual Progression Prcs like Mystic Theurge at all.

What is the source for those rules? Are they Pathfinder-exclusive? I didn't see anything like that on the 3.5 SRD in the PrC Section, and I seem to be having trouble with the PF SRD atm. A link would be helpful.

[Karnith]

What is the source for those rules? Are they Pathfinder-exclusive? I didn't see anything like that on the 3.5 SRD in the PrC Section, and I seem to be having trouble with the PF SRD atm. A link would be helpful.
From the 3.5 SRD, under the Gestalt Characters section (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/gestaltCharacters.htm):
A gestalt character can’t combine two prestige classes at any level, although it’s okay to combine a prestige class and a regular class. Prestige classes that are essentially class combinations-such as the arcane trickster, mystic theurge, and eldritch knight-should be prohibited if you’re using gestalt classes, because they unduly complicate the game balance of what’s already a high-powered variant. Because it’s possible for gestalt characters to qualify for prestige classes earlier than normal, the game master is entirely justified in toughening the prerequisites of a prestige class so it’s available only after 5th level, even for gestalt characters.
(Emphasis mine)

[FireGriver]

Here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/gestaltCharacters.htm#buildingAGestaltCharacter) you can find, under Class Features, the restrictions about picking two prestige classes at the same time and with classes that are class combinations.

On topic, I would play a gish on stereoids. I was thinking on something like Paladin 2/Monk 1/ Cleric 17//Sorcerer 4/Geomancer 10/Abjurant Champion 5/Anything 1 (maybe Barbarian for pounce variant)
Of course the classes would be taken in the most beneficial order, that was just the list.

I like the idea of 'everythin to CHA', and as my group always plays with SRD (without psions) + PHB II + all Completes, that's the best 'all to CHA' that I can think of. Plus dual 9's and full BAB (with persisted Divine Power), it's all I ever wanted in a character chasis. :P

EDIT: swordsage'd... by a lot. :P

[Deepbluediver]

From the 3.5 SRD, under the Gestalt Characters section (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/gestaltCharacters.htm):
(Emphasis mine)


Here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/gestaltCharacters.htm#buildingAGestaltCharacter) you can find, under Class Features, the restrictions about picking two prestige classes at the same time and with classes that are class combinations.

Ah ok, thank you.

When I was looking at that page I just scrolled down to the section labeled "Prestige Classes":
Prestige Classes
The high-powered nature of the gestalt character variant gives you more room to create unique prestige classes. First, you can create narrowly specialized prestige classes, and they’ll still be compelling choices for PCs because the characters can simultaneously advance in a regular class while taking levels in the prestige class. Players won’t feel shoehorned into a very specific prestige class if they have another class they’re also advancing in. Second, you can create truly outrageous prestige classes-but add the additional cost that such classes take up both class choices for gestalt characters. For example, a prestige class that offered a d12 Hit Die, +1/level base attack bonus, two good saves, full spellcasting, and a host of class features would be completely unbalanced in a standard game. But if it takes up both “class slots” for a gestalt characters, it’s no more powerful than taking a level in the barbarian/wizard gestalt.
and assumed all related rules would be there. Silly me. :smallsigh:

I will point out that since this is a variable alteration anyway though, the SRD states explicitly that while double PrCing is banned, PrCs that are two classes in one (a dubious distinction, I think) merely gets a "should"; which to my mind leaves it up to the DM in the end.
Or at the very least I can just take levels in MT and forgo the gestalting for a bit, since we've already established I don't need to be tier 1 to have fun :P

[Callin]

From the 3.5 SRD, under the Gestalt Characters section (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/gestaltCharacters.htm):
(Emphasis mine)

the emphasis should have been on the word SHOULD. That means its suggest but not against the rules unless the DM makes it so.

[BHarkonnen]

Druid 20//Cloistered Cleric 1/ Binder 2/ Anima Cleric 10 (modified anima mage)/Tenebrous Apostate 5/KoSS 2 (Tenebrous)

This build (as long as you allow theurge classes, which under Gestalt rules aren't banned, but discouraged) allows for amazing versatility as well as serious powering of devotion feats.

If you don't go for theurge, Druid 20//Binder15/KoSS 5 is also very versatile.

The combo of druid and binder lets you do druid wildshape stuff and tack on the supernatural abilities of a binder. For instance, Malphas + Savnock being bound allows you to be a bear that can switch places with Malpha's bird scout using Savnock's Move Ally every round.

[RFLS]

Scout 4/Ranger 16//Psychic Warrior 20, with the Swift Hunter feat. Probably not overly-powerful, but it'd never run out of shenanigans.

Binder 20//Warlock 20, because really, you can never have too much in the way of Abyssal taint on your soul.

Druid 20//Totemist 20, because meh, why not? I think that'd been mentioned already, though.

Factotum 20//Psion 20, with the Psion focus on moving stuff around. Be the ultimate thief. Maybe dip Chameleon with your Factotum side.

And my favorite: Sorcerer X/SCM /Shadowcrafter X/Sorcerer +//Paladin. The RP would just be hilarious.

[Story]

Good point. For some reason I thought it was an outright prohibition, rather than a suggestion.

That makes Ultimate Magus a great choice because you can get its abilities and CL increases while filling in the levels you'd normally lose with another Wizard progressing class.




Binder 20//Warlock 20, because really, you can never have too much in the way of Abyssal taint on your soul.


Vestiges don't have anything to do with the Abyss (under standard fluff). No taint or moral issues there.

[Gnorman]

the emphasis should have been on the word SHOULD. That means its suggest but not against the rules unless the DM makes it so.

Disagreed. "Should," as a derivative of "shall," generally indicates mandatory language.

There is some room to wiggle, but the presumption by RAW is that they are against the rules. The DM could overturn that.

[RFLS]

Vestiges don't have anything to do with the Abyss (under standard fluff). No taint or moral issues there.

Yeah, true. I guess it's more a matter of perception of what you are from other people. You've consorted with devils (warlock), you're consorting with other, strange things (vestiges).... Idk. They fit really well in my head, but when I try to explain it it sounds dumb.

[Story]

Well it's only an issue with Cleric and Paladin types. Ordinary people don't know the difference between any type of magic. Wizards will look down on you as not doing proper magic but they probably won't shun you.

[Andreaz]

Oracle//Hexblade (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=218093)
Aegis // Any int-based caster, particularly magus and psion. (runesmiths may want to scribe their spells somewhere else)
Cleric // Psychic Warrior

[Callin]

The Wording.

Prestige classes that are essentially class combinations-such as the arcane trickster, mystic theurge, and eldritch knight-should be prohibited if you’re using gestalt classes, because they unduly complicate the game balance of what’s already a high-powered variant.

Now lets take out the examples since its not really needed.

Prestige classes that are essentially class combinations should be prohibited if you’re using gestalt classes, because they unduly complicate the game balance of what’s already a high-powered variant.


Absolutely nowhere does it say it is prohibited. Only that it is suggested that they not be allowed because they unbalance an already high-powered variant.

[Fouredged Sword]

Duskblade 20 // bard 20
Be redmage from 8 bit theater

[Greenish]

Ah ok, thank you.

When I was looking at that page I just scrolled down to the section labeled "Prestige Classes" <snip> and assumed all related rules would be there. Silly me. :smallsigh:There's big text saying "Core Rules" over that section of SRD, and then equally big text saying "Variant Rules" over, well, variant rules.

Now, if you were looking for variant rules, which place would you check? :smallamused:

[Flame of Anor]

This way you get full BAB, full Sorceror spellcasting, Cha mod to AC and saves, and a large hit die almost every level. With the Abjurant Champion boost to Mage Armor and Shield

The Abjurant Champion only boosts Shield, not Mage Armor.

[Karnith]

The Abjurant Champion only boosts Shield, not Mage Armor.
Despite whatever filthy lies Complete Mage tries to throw at you.

[Gnorman]

Absolutely nowhere does it say it is prohibited. Only that it is suggested that they not be allowed because they unbalance an already high-powered variant.

You read "should be prohibited" as optional. I read "should be prohibited" as a directive.

[Callin]

Then I agree to disagree :smallsmile:

[Demons_eye]

I always wanted to play a Archivist1/Human Paragon3/Archivist 16//Incarnate 7/Necrocarnate 13

Using the good adaptation I wanted to play a character that was at the pinnacle of research into souls. His goal would be to be able to cleanse the souls of evil beings so that good would win in the end.

[Deepbluediver]

You read "should be prohibited" as optional. I read "should be prohibited" as a directive.

My problem is that I take issue with their reasoning: "Mystic theurge and other similar PrC's are already 2 classes in one".
Except that they tend to stop advancing most of the major non-spell features of both lead-in classes, and don't benefit from the best of HD/Saves/Skill/etc feature.

Plus, if balance is your concern then there are easier ways to break the game or make really odd characters. For example, it would be perfectly legal, as far as I can tell, to keep advancing something like a gestaled sorcerer or wizard at the same time as you took a spellcasting PrC, boosting your effective "spells per day" to that of a higher HD character.

[Propagandalf]

Summoner (Synthetist) // Monk (Ki Mystic & Qinggong) PF&PF

Psion (Generalist) // Warblade PF&3.5

Never've got the chance to play any gestalt games though. :smallannoyed:

[mangosta71]

In every other instance I've ever heard of, "should be prohibited" is a strong recommendation rather than an outright directive. If it was intended to be set in stone, the wording would be different.

[Story]

Plus, if balance is your concern then there are easier ways to break the game or make really odd characters. For example, it would be perfectly legal, as far as I can tell, to keep advancing something like a gestaled sorcerer or wizard at the same time as you took a spellcasting PrC, boosting your effective "spells per day" to that of a higher HD character.

The gain in spellcasting from each class won't overlap. But you could progress Wizard through gestalt during the dead levels of Ultimate Magus and still get the CL increase (since that's a separate class feature) for instance.

Anyway, you don't even need Gestalt to break the game. My Dweomerkeeper/Incantrix suggestion would be only marginally less powerful without it, and there are plenty of other broken Prcs and combos out there.

[mangosta71]

TAnyway, you don't even need Gestalt to break the game.
*cough*Wizard*cough*Cleric*cough*Druid*cough*

[Icewraith]

Right, but compare that to Wizard/Archivist into Mystic Theurge/Factotum back to Wizard/Archivist.

You have arcane and divine level 9s and ten levels of factotum unpredictability.

[Flame of Anor]

Right, but compare that to Wizard/Archivist into Mystic Theurge/Factotum back to Wizard/Archivist.

You have arcane and divine level 9s and ten levels of factotum unpredictability.

Can't gestalt Mystic Theurge.

[Icewraith]

That's what the discussion about.... it's just a very strong suggestion instead of a hard and fast "no," and my point is if you have something like the aforementioned build, even in a gestalt game your DM is probably going to have a hard time challenging you.

[Story]

I'd still rather have a non gestalt Dweomerkeeper than an MT gestalt.

[Mcdt2]

A weird idea kicking around my head: Changeling Factotum/Chameleon//(Urban?)Wildshape Ranger/Master of Many Forms/Warshaper. Totally unpredictable character, never exactly the same each day, and capable of being anyone or anything. It's the perfect spy.

Also considered Warmage//Incarnate/Necrocarnate (maybe just a dip in necro). Then I could be Jade Curtiss :smallbiggrin:. Probably not very effective, but stylish.

[Lesser Naboo]

Swordsage//Warblade All good saves, full BAB, 6+int skill points per level, d10 hit dice, and more maneuvers than you can count. Little MAD, but not too bad.

Swordsage/Cleric Good wisdom synergy.

[Eugenides]

I did a Druid//Barbarian in a campaign a bit ago. It was a low-op campaign, but super fun.

Raging Dire Gorilla with a greataxe in each hand. Yup. Not the most practical, but really fun to play.

[Andreaz]

In gestalt Geomancer goes from weak to HAX!11!1!!!1one
Wizard/Geomancer // Cleric!

[Greenish]

In gestalt Geomancer goes from weak to HAX!11!1!!!1one
Wizard/Geomancer // Cleric!Geomancer is fun enough (who doesn't want bushy green eyebrows), but my favourite use is with Southern Magician for single class entry on Spirit Shaman, to key their save DCs to their primary casting stat, Wisdom.

[Deepbluediver]

In gestalt Geomancer goes from weak to HAX!11!1!!!1one
Wizard/Geomancer // Cleric!

People like to go on and on about their Clericzilla's, but I've always thought that the most broken combo (from core anyway) would be Druid/Wizard.

Unless I'm mistaken (a distinct possiblity) or there's been eratta on it, I don't think the Natural Spell feat specifies that the spells it's used with need to be Druid spells. So by a strict interpretation, it seems like I could take the feat, then cast Wizard spells as a bear/rhino/wolf/whatever, thereby gaining all the passive physical defensives or melee capability without needing to worry about weapons and armor, which can otherwise interfere with arcane spellcasting or chew up additional funds. :smallwink:

[Crake]

I'd say a ranger//psion

D10 HD, 6+int skillpoints (probably go with the trapfinder variant), all good saves, psion manifesting, ranger abilities, no need to worry about arcane spell failure. Sounds pretty fun imo

[Eman Resu]

I'd say a ranger//psion

D10 HD, 6+int skillpoints (probably go with the trapfinder variant), all good saves, psion manifesting, ranger abilities, no need to worry about arcane spell failure. Sounds pretty fun imo


Illithid Slayer prestige class fits perfect with the above in that it combines psionic and ranger skills...you could always go mystic route w/ ranger or Erudite w/ Psion,

just sayin

[Eman Resu]

Gestalt for power/flavor, I have 2 favorite prestige classes, Swiftblade & Elocater. Always wanted to have a swift blade that also scorns earth...Maybe enter via stp Erudite?

[Eman Resu]

whats your thought on a rogue or scout / Druid, a charging pouncing tiger getting SA damage to all 5 attacks, things could get ugly very quick!

[Pesimismrocks]

I played a Blooded Lolth-Touched Feral Multiheaded Mineral Draconic Winged Warforged once. It was a gestalt campaign where LA took up half the gestalt. He was Dragonfire Adept 9/ Swordsage 2/ Deepwarden 2(allowed by DM). He was the tank with 53 AC, 6 AoOs, At least 30 in all saves and could not fail the saves on the role if a 1. It's pretty high OP for a low magic gestalt build. He had a helm of alignment change on him givin to him by a cleric. Being as low int and wis as he was he started a religion round the guy which clearly didn't make him the cleric's favourite person. He would body guard the apprentice ( Actual PC Cloistered Cleric, Psion)

Also a Scout Druid with pounce would be very powerful. Wildshape into an elephant, charge at huge speeds and make a full attack. Can't see where the pounce would be from except being a catfolk

[Autopsibiofeeder]

While everyone reacts to gestalt builds with a mystic theurge in it (not entering the discussion on how to read that rule, or suggestion), people often let classes like slayer and abjurant champion slide. Thing is, if you exclude theurging, by the same rule these 'super-gishes' are also forbidden.

[Story]

Why? What does Abjurant Champion get you except some minor buffs to abjuration? It's not like it's a dual progression class.

[Eman Resu]

Why? What does Abjurant Champion get you except some minor buffs to abjuration? It's not like it's a dual progression class.


luminous armor BoED
in the hands of a AChamp should prove sweet

[Techwarrior]

Why? What does Abjurant Champion get you except some minor buffs to abjuration? It's not like it's a dual progression class.

Fighter sir. It gestalts Full Caster with Full BAB and d10s, and better class features than Wizard OR Fighter. If you don't think thats important to a gish you need to go actually play one.

[Muktidata]

Lets see, for a solo game I always have wanted to try a Spell To Power Erudite/Sha'ir/Theuruge Classes//Vampire +Vampire Lord. Goal is to collect every spell in the world. Would be too strong to use in any non super high op setting though.

In a group game, Dread Necromancer 20//Paladin of Slaughter 2/Hexblade/3/Horned Harbinger 10/ XXX 5

Lets you have a ludicrously high undead army at your command (At level 20 it is (10 + Charisma modifier) * (20 + Charisma) Total HD (Double if you have an item). And 100 HD of rebuked undead.

Take Landlord and build the ultimate crypt!

Blackguard 3/Crusader 2 for your missing levels.