Hexblade = Arcane Paladin

[AppleVsOrange]

So, I will be starting a new game soon, and I decided to go against my normal proclivity and play the tank, as I usually play the blaster caster. I took up complete warrior and saw the Hexblade and I thought, "that looks cool. Kind of like a fighter sorcerer." It was inside my comfort zone, and I wanted to play one.

But as I began looking at it, it was more than obvious that for the concept, the class was seriously underpowered. I went online and began searching for answers. There I found lots of people who agreed, even the creator of the book, who had suggestions for errata to it.

And then it hit me. The class is broken because its not really a class at all...
It's a paladin variant gone astray. So I sat down, and I looked at it, and I figured, why not mirror it after the paladin, just change the abilities a little? So here we have it. Take a look and tell me if it is broken.

Class Features:
All of the following are class features of the Hexblade.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Hexblades are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, with all types of armor (heavy, medium, and light), and with shields (except tower shields). The somatic components for hexblade spells are minimal, therefore she ignores arcane spell failure chance when wearing armor or using shields (besides tower shields). This mirrors the paladin's proficiencies.

Detect Magic(Sp): At will, a Hexblade can use detect magic as the spell.variant of the detect evil ability. Might be a little much for an at will kinda thing, though. Thoughts?

Hexblade’s Curse (Su): Once per day, as a free action, a hexblade can unleash a curse upon a foe. The target must be visible to the hexblade and within 60 feet. The target of a hexblade’s curse takes a penalty equal to her Charisma Modifier on attacks, saves, ability checks, skill checks, and weapon damage rolls for 1 hour thereafter. A successful Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 hexblade’s class level + hexblade’s Cha modifier) negates the effect. At 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th levels, the hexblade gains an additional use of this curse, with a maximum of 5/Day at level 20. Same mechanics as the book, but I changed the penalty to a static number dependent on the ability score. It does not, however, change with level, so if you think there is a better way to appropriate the penalty, be my guest. Oh, and, obviously this mirrors the smite evil ability in mechanics.

Arcane Resistance (Su): At 2nd level, a hexblade gains a bonus equal to his Charisma bonus (minimum +1) on all saving throws. This is mirroring the divine grace ability.

Channel Ether (Su): Beginning at 2nd level, a hexblade with a Charisma score of 12 or higher can magically inflict wounds wounds through her weapon. She is able to channel this energy through her melee attacks, dealing untyped magical damage that overcomes resistances and damage reduction. This damage cannot be avoided if the attack is successful. Each day she can channel a total number of hit points of damage equal to her hexblade level × her Charisma bonus. For example, a 7th-level hexblade with a 16 Charisma (+3 bonus) can channel 21 points of damage per day. A hexblade may choose to divide her damage among multiple attacks, and she may not use more than half of her daily allotment in one attack. Using channel ether is an immediate action and can be used after the attack roll has been declared successful. this ability is supposed to be a mimic of the lay on hands ability, but I would like feedback on whether this A. Makes sense and B. is feasible.

Accursed Sanity(Su): Beginning at 3rd level, a hexblade is immune to mind-affecting effects (magical or otherwise). Each ally within 10 feet of her gains a +4 morale bonus on saving throws against mind-affecting effects. This ability functions while the hexblade is conscious, but not if she is unconscious or dead.This ones a little tricky, however. This ability accounts for two abilities on the paladin list. This is to balance both divine health and aura of courage. I thought that mind-affecting was a much broader spectrum of effects than fear. But now I'm not so sure.

Mystic Suppression (Su): Beginning at level 4, the hexblade begins to understand the subtle nature of what holds magic together and, more importantly, how to unravel it. As a standard action, the hexblade may attempt to suppress one magical effect within 60 feet that she is already aware of. The hexblade may make a caster level check, to which she may add her Charisma Modifier (d20 + 1/2 hexblade level rounded down + Charisma Modifier). If this check meets or exceeds the spell's DC (11 + Caster Level of the spellcaster who cast the spell), the effect is suppressed for 1 minute, as if it had entered an anti magic field. The hexblade must already be aware of the magical effect in order to target it with this ability. This ability must be targeted to a specific spell effect, and cannot be used otherwise. The duration of the effect is paused when suppressed and resumes when the 1 minute duration has passed. A Hexblade may use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 plus her Charisma Modifier. A failed attempt still counts against her daily limit of uses of mystic suppression. This is a suitable ability to replace turning undead, I think. It holds thematic value, and it would be about a similar power level, IMHO. Same times per day.

Spells: Beginning at 4th level, a hexblade gains the ability to cast a small number of arcane spells, which are drawn from the hexblade spell list. He can cast any spell he knows without preparing it ahead of time, just as a sorcerer can (see page 54 of the Player’s Handbook). To learn or cast a spell, a hexblade must have a Charisma score equal to at least 10 + the spell level (Cha 11 for 1st-level spells, Cha 12 for 2nd-level spells, and so forth). The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a hexblade’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the hexblade’s Cha modifier. Like other spellcasters, a hexblade can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on The Hexblade table. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Charisma score (see Table 1–1: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Spells, page 8 of the Player’s Handbook). When the table indicates that the hexblade gets 0 spells per day of a given spell level (for instance, 1st-level spells for a 4th-level hexblade), he gains only the bonus spells he would be entitled to based on his Charisma score for that spell level. The hexblade’s selection of spells is extremely limited. A hexblade begins play knowing no spells, but gains one or more new spells at certain levels, as indicated on the table. (Unlike spells per day, his Charisma score does not affect the number of spells a hexblade knows; the numbers on the table are fixed.) Upon reaching 12th level, and at every third hexblade level after that (15th and 18th), a hexblade can choose to learn a new spell in place of one he already knows. In effect, the hexblade “loses” the old hexblade spell in exchange for the new one. The new spell’s level must be the same as that of the spell being exchanged, and it must be at least two levels lower than the highest-level hexblade spell the hexblade can cast. For instance, upon reaching 12th level, a hexblade could trade in a single 1st- level spell (two spell levels below the highest-level hexblade spell he can cast, which is 3rd) for a different 1st-level spell. At 15th level, he could trade in a single 1st-level or 2nd-level spell (since he now can cast 4th-level hexblade spells) for a different spell of the same level. A hexblade may swap only a single spell at any given level, and must choose whether or not to swap the spell at the same time that he gains new spells for that level. Through third level, a hexblade has no caster level. At 4th level and higher, his caster level is one-half his hexblade level. Spells were not touched. I like the magic of this class. And it mirrors the paladin inherently.

Dark Companion: At 5th level, you form into existence a being composed entirely of shadows. This being can take the shape of any tiny, small, or medium animal, and is spun from the darkness of the night. Doing so takes 24 hours and uses up resources that cost 100gp. Once created, your dark companion stands with you in battle, hindering your opponents.
Any enemy adjacent to your dark companion takes a -2 penalty on its saves and to its AC. Your companion's speed is equal to yours (including all modes of movement you possess) and it acts during your turn each round. It follows your mental commands perfectly - in effect, it is an extension of your will.
Your dark companion has no real substance, and thus can't attack or otherwise affect other creatures or objects. It occupies a 5-foot space. Even though any creature can enter your dark companion's 5-foot space without restriction, it must occupy its own space in order to have any effect on enemies. It is immune to any damage or effects that might harm creatures, though it can be dispelled or suppressed just like a spell effect. Your dark companion is treated as a spell whose level is equal to 1/4 your hexblade level. If it is dispelled, it reforms at your side 24 hours later.
A dark companion can't create flanking situations, nor does it provoke attacks of opportunity from movement, because enemies automatically recognize it as an illusion. If it ends its turn more than 120 feet from you, or if you ever lose line of effect to it, it instantly reappears adjacent to you. this is actually from PHBII. I thought it suited the class better than a familiar. Familiars are squishy, even with half of a d10 for HP. This of course mirrors the mount.

Vengeful Dissolution (Su): Beginning at 6th level, a hexblade may choose to dispel and absorb the energy of a spell effect she has suppressed with her Mystic Suppression ability. The effect is treated as being effectively dispelled, as if by dispel magic, instead of being merely suppressed, as if by an anti-magic field. In addition, the hexblade can then absorb the unraveled magical energies, and subsequently use them to power her own spells. The hexblade may cast a number of spells whose spell levels add up to the amount of spell levels absorbed through her vengeful dissolution ability. She must use the absorbed spell levels within one hour per hexblade level, or they disappear. She may choose to apply this ability to a Mystic Suppression attempt, but the vengeful dissolution use does not count against her weekly limit if the caster level check is unsuccessful, however the mystic suppression still counts against her daily total. At 6th level, a hexblade may us this ability once per week, gaining one weekly use per three levels after 6th, with a maximum of 5/Week at 18th level. I used this to replace the remove disease ability, and also a little bit from the divine health. Thoughts?

The Hexblade keeps full BAB, and has a good will save still, because the pally has a full fort, the ranger has a full ref, so why not round out the trio? :smallbiggrin::smallbiggrin:

Everything else in CoW is the same. I just retooled the big stuff. What do you think?

[Xuldarinar]

This actually looks rather interesting. Normally when Arcane paladin comes to mind, I think of the things I can do to make a duskblade qualify for prestige paladin. Which, if your interested:
Earliest entry without multi-classing.
Race: Human
Class: Duskblade 9
Flaws: Atleast 1 (Any)

Overall effective dusk blade level; 15

Feats: Necromantic Bloodline [DMC], Arcane Disciple (Good)[CD], Mounted Combat [PHB 1], Southern Magician[FR-RoF], Kin Mastery[DMC]

Why?: Kin mastery grants turning/rebuking towards the bloodline you used to qualify for it, in this case undead (Special: Ability to turn undead). Arcane disciple can grant us the required spell (Ability to cast protection from evil-). Southern Magician allows arcane spells to be cast as divine spells and divine spells as arcane (-as a divine spell), and also in theory would allow '+1 level of existing divine spell castingclass' to do something for us. Mounted Combat is a required feat anyways. Being a human gives us a bonus feat, and we need to be human for southern magician. You can go with a non-human, but then need the feat old blood, making you need 6 feats and postponing entry further. 10th level is the minimum for pure dusk blade entry because, kin mastery requires 3rd level spell access. Level 14 entry would be recommended, simply for full channeling. So, any race can enter easily with 1 flaw with use of the feat; 1st level Old Blood (Human) [Bastards and Bloodlines]. So..

Race: Any
Class: Duskblade 14
Flaws: Atleast 1 (Any)
Overall effective duskblade level; 17
Feats: Old Blood (any) [BaB], Necromantic Bloodline [DMC], Arcane Disciple (Good)[CD], Mounted Combat [PHB 1], Southern Magician[FR-RoF], Kin Mastery[DMC]



Back to your idea. It looks good. If you want, maybe I can cook up a table for you.

[Xuldarinar]

Infact, here. A gift.

{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special|1st|2nd|3rd|4th

1st|
+1|
+0|
+0|
+2|Detect Magic, Hexblade's Curse 1/day|-|-|-|-

2nd|
+2|
+0|
+0|
+3|Arcane Resistance, Channel Ether|-|-|-|-

3rd|
+3|
+1|
+1|
+3|Accursed Sanity|-|-|-|-

4th|
+4|
+1|
+1|
+4|Mystic Supression|0|-|-|-

5th|
+5|
+1|
+1|
+4|Dark Companion, Hexblade's Curse 2/day|0|-|-|-

6th|
+6/+1|
+2|
+2|
+5|Vengeful Dissolution 1/week |1|-|-|-

7th|
+7/+2|
+2|
+2|
+5|-|1|-|-|-

8th|
+8/+3|
+2|
+2|
+6|-|1|0|-|-

9th|
+9/+4|
+3|
+3|
+6|Vengeful Dissolution 2/week|1|0|-|-

10th|
+10/+5|
+3|
+3|
+7|Hexblade's Curse 3/day|1|1|-|-

11th|
+11/+6/+1|
+3|
+3|
+7|-|1|1|0|-

12th|
+12/+7/+2|
+4|
+4|
+8|Vengeful Dissolution 3/week|1|1|1|-

13th|
+13/+8/+3|
+4|
+4|
+8|-|1|1|1|-

14th|
+14/+9/+4|
+4|
+4|
+9|-|2|1|1|0

15th|
+15/+10/+5|
+5|
+5|
+9|Hexblade's Curse 4/day, Vengeful Dissolution 4/week|2|1|1|1

16th|
+16/+11/+6/+1|
+5|
+5|
+10|-|2|2|1|1

17th|
+17/+12/+7/+2|
+5|
+5|
+10|-|2|2|2|1

18th|
+18/+13/+8/+3|
+6|
+6|
+11|Vengeful Dissolution 5/week|3|2|2|1

19th|
+19/+14/+9/+4|
+6|
+6|
+11|-|3|3|3|2

20th|
+20/+15/+10/+5|
+6|
+6|
+12|Hexblade's Curse 5/day|3|3|3|3 [/table]

[AppleVsOrange]

I'm glad you like it. My only concern is that the abilities are not balanced, but I'm pretty sure they are. Anyone else have critiques?

Also, thanks for the table. I have one made, but it's on excel, and I didn't want to reformat it. :P

[Xuldarinar]

I'm glad you like it. My only concern is that the abilities are not balanced, but I'm pretty sure they are. Anyone else have critiques?

Also, thanks for the table. I have one made, but it's on excel, and I didn't want to reformat it. :P


No problem.

In terms of balance, it -looks- alright. Someone would need to run one in a campaign alongside a paladin to test appropriately.

I actually feel inspired by this. I have a thread for prestigious character class variants (Like.. Prestige Paladin of Freedom or Prestige Divine Bard). I might just include a Prestige Hexblade.

[ngilop]

It looks very nice.

id get rid of the lay on hands rip off though as thematically it doesn't fit a class named Hex Blade.

whilst I would rather the hex blade get some kind of curse use i guess the magic supression is a decent trade off.

but yeah overall I think what you have done is cool, minus the lay on hands and it becomes real good.

[Just to Browse]

The worst thing about the hexblade and paladin was that their iconic ability (curse/smite) was something usable only once per day at the most commonly-played levels and only had about a 50% chance to work at all.

I recommend following what most paladin and hexblade fixes do, and making the curse something that can be charged up (5min rest, once per encounter, once per 10HP damage, etc.). That way the player can use it every combat at least once, and you don't need to make it break the RNG. Charisma modifier as a penalty to rolls is a big deal, and now you can write something that scales with level (perhaps the highest-level spell he can cast + 1 ?).

Arcane Resistance is cool.

Channel Ether is a bad ability--it encourages hexblades to nova through their encounters and then rest, which is the opposite of what lay on hands was made to do. I'd honestly keep this as healing, or make it temporary HP or something, because the whole idea of the paladin class feature was the increase durability. The hexblade probably doesn't need extra damage anyways.

Accursed Sanity is strictly better than Immunity to Fear, since fear effects are mind-affecting.

Mystic Suppression is better than turn undead unless you are using divine metamagic abuse on the paladin (which is probably unlikely in most campaigns).

The spellcasting is non-functional, as there is no table for spells known (though xuldinar has been kind enough to provide a spells per day)

Dark Companion is strictly inferior to the paladin's mount.

Vengeful dissolution is strictly better than cure disease.

[Xuldarinar]

The worst thing about the hexblade and paladin was that their iconic ability (curse/smite) was something usable only once per day at the most commonly-played levels and only had about a 50% chance to work at all.

I recommend following what most paladin and hexblade fixes do, and making the curse something that can be charged up (5min rest, once per encounter, once per 10HP damage, etc.). That way the player can use it every combat at least once, and you don't need to make it break the RNG. Charisma modifier as a penalty to rolls is a big deal, and now you can write something that scales with level (perhaps the highest-level spell he can cast + 1 ?).

Arcane Resistance is cool.

Channel Ether is a bad ability--it encourages hexblades to nova through their encounters and then rest, which is the opposite of what lay on hands was made to do. I'd honestly keep this as healing, or make it temporary HP or something, because the whole idea of the paladin class feature was the increase durability. The hexblade probably doesn't need extra damage anyways.

Accursed Sanity is strictly better than Immunity to Fear, since fear effects are mind-affecting.

Mystic Suppression is better than turn undead unless you are using divine metamagic abuse on the paladin (which is probably unlikely in most campaigns).

The spellcasting is non-functional, as there is no table for spells known (though xuldinar has been kind enough to provide a spells per day)

Dark Companion is strictly inferior to the paladin's mount.

Vengeful dissolution is strictly better than cure disease.

Valid points across the board with one exception. I believe we are to assume that hexblade here would use the hexblade's spell list.

[AppleVsOrange]

The worst thing about the hexblade and paladin was that their iconic ability (curse/smite) was something usable only once per day at the most commonly-played levels and only had about a 50% chance to work at all.

I recommend following what most paladin and hexblade fixes do, and making the curse something that can be charged up (5min rest, once per encounter, once per 10HP damage, etc.). That way the player can use it every combat at least once, and you don't need to make it break the RNG. Charisma modifier as a penalty to rolls is a big deal, and now you can write something that scales with level (perhaps the highest-level spell he can cast + 1 ?).

Arcane Resistance is cool.

Channel Ether is a bad ability--it encourages hexblades to nova through their encounters and then rest, which is the opposite of what lay on hands was made to do. I'd honestly keep this as healing, or make it temporary HP or something, because the whole idea of the paladin class feature was the increase durability. The hexblade probably doesn't need extra damage anyways.

Accursed Sanity is strictly better than Immunity to Fear, since fear effects are mind-affecting.

Mystic Suppression is better than turn undead unless you are using divine metamagic abuse on the paladin (which is probably unlikely in most campaigns).

The spellcasting is non-functional, as there is no table for spells known (though xuldinar has been kind enough to provide a spells per day)

Dark Companion is strictly inferior to the paladin's mount.

Vengeful dissolution is strictly better than cure disease.

My goal here is to match the power level of the paladin (inherently broken or not), while still balancing the abilties as different thematic elements.

I'm with you on the curse/smite being unusable at certain levels. However, at this point, I'm going off of the PHB strictly. That can be houseruled.

Channel ether was just one option that sounded like a good balance. It seemed to fit the build a little better than healing, being an arcane class, which are usually more damage oriented (at least the way I play them :P). I got the idea from the duskblade ability, but there are other options. How about some kind of DR ability that only works up to a total of (X) points per day and can be activated when hit? That would still be thematic to the class and keep true to the "keeping me alive" thing.

Accursed Sanity, IMHO, is balanced well enough, seeing as it is in exchange for two seperate immunities (i.e. fear through aura of courage and disease through divine health). Like I said, Mind-affecting effects is a broader spectrum of effects, but this ability is giving up TWO immunities for it. That seems balanced doesnt it?

Mystic Suppression seems balanced to me because it does effectively the same thing as turn undead(subverts a threat), requires a successful roll, and is only temporary (the same duration as a successful turn attempt). It is also only usuable the same amount of times per day as Turn Undead. It also fits thematically with a Hexblade, who inherently focuses more on magical effects than on the forces of evil (a.k.a. undead).

The spellcasting, as previously stated, would not be changed at all from the Complete Warrior wording, because it is effectively the exact same as the Paladin's spellcasting abilities already. I saw no reason to change it to fit the build, because it already fits.

Dark Companion is verbatim out of the PHBII, and I believe it is analogous. It applies a -2 to AC to any adjacent enemy without a save allowed. Couple that with inability to be hit, and it seems pretty balanced to me. No?

Vengeful Dissolution is the equivalent of a Dispel Magic effect, which is a Pal 3, Sor/Wiz 3 spell. Remove Disease is a Pal 3, Sor/Wiz 4 spell. This alone should make it balanced, but you must also keep in mind that this ability is predicated on a successful use of the mystic suppression ability, and is not on its own usable. It can only be added onto a use of another class ability, therefore the build has overall less spell-like abilites per day. Other than tat, it follows the same usage rules per week as remove disease.

[AppleVsOrange]

It looks very nice.

id get rid of the lay on hands rip off though as thematically it doesn't fit a class named Hex Blade.

whilst I would rather the hex blade get some kind of curse use i guess the magic supression is a decent trade off.

but yeah overall I think what you have done is cool, minus the lay on hands and it becomes real good.

As previously stated, my only goal here was to turn the hexblade into a paladin variant instead of its own class, and that means analogous abilities. We're I building the class from the ground up, well...I wouldn't. Haha. Everything here is in keeping with the foundation layed by the paladin.

[AppleVsOrange]

Shameless bump, but is there anymore feedback on this that the interwebz has to offer?

[Just to Browse]

My goal here is to match the power level of the paladin (inherently broken or not), while still balancing the abilties as different thematic elements.

I'm with you on the curse/smite being unusable at certain levels. However, at this point, I'm going off of the PHB strictly. That can be houseruled.If you say so...


Channel ether was just one option that sounded like a good balance. It seemed to fit the build a little better than healing, being an arcane class, which are usually more damage oriented (at least the way I play them :P). I got the idea from the duskblade ability, but there are other options. How about some kind of DR ability that only works up to a total of (X) points per day and can be activated when hit? That would still be thematic to the class and keep true to the "keeping me alive" thing.I still prefer temp HP because it's easier to keep the current algorithm, but if you can think of a decently balanced DR that's good.

I'm very against bonus damage for my previous reasons.


Accursed Sanity, IMHO, is balanced well enough, seeing as it is in exchange for two seperate immunities (i.e. fear through aura of courage and disease through divine health). Like I said, Mind-affecting effects is a broader spectrum of effects, but this ability is giving up TWO immunities for it. That seems balanced doesnt it?I like where you're going, but accursed sanity still covers more ground. If we assume that all immunities are on even ground, [Mind-Affecting] still gives immunity to phantasms, fear, compulsions, mind control, and most types of mental stat damage.


Mystic Suppression seems balanced to me because it does effectively the same thing as turn undead(subverts a threat), requires a successful roll, and is only temporary (the same duration as a successful turn attempt). It is also only usuable the same amount of times per day as Turn Undead. It also fits thematically with a Hexblade, who inherently focuses more on magical effects than on the forces of evil (a.k.a. undead).
Perhaps then he could rebuke undead? The problem with this is that undead are far less prevalent than magic, so the hexblade will be kicking ass and taking names every other fight while the paladin might shine once every 6-8 combats, if at all.


The spellcasting, as previously stated, would not be changed at all from the Complete Warrior wording, because it is effectively the exact same as the Paladin's spellcasting abilities already. I saw no reason to change it to fit the build, because it already fits.All right.


Dark Companion is verbatim out of the PHBII, and I believe it is analogous. It applies a -2 to AC to any adjacent enemy without a save allowed. Couple that with inability to be hit, and it seems pretty balanced to me. No?Dark Companion is a floating debuff, which is OK. The paladin's mount is a tough combatant with an extra set of actions. Heck, it can be any creature whose CR is 3 less than the paladin's level, and it comes with evasion and spell resistance.


Vengeful Dissolution is the equivalent of a Dispel Magic effect, which is a Pal 3, Sor/Wiz 3 spell. Remove Disease is a Pal 3, Sor/Wiz 4 spell. This alone should make it balanced, but you must also keep in mind that this ability is predicated on a successful use of the mystic suppression ability, and is not on its own usable. It can only be added onto a use of another class ability, therefore the build has overall less spell-like abilites per day. Other than tat, it follows the same usage rules per week as remove disease. Fireball and haste are also level 3 sorcerer/wizard spells, but haste is widely acknowledged as one of the strongest level 3 spells and fireball as one of the weakest. A similar thing goes for remove disease and dispel magic--you almost never see diseases at the same rate that you see magic.

[AppleVsOrange]

Alright. So how about these fixes?


Deflect Energy (Su): Beginning at 2nd level, a hexblade with a Charisma score of 12 or higher can magically deflect wounds from magical sources. Any time she is subject to hitpoint damage from a spell, spell-like ability, or supernatural ability she can choose as an immediate action to disregard a portion of this damage. Each day she can shirk a total number of hit points of damage equal to her hexblade level × her Charisma bonus. For example, a 7th-level hexblade with a 16 Charisma (+3 bonus) can deflect 21 points of damage per day. A hexblade may choose to divide her damage among multiple attacks, and she may not use more than half of her daily allotment for one attack. Using deflect energy is an immediate action and can be used after the damage roll has been totaled.This would replace Channel Ether in the previous build, and of course mirror the lay on hands ability.

Get rid of Accursed Sanity altogether and keep Aura of courage (immunity to fear, +4 to allies in 10 ft. to save). I guess some things shouldn't be changed, and it still fits thematically.

Now, to balance Divine health (immunity to disease), and in keeping with the theme of the class, how about this:

Mental Accuity (Su): Beginning at 3rd level, the Hexblade gains immunity to all Compulsion effects, including supernatural and magical effects.




Quote:
Mystic Suppression seems balanced to me because it does effectively the same thing as turn undead(subverts a threat), requires a successful roll, and is only temporary (the same duration as a successful turn attempt). It is also only usuable the same amount of times per day as Turn Undead. It also fits thematically with a Hexblade, who inherently focuses more on magical effects than on the forces of evil (a.k.a. undead).

Perhaps then he could rebuke undead? The problem with this is that undead are far less prevalent than magic, so the hexblade will be kicking ass and taking names every other fight while the paladin might shine once every 6-8 combats, if at all.



How about if we were to change "Turn Undead" into "Turn Elementals", in keeping with the flavor? I'm not too brushed up on m y elementals, but it seems like a fair trade, don't you think?



Quote:
Dark Companion is verbatim out of the PHBII, and I believe it is analogous. It applies a -2 to AC to any adjacent enemy without a save allowed. Couple that with inability to be hit, and it seems pretty balanced to me. No?

Dark Companion is a floating debuff, which is OK. The paladin's mount is a tough combatant with an extra set of actions. Heck, it can be any creature whose CR is 3 less than the paladin's level, and it comes with evasion and spell resistance.



So what if we either A. bumped the static number of the debuff to something like CHA mod, B. Made the debuff scale with level, or C. Added another ability or two to bring him up to par. I just really like the flavor of this ability, and I'd like to try to keep it if at all possible.


Quote:
Vengeful Dissolution is the equivalent of a Dispel Magic effect, which is a Pal 3, Sor/Wiz 3 spell. Remove Disease is a Pal 3, Sor/Wiz 4 spell. This alone should make it balanced, but you must also keep in mind that this ability is predicated on a successful use of the mystic suppression ability, and is not on its own usable. It can only be added onto a use of another class ability, therefore the build has overall less spell-like abilites per day. Other than tat, it follows the same usage rules per week as remove disease.

Fireball and haste are also level 3 sorcerer/wizard spells, but haste is widely acknowledged as one of the strongest level 3 spells and fireball as one of the weakest. A similar thing goes for remove disease and dispel magic--you almost never see diseases at the same rate that you see magic.

Here are a few 3rd level spells i got out of the spell compendium that seem to fit. What do you guys think for the X/Week ability?

Energy Vortex


Evocation [Acid, Cold, Electricity, Fire, Sonic]
Level: Cleric 3, Druid 3
Components: V, S,
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: 20 ft.
Area: All creatures within a 20-ft.-radius burst centered on you
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex half
Spell Resistance: Yes


When you cast energy vortex, you choose one of five energy types: acid, cold, fire, electricity, or sonic.
A blast of that energy type bursts in all directions from you, dealing 1d8 points of damage +1 point per caster level (maximum +20) to nearby creatures other than you.
If you are willing to take the damage yourself, you deal twice as much damage.
You don't get a Reflex save, but spell resistance applies, as do any resistances and immunities you have to the energy type.




Unluck
Divination
Level: Bard 3, Sor/Wiz 3
Components: V, S, M,
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: One creature
Duration: 1 round/level
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: Yes


When you cast this spell, you negatively influence the randomness of fortune for the target.
Whenever the affected creature undertakes an action involving random chance (specifically, whenever any die roll is made for the creature, including attack rolls, damage rolls, and saving throws), two separate rolls are made and the worse result applied.
A creature carrying a stone of good luck is immune to the effect of unluck, but the stone's effects do not function for the duration of the spell if the creature fails its save.
Material Component: A piece of a broken mirror.



Rainbow Blast Evocation
Level: Sor/wiz 3
Components: V, S, M
Casting time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Area: Line
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex half
Spell Resistance: Yes


From your splayed fingers shoots a beam of mixed energy and multihued lights. The beam burns and freezes, sizzles and screams.

This spell is a wide-spectrum blast of radiant energy composed of all fiveenergy types. Rainbow blast deals 1d6 points of damage from each of the five energy types (acid, cold, electricity, fire, and sonic), for a total of 5d6 points of damage. Creatures apply resistance to energy separately for each type of damage.

As you gain in levels, the damage die increases in size. At 7th level the spell deals 5d8 points of damage, at 9th level it deals 5d10 points of damage, and at 11th level it deals 5d12 points of damage—one die for each of the five energy types.

Focus: A small clear gem or crystal prism worth at least 50 gp.



Diamondsteel
Transmutation
Level: Paladin 3, sorcerer/wizard 3
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Suit of metal armor touched
Duration: 1 round/level
Saving Throw: Will negates (object)
Spell Resistance: Yes (object)
You pass your hand over the suit of armor several times before finally touching it. As you do so, you feel a warmth grow in the palm of your hand. The warmth passes into the armor and manifests as a sparkling shine.
Diamondsteel enhances the strength of one suit of metal armor. The armor provides damage reduction equal to half the AC bonus of the armor. This damage reduction can be overcome only by adamantine weapons. For example, a suit of full plate would provide damage reduction 4/adamantine, and a +1 breastplate (+6 AC) would provide damage reduction 3/adamantine.
Material Component: Diamond dust worth at least 50 gp.



Steeldance
Evocation
Level: Sorcerer 3, Wizard 3,
Components: V, S, AF,
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: Touch
Target: Two daggers
Duration: 1 round/level
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No


You cause two daggers in your possession to grow to the size and shape of longswords, which then attack creatures you specify.
The blades have AC 14 (+1 size, +1 Dex, +2 natural), hardness 10, and 5 hit points.
They fly at speed 30 feet (good maneuverability), deal 1d8 points of slashing damage, and score a threat of a critical on a natural 19 or 20.
They are otherwise treated as Medium-size animated objects (as if animated by an animate objects spell).
You can cast spells such as magic weapon on the daggers before or after the steeldance spell takes effect.
Focus: Two daggers.


If you've got any other ideas, Shoot. I chose these because remove disease is a cleric 3 spell, and these are all 3rd level spells as well.

[Just to Browse]

Alright. So how about these fixes?Those are all great ideas. The immunity to compulsions suits me just fine.


How about if we were to change "Turn Undead" into "Turn Elementals", in keeping with the flavor? I'm not too brushed up on m y elementals, but it seems like a fair trade, don't you think?It doesn't seem all that arcane-y. Perhaps turn outsiders?


So what if we either A. bumped the static number of the debuff to something like CHA mod, B. Made the debuff scale with level, or C. Added another ability or two to bring him up to par. I just really like the flavor of this ability, and I'd like to try to keep it if at all possible.I like the flavor of a hexblade riding a phantom horse made of darkness, but if you really want to switch out the mount I'd recommend making the penalty equal to your hexblade level or charisma modifier, whichever is lower. Perhaps you could also let it replicate phantom steed when not used in combat so hexblade chargers can still exist.


Here are a few 3rd level spells i got out of the spell compendium that seem to fit. What do you guys think for the X/Week ability?The paladin's remove disease is a 1/week ability because it's a situationally useful ability that functions outside combat and increases the durability of the party. Your suggested hexblade spells are all offensive, so they suffer from the same problem that channel ether does--the hexblade is encouraged to nova instead of endure, and that's opposite to the whole point of the ability.

Suggestions I'd have are removal of negative levels, healing ability damage, and curing poison.

[AppleVsOrange]

1. "Turn Outsiders" would work exactly like "Turn Undead", but with any creature that has the outsider template? How would that work? What if the hexblade were to go to another plane and try to use it?

2. Now that you put it that way, the shadow steed sounds pretty cool. Would I just take the paladin steed and re-flavor it, or what? How would you do it?

3. How about either Lesser Restoration or just plain old Restoration for the X/Week ability? It would be literally analogous to the Remove Disease? And which would you use? Resto or the lesser version?

[Xuldarinar]

1. "Turn Outsiders" would work exactly like "Turn Undead", but with any creature that has the outsider template? How would that work? What if the hexblade were to go to another plane and try to use it?

In dragon magazine, I found these:

Turn Outsider: Anti-Paladin (CE Paladin Varaint), Sentinel (NG Paladin Variant),
Rebuke Outsider: Incarnate (TN Paladin Variant)


Both work exactly as Turn/Rebuke Undead, except on outsiders. Outsiders on their native plane are Outsider (native).

[AppleVsOrange]

So. Turn attempt would work on a creature with the [Outsider (native)]?

Also, I'm thinking that a rebuke ability would be more appropriate. But the mechanics are effectively the same, right?

[Just to Browse]

1. I would run it just like turn undead, and I wouldn't recommend doing rebuke because that could lead to the player getting crap like erinyes and devils under his command, and that's just a road down to chaos.

Whether or not outsiders on their native plane are immune, resistant, or still as vulnerable is up to you. I don't think it'll tip the balance either way.


2. Well I'd reflavor the paladin mount, or do what you were already doing and let the shadow animal function as a phantom steed (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/phantomSteed.htm) effect if you're not using it to debuff.


3. Lesser restoration sounds good to me. It'll probably see more use that way. I wouldn't recommend giving restoration since (despite it being balanced) it's definitely a cut above curing disease.

[AppleVsOrange]

1. I would run it just like turn undead, and I wouldn't recommend doing rebuke because that could lead to the player getting crap like erinyes and devils under his command, and that's just a road down to chaos.

Whether or not outsiders on their native plane are immune, resistant, or still as vulnerable is up to you. I don't think it'll tip the balance either way.


2. Well I'd reflavor the paladin mount, or do what you were already doing and let the shadow animal function as a phantom steed (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/phantomSteed.htm) effect if you're not using it to debuff.


3. Lesser restoration sounds good to me. It'll probably see more use that way. I wouldn't recommend giving restoration since (despite it being balanced) it's definitely a cut above curing disease.


Fantastic! I'll take what you have said to heart.

I'll most likely be posting a class for PEACH soon.

[AppleVsOrange]

Ok Ladies and Gents, here we go.

Class Features:
All of the following are class features of the Hexblade.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Hexblades are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, with all types of armor (heavy, medium, and light), and with shields (except tower shields). The somatic components for hexblade spells are minimal, therefore she ignores arcane spell failure chance when wearing armor or using shields (besides tower shields).

Detect Magic(Sp): At will, a Hexblade can use detect magic as the spell.

Hexblade’s Curse (Su): Once per day, as a free action, a hexblade can unleash a curse upon a foe. The target must be visible to the hexblade and within 60 feet. The target of a hexblade’s curse takes a penalty equal to her Charisma Modifier on attacks, saves, ability checks, skill checks, and weapon damage rolls for 1 hour thereafter. A successful Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 hexblade’s class level + hexblade’s Cha modifier) negates the effect. At 5th, 10th, 15th, and 20th levels, the hexblade gains an additional use of this curse, with a maximum of 5/Day at level 20.

Arcane Resistance (Su): At 2nd level, a hexblade gains a bonus equal to his Charisma bonus (minimum +1) on all saving throws.

Deflect Energy (Su): Beginning at 2nd level, a hexblade with a Charisma score of 12 or higher can magically deflect wounds from magical sources. Any time she is subject to hitpoint damage from a spell, spell-like ability, or supernatural ability she can choose as an immediate action to disregard a portion of this damage. Each day she can shirk a total number of hit points of damage equal to her hexblade level × her Charisma bonus. For example, a 7th-level hexblade with a 16 Charisma (+3 bonus) can deflect 21 points of damage per day. A hexblade may choose to divide her damage among multiple attacks, and she may not use more than half of her daily allotment for one attack. Using deflect energy is an immediate action and can be used after the damage roll has been totaled.

Aura of Courage (Su): Beginning at 3rd level, a hexblade is immune to fear (magical or otherwise). Each ally within 10 feet of her gains a +4 morale bonus on saving throws against fear effects. This ability functions while the hexblade is conscious, but not if she is unconscious or dead.

Mental Acuity (Su): Beginning at 3rd level, the Hexblade gains immunity to all Compulsion effects, including supernatural and magical effects.

Turn Outsiders (Su): When a hexblade reaches 4th level, she gains the supernatural ability to turn outsiders. She may use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + her Charisma modifier. She turns outsiders as a good cleric of three levels lower would turn undead. (See Turn or Rebuke Undead, page 159 in the Player's Handbook.)


Spells: Beginning at 4th level, a hexblade gains the ability to cast a small number of arcane spells, which are drawn from the hexblade spell list. He can cast any spell he knows without preparing it ahead of time, just as a sorcerer can (see page 54 of the Player’s Handbook). To learn or cast a spell, a hexblade must have a Charisma score equal to at least 10 + the spell level (Cha 11 for 1st-level spells, Cha 12 for 2nd-level spells, and so forth). The Difficulty Class for a saving throw against a hexblade’s spell is 10 + the spell level + the hexblade’s Cha modifier. Like other spellcasters, a hexblade can cast only a certain number of spells of each spell level per day. His base daily spell allotment is given on The Hexblade table. In addition, he receives bonus spells per day if he has a high Charisma score (see Table 1–1: Ability Modifiers and Bonus Spells, page 8 of the Player’s Handbook). When the table indicates that the hexblade gets 0 spells per day of a given spell level (for instance, 1st-level spells for a 4th-level hexblade), he gains only the bonus spells he would be entitled to based on his Charisma score for that spell level. The hexblade’s selection of spells is extremely limited. A hexblade begins play knowing no spells, but gains one or more new spells at certain levels, as indicated on the table. (Unlike spells per day, his Charisma score does not affect the number of spells a hexblade knows; the numbers on the table are fixed.) Upon reaching 12th level, and at every third hexblade level after that (15th and 18th), a hexblade can choose to learn a new spell in place of one he already knows. In effect, the hexblade “loses” the old hexblade spell in exchange for the new one. The new spell’s level must be the same as that of the spell being exchanged, and it must be at least two levels lower than the highest-level hexblade spell the hexblade can cast. For instance, upon reaching 12th level, a hexblade could trade in a single 1st- level spell (two spell levels below the highest-level hexblade spell he can cast, which is 3rd) for a different 1st-level spell. At 15th level, he could trade in a single 1st-level or 2nd-level spell (since he now can cast 4th-level hexblade spells) for a different spell of the same level. A hexblade may swap only a single spell at any given level, and must choose whether or not to swap the spell at the same time that he gains new spells for that level. Through third level, a hexblade has no caster level. At 4th level and higher, his caster level is one-half his hexblade level.

Dark Companion: At 5th level, you form into existence a being composed entirely of shadows. This being can take the shape of any tiny, small, or medium animal, and is spun from the darkness of the night. Doing so takes 24 hours and uses up resources that cost 100gp. Once created, your dark companion stands with you in battle, hindering your opponents.
Any enemy adjacent to your dark companion takes a -2 penalty on its saves and to its AC. Your companion's speed is equal to yours (including all modes of movement you possess) and it acts during your turn each round. It follows your mental commands perfectly - in effect, it is an extension of your will.
Your dark companion has no real substance, and thus can't attack or otherwise affect other creatures or objects. It occupies a 5-foot space. Even though any creature can enter your dark companion's 5-foot space without restriction, it must occupy its own space in order to have any effect on enemies. It is immune to any damage or effects that might harm creatures, though it can be dispelled or suppressed just like a spell effect. Your dark companion is treated as a spell whose level is equal to 1/4 your hexblade level. If it is dispelled, it reforms at your side 24 hours later.
A dark companion can't create flanking situations, nor does it provoke attacks of opportunity from movement, because enemies automatically recognize it as an illusion. If it ends its turn more than 120 feet from you, or if you ever lose line of effect to it, it instantly reappears adjacent to you.
At the command of the hexblade, the dark companion can assume the form of a shadowy beast, the size of a normal mount for the size of the hexblade. While in this form, the companion does not bestow a penalty to adjacent creatures, but it functions as per the spell phantom steed, with your caster level being equal to 1/4 your hexblade level. It is a move action to change the dark companion from one form to another. This ability does not provide the hexblade with any bonuses to her Ride skill.

Lesser Restoration (Sp): At 6th level, a Hexblade can produce a lesser restoration effect, as the spell, once per week. She can use this ability one additional time per week for every three levels after 6th (twice per week at 9th, three times at 12th, and so forth).

Your thoughts are welcome. :)