Negative LA Templates

[Just to Browse]

So I really like the idea of applying templates to PCs and creatures, but I hate losing access to level-appropriate abilities, so here are some negative LA templates that aren't broken as hell (looking at you, incarnate construct :smalltongue:)

On Applying Negative LA:
So let's get some hard-coded rules for negative LA, since there's nothing really dictating how it works.
Level adjustment does not let you take extra levels, it simply cancels out level adjustment that you would receive from other sources.
Negative level adjustment is always applied last (after any sources of positive level adjustment)
Negative level adjustment cannot decrease your ECL below your hit dice.
(Here's the complicated one) You may use one source of negative level adjustment to cancel out multiple sources of positive level adjustment, but not vice versa. (REMOVED)
Broken positive LA templates are still broken. The existence of half-fey is an abomination in the eyes of man and should not be used with or without these rules.
If two templates that grant negative level adjustment share a feature, you cannot take both.
Negative LA templates are kind of like flaws in that they must be OK'd by a DM, and also that while it's probably OK to stack more than one, too many negative level adjustment templates can over-focus you into one aspect or make you an annoyance at the table. Try not to do that.
Negative LA greater than -3 probably shouldn't exist.

These negative LA templates are created with the idea that they will be used for optimization purposes. If you're looking to get the flavor that one of these offers but you're not trying to actively mitigate the penalties, you should consider using another character option. Perhaps some LA +0 templates are in order.

Cursed
A template for someone who has been permanently marked by fate. This could be because time assassins are out to get him or because his psychic experiments went awry and he bends time in towards himself, the flavor is up to you. Typically this is done as a sacrifice in order to increase one's power (like a ritual that gives you lolth-touched but leaves you cursed).

This can be applied to any creature.
Size and Type: Unchanged
Hit Dice: Unchanged
Speed: Unchanged
AC: A cursed creature takes a -4 unnamed penalty to AC, and its AC, touch AC, and flat-footed AC cannot exceed 10 + it's ECL.
Special Qualities: A cursed creature gains the following special qualities, which cannot be removed unless the level adjustment of this template is also removed.

Divine Accuracy: The cursed creature benefits less from concealment than others would. Total concealment (but not total cover) is treated as concealment (20%), concealment is instead treated as minor concealmentToM (10%), and minor concealment grants no bonuses. Enemies are aware that cursed creatures are more easy to hit.
Lingering Magic (Ex): A cursed creature takes a -4 unnamed penalty to SR if it has any, and its SR cannot exceed 6 + it's ECL.
Saves: A cursed creature takes a -2 unnamed penalty to all saves and is treated as having a poor save progression in every class he takes.
Abilities: Unchanged
Level Adjustment: -1

Blood Magician
A template for magic users! You pay blood to augment your powers in whatever other way you desire.

Requirements: Able to cast spells or use spell-like abilities of a level of at least a bard of your ECL, not counting level 0 spells (table spoilered below). Must have a constitution score
{table]ECL|Spell Level
1-3|1
4-6|2
7-9|3
10-12|4
13-15|5
16+|6
[/table]

Size and Type: Unchanged
Hit Dice: Unchanged
Speed: Unchanged
AC: Unchanged
Special Qualities: Blood Magician's gain special qualities in accordance with how deep their magic goes. These qualities determine the level adjustment of the template.

Blood Magic: Casting a spell or using a spell-like ability causes the blood magician to lose HP equal to twice the level of the spell. This forces a concentration check as if damage were taken when casting the spell.
Body Fuel: Casting a spell or using a spell-like ability causes the blood magician to take Constitution damage equal to the level of the spell + 2, unless the blood magician's current constitution damage is greater than the damage that casting the spell would inflict. This loss cannot be reduced or switched to another attribute, but it can be healed like normal ability damage. If this constitution damage would kill the blood magician, the spell instead fails and she takes no damage.

Abilities: Unchanged
Level Adjustment: This depends on which special quality the blood magician chooses (she can only choose one). Blood Magic: -1
Body Fuel: -2

Slothful
You are exceptionally lazy. Maybe you are a dragon that likes to sleep, or you just don't care about life.

Inspired by the template from Ganteka Future (https://dnd-wiki.org/wiki/Slothful_(3.5e_Template)).

This can be applied to any creature.
Size and Type: Unchanged
Hit Dice: Unchanged
Speed: A slothful creature's speed is reduced by 10 feet, to a minimum of 5 feet.
AC: A slothful creature never adds their Dexterity to Armor Class.
Special Qualities: A slothful creature gains the following special qualities, which cannot be removed unless the level adjustment of this template is also removed.

Pathetic Initiative: A slothful creature has a -20 unnamed penalty to initiative.
Take Your Time: A slothful creature may not act in surprise round.
Warming Up: In their first round of combat, a slothful creature is limited to a partial action or a swift action.
Saves: A slothful creature never adds their Dexterity to saves.
Abilities: Unchanged
Level Adjustment: -2

Requests?

[Centric]

Not familiar with multiple sources of LA, so that might make me the yokel here, but let's say you have a +3, a +2, and another +2 for some reason. I take three -1 templates because I'm a masochist. Sure, I can't total those up onto the +3 because rules, but I can apply each separately to my three +LAs. Now I can't take any more -LAs because that would be multiple -LAs on a single +LA.

Now what if I decide instead to take a -4, -1, and -1? Sure, that -4 is crossing over into one of the +2s, which conflicts with your wording, but look at what I have to do to "cheat" like this. -3 Essence Magic looks punishing enough, never mind what a -4 would be!

Thanks to how arithmetic works, I think that the wording "You may not have more LA templates than sources of +LA" captures the same intent as bullet point four more simply. With the exception that you may take as many +0s as you like, I suppose.


I'd like to see a template wherein the character seems to be the epicenter/subject of some joke of fate, affecting himself, the surroundings, or both. Cosmic Farce has a nice ring to it.:smalltongue:

[Just to Browse]

You make some good points. Firstly, I was actually thinking of removing that rule entirely, since three -1 LA templates could really be killer, and as long as a negative LA template is bad enough for a player, you don't lose much in the way of balance by giving them an LA +3 template. Removing the rule also means I don't need to write an FAQ for how negative LA wroks.

And i like the idea of a comic cosmic farce. It'll probably be similar to Cursed, but more for offensive capabilities.

Hmmm, one more thing. As more of these templates develop, there will need to be a way to avoid stacking penalties so that players can't just dump their failures into AC. I might normalize abilities (e.g. Divine Accuracy will be the ability for all creatures that are bad with concealment) and then have a rule saying you can't pick -LA templates if they have the same ability in them.

[Fortuna]

What happens if you stop qualifying for a template? For example, I take a wizard with precocious apprentice and a +3 template and the Essence Fuel version of the Blood Magician template. Then I take the rest of my levels in warblade. At some point my ECL will rise high enough that I can't cast spells of the appropriate level - what happens then?

[Just to Browse]

I would treat it like CWar rules for feats and PrCs--if you don't qualify for it, and there is no exception, then you lose the negative LA and your ECL bumps up.

Of course, using a 1-level dip with precocious apprentice to get +3 LA till ECL 6 will get books thrown at you, but I see the point. Perhaps some different restrictions should be implemented?

[Zelkon]

I don't know if this was intended, but Blood Mage is either really good for those who just barely qualify, or character destroying. Neither of these is worthwhile without severe cheese.

[Just to Browse]

I don't know if this was intended, but Blood Mage is either really good for those who just barely qualify, or character destroying. Neither of these is worthwhile without severe cheese.

The idea is that you mitigate your problems. Those who barely qualify are probably giving up their significant casting which means they are burning character resources for other character resources, and I'm ok with that. Those who are going to use the template and regularly incur penalties for it should be spending character resources to regularly healing up the damage, so it's again a trade I'm fine with.

But now that I've sat on this for long enough, I can see there's no good reason for essence magic to exist outside of TO, so I'll remove the option.

[Zelkon]

The idea is that you mitigate your problems. Those who barely qualify are probably giving up their significant casting which means they are burning character resources for other character resources, and I'm ok with that. Those who are going to use the template and regularly incur penalties for it should be spending character resources to regularly healing up the damage, so it's again a trade I'm fine with.

But now that I've sat on this for long enough, I can see there's no good reason for essence magic to exist outside of TO, so I'll remove the option.

Well, let's take the Phenric template, a LA+2. Hopefully you're playing with transparency, so you get SR, a couple of bonus stats, and a good deal of SLAs, depending on HD. This is one of the best templates out there for a lot of characters. However, barring some circumstances, knocking it off with this will cause a level 1 spellcaster not too much grief, but certainly some. Each day, he'll wake up a hit point or two short, until the end of the adventure. He's already gotten only ~7 health. Well, that sucks. Now, how about at level 10? That same constitution score will hardly be up at all. Let's say, maybe +2 because of items or something. However, now they have quite a few slots. So, even with the cleric devoting two spell slots a day to help them out, they'll still be losing Con at a breakneck pace, what with the 5th level spells knocking out nearly half the Con every casting. At level 20, you'll lose a staggering 11 Con, which you can probably heal back at the same rate you lose it for like five encounters at the cost of a good deal of slots, some of which might need to be spent in combat.
Cursed is utterly worthless in every way, and is a great way to get your character killed at every level to an at level spellcaster casting a single SoD. Not to mention the fighter being able to hit you, no exceptions. All for a LA +1 template.

[Just to Browse]

Well, let's take the Phenric template, a LA+2. Hopefully you're playing with transparency, so you get SR, a couple of bonus stats, and a good deal of SLAs, depending on HD. This is one of the best templates out there for a lot of characters. However, barring some circumstances, knocking it off with this will cause a level 1 spellcaster not too much grief, but certainly some. Each day, he'll wake up a hit point or two short, until the end of the adventure. He's already gotten only ~7 health. Well, that sucks. Now, how about at level 10? That same constitution score will hardly be up at all. Let's say, maybe +2 because of items or something. However, now they have quite a few slots. So, even with the cleric devoting two spell slots a day to help them out, they'll still be losing Con at a breakneck pace, what with the 5th level spells knocking out nearly half the Con every casting. At level 20, you'll lose a staggering 11 Con, which you can probably heal back at the same rate you lose it for like five encounters at the cost of a good deal of slots, some of which might need to be spent in combat.Oh god no. No, no no. In absolutely every way I mean no. These templates are not made for a character to just take penalties and go "ah well, I guess I'll just drain lifeblood until someone pokes me with a stick and I die!" That's a decision in league with hellfire warlocks that don't bind naberius, or wizards that pick up weapon focus (longsword). The point is that at level 1-2 you take the hit to Con (maybe), but at level 3 you dip binder or maybe learn lesser restoration and take mitigate suffering as a bonus feat. When you're using haste on your allies, it's in conjunction with someone dropping lesser restoration from a wand to make sure you're stable enough to hang on and maybe shoot a magic missile.


Cursed is utterly worthless in every way, and is a great way to get your character killed at every level to an at level spellcaster casting a single SoD. Not to mention the fighter being able to hit you, no exceptions. All for a LA +1 template. Right. Instead of throwing yourself wholesale in an attempt to call my work dumb (and totally missing the mark) you could have instead talked about why it was bad so I could correct what misconceptions you have. I'm going to address what appears to be your knee-jerk "ERGL IS SO BROKEN" instinct in the next paragraph, but if that doesn't quite do it for you just tell me what's bothering you about the template.

The cursed template is based around things that give +1 LA being strong at low levels, and so it makes you a glass cannon at low levels. At high levels, your saves will be supplemented with immunities and many fighters' attack bonuses are in the range of "lol don't care" against most AC, so the point at which the +1 LA template falls off is very similar to the point at which the -1 LA template falls of. This is intentional.

Of course, a difference of 4-6 between your base save and the saves of a guy who specializes isn't actually "getting killed at every level to an at level spellcaster", and having a -4 to AC also sin't getting "the fighter getting to hit you, no exceptions". At level 3, your AC is 13 and the dwarf knight is at 20-something. An enemy that hits him 35% of the time will hit you 70% of the time, and while that's a significant difference between [glass cannon] and [tank], it's not all hits all the time. And we're not even talking about the LA +1 template that you picked up. If you're a mineral warrior, you're probably happy that you're easy to hit because you're a high-priority target that's easy to hit (good for a tank) but you soak damage like a boss.

EDIT: I've realized that casters are penalized for using low-level spells with Body Fuel, which makes them very ineffective. I've implemented a cap for activating the effects in order to stop this, and I also made the spells fizzle if it would kill the blood magician.

[Zelkon]

Oh god no. No, no no. In absolutely every way I mean no. These templates are not made for a character to just take penalties and go "ah well, I guess I'll just drain lifeblood until someone pokes me with a stick and I die!" That's a decision in league with hellfire warlocks that don't bind naberius, or wizards that pick up weapon focus (longsword). The point is that at level 1-2 you take the hit to Con (maybe), but at level 3 you dip binder or maybe learn lesser restoration and take mitigate suffering as a bonus feat. When you're using haste on your allies, it's in conjunction with someone dropping lesser restoration from a wand to make sure you're stable enough to hang on and maybe shoot a magic missile.

Right. Instead of throwing yourself wholesale in an attempt to call my work dumb (and totally missing the mark) you could have instead talked about why it was bad so I could correct what misconceptions you have. I'm going to address what appears to be your knee-jerk "ERGL IS SO BROKEN" instinct in the next paragraph, but if that doesn't quite do it for you just tell me what's bothering you about the template.

The cursed template is based around things that give +1 LA being strong at low levels, and so it makes you a glass cannon at low levels. At high levels, your saves will be supplemented with immunities and many fighters' attack bonuses are in the range of "lol don't care" against most AC, so the point at which the +1 LA template falls off is very similar to the point at which the -1 LA template falls of. This is intentional.

Of course, a difference of 4-6 between your base save and the saves of a guy who specializes isn't actually "getting killed at every level to an at level spellcaster", and having a -4 to AC also sin't getting "the fighter getting to hit you, no exceptions". At level 3, your AC is 13 and the dwarf knight is at 20-something. An enemy that hits him 35% of the time will hit you 70% of the time, and while that's a significant difference between [glass cannon] and [tank], it's not all hits all the time. And we're not even talking about the LA +1 template that you picked up. If you're a mineral warrior, you're probably happy that you're easy to hit because you're a high-priority target that's easy to hit (good for a tank) but you soak damage like a boss.

EDIT: I've realized that casters are penalized for using low-level spells with Body Fuel, which makes them very ineffective. I've implemented a cap for activating the effects in order to stop this, and I also made the spells fizzle if it would kill the blood magician.
Speaking of knee-jerk reactions...Jeeze. Sorry you were offended.

You're right, though, there is a build or two that could utilize 'em. They just seemed a bit underpowered, and Blood Mage takes some really specific builds...Cursed is a bunch of penalties that seem to hurt quite a bit, and if the best you're getting from them is, let's take cleric. With the Zenythri race, the best LA+1 race give or take for a cleric, you get a few stat boosts but a penalty to charisma. Undervalued because Outsider can be cheesed to heck. You get some OK resistances, true strike 1/day (depends on your build), and darkvision (OK but can be replaced easily).
The poor saves and -2 to all is a real pain, which I'd say easily balances out all the resistances and probably true strike. Either one by themselves would be a big hit. AC penalty will be a big deal at lower levels, evening out darkvision. Attack mixed with the leftover "badness" from the AC penalty probably takes out the stat bonuses. All the rest probably balances from outsider. So one of the very best tempates is even-Steven.
Also, take in the "fun" factor. Sure, hitting less or saving less often isn't a big deal with mitigating factors. However, hitting less often, being taken out by a save more often, not overcoming SR makes everything less fun for the player.

[Mithril Leaf]

I would love some way to sell my limbs to shave off another 2 LA. I'm trying to get a character which can pick up Paramind (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=74692) without having to be an incarnated construct. More blood magic would be fun as well.

[Just to Browse]

It's been 7 years. Time for some more templates.

Cosmic Farce
Fate is a cruel mistress, and you are a testament to that. At critical moments your body will freeze, your willpower will fail, or your foes will gain flashes of insight.

This can be applied to any creature.
Size and Type: Unchanged
Hit Dice: Unchanged
Speed: Unchanged
AC: Unchanged
Special Qualities: A cosmic farce gains the following special quality, which cannot be removed unless the level adjustment of this template is also removed.

Winds of Fate: At the start of each of your turns, a cosmic farce rolls a d6 and consults the table below to determine how fate affects them. All effects from this special quality last until the start of your next turn.


Roll
Effect


1
You cannot move actions, swift actions, or immediate actions. You cannot make attacks of opportunity.


2
You cannot take standard actions.


3
When an attack roll is made against you, the attacker rolls twice and takes the higher result.


4
When a creature or object rolls a save against any effect that originates from you, it rolls twice and takes the higher result.


5
No effect.


6
No effect.




Abilities: Unchanged
Level Adjustment: -2

Impaired
You're just... not very good at things.

This can be applied to any creature.
Size and Type: Unchanged
Hit Dice: Unchanged
Speed: Unchanged
AC: Unchanged
Special Qualities: An impaired creature gains the following special quality, which cannot be removed unless the level adjustment of this template is also removed.

Impaired: An impaired creature's ability scores cannot exceed 11 + their ECL. If their ability score would be higher than their maximum, treat the ability score as the maximum instead.

Abilities: Unchanged
Level Adjustment: -1

Languishing
Throughout the many worlds of D&D, creatures cultivate unique talents and accomplish incredible feats. You are not one of those creatures.

This can be applied to any creature, so long as that creature has at least 3 HD (from race and/or class).
Size and Type: Unchanged
Hit Dice: Unchanged
Speed: Unchanged
AC: Unchanged
Special Qualities: A languishing creature gains the following special quality, which cannot be removed unless the level adjustment of this template is also removed.

Languishing: An impaired creature does not get a feat at levels 1 or 3.

Abilities: Unchanged
Level Adjustment: -1