Rolling too well

[JackRackham]

Assuming you rolled it naturally, would you feel right about playing a character with ability scores equivalent to a 49 point buy? If you were playing in a new group, and they never saw you roll said scores, would you still go with it, or would you nerf yourself?

I rolled out a character (4d6, drop the lowest) and this is what I came up with: 20, 16, 16, 14, 12, 11. I later found out that the others didn't roll especially well. I don't know how fair this will seem.

I was already kinda worried my character would look stronger than the group. These guys really don't optimize (at all, really) or play tactically. I intentionally avoided real optimization this go-round, but I'm playing a factotum and between the class' do-everything design and my play-style, I don't know how they're going to react.

[gr8artist]

First question, how did you roll a 20 with 3d6?
On the other hand, I would definitely nerf yourself. Explain to the group that you rolled really well and would like to be more in line with their power level. Average out the scores for each member of the party, and nerf yours until you're within an acceptable range. Feel free to keep some points. You rolled well, you should still have the best stat array. It just shouldn't be in another league all-together.

[ArcturusV]

I wouldn't roll with it as a matter of trust. If they don't know you and wouldn't believe it, I wouldn't run with it.

Presuming they are cool with it? I'd just run something low powered that I could conditionally have fun with. MAD classes who are basically just barely competent with a roll like that anyway. Samurai, Paladins, Rangers, etc.

[Thurbane]

First question, how did you roll a 20 with 3d6?

I'm assuming after racial mods and/or level ups.

Personally, my group always rolls, and yes, sometimes someone clearly stands out with their scores, but for us, that's part of the fun and chance of rolling opposed to point buy.

Our rolls are always witnessed, however...

[Ellrin]

I guess more important than whether it's a new group or not is how well you know them out of the game, and whether they more or less trust you. I'm with Thurbane as far as rolling imbalances go--I think they add more flavor, and I've always personally been loath to give that up in favor of balance or mechanics (for better or worse).

That said, it really depends on what you think the group is ready for. If you really don't know them outside the game at all, definitely tone it down a bit--reroll would be my suggestion.

[Chilingsworth]

If I was in a campaign that used any manner of rolling stats, I'd expect those stats to be rolled in the presence of the DM at the very least, if not the entire group. Possibly with insistance that the same die or dice be used to do the rolling.

So, no I wouldn't use the specific array.

However, had I rolled a strong array legitimately, I'd use it without hesitation. I'd never, ever accept nerfs that aren't being applied to everyone (and I'd argue hard against those), and never intentionally nerf myself.

Then again, I often have trouble keeping characters alive (generally by means of paying insufficent attention to defense) so I kinda need all the help I can get, anyway. I'm also often bad at resource management, blowing too many spells on easy encounters for instance.

[SowZ]

I rolled a 54 Point Buy once. I made him a monk. Problem solved. I ACTUALLY had all the stats I needed!

[GreenZ]

First, talk to them; both your party members and your GM. Simple communication skills can solve so many problems. If nobody has a problem with it then continue.

If you really want to play a factotum with those scores and if other party members aren't optimized; I'd suggest playing him like an old sensei-esque character by buffing the party, spouting words of wisdom, and letting them do things until you absolutely need to pull out the stops to prevent party members from dying.

Just because your character is a badass doesn't mean you need to overshadow anybody at all, you can be stronger without being merciless about it. In fact, you might want to be lazy and act completely incompetent until the moment you absolutely need to do something.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Also if you take those immense stats in any SAD class, most of them will be of less importance than on a MAD class. (Wizard vs Warblade, for a poor example).

[SowZ]

First, talk to them; both your party members and your GM. Simple communication skills can solve so many problems. If nobody has a problem with it then continue.

If you really want to play a factotum with those scores and if other party members aren't optimized; I'd suggest playing him like an old sensei-esque character by buffing the party, spouting words of wisdom, and letting them do things until you absolutely need to pull out the stops to prevent party members from dying.

Just because your character is a badass doesn't mean you need to overshadow anybody at all, you can be stronger without being merciless about it. In fact, you might want to be lazy and act completely incompetent until the moment you absolutely need to do something.

To expand on this, you could play a Bard. Take high Cha, Dex, Int, and Str. Be a decent melee fighter with good AC or archer with a composite bow. You won't overshadow the melee fighters or archers, but you will hold your own when you need to make attack rolls. Mostly buff and buff some more, with some battlefield control to get monsters to run into your deadlier party members and keep them from escaping.

Use Skillmonkeyness on skills you know that other members didn't take to fill those gaps. Train a couple skills even if someone else has some in it based on concept, but don't outdo a character in a skill that is super important to someone elses concept. Take some crafting, maybe craft magic items for the whole party.

You will get your moments to shine, but so should everyone else.

[Killer Angel]

Assuming you rolled it naturally, would you feel right about playing a character with ability scores equivalent to a 49 point buy? If you were playing in a new group, and they never saw you roll said scores, would you still go with it, or would you nerf yourself?

Every abilities' score that isn't rolled in front of the DM is invalid.
Every score rolled in front of the DM, is perfectly valid: the DM is THE witness, and the other player will accept it, even if they didn't saw the rolls (exception: DM's fiancee should roll in front of the other players, too).
The question should be moot: you fall in a case, or in the other.

Anyway, point buy (with a different amount of points, based on tiers) is better...

[FreakyCheeseMan]

Just the other day, I rolled a 53-point buy.

...for an NPC.

Honestly, stats seem like the weirdest things to cause internal dissent over - compared to the power differences any sort of build choices make, they seem rather minor, especially when it's the broad ones with lots of bonuses. Either you character is SAD - in which case you get a handful of minor bonuses, but everything really important to your character was just riding on one anyway - or you're MAD - in which case you're gonna suffer from only being able to advance one stat at a time through items/level bonuses, anyway.

[Felandria]

When I rolled Felandria, I got 17, 16, 16, 15, 13, 13.

A little high, but considering the halfling rogue ended up rolling rather poorly (the 5 Strength was one thing, the 7 Dexterity was just insane), it was probably for the best to keep that to balance him out.

[Curmudgeon]

Honestly, I wouldn't feel right playing any character with rolled stats. Ending up with improbably high stats, by whatever mechanism, strikes me as munchkinery. Real roleplayers use point buy. :smallwink:

[supermonkeyjoe]

Whenever I roll high stats I feel like I need to reflect it in the character in some way, either by making him have a superiority complex due to being just better than everyone, or making him be the kind of person who strives for perfection and being the best they can be.

It just feels off to me being, lets say a wizard and just saying, oh by the way I'm incredibly charismatic and buff as well as being a super-genius but I just hang back and sling spells all the time.

[ddude987]

Assuming you rolled it naturally, would you feel right about playing a character with ability scores equivalent to a 49 point buy? If you were playing in a new group, and they never saw you roll said scores, would you still go with it, or would you nerf yourself?

I rolled out a character (4d6, drop the lowest) and this is what I came up with: 20, 16, 16, 14, 12, 11. I later found out that the others didn't roll especially well. I don't know how fair this will seem.

I was already kinda worried my character would look stronger than the group. These guys really don't optimize (at all, really) or play tactically. I intentionally avoided real optimization this go-round, but I'm playing a factotum and between the class' do-everything design and my play-style, I don't know how they're going to react.

I wouldn't mind using it. Currently in one of the campaigns I'm in I have a 52 pb. 18/16/16/16/12/10

[Bubzors]

My group always rolls for stats, but we also always do it in each others presence. If you did it on your own, as a DM I would make you reroll in my presence. In general though, I would not have a problem if you rolled that fair and square. In a recent game I played I rolled an 18/16/16/14/12/11 and it did not seem to cause any real balance issues with the rest of the party

[ZamielVanWeber]

My one friend would roll a stat pan on the first "session" and have all players use that one. This only works well if you have a lot of material open, but it keeps the interesting randomness while avoiding the "my lowest rolls were two 16's."

[SowZ]

My one friend would roll a stat pan on the first "session" and have all players use that one. This only works well if you have a lot of material open, but it keeps the interesting randomness while avoiding the "my lowest rolls were two 16's."

It can, however, decrease variance in party make-up. It could encourage everyone to play a SAD class, for example. Every method has its downsides, though, and this way is more fair.

[ZamielVanWeber]

The variance issue is why it only works if you have a lot of material open. It really is a "pick your poison" issue though.

[JackRackham]

First question, how did you roll a 20 with 3d6?
On the other hand, I would definitely nerf yourself. Explain to the group that you rolled really well and would like to be more in line with their power level. Average out the scores for each member of the party, and nerf yours until you're within an acceptable range. Feel free to keep some points. You rolled well, you should still have the best stat array. It just shouldn't be in another league all-together.

Ah, right. My bad, these are level six characters. He has a headband of intellect on. That should be (was originally) an 18.

PS: I know this will have a pretty minimal effect on game balance (which is why I don't really worry about it when I DM). I'm more worried about player reaction, which is something else entirely.

[Chaosvii7]

I'm one for point buys over rolling because I don't aim to break the game. The DM I mainly play with is all about 4d6-drop-the-lowest though, so I indulge him when I play with him. Obviously, we all have to roll in front of him though, and I would expect nothing less from that.

The inherent power level of his world is however, definitely higher than that of most worlds - The best encounters we roll up are still at ACL + 1. No big deal, it puts us on our toes when we fight, but you do usually need higher stats to come out on top.

The most recent character I rolled up with him was a Pathfinder Hobgobin Druid. My rolls(organized into the stat array):

STR 15
DEX 15
CON 17
INT 10
WIS 18
CHA 12

With racial bumps, looked more like:

STR 17
DEX 17
CON 17
INT 10
WIS 18
CHA 12

Obviously this is the straw that broke my back. I don't like having unnaturally high stats because I rolled well on the dice, so I've turned more to point buys for my power. It does force you to think on your feet, nevertheless.

[The_Jackal]

Never, ever, EVER use rolling methods for character creation. Just don't do it. Its only purpose is to reward blind luck and/or cheating.

[white lancer]

We've always rolled for stats. Our DM has always been very lenient about stats and even allowed us to reroll them if we're not happy with them, so our parties tend to be pretty powerful and varied but still fairly even. Usually. In one game we have a level 19 character who somehow managed to wind up with 40 strength, 32 charisma, another stat above 20, and no stat below...13, I think. Not quite sure how he managed that (I know multiple templates/LA buyoff was involved), but our usually lenient DM is auditing his character because stats like that are ludicrous even by our standards.

[eulmanis12]

Never, ever, EVER use rolling methods for character creation. Just don't do it. Its only purpose is to reward blind luck and/or cheating.

not sure that's true, I find that it can often lead to some interesting and entertaining party dynamics. that being said this does depend on the players, and the DM is within their rights to bump up the score of someone who rolled unnaturally low.

[Slipperychicken]

Pro Tip: If you're going to get all worked up because your scores are too high or too low, rolled stats aren't for you.

[Bhaakon]

Honestly, stats seem like the weirdest things to cause internal dissent over - compared to the power differences any sort of build choices make, they seem rather minor, especially when it's the broad ones with lots of bonuses.

I don't know about that. A wide disparity in stats can be a big deal at low levels, where the spread between good and bad BAB classes is only 1 or 2, players can't afford good armor to make up for a poor Dex, and there aren't enough HD to give tanks a sizable lead in HP. Yes, the difference becomes increasingly trivial beyond level 3 or 4, but a lot of games never get that far.

Not that I'm against rolling scores, but it does leads to potential weirdness.

[Magesmiley]

If the group's standard is to roll, I'd just run with it. Some people will get good stats and others won't. Hopefully you rolled in the presence of the DM.:smallamused:

I have actually witnessed better stats rolled several times, so I wouldn't be too concerned. I think the best I've ever seen on "4d6 drop the low" was someone who rolled three 18s, padded with a 16, 13, and 12. It can happen. Take good care of the ones you get with incredible stats.

[ArcaneGlyph]

It's all in how you play. My latest cleric is a cheese master, but still doesn't overshadow the party. I used a lesser assimar and managed to have 14, 12, 14, 14, 20, 20 at level 5. I have DMM persist spell lined up for 6th level as well. yes I know I suck blah blah blah.

I do combat in the following way... stand in the back row.. Bless, Mass Aid, Bane, Spit Hammer, Hold Person then roll from there. This gives my fighters a chance to hit stuff, the mages room to cast and me time to enjoy the game. Even with DMM I plan to just buff up my AC to keep myself alive so I can keep my party alive. I like the idea of the quiet guy in the back row that practices restraint, but who can also call down the wrath of Pelor when needed.

[yougi]

In my 4e campaign, we convinced the DM to let us roll instead of point buy, and I rolled 18-18-17-16-15-9. The characters are now lv5, and he is the second to least powerful character so far. Build actually matters a lot more.

In one of the campaigns I DM, the players could roll 5d6b3 6 times or use a 32 pb, and the players all rolled, and their stats come up to the following point buy: 51, 49, 36, 28. The last one I told to instead use a 32 point buy. Because two had incredible stats, it doesn't feel as bad. Then again, the guy with the 51 PB made a Paladin, and the 49 a Favored Soul, so that balanced it out. But on the other hand, the 36 made a Warlock/Sorcerer/Eldritch Theurge, and the 28/32 made a Fighter/Order of the Bow Initiate, so they all used pretty... unoptimized builds.