The Death Star Explosion - An inside job?

[Cikomyr]

I thought I would post this here. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dvv-Yib1Xg)

The evidence is quite strong, I have to say. Odd coincidence, don't you think?

[Hopeless]

I thought I would post this here. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dvv-Yib1Xg)

The evidence is quite strong, I have to say. Odd coincidence, don't you think?

Oh my god that was beautifully done all you need was to mention the presence of an aging Rebel Sympathiser and member of an near extinct religious cult who recruited Anakin himself into the same cult before they were wiped out after a failed coup attempt countered by Anakin himself and then reveal Anakin's former master may have planted the device used to blow up the Death Star himself and in the witnessed faked duel that followed allowed himself to be killed by Anakin to cover up the escape of Anakin's kids... oh wow any chance of a sequel?

[Cikomyr]

Oh my god that was beautifully done all you need was to mention the presence of an aging Rebel Sympathiser and member of an near extinct religious cult who recruited Anakin himself into the same cult before they were wiped out after a failed coup attempt countered by Anakin himself and then reveal Anakin's former master may have planted the device used to blow up the Death Star himself and in the witnessed faked duel that followed allowed himself to be killed by Anakin to cover up the escape of Anakin's kids... oh wow any chance of a sequel?

How about the Millenium Falcon's owner eventually marrying Leia?

[Manga Shoggoth]

That was really well thought out. And fun. And I badly needed fun this evening.

[Tavar]

Main issue I have is there are a number of really obvious factual errors(the attack run attributed to Wedge, Vader being in command of the station), but overall it was fun.

[Cikomyr]

Main issue I have is there are a number of really obvious factual errors(the attack run attributed to Wedge, Vader being in command of the station), but overall it was fun.

Wait a minute. Are you saying that conspiracy theories documentaries have... *GASP* factual errors in them?!?! :smalleek::smalleek:


http://img.hsmagazine.net/2012/11/d83fa747_1157.darth_vader_nooooooo.gif

[Tavar]

Wait a minute. Are you saying that conspiracy theories documentaries have... *GASP* factual errors in them?!?! :smalleek::smalleek:


There are errors in interpretation, and then errors in facts. The former is something Conspiracy theories contain. The latter is something very bad ones contain, as it automatically pokes holes in the theory.

[Cikomyr]

Still. Wedge Antilles wasn't a veteran at the time anyway, if I remember right. He's just one of the only named pilote of that battle.

The guy who mentioned "its impossible" WAS a veteran. The guy who tried shooting the torpedoes WAS a wing leader.


As for Vader being in command; I agree it's a mistake. However, Vader was still the Emperor's personal representative and was the senior official on the scene. Had he needed to, couldn't he have taken command from Tarkin?

[The Glyphstone]

Tarkin was a Grand Moff. I'm pretty sure he officially outranked Vader, though that's like outranking a rabid dog on a leash, you can at best hope it likes the orders you give and agrees to follow them.

[Cikomyr]

Grand Moffs and Moffs are political leaders, if I remember right? So the Death Star wasn't considered to be part of the Imperial Fleet?

Technically, Tarkin was the Death Star's governor. The Death Star's military commander would have been.. Darth Vader..?

[Douglas]

Wedge being the guy who took the first (failed) shot is a factual error, but not really a significant one. The person who did take that shot was also a trained and experienced fighter pilot, which is the detail that's relevant to the point the conspiracy theorist is making.

As for Vader not being in command, he may not have officially been the commander of the station, but he was present, fully in the loop, and had the authority to take over command any time he wanted to. Tarkin was the commander in name only; Vader was the actual top link in the chain of command.

[Traab]

Tarkin was a Grand Moff. I'm pretty sure he officially outranked Vader, though that's like outranking a rabid dog on a leash, you can at best hope it likes the orders you give and agrees to follow them.

I thought Vadar was basically, Vice Emperor or something to that effect. Maybe not officially, but as the supreme ruler of the galaxies personal apprentice, I would imagine that holds enough power to basically give him more options than, "Do as I say or I will force choke you till your head pops off!" Of course, thinking back on the movie, doesnt tarkin order vadar to stop murdering the idiot who insisted on insulting vadars training in the Force? (Seriously, that guy needed to die)

[McStabbington]

I'm still not convinced. Why would the Empire lie to us?

[Tvtyrant]

I thought Vadar was basically, Vice Emperor or something to that effect. Maybe not officially, but as the supreme ruler of the galaxies personal apprentice, I would imagine that holds enough power to basically give him more options than, "Do as I say or I will force choke you till your head pops off!" Of course, thinking back on the movie, doesnt tarkin order vadar to stop murdering the idiot who insisted on insulting vadars training in the Force? (Seriously, that guy needed to die)

I always assumed he headed the secret police myself... Which would allow him to take control for "imperial security" reasons.

[Mando Knight]

Vader's rank was as Supreme Commander (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Supreme_Commander_%28Empire%29). Apparently he was serving merely as Palpatine's observer on the Death Star, not serving as its commanding officer.

[Closet_Skeleton]

Leia was never in charge of the Rebel Alliance, Mon Mothma was.

[OracleofWuffing]

:smallconfused: That's not how I remember the Death Star getting destroyed (http://i.imgur.com/Q65MZHz.gif).

[Hiro Protagonest]

Leia was never in charge of the Rebel Alliance, Mon Mothma was.

Mon Mothma? Who's that? The guy in charge of the rebels was Bail Organa. Unless that's his title.

[Tavar]

Mon Mothma? Who's that? The guy in charge of the rebels was Bail Organa. Unless that's his title.

Bail Organa kinda sorta died earlier in the movie...

Mon Mothma was the female politician(most notable in the Return of the Jedi).

[Devonix]

Mon Mothma? Who's that? The guy in charge of the rebels was Bail Organa. Unless that's his title.

Yeah Bail Organa was a high ranking member but Mon Mothma was the one in charge.

She was in Return of the Jedi and afterwards became the Chief of State of the New Republic

[Jallorn]

The Rebel Alliance was founded by a trifecta, Mon Mothma, Bail Organa, and Garm Bel Iblis. Garm left after a while because of strategic differences, though he made no attempt (afaik) to pull supporters from the Alliance because he recognized it's value, and Bail died on Alderaan when it blew up (shortly after they had voted to reverse their pacifist policies to support the Alliance, there's timing for you), leaving Mon Mothma as the sole political leader of the Alliance, though she was, by no means, the kind of totalitarian leader the Empire had.

[Devonix]

I thought Vadar was basically, Vice Emperor or something to that effect. Maybe not officially, but as the supreme ruler of the galaxies personal apprentice, I would imagine that holds enough power to basically give him more options than, "Do as I say or I will force choke you till your head pops off!" Of course, thinking back on the movie, doesnt tarkin order vadar to stop murdering the idiot who insisted on insulting vadars training in the Force? (Seriously, that guy needed to die)

Yeah Tarkin outranked Vader he was pretty much the only military guy that was higher than him.

[hamishspence]

The guy who mentioned "its impossible" WAS a veteran.

In the book, it was Wedge who said "that's impossible, even for a computer"

I think the guy in the film who said it was supposed to be Wedge- but there were some changes as to who plays who- and it ended up being someone other than Denis Lawson saying it.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wedge_Antilles


In the film, Antilles was played by two actors: Colin Higgins and Denis Lawson, but both British actors were dubbed with the voice of American David Ankrum. Higgins portrayed Antilles during the Death Star briefing scene, but Lawson played the character in the battle scenes and was the actor credited in the role.[131] Higgins, used to television acting practices, had not memorized his lines, of which the Antilles character originally had several, closely and grew increasingly nervous and dispirited as he struggled during shooting. After one day of shooting, he was fired.[180] Lawson, who had originally been passed for the role in favor of Higgins, was brought in.[181] Fan confusion over Higgins's uncredited turn as the so-called "Fake Wedge," with many thinking Jack Klaff had been the mystery man playing Antilles, was only resolved in 2005 when Pablo Hidalgo researched the original production reports and confirmed that Higgins had been "Fake Wedge."

[Cikomyr]

In the book, it was Wedge who said "that's impossible, even for a computer"

I think the guy in the film who said it was supposed to be Wedge- but there were some changes as to who plays who- and it ended up being someone other than Denis Lawson saying it.
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Wedge_Antilles

This is arguing specifics that I think make us lose the big picture.

A rebel veteran pilot (who cares who it is) did said the shot was "impossible". And yet, Anakin Skywalker's son (a.k.a. Darth Vader) supposedly "did it".

Inside job I say.

[hamishspence]

As for Vader not being in command, he may not have officially been the commander of the station, but he was present, fully in the loop, and had the authority to take over command any time he wanted to. Tarkin was the commander in name only; Vader was the actual top link in the chain of command.

The actual commander of the station was Admiral Motti (the guy who's insulting to Vader)- Tarkin was the political person issuing commands to the military person.

According to The Rise & Fall of Darth Vader, while Vader normally takes orders only from Palpatine, Palpatine had instructed him to obey Tarkin while on the Death Star.

[Kyberwulf]

I always thought, that Vadar just sort of showed up on the Death Star just to drop off the prisoner. In that case it doesn't matter who he is, he wasn't given orders to actually assume command of the "ship." So in that case he had to take orders from the highest ranking officer of that ship, unless it actually conflicted with previous orders from Palpatine himself. Besides, I don't think he was actually going to kill the guy. Just wanted to show off the power of his religion >.>' He doesn't actually kill people until he is on his own ship.

Vadar could have assumed Leadership of the Death Star. I would think that would send the message to His lord that he was challenging his leadership. >.>

[Cikomyr]

I always thought, that Vadar just sort of showed up on the Death Star just to drop off the prisoner. In that case it doesn't matter who he is, he wasn't given orders to actually assume command of the "ship." So in that case he had to take orders from the highest ranking officer of that ship, unless it actually conflicted with previous orders from Palpatine himself. Besides, I don't think he was actually going to kill the guy. Just wanted to show off the power of his religion >.>' He doesn't actually kill people until he is on his own ship.

Vadar could have assumed Leadership of the Death Star. I would think that would send the message to His lord that he was challenging his leadership. >.>

I think it was more about punishing someone who talked back at him disrespectfully and was citing a list of Vader's recent failures. Vader just wanted to rub his nose so he wouldn't do it again.

[hamishspence]

"Never attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity" is a common counter to conspiracy theories.

"The designer of the Death Star was a secret Rebel who put in the Thermal Exhaust Port Flaw on purpose" would be an example of "blaming malice"

"The designers were simply incompetent and didn't put in appropriate safeguards" would be an example of "blaming stupidity".

[Cikomyr]

"Never attribute to malice what can be explained by stupidity" is a common counter to conspiracy theories.

"The designer of the Death Star was a secret Rebel who put in the Thermal Exhaust Port Flaw on purpose" would be an example of "blaming malice"

"The designers were simply incompetent and didn't put in appropriate safeguards" would be an example of "blaming stupidity".

Actually, I think the case made was that the Thermal Exhaust Port Flaw was just an excuse. The Death Star was actually destroyed by the saboteurs Darth Vader led unboard previously, who freed his daughter and whom he deliberately let go.

Everything else was a charade put up by Leia and Luke to have them become the acclaimed leaders of the Rebel Alliance, so the Skywalker Family would control both sides of the conflict.

[Hopeless]

Who knew enough about the Death Star's construction to be able to pinpoint where the Rebels' had to hit to take the station out?

Odd it took the least skilled pilot of all those gathered to defend Yavin that pulled that shot off... almost as if someone arranged for a device to guide those missiles down that exhaust vent directly to the target... exactly whose actions whilst aboard wasn't tracked whilst the others waged a firefight all the way back from the security centre where a certain Princess Leia was being held?

Whose to say he didn't have Luke tune those torpedoes to follow a specific frequency so they'd hit with pinpoint accuracy and absolutely no chance of missing?

[Cikomyr]

Who knew enough about the Death Star's construction to be able to pinpoint where the Rebels' had to hit to take the station out?

Odd it took the least skilled pilot of all those gathered to defend Yavin that pulled that shot off... almost as if someone arranged for a device to guide those missiles down that exhaust vent directly to the target... exactly whose actions whilst aboard wasn't tracked whilst the others waged a firefight all the way back from the security centre where a certain Princess Leia was being held?

Whose to say he didn't have Luke tune those torpedoes to follow a specific frequency so they'd hit with pinpoint accuracy and absolutely no chance of missing?

You mean, the same person who actually TRAINED Anakin Skywalker and whose close friendship was largely documented?

Also, Darth Vader reported killing Obi-wan Kenobi, but no medical expert actually properly and legally identified the body. Vader reported that the body "disappeared out of thin air". Is it me, or the story becomes fishier and fishier?


... wait a minute. Luke Skywalker also de-activated his targetting computer just before he shot the torpedoes. That means the Rebel Control had no monitoring of his exact activities at the time. It would fit your "special frequency tracker" theory; he wanted to hide using inside information!!!


IT ALL MAKE SENSE NOW

[Aotrs Commander]

Dammit! I knew they shoulda never trusted Vader!

I bet he was somehow behind Admiral Zaarin's little coup as well, making sure his biggest competitor Thrawn (after he'd already gotten rid of Prince Xizor) - and making sure all the really advanced TIE Fighters that would have slaughtered the rebel at Endor were off somewhere else!

It damn well worked too, didn't it? Since Princess Leia managed to fight her way to being in charge of the "New Republic!"

And this is why the Emperor was totally right with Order 66. You can't trust Jedi; even the supposed ex-Jedi are dirty traitors!



[/rabid imperial loyalist]

[D_Lord]

Shouldn't we care more about something else that could have helped the Death Star to Explodes, something that has years of military experience, something that could have studied the plans for days, something that was inside it's systems and proven it could hack in. R2-D2 one of the few droids that hasn't been minory wiped for before the clone wars. This little doid knows how Ankain fly's and could have put an extra twist on Luke's missiles.

[Cikomyr]

Shouldn't we care more about something else that could have helped the Death Star to Explodes, something that has years of military experience, something that could have studied the plans for days, something that was inside it's systems and proven it could hack in. R2-D2 one of the few droids that hasn't been minory wiped for before the clone wars. This little doid knows how Ankain fly's and could have put an extra twist on Luke's missiles.

Actually... now that I think of it, outside of the whole "conspiracy theory" joke..

Do you think it's possible R2D2 was sabotaging Luke's efforts to shoot at the thermal exhaust port? And only Vader's shooting of R2 allowed him to be able to finally take a shot?

Or.. Or thinking again about the Inside Job, maybe we should consider that Vader destroyed R2 for the same reason Luke turned off his targeting computer - to leave no record.

Yhea. Luke never destroyed the Death Star. I knew it was a fake.

[jedipilot24]

Here are two (http://www.debunking911.com/questions.htm)more (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaB-CRFPHxY) videos with more evidence.

Now sigged.