Profession: money maker?

[GutterFace]

So i recently got into a debate in 3.5 with someone and i was wondering i can get some help to have it cleared up.

If i take Profession Miner and invest full ranks by level...i swear i read somewhere that having a profession with mining lets you dig/tunnel faster (more cubic feet per day) than someone without the profession?

truth? old age robbing my memory?

also - as a Miner what are my chances per week of mining to get precious metal ore? and or gems? or both?

how would you all as DM's roll this?

[Zero grim]

Why it is the humble kobold who holds the power over mining, the information you seek is races of the dragon, page 98.

as a DM I probably wouldn't have my adventurers digging for gold, but if i had to give a value to it if make it a 0.1% per 5ft gives you a chance of running into veins of gold, or id just have you crack into a den of underground beasties guarding a pocket of gems as a random mining encounter.

If you were an NPC id say your chance of running into Ores would be about 1% per week modified by the community modifier, or 1% a month whichever gives the highest odds for any given place, the ore would be worth the maximum sell value of the settlement size.

that would be a fair amount I think. (obviously the chance to run into ore if you are kobolds increases to 101%)

[tyckspoon]

If you are a solo miner, you acquire salable ores equal to the result of your Profession: Mining check each week. This is exactly the same amount of money you would make with any other profession, as per the standard Profession rules. If you are operating a larger mine, find some 'running a business' rules you like (DMGII has some, but they're kind of horrible) and use those to determine your profits. Finding a new vein/unusually large nugget/gemstone stuck among your normal rocks/etc is simply reflected as a particularly lucky profession/profit check for that time period.

[GutterFace]

Interesting. sounds reasonable.

i was going against the guidelines of the Craft/Profession weekly workload.

under employment for said craft of profession is 1/2 check in Gp per week.

i was trying to circumvent this by not working for someone but finding my own gold/gems/metals of value...

hmmmm

ill have to try some sort of flim-flammery

[GutterFace]

If you are a solo miner, you acquire salable ores equal to the result of your Profession: Mining check each week. This is exactly the same amount of money you would make with any other profession, as per the standard Profession rules. If you are operating a larger mine, find some 'running a business' rules you like (DMGII has some, but they're kind of horrible) and use those to determine your profits. Finding a new vein/unusually large nugget/gemstone stuck among your normal rocks/etc is simply reflected as a particularly lucky profession/profit check for that time period.

as i was typing my last response you came in with this. thanks for the point in the right direction!

[awa]

dmg 2 businesses rules are not the right direction they are horrible with insane start up costs and low payoff

[UnjustCustos]

While they are horrible I do believe that someone broke them at one point too, finding out why Walmart makes so much money opening large places in the middle of no where. I am unable to find the link right now but the math behind it was crazy and it turned into a just avalanche of income. Like most things, a single business struggles but a corporation thrives.

[ArcturusV]

Of course the way to circumvent this is to also have something like: Craft(Weaponsmith) or Craft(Stonemason) or something.

So, you dig up X materials for a week of mining. Say Ore equal to your check result. Presume you are, I dunno, a third level character. 10+6+2 or so for a reasonable character. So 9 GP of stone per day for example. Considering stone is dirt cheap (Free by price lists, but lets be reasonable), that's a lot of stone.

Then you take something like Craft (Stonemason), and build a simple house with the buttload of Stone you mined out, next week. You could easily make a very small hose, more like a shotgun shack or something.

Then you sell the house for an inflated price as buildings tend to be a lot more expensive than just the cost of the materials. 1d4 x 100 GP is the listed price in Cityscape for buying a Cheap Apartment, which is effectively what such a shanty would be.

Now given free time, say a few months, what you can end up doing is taking a plot of land somewhere... look for a location with stone available (Anywhere really), and access to some water (Simple stream or spring in the hills). Spend an adventure to "Pacify" the terrain, wiping out wolves and maybe Goblins. Spend a couple of months mining and building. You now have a small hamlet worth of buildings to sell off to some people looking for a new life. And you turned your 9 GP/week result into an easy 400-1600 GP sale.

Plus it's a way for you to have an asset as "Founder of a village" or something which can be fun.

[tyckspoon]

While they are horrible I do believe that someone broke them at one point too, finding out why Walmart makes so much money opening large places in the middle of no where. I am unable to find the link right now but the math behind it was crazy and it turned into a just avalanche of income. Like most things, a single business struggles but a corporation thrives.

I don't remember the exact best way to do it, but it's based on abusing the 'upgrade your business' option, whereby you can invest a portion of the business's initial startup costs in order to permanently increase its profitability (it also helps if you can jack your relevant Profession or other skill through the roof to make sure you can't ever fail a profit check.) Building in the Wilderness gives you the lowest capital costs, thus making it cheaper to reinvest in it (it also gives a hefty penalty to profit checks, but that's why you wear a +30 widget of Excellent Innkeeping or whatever while you run the business.)

For example.. a Low Capital cost business costs 500 GP to start in a Wilderness location. It costs 16,000 GP to start one in a Metropolis. The Metropolis location enjoys a +14 profit-check bonus over the Wilderness guy, which means he's going to have to be really good at what he does to avoid losing all his money on that business.. but if he is good enough, for the difference in startup costs he can reinvest in his business 124 times. That's an average of 310 extra profit factor he's bringing in (incidentally, the money he'll make on that in one month, if he has a High Risk business, is.. 15,500, thus paying him back his total investment. In a single month's profit.) He'll be making money the Metropolis guy could never *dream* of. All that takes is steadily putting a small amount of money into his business over the course of about 3 and a half years. Longer than adventurers like to take with things, yes, but that's an absurdly successful business by any normal person's standards.

[ZamielVanWeber]

dmg 2 businesses rules are not the right direction they are horrible with insane start up costs and low payoff

That makes them accurate to real world businesses. It take a business years to experience any net profit because of startup costs vs gross profit, to say nothing of daily costs.

[Flickerdart]

Of course the way to circumvent this is to also have something like: Craft(Weaponsmith) or Craft(Stonemason) or something.

So, you dig up X materials for a week of mining. Say Ore equal to your check result. Presume you are, I dunno, a third level character. 10+6+2 or so for a reasonable character. So 9 GP of stone per day for example. Considering stone is dirt cheap (Free by price lists, but lets be reasonable), that's a lot of stone.

Then you take something like Craft (Stonemason), and build a simple house with the buttload of Stone you mined out, next week. You could easily make a very small hose, more like a shotgun shack or something.

Then you sell the house for an inflated price as buildings tend to be a lot more expensive than just the cost of the materials. 1d4 x 100 GP is the listed price in Cityscape for buying a Cheap Apartment, which is effectively what such a shanty would be.

Now given free time, say a few months, what you can end up doing is taking a plot of land somewhere... look for a location with stone available (Anywhere really), and access to some water (Simple stream or spring in the hills). Spend an adventure to "Pacify" the terrain, wiping out wolves and maybe Goblins. Spend a couple of months mining and building. You now have a small hamlet worth of buildings to sell off to some people looking for a new life. And you turned your 9 GP/week result into an easy 400-1600 GP sale.

Plus it's a way for you to have an asset as "Founder of a village" or something which can be fun.
There's a big difference between "cheap apartment" and "pile of stone in the middle of nowhere".

[ArcturusV]

Well... no mention of it being furnished that I saw. Between mining and being a stonemason it'd be quite possible to make a stone and mortar building. Or I suppose mining Clay and having a related craft feat to make something like Adobe Homes.

Course the real trick is getting people to move out there. Which is setting and opportunity specific. But by no means impossible. Could even be as simple as dealing with people who need to lay low for some reason. Or choosing a location that would have been settled if not for an inconvenient Goblin Encampment nearby, etc.

At the very least? If I was DMing and someone approached me with a project like that I'd allow it. Carries a lot of plot hooks. And the effort to reward isn't so lopsided that I might have to smack someone compared to much more heinous schemes I've seen.

Like the guy who wanted to take Leadership to get a free 2000 GP per week, by presuming his Followers were all trained in a craft and were working as his slaves, without needing any payment.

Which is a good piece of advice, by the by. If your scheme to get rich involves potential plot hooks (Make up ones that aren't going to be a pain in the ass for you in particular), more likely for a DM to bite on it.

[Kirgoth]

With Take 10
Profession earns (Skill + 10 )/2 GP per week
So Miner 10 earns 10GP per week (10+10)/2
Miner 20 earns 15GP per week (20+10)/2


Artisan earns (Skill + 10) * (Skill + 10) * 2/3 (one third in materials) sp per week, assuming you choose an item with a DC = Skill + 10

So Artist 10 earns (10+10) * 20DC artwork * 2/3 = 26.6 GP per week
Artist 20 earns (20+10) * 20DC artwork done quick for DC30 * 2/3 = 60 GP per week.

Perform earns max 73.5 GP per week average at DC30

There are a few feats which can help out, if you are going to waste feats on money making. Overall I would rate artisan the best earner.