Archetype: Wandering blind swordsman

[GrumblyBear]

Obviously being permanently "Blinded" as a PC is less than desirable... Is there a work around here?

[Aegis013]

Alternate senses, like mindsight or touchsight.

If you get a psicrystal you can use it as your eye.

[GrumblyBear]

Wait, really? Psicrystals can be used as eyes?

[Vaz]

There's a Blindfold of True Sight (A+EG), which gives 60' Darkvision, and immunity to Gaze attacks. For 9,000gp, it's a decent buy, considering you couldn't see anyway, there's no loss.

[Shining Wrath]

Blindfighting feat comes to mind. From D20SRD:

Blind-Fight [General]
Benefit

In melee, every time you miss because of concealment, you can reroll your miss chance percentile roll one time to see if you actually hit.

An invisible attacker gets no advantages related to hitting you in melee. That is, you don’t lose your Dexterity bonus to Armor Class, and the attacker doesn’t get the usual +2 bonus for being invisible. The invisible attacker’s bonuses do still apply for ranged attacks, however.

You take only half the usual penalty to speed for being unable to see. Darkness and poor visibility in general reduces your speed to three-quarters normal, instead of one-half.
Normal

Regular attack roll modifiers for invisible attackers trying to hit you apply, and you lose your Dexterity bonus to AC. The speed reduction for darkness and poor visibility also applies.
Special

The Blind-Fight feat is of no use against a character who is the subject of a blink spell.

A fighter may select Blind-Fight as one of his fighter bonus feats.

That reduces the penalties of blindness by 50%, roughly speaking. Then you need to talk to your DM about some sort of "Daredevil" special hearing.

[GrumblyBear]

Hmm. The Touchsight power and the mention of Darkvision brings up a side thought for me... What's generally considered the range of sight for a non-blind PC? Touchsight goes out to 60 ft (non-augmented) and Darkvision normally has a range attached to it.

It makes me curious how much of a disadvantage my character would be at as far as... Well, not spot checks, obviously... But "Sense" checks, I suppose.

[A_S]

If you have access to magic or custom magic items that grant spell effects, the Listening Lorecall grants sound-based blindsense or blindsight based on your ranks in Listen. Good flavor. Can probably get by with Blind Fight at lower levels.

From an RP perspective, this makes sense...fighting more competently than your average blind guy, but still being hindered by your lack of sight, seems like a low-level ability to me, while being able to completely overcome your difficulty and hear so well it's like you can still see is the kind of nigh-supernatural trick that should take a few levels to master.

[GrumblyBear]

Blindfighting feat comes to mind.

I always forget about Blindfighting! I've never taken it on any of my PCs, haha... Good suggestion, thanks!

[Waddacku]

The Hearing the Air stance from Tome of Battle gives 30' blindsense and +5 to Listen checks, but it's a fifth level stance.

[GrumblyBear]

Listening Lorecall grants sound-based blindsense or blindsight based on your ranks in Listen.

That's an awesome RP opportunity... Thanks for the suggestion!



The Hearing the Air stance from Tome of Battle gives 30' blindsense and +5 to Listen checks, but it's a fifth level stance.

Ooh... Do you think that would be worth buying with a "Martial Study" feat? Actually, my character build is really up in the air right now... A Swordsage or Warblade could fit the bill well, thus negating the burning of a feat...

[Greenish]

Ooh... Do you think that would be worth buying with a "Martial Study" feat? Actually, my character build is really up in the air right now... A Swordsage or Warblade could fit the bill well, thus negating the burning of a feat...You could get it with Martial Stance feat, though you would need IL 9 (so, level 18 for non-initiator) and the prerequisite two Diamond Mind maneuvers.

On the other hand, Blind-Fight is a Warblade bonus feat. Just sayin'.

On the gripping hand, by the time you get there, restoration magic will have become easily affordable, so it's rather weird that one wouldn't take advantage of it.

[lord_khaine]

Ooh... Do you think that would be worth buying with a "Martial Study" feat? Actually, my character build is really up in the air right now... A Swordsage or Warblade could fit the bill well, thus negating the burning of a feat...

You would need to be lv 18 to pick it up though martial study, so i would say taking levels in swordsage is the only realistic solution.

Still, even with hearing the air and blindfighting you have a 25% miss chance, something thats rather annoying.

If you want to avoid this, then the best solution i can find would be a Ardent/something else like monk, swordsage or warblade (or all 3, worked great last time i did it :smalltongue:)

You would then have to rely on your psicrystal to be the generel "spotter" that guides you around, and tells you when to activate your touchsigh, so you can suddenly feal everything around you in a 60 feet radius.

[Shining Wrath]

You could get it with Martial Stance feat, though you would need IL 9 (so, level 18 for non-initiator) and the prerequisite two Diamond Mind maneuvers.

On the other hand, Blind-Fight is a Warblade bonus feat. Just sayin'.

On the gripping hand, by the time you get there, restoration magic will have become easily affordable, so it's rather weird that one wouldn't take advantage of it.

He's going for the archtype, though. You can't be a archtypical blind fighter and not be blind.

I think the archtype fits Warblade best ... the "I and my blade are one" fighting class. Sword sages are more monk-like.

[Greenish]

He's going for the archtype, though. You can't be a archtypical blind fighter and not be blind.Yes, but how does that make sense from an IC perspective?

"Oh, no thanks, I don't want to have my sight restore, I'm an archetype, don'tcha know!"

[Shining Wrath]

Yes, but how does that make sense from an IC perspective?

"Oh, no thanks, I don't want to have my sight restore, I'm an archetype, don'tcha know!"

Sacrificed his vision to [X] in return for the gift of [Y]. Work with the DM here, but Odin got divination for only one eye. If it's still a good deal, or he doesn't want to admit he made a bad deal, or he's just too used to not seeing, he might not want the restoration.

[Deadline]

And now for another exciting episode of, Psionics Does it Better!

Synesthete - Level 1 Psion, Wilder, and Psionic Warrior power. It lets you use your alternate senses to see (and hear) even if you are blind (or deaf).

[Psyren]

As others have said, psionics is the best way to pull this off. Synesthete lets you do it as early as 1st level, though duration can be an issue so you may want to save this ability for combat. Your psicrystal can indeed be used to help you see, because psicrystals can see perfectly (even in total darkness) and, unlike familiars, can actually talk in your head to tell you what they're looking at rather than simply sending empathic feelings like "fear" or "danger." You're still slightly at your DM's whims here though, because how your psicrystal tells you would still be dependent on its personality, which is always exaggerated. (Remind your DM though that a psicrystal's personality is also based on a facet of your own.)

At later levels you'll have access to abilities like Mindsight and Touchsight, as well as having the power points needed to basically have Synesthete running 24/7. At this point, you can effectively turn off your blindness whenever it would be a hindrance, and you'll also have senses far better than most of the sighted people in the party.

[Essence_of_War]

See if you can beg/borrow/cajole the DM into letting the manifesting time on synesthete be a swift action so it doesn't hamstring you too much in combat.

That actually seems kind of interesting. You suffer all of the usual blind penalties until you go into hyper-mode and turn your synesthesia on. If your DM is nice, it should let you surprise some people :smallsmile:

[Fates]

There's a Blindfold of True Sight (A+EG), which gives 60' Darkvision, and immunity to Gaze attacks. For 9,000gp, it's a decent buy, considering you couldn't see anyway, there's no loss.

As I recall, the Blindfold of (True?) Darkness (MiC) does basically the same thing, but blindsight instead of darkvision- which is about infinitely better.

[ExtravagantEvil]

He's going for the archtype, though. You can't be a archtypical blind fighter and not be blind.

I think the archtype fits Warblade best ... the "I and my blade are one" fighting class. Sword sages are more monk-like.


Yes, but how does that make sense from an IC perspective?

"Oh, no thanks, I don't want to have my sight restore, I'm an archetype, don'tcha know!"


To Slightly defend Shining Wrath;'s sentiment. Some characters would want to see their eyesight restored, as it is a major portion of their development, but not all.

I came up with a character based on this premise in the past, the willing blind swordsman. Sadly it is yet to be implemented, but something I plan to at one point.
Specifically: An Orc.
Well, what ever "Proud Savage Warrior Race", that your setting uses works well for this.

The premise of the character is based on the idea that Eyes are the Windows to the Soul.

To be able to see your enemy, to know he cowers before you, lets you observe him, to stare into his eyes at the killing blow you make. It gives you a moment to peer into his soul, and to know your foe truly. By knowing him, there is a chance for weakness, for hesitance. Worse yet, for this character, there is a chance, a quiver, of Empathy.
This empathy, in his culture, would be a sign of a warrior's weakness, and therefore, the character blinds themselves so as to strengthen themselves spiritually, to disconnect form Empathy.
Whether the basic of "closing their eyes", to "forcibly carve with a knife".


I would have to say that Psychic Warrior would be the safest bet, and possibly take Practiced Manifester so you can Multiclass around and still have your durations scale well enough, and eventually hop back in enough to be able to do the Psionic answer to Extending it.

Psychic Warrior 1/Melee Class(es) X/Psychic Warrior Y/Prestige Class(es) Z
Since Psychic Warrior gives you a Bonus Feat regardless it makes sense to take it so that you can still focus on your melee ability.

[Averis Vol]

Iirc there's a feat called hear the unseen (CAd?) that let's you pinpoint your target with a listen check. Might be of some help to you.

[GrumblyBear]

Awesome, thanks for all the help, guys. It sounds like Psionics is definitely the way to go, with Synesthete and a Psicrystal making up for the "disability."


ExtravagantEvil, I really like your RP take on it. That could be really interesting to play.

[Shining Wrath]

To Slightly defend Shining Wrath;'s sentiment. Some characters would want to see their eyesight restored, as it is a major portion of their development, but not all.

I came up with a character based on this premise in the past, the willing blind swordsman. Sadly it is yet to be implemented, but something I plan to at one point.
Specifically: An Orc.
Well, what ever "Proud Savage Warrior Race", that your setting uses works well for this.

The premise of the character is based on the idea that Eyes are the Windows to the Soul.

To be able to see your enemy, to know he cowers before you, lets you observe him, to stare into his eyes at the killing blow you make. It gives you a moment to peer into his soul, and to know your foe truly. By knowing him, there is a chance for weakness, for hesitance. Worse yet, for this character, there is a chance, a quiver, of Empathy.
This empathy, in his culture, would be a sign of a warrior's weakness, and therefore, the character blinds themselves so as to strengthen themselves spiritually, to disconnect form Empathy.
Whether the basic of "closing their eyes", to "forcibly carve with a knife".


I would have to say that Psychic Warrior would be the safest bet, and possibly take Practiced Manifester so you can Multiclass around and still have your durations scale well enough, and eventually hop back in enough to be able to do the Psionic answer to Extending it.

Psychic Warrior 1/Melee Class(es) X/Psychic Warrior Y/Prestige Class(es) Z
Since Psychic Warrior gives you a Bonus Feat regardless it makes sense to take it so that you can still focus on your melee ability.

That's almost a religious reason: We, the members of the Bad Tribe of Bad Barbarians, do not look into the eyes of our victims, lest their weakness taint us.

[Greenish]

To Slightly defend Shining Wrath;'s sentiment. Some characters would want to see their eyesight restored, as it is a major portion of their development, but not all. I'm not saying you can't do it, I'm saying that for any character beyond the lowest levels, being blind is a choice, for which there has to be a reason, and that "it's an archetype" isn't an IC reason to remain blind.

[ExtravagantEvil]

Awesome, thanks for all the help, guys. It sounds like Psionics is definitely the way to go, with Synesthete and a Psicrystal making up for the "disability."

ExtravagantEvil, I really like your RP take on it. That could be really interesting to play.

I'm glad that you appreciate my justifications for it :smallsmile:, something else I find interesting about it is that, by closing himself off visually from the world it's a form of staying highly reserved, for others cannot know him at a truer level.

But Psionics does seem like the smartest move, along with buffing Listen (Since Spot is now out of the Equation).


That's almost a religious reason: We, the members of the Bad Tribe of Bad Barbarians, do not look into the eyes of our victims, lest their weakness taint us.

Interesting idea, I like it, and could make an interesting culture of soldiers.
The idea specifically behind the example I gave also justifies the wandering Swordsman aspect of the thing, because it is also, due to being an adventurer among other justifications, allows him to Wander, test his mettle and grow strong and distant enough and cold blooded enough to return home.

Almost like the Anti-samurai Jack I suppose...

[Shining Wrath]

I'm not saying you can't do it, I'm saying that for any character beyond the lowest levels, being blind is a choice, for which there has to be a reason, and that "it's an archetype" isn't an IC reason to remain blind.

I think we're in violent agreement :smallsmile: He wants the archetype, but to have the archetype in a magic-rich world requires motivation. Religion, or a penance for guilt, or a trade made with a demon / deity for some other ability, or a massive distrust of all healers / casters, or ...

[Vaz]

As I recall, the Blindfold of (True?) Darkness (MiC) does basically the same thing, but blindsight instead of darkvision- which is about infinitely better.

Think i might have remembered it incorrectly. I believe that is either the updated version of the Blindfold. I could not remember if MIC had it or not but i knew the AEG had it.

[Psyren]

I think we're in violent agreement :smallsmile: He wants the archetype, but to have the archetype in a magic-rich world requires motivation. Religion, or a penance for guilt, or a trade made with a demon / deity for some other ability, or a massive distrust of all healers / casters, or ...

Given that I wouldn't remotely consider a disadvantage like this for one of my characters unless I got something in return for it (a feat at a minimum), I would say the trade/pact angle is the most credible/acceptable from both a game and story standpoint.

[Rhaegar14]

Well, so far as justifying remaining blind, let's look at a real-world example: Mike May.

Mike May, at age three, was blinded in a chemical explosion. Despite being blind, the man was athletic and played numerous sports in high school. He went on to become a world-class skier, as well as learning to skydive and windsurf. He's won medals for blind downhill speed skiing. He's also a successful businessman.

However, in his forties, a new surgical technique became available that was able to repair Mike's eyesight, and he became able to see again out one eye.

But the visual centers of Mike's brain were severely underdeveloped, and he had about the same visual acuity as an infant. Being able to see actually impeded him in a lot of tasks; he found, for instance, skiing to be much easier when he closed his eyes.

So, a swordsman who has been blind for most of his life (or at least, for most of the time he's spent as a swordsman) might voluntarily choose to stay blind because sight interferes with his combat ability.

[lord_khaine]

I'm not saying you can't do it, I'm saying that for any character beyond the lowest levels, being blind is a choice, for which there has to be a reason, and that "it's an archetype" isn't an IC reason to remain blind.

A reason for why he stays blind is really not that hard to come up with, maybe its a wound inflicted by a cursed weapon that cannot be cured by magic?

Or maybe its a defect he is born with?

[GrumblyBear]

Honestly, I'm not looking to completely optimize the character. I just figured it's an interesting RP angle and I was hoping to find a way to make it work (without complete DM handwaving).

I understand it's not the best way to generate a PC... I just thought it could be fun to play and a nice break from my usual (moderately) min/max characters.

[Gavinfoxx]

Ask for these feats as completely free bonus feats:

Blind-Fight
Blindsight 5-foot Radius
Hear The Unseen
Wild Talent
Focused Perception

And you'll end up sucking a little less. But regardless... blindness is a HUUUUGE handicap. HUGE. Generally to the point of being unplayable...

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=262941

That's an earlier thread I participated in which contributed to a similar discussion. Reread it, and the places it links to!