Beholders

[sambouchah]

So I have some questions about my favorite monster in all D&D history.

Firstly, Could any beholderkin take the Beholder Mage PrC?
What is the lowest LA for a Beholderkin? I assume LA for a Beholder is up around +8 maybe, +12? I'd prefer something around +3 or lower if possible. Or are Beholders capable of being played at all?
Where are the Psionic Beholders found?
Is there a way to become a fullblooded beholder without having that be your starting race? I assume Polymorph could accomplish something like it but I mean working eye rays, flight speed, bite, antimagic center eye, applicant for beholder mage. Unless those effects are created by polymorph as well.

Thanks in advance, Sam

[Drackstin]

after checking out the book "lords of madness" to book that's all beholders and abberitions. no beholder or beholderkin can be played. they have a LA - meaning not playable by PCs, also the per requ for beholder mage is true beholder, so kin cant take this class.

[AWiz_Abroad]

oh boy.

I'm going to STRONGLY encourage you not to try to enter Beholdermage. It is broken with a capital "B".

That being said, here's what you'd need to do. I never played this PC, I merely wanted to build the most broken dude I could preepic. I was able to do it with standard WBL at level 3. I stuck in wizard for the "found a peculiar ritual in a banned book vibe", but technically it could be any class.

EDIT. First step is an enlarge person spell. Cast it yourself or hire it done.

Then You'll need to hire two Polymorph any Objects to get permanent Beholder-ness.

You'll need Assume Supernatural Ability from Savage Species. All the eyerays are listed under a single entry, so you'll need it once for that, and once for the antimagic eye (so you can put it out).

At that point, you are a beholder, you have all the capabilities of said beholder. PAO gives you EX, and the feats give you the Su abilities.

Man, do I feel dirty. . . .

[Drackstin]

i don't know if that would work,since you would need to turn into a 4 HD beholder, and i don't believe there are any that low, and if it is, it has to be a true beholder to take the class

[sambouchah]

oh boy.

I'm going to STRONGLY encourage you not to try to enter Beholdermage. It is broken with a capital "B".

That being said, here's what you'd need to do. I never played this PC, I merely wanted to build the most broken dude I could preepic. I was able to do it with standard WBL at level 3. I stuck in wizard for the "found a peculiar ritual in a banned book vibe", but technically it could be any class.

EDIT. First step is an enlarge person spell. Cast it yourself or hire it done.

Then You'll need to hire two Polymorph any Objects to get permanent Beholder-ness.

You'll need Assume Supernatural Ability from Savage Species. All the eyerays are listed under a single entry, so you'll need it once for that, and once for the antimagic eye (so you can put it out).

At that point, you are a beholder, you have all the capabilities of said beholder. PAO gives you EX, and the feats give you the Su abilities.

Man, do I feel dirty. . . .

Oh dear, Oh dear haha. This is perfect for me:smallbiggrin: I'd love to try it out sometime. Maybe start as a Phrenic creature for better mental capabilities.

[AWiz_Abroad]

i don't know if that would work,since you would need to turn into a 4 HD beholder, and i don't believe there are any that low, and if it is, it has to be a true beholder to take the class

What is a TRUE beholder?

Once again, this is dirty dirty but we define creatures by their capabilities. . . if you are indistinguishable from a beholder that was born that way, why can't you take the class?

As far as the HD, I'll need to look at PAO (away from books). You may have a point.

Once again. OP. I STRONGLY suggest you clear this class with the DM. Otherwise, this class will annhilate his campaign. However, if you're playing with crazy optimizers, this will keep up with the powercurve (particurally combined with some beguiler, ultimate mage, and Initiate of the sevenfold veil. I think I also tossed in a level of dweomerkeeper just to get the supernatural spell, and cast PAO once more on myself to prevent from being dispelled (the true weakness of this entire build)

[Gazzien]

I believe it was found you could do it at level 1 with a wizard by selling/ pawning your Spellbook (50gp a page, with one page per cantrip, and 50+ cantrips [you know them ALL, RAW] adds up fast).

EDIT: By "do it", I meant "afford the Enlarge/ Double PaO's"

[Drackstin]

What is a TRUE beholder?

Once again, this is dirty dirty but we define creatures by their capabilities. . . if you are indistinguishable from a beholder that was born that way, why can't you take the class?

As far as the HD, I'll need to look at PAO (away from books). You may have a point.

Once again. OP. I STRONGLY suggest you clear this class with the DM. Otherwise, this class will annhilate his campaign. However, if you're playing with crazy optimizers, this will keep up with the powercurve (particurally combined with some beguiler, ultimate mage, and Initiate of the sevenfold veil. I think I also tossed in a level of dweomerkeeper just to get the supernatural spell, and cast PAO once more on myself to prevent from being dispelled (the true weakness of this entire build)

all the book says is that, must be true beholder (beholderkin can not become beholder mages)

in the MM1 there are 2 entrys under beholder, one is the beholder, that is a 11 HD aberration, the other is the gauth, this is a 6HD aberration, but it says its known as a lesser beholder, not sure if that would make it not count

[ZamielVanWeber]

True Beholder is the 11HD one. Once hit by PaO you qualify fine. Remember, Beholder mage is balanced against the fact that a beholder loses all of its eye rays and its anti magic as it levels. PaO does not give you that so...

[CIDE]

There's a feat in Bastards and Bloodlines (third party book) that allows you to qualify for classes that require specific races. I believe it's called "Old Blood". The requirement for putting out the eye is purely semantics at that point since the only reason you need to remove it is to avoid interfering with your spellcasting. If you have nothing to interfere then you don't need to get rid of it.

All depends on the DM of course.

[otakumick]

The ruined antimagic eye is also used by the beholder mage as an arcane focus to replace all the material components... so without having a ruined antimagic eye to use as a focus the beholder can't cast

[Karnith]

The ruined antimagic eye is also used by the beholder mage as an arcane focus to replace all the material components... so without having a ruined antimagic eye to use as a focus the beholder can't cast
That's why you take Assume Supernatural Ability (from Savage Species) at 12th level to get the antimagic eye when you PoA into a beholder, so that you can put it out and qualify for Beholder Mage.

[otakumick]

Agreed Karnith, I was responding to CIDE's assertion that the only reason you had to put out the antimagic eye was so that it would not interfere with casting.

[GreenSerpent]

If I was to play a Beholder I'd use Oslecamo's monster class. Please note that you do not qualify for Beholder Mage until level 13 of the class.

http://www.ruleofcool.com/smf/index.php?topic=637.30

Might be worth having a look at if homebrew territory is okay.

[sambouchah]

The ruined antimagic eye is also used by the beholder mage as an arcane focus to replace all the material components... so without having a ruined antimagic eye to use as a focus the beholder can't cast

Old Blood and a graft? The cost my be an oblong head for a couple days but would it work?

[Drackstin]

with the prerequisite still being a true beholder i don't think those would work, your best option would be to polymorph into the 11HD beholder

[ZamielVanWeber]

True Beholder for this PrC refers to the 11HD Beholder, as opposed to the pile of beholderkin and the beholder-like creatures that exist.

[sambouchah]

True Beholder for this PrC refers to the 11HD Beholder, as opposed to the pile of beholderkin and the beholder-like creatures that exist.

On a different note would Old Blood(Illithid) and the Illithid(extracrtion) allow for a character to take Illithid Savant(assuming they meet the other Prereqs)?

[CIDE]

The ruined antimagic eye is also used by the beholder mage as an arcane focus to replace all the material components... so without having a ruined antimagic eye to use as a focus the beholder can't cast

My bad. But that doesn't mean they can't use conventional spell components. Nothing forbids it.


Old Blood and a graft? The cost my be an oblong head for a couple days but would it work?

What graft?


with the prerequisite still being a true beholder i don't think those would work, your best option would be to polymorph into the 11HD beholder

Pretty sure the feat takes care of that though.


Old Blood (General)
Though you seem to be a normal member of your parents race in truth you have older blood running through your veins.
Benefit: Choose one race other than your own. For purposes of prestige classes, spells, feats prerequisites, magic items, and so on, you count as a member of that race.
Special: You can take this feat only at 1st level


On a different note would Old Blood(Illithid) and the Illithid(extracrtion) allow for a character to take Illithid Savant(assuming they meet the other Prereqs)?

Looking at the feat above and the Illithid Savant's prereqs...


Requirements
To qualify to become an illithid savant, a character must fulfill all the following criteria.
Race: Mind flayer.
Skills: Knowledge (arcana) 10 ranks.
Special: Must have consumed the brain of a creature of CR 9 or greater.

So the Race is taken care of. Technically the extract ability isn't even a requirement. So get the skill ranks and consume the brain and assuming the DM doesn't have a cow go for it.

P.S. The DM SHOULD have a cow.

[sambouchah]

What graft?


Homebrew graft in an antimagic eye?