Tome of Battle questions

[Crinias]

A while back somebody started a thread discussing White Raven Tactics and madness. It made me realize that there were some points of discussion regarding ToB that I wasn't entirely clear about. One of mattie_p's posts (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=13987133&postcount=2006) in particular made me feel a bit confused about the whole business.

Now, since I didn't want to ask a lot of questions in the Q&A thread, I decided to start an entire thread. Most have been asked before, but honestly I just want someone to decisively tell me which are the right answers, for future reference.

1.If you have levels in two different martial adept classes (from Tome of Battle), such as swordsage and warblade for example, can you use maneuvers that you have for one class to meet the prereqs for a maneuver in your other class?

2. Can you know the same maneuvers (from Tome of Battle) more than once? Can you ready the same maneuver more than once at a time?

3. Can a Swordsage or a Warblade ready more than one "copy" of the same maneuver so that he can use the maneuver more than once per encounter without having to spend actions to regain his maneuver(s)?

4. Can a multiclassed martial adept (eg. Swordsage/Warblade) choose/and or ready the same maneuver for each of it's classes (provided you have access to the same maneuver)? And if you gain a maneuver in one class, can you use it as a prerequisite in gaining a maneuver in the other class?

5. Do prestige classes that grant Manuevers increase your initiator level for all the classes of a multiclassed martial adept's (eg. Swordsage/Warblade)?

Many thanks in advance.

[Dhavaer]

1. No.
2. Only through having multiple classes at once and taking the same manoeuvre in each.
3. No.
4. Yes to the first, no to the second.
5. Yes.

[Keld Denar]

1) Yes. A maneuver is either known, or not known. Any maneuver known can qualify other maneuvers, even from other classes.

2) No and no. Maneuvers exist in a binary state. Known or not known. Readied or not readied. If you know it, you can't relearn it (unless you at some point swap it out for another maneuver).

3) No. Again, maneuvers are either ready or not ready. Unlike a wizard who can prep 3 copies of Magic Missile, a Warblade can never ready 3 "copies" of Sapphire Nightmare Blade.

4) No. See 1 and 2 above.

5) Yes. This is covered in one of the paragraphs at the start of the PrC chapter prior to the start of the PrC list. It is sometimes debated whether or not PrCs that don't advance maneuvers give 1:1 IL advancement, such as Bloodstorm Blade or 100% of the rest of the PrCs no printed in ToB, but the general consensus is usually no.

[mattie_p]

*Cracks Knuckles* ok, let's do this.

I believe that Dhavaer hit the nail on the head with regards to RAW. The main reason Dhavaer differs from Keld Denar comes from the difference between the PHB/SRD rules on multiclassing (and clarified in the FAQ in a number of ways) and a single Customer Service answer (which may or may not carry weight at your table).


Class Features
A multiclass (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/multiclass.htm) character gets all the class features of all his or her classes but must also suffer the consequences of the special restrictions of all his or her classes.

It then lists certain examples where the class features stack, excluding the rest. Compare that with this quote from Customer Service (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ask/20060830a) (note - not even in the FAQ):

Q: Can you know the same maneuvers (from Tome of Battle) more than once? Can you ready the same maneuver more than once at a time?

A: Actually no, you cannot learn the same maneuvers more than once, nor can you ready the same maneuver more than once at a time.

However, another (or possibly the same) representative said this (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ask/20060920a):


Q: If you are a multiclass martial adept (from Tome of Battle), a swordsage/warblade for example, do you have to keep your maneuvers known and maneuvers readied separate for each class?

A: If a character has multiple martial adept base classes, the maneuvers known and readied from each class are kept separate. Knowing a maneuver for one class does not mean you can ready it for the other, or vice versa.

Look, the same source says that you keep them separate, but at the same time says you cannot learn them more than once. When I find a book, newspaper, or website that says two opposing things at the same time and says they are both true, I tend to disregard that particular source.

(Technically, if you go by the rule that the later published source is accurate and supercedes previously published rules, the second Q/A takes precedence over the first, by about 3 weeks).