Cleric change, need feedback (PF)

[anacalgion]

In pathfinder, each of the core deities has five domains (don't know about out of core). What happens to the cleric if you turn them into a spontaneous caster who knows all of the spells on their list, then shrink their list to ONLY their deity's domain spells? In other words, they have five spells of each level (1-9), and they know all of them. I'm aware that this is a serious nerf, but I'm curious as to what the Playground thinks it would do to their tier and usefulness. Thoughts? Would you play this cleric?

[Theprettiestorc]

I would be interested in seeing that build, for sure. And it would be pretty damn useful in battle, since you can now be the Divine Tank.

[Twilightwyrm]

I would imagine they would go to T2, maybe T3. The diminished spell selection would hurt, but I imagine many optimizers would simply play a cleric of a cause, and handpick the domains that give them maximum access to Summon Monster Spells, using those monsters to cast spells for them (I think that sort of shenanigans still a thing in Pf, right?). You'd basically have a potentially less effective Summoner with more choice regarding their spell list.

[anacalgion]

My bad, forgot to clarify. No clerics of causes. I always felt that was kinda silly anyways. I understand this isn't anywhere nearly as strong as most of the other casters, but I've been thinking about different ways to drag the T1 or 2 classes down a bit without loosing too much of the feel or flavor, and this just came to me.

[CigarPete]

That sounds like the Divine Crusader from Complete Divine, except they do it in 10 levels, only get 1 domain and have a few extras thrown in.

[Twilightwyrm]

My bad, forgot to clarify. No clerics of causes. I always felt that was kinda silly anyways. I understand this isn't anywhere nearly as strong as most of the other casters, but I've been thinking about different ways to drag the T1 or 2 classes down a bit without loosing too much of the feel or flavor, and this just came to me.

This makes things a bit more restrictive, but doesn't fundamentally alter the way optimizers go about building their clerics. Instead of custom making a cleric of a cause, they will simply pick the gods with the most summon monster/utility domain spells available, swapping out sub-domains as necessary. The secondary effect, however, would also be that the clerics of some gods would, theoretically be much more powerful and versatile than those of others, to the point of potentially being a tier or more apart from one another (in turn potentially causing great silliness in the campaign world, such as with gods fighting over the "good" (so to speak) domains). The clerics of deities that, for instance, have both Good and Law on their domain list will be potentially more powerful than one with, say, healing and protection, or even war and strength. The issues (and it is an issue) is the use of summoned monsters to supplement the spell list, not the amount of customization available to clerics of a cause verses those of a deity.

Note: Also, expect lots and lots of Clerics with the "Separatist" Archetype among people seeking to employ this tactic.

[Keneth]

Why would you do that when Oracles are already spontaneous-casting Clerics? :smallconfused:

[facelessminion]

It's not only a nerf to the point of ridiculousness, it treads on Oracle's toes, and can potentially still far outstrip the Oracle depending on the gods.

[stack]

Its an idea I had awhile back too. Never got to try it out.

[HalfQuart]

I play in a 3.5 game where the DM has severely restricted cleric spell selection to only ones that makes sense for their domains... although the spell lists also include some related arcane spells as well. The nerf is severe enough that no one is currently playing a cleric (which has resulted in it's own challenges), but apparently in the past long before my time players have made fine use of the spell lists. (The only player I saw try a cleric dropped out after his first session; I have no idea if it was related to that, though.)

I like having options, so the restrictions don't really appeal to me, even though it does add some flavor of keeping some consistency between clerics of the same deity.

[Andreaz]

My bad, forgot to clarify. No clerics of causes. I always felt that was kinda silly anyways.Going on a tangent here, but why is it silly? You are already empowered by the universe itself after all.
And what if you revere more than one god? Why would all gods ever demand exclusivity? Why are gods even necessary, when they are distant entities that only really matter because you have to pick someone?

More Religion, Less Gods!




You may resume your normal schedule.
(I've been itching to make a thread about this for a while now. I'll see what I can do)