Should late entry prc's be more powerful?

[RedDragons]

Should PRC's that require level 10 or higher to get into , be more powerful then those that are only level 6 entry?

[ArcturusV]

Ideally? Perhaps. But I'd be wary of the fact that certain level 6 PrCs are ungodly powerful. And some are horribly weak to the point where they don't function in their intended role at all, or are so limited in scope there's no reason to take it. Yakuza would be an example of that, other than "Yakuza Knowledge" it's basically just a worse version of Rogue Progression. And even the Yakuza Knowledge isn't something that couldn't be done with Knowledge: Local.

So it's not a problem of entry requirements, it's more a problem of the power level of PrCs being all over the place. Just as much as the power level of base classes are.

[Coidzor]

In terms of the abilities they offer on their first level and in terms of the existing general paradigm, yes, in general, as the abilities are expected to be appropriate to an 11th level character as opposed to a 6th level character.

Ideally the 11th level a character takes should give abilities appropriate to an 11th level character regardless of whether it's a prestige class that can be entered after 5th level or after 10th or isn't a prestige class at all and is a base class.

[Gotterdammerung]

Yes they should be, and typically, they are stronger.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil is a 9 entry and is extremely powerful. Contemplative out of Cloistered Cleric is a 10 entry and all you lose is some late game skill points. Seeker of the Song is meant for Bard 10 and is solid as long as you have musics left. It loses ALL function when you are out. It is a mixed bag, but they do tend toward strong IF you know what you ate doing.

[Gotterdammerung]

Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil is a 9 entry and is extremely powerful. Contemplative out of Cloistered Cleric is a 10 entry and all you lose is some late game skill points. Seeker of the Song is meant for Bard 10 and is solid as long as you have musics left. It loses ALL function when you are out. It is a mixed bag, but they do tend toward strong IF you know what you ate doing.

I said typically, of course there will be a few exceptions. But consider how many of the earth shattering prestige classes are late entry prestige classes.

[JoshuaZ]

I'm not sure "should" is the right term to use here. It depends on level of optimization more than anything else. One issue is that for many classes once one has started to go into PrCs it makes sense to keep PrCing since one's class features for your starting class are behind or not great at higher levels.

The real problem shows up when one considers two inequalities: to be worth taking, PrCs need to be at least as strong as their intended base class entry. So a PrC you can enter at level 6 has to be at least as good as that. But, a PrC that is a higher level entry then needs to be even better. These two mentalities combine to make the high level PrCs outright better than their base classes. If you look at the PrC Tier list (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5198.0), most PrCs that require late entry or are only easy to enter late are +1 or +2.

So as a game design idea both of these two ideas sound reasonable, but when one puts them together, they strongly encourage PrCing.

[Alienist]

No, absolutely not. Otherwise you are punished for not switching.

[Fouredged Sword]

Ideally yes, but only in that a 10th level character should be getting more from any class he is taking than a 6th level character.

The first level of a 10th level entry PRC should be equivalent to the 10th level of a base class + the feat and skill tax required to enter, or the 4th level of a 6th level entry PRC.

You should change the style of your character by entering PRC's, but not the general power level.

This is in an ideal world though, so in reality not so much.

[Killer Angel]

IMO, PrCs shouldn't give you more power at all... they should only give you different power. So, switching to a PrC, would only be a matter of style of the build, in terms of exclusive class features.

Sorta like the Variant Classes: you lose something, you gain something (not that the VC are balanced between themselves, but I think you get the point)

[ArcturusV]

Which I do like the sound of myself. But that is, apparently a very hard target to hit, from what I see of most PrCs.

[Coidzor]

Which I do like the sound of myself. But that is, apparently a very hard target to hit, from what I see of most PrCs.

Part of that is due to the problems with the construction of the base classes themselves, granted.

[ZamielVanWeber]

The blandness of the base classes, especially sorcerer and wizard, make going into a PrC mandatory. It looked like there was a push early on for late entry ones to be more special, but they dropped that ultimately.